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Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby negi » 11 Jun 2014 13:34

Concerning VK Singhs case, its an ego issue.

^^ Ego issue ? Charges against Lt. Gen. Suhag are serious in fact what gives away his mask is the simple fact that a Havildar was court martialed in a armed robbery case where a unit of 15 men broke into certain Mr. Gogoi's house.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1121006/j ... 5gVv_mSyu0

"Authorities of 3 Corps were in a spot regarding the incident. Former army chief Gen. V.K. Singh had sent a show cause notice to Lt Gen. Dalbir Singh, GOC of 3 Corps, regarding the incident.
"

Can some bright bulb tell me as to how is this an ego issue ? For time being forget about V K Singh's show cause notice , why did Lt Gen. Suhag not round up everyone involved instead of making a scapegoat out of one Havildar ? Is this the so called OLQ they look for in SSB ?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 13:45

Ego issue insofar as raising of this brouhaha at this point. Dirty trick by some babus in MoD no doubt.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Baikul » 11 Jun 2014 15:39

Am I one of the few here who would question the retired general's actions? He has commented on as serving IA officer, a COAS designate, and that in words I find regrettable:

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/politics/v-k-singh-now-minister-slams-next-army-chief/

A day after the Government, in which he is a Minister, termed his last actions as Army Chief against Lt Gen Dalbir Singh as “illegal”, “extraneous” and “premeditated,” Minister of State and former Army chief V K Singh hit back by attacking the officer who is now the Army chief designate, accusing him of trying to protect a unit that “kills innocents,” and “does dacoity.”


I don't care what their earlier issues were, I don't care whether Suhag is Himmler and Idi Amin incarnate, no minister has any business going public about a serving IA officer in this way.

Minister VK Singh is showing a worrying lack of gravitas, he is washing his dirty linen in public, when what he could have issued a simple, dignified statement and moved on. Or taken it up as vehemently as he wanted in private.

I do not want Gen (Retd) VK Singh to become a loose cannon, but I fear that that is exactly what he may become. He just needs to get his head down and work his mandate.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nelson » 11 Jun 2014 15:43

Yes, i second that he should forget the past spats and get on with the jobs at hand.

However, from his point of view, how should one reconcile with subversion of two key cdrs under him, while he was COAS. And that too when both did what they did to become COAS in their turn?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 15:52

When did VK say anything against Suhag? He said head of organisation must act, and not remain a mute protector of the guilty in such a case of murder and dacoity- In saying that, he was referring to HIMSELF, as head of org (SUHAG was NEVER head of org back then), and defending his actions in initiating action against all, including and up to Suhag, who failed to exercise proper control over his officers and jawans. He never accused Suhag of committing the dacoity, now, or even then. His tweet is being deliberately misinterpreted by Congis and media.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jun 2014 15:55

@Baikul - agree with your argument completely.

VKS needs to pay more attention to how his tweeter handle is used. My guess is that someone from the family is doing this - and I would want them to not compromise his position and his party's position in the parliament. Now that he is also a politician, he needs to find more nuanced ways to handle his affairs.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jun 2014 16:02

ASPuar wrote:When did VK say anything against Suhag? He said head of organisation must act, and not remain a mute protector of the guilty in such a case of murder and dacoity- In saying that, he was referring to HIMSELF, as head of org (SUHAG was NEVER head of org back then), and defending his actions in initiating action against all, including and up to Suhag, who failed to exercise proper control over his officers and jawans. He never accused Suhag of committing the dacoity, now, or even then. His tweet is being deliberately misinterpreted by Congis and media.


Sorry, but I don't buy your line of argument.

His tweet is pretty straightforward - he has defended his action (which has been termed as illegal in the affidavit) by explaining why he thinks his action is correct. Here is the tweet:

If unit kills innocents,does dacoity and then head of organization tries to protect them, should he not be blamed?Criminals should go free!!


That is a direct accusation against COAS designate Lt. General Suhag. And which should not have been made. Period. There are better ways to handle this situation. Especially when he is part of the government and has access to the highest office in country.

The GOI is in a tight position - if Suhag is correct, VKS is wrong while if it defends VKS, Suhag's position is compromised.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rkhanna » 11 Jun 2014 16:06

I don't care what their earlier issues were, I don't care whether Suhag is Himmler and Idi Amin incarnate, no minister has any business going public about a serving IA officer in this way.


Why? As a civilian and a tax paying citizen he is within his right to question the Leader of his Army. As an elected member of Parliament he has a responsibility to do so if he thinks something is not above water.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 16:07

On the contrary, I am sorry, but no government should be permitting such accusations to be made by itself against one of its ministers. If anyone has buggered things up, its the Ministry of Defence, which should never have been filing such an affidavit against one of the members of the Union Cabinet in this cavalier manner. At the least, gross apathy and incompetence. At worst, malafides.

I hardly think I need go into the bad blood between VKS and the establishment during congress years. Its not surprising that they filed an affidavit blaming him and supporting their own candidate. But NDA government should not at least be going along with it. He has every right to defend himself. He is a politician, and when under attack from the opposition over a problem of the oppositions own creation, he would be suicidal not to fight back.

Army chief is not a holy cow. If the designated man has done something wrong in protecting those officers and jawans let it be known. Furthermore, its quite clear that VKS when saying "Head of Organisation" is referring to chief, and his position at the time, as he would have been blamed if he had done nothing. A direct response to the idiotic allegations in the affidavit.

The affidavit of course cannot be allowed to stand. And if Suhag falls with it by court order, government should be quite happy to let him go. Jaitley should not have made the statements he did today in parliament, especially since its his ministry that screwed up.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 16:10

I don't care what their earlier issues were, I don't care whether Suhag is Himmler and Idi Amin incarnate, no minister has any business going public about a serving IA officer in this way.


And what about when the UPA government was leaking reports and letters, and going public about VK Singh, a serving officer, through "Coup" surrogate Shekhar Gupta and others? Convenient lapse in memory.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Baikul » 11 Jun 2014 16:15

rkhanna wrote:
I don't care what their earlier issues were, I don't care whether Suhag is Himmler and Idi Amin incarnate, no minister has any business going public about a serving IA officer in this way.


Why? As a civilian and a tax paying citizen he is within his right to question the Leader of his Army. As an elected member of Parliament he has a responsibility to do so if he thinks something is not above water.


Question how?

He is within his right, but it is his responsibility to choose the appropriate forum, the appropriate time and place and manner to ask his questions. Not to use loose words on twitter, in a manner that downright denigrates the officer. And in a manner that suggests that he does not have an axe to grind.

He has opened a door - today him. Tomorrow some sleazeball politico will question another senior general in an abrasive, insulting manner, and say "Oh General VK Singh, you know the senior fauji, he did it before me onlee, why not me now, hain ji"?

Bit by bit we denigrate this institution.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 16:27

Again, was Suhag head of the organisation? He was responding to the suggestion that he had acted illegally, as HEAD OF THE ORGANISATION, in initiating action against the accused and their superiors. This is a silly thing to be ranting about. VKS is perfectly within his rights to defend himself. This has not come about because VKS suddenly decided to abuse a designated Army Chief, but instead because he was abused by MOD before the Supreme Court, and also in parliament by his detractors. Lets put an end to this nonsense now. Where were all these protectors of Army Chief's when VK himself was being pilloried by all and sundry in the press?

An institution is not denigrated by mere words (if indeed there were any). It is denigrated by the wrong people being pushed into the wrong job.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Baikul » 11 Jun 2014 16:42

ASPuar wrote:
I don't care what their earlier issues were, I don't care whether Suhag is Himmler and Idi Amin incarnate, no minister has any business going public about a serving IA officer in this way.


And what about when the UPA government was leaking reports and letters, and going public about VK Singh, a serving officer, through "Coup" surrogate Shekhar Gupta and others? Convenient lapse in memory.


This is a forced equal equal. Just because that was wrong, does not make this alright.

And what does that have to do with this? The UPA government went after VK Singh, and proved itself contemptible.

VK Singh in turn goes after Suhag, outside the government he is part of and is ruling the country, and proves himself forlorn, foolish and, as I said before, something of a loose cannon.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Baikul » 11 Jun 2014 16:45

ASPuar wrote:Again, was Suhag head of the organisation? He was responding to the suggestion that he had acted illegally, as HEAD OF THE ORGANISATION, in initiating action against the accused and their superiors. This is a silly thing to be ranting about. ....


In my opinion, you are misreading VK Singh's tweet. By a factor of 180 degrees.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Jun 2014 17:03

rohitvats wrote:That is a direct accusation against COAS designate Lt. General Suhag. And which should not have been made. Period.


What about the direct accusation against the then COAS General V.K. Singh in the affidavit and the accusatory language used? Or is it all right to do so? The post of COAS was not so sacrosanct only when V.K. Singh was holding it? Only before and after him it becomes so.

People have right to ask if suhag failed to take action against those who did dacoity. Period.

People have right to ask if COAS designate Lt. General Suhag failed 3 times?

"The officer in question is Lt-Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag, who could not even pass the Staff College in spite of three attempts."
http://www.theweekendleader.com/Opinion ... e-gun.html

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nelson » 11 Jun 2014 17:12

Apart from the factor of competency to be COAS, there were certain key areas where the anointed successor(s) need to be measured for their worthiness. One thing was the loyalty to the organisation and the superior.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/as-l ... 98886.html

"I direct that my censure in form of 'Severe Displeasure' be conveyed to Colonel G Srikumar of 3 Corps Intelligence and Surveillance Unit (CISU) presently posted at the Headquarters 4 Rapid Division," Gen Singh wrote in the order issued to the officer.

In the same case, the former Army chief had issued a show cause notice to 3 Corps Commander Lt Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag and Brigadier Abhey Krishna of the same formation for "lapses" on their part and "abdicating responsibility".

In the show cause notice issued to Lt Gen Suhag, Gen Singh had said that "it was also learnt that Commanding Officer, 3 CISU during his absence from unit on leave was masquerading in Delhi and interacting with the media giving anti-organisation stories".

The Army had alleged that Srikumar was one of the three officers facing action for planting stories against the army while he was on leave from December 18 to January 8.

The Army had recently accused retired Lt Gen Tejinder Singh along with a few serving officers of planting stories in the media about tapping of phones of various senior Defence Ministry officials by its personnel during the age controversy involving Gen Singh.

The snooping issue had come to light on February 16 when an Army Intelligence team, tasked with carrying out debugging of Ministry phones, suspected tapping of phones, but this was denied by the army.

It said there was discrepancy in the telephone lines, which caused an alarm, but no such thing was found during the subsequent checks.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/as-l ... 98886.html

It appeared when this news report came out that some units of Eastern Command and 3 Corps had actively participated in ensuring that Gen V K Singh's tenure was not extended. The sole motive would be to preserve the line of succession, and thereby putting their loyalty to question.

Having succeeded in their attempts (well almost), the successor(s) are now upping the ante against the changed political establishment. Not a wise thing, i would say.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jun 2014 17:22

Dhananjay wrote:
rohitvats wrote:That is a direct accusation against COAS designate Lt. General Suhag. And which should not have been made. Period.


What about the direct accusation against the then COAS General V.K. Singh in the affidavit and the accusatory language used? Or is it all right to do so? The post of COAS was not so sacrosanct only when V.K. Singh was holding it? Only before and after him it becomes so.

People have right to ask if suhag failed to take action against those who did dacoity. Period.

People have right to ask if COAS designate Lt. General Suhag failed 3 times?

"The officer in question is Lt-Gen Dalbir Singh Suhag, who could not even pass the Staff College in spite of three attempts."
http://www.theweekendleader.com/Opinion ... e-gun.html


You're preaching to choir here...

Go back and read what I wrote before jumping to conclusion(s). I'm not defending the affidavit against VKS but raising objection to the tweet from VKS - which is unbecoming of his position, especially when he is part of the government. As a MoS, he is openly castigating doubts on COAS designate - which is not a welcome situation not withstanding the bad blood between him and Bikram Singh and Lt. General Suhag. The GOI has already affirmed their position on Lt. General Suhag - he will be the next army chief. Given this situation, it does not warrant such open charges against him by VKS.

He has access to highest authority in land and this could have been sorted out in manner which does not put the government in tight spot.

And coming to the Staff College requirement - one does staff college when an officer is generally of Major rank. Suhag has since risen to be an Army Commander - if he was an incompetent officer, the filtering would have happened much earlier and he should have gone back as Lt.Col. And mind you, Staff College has become a holy grail now - would not have been in times of VKS and Suhag. BTW, let me give you an interesting anecdote - a course mate of VKS was amongst the topper of Staff Course entrance examination which they both attempted. And the said officer was chosen to attend Staff College in a major western nation - not VKS. The said officer retired as Brigadier while VKS rose to rank of General.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 11 Jun 2014 17:24

Baikul wrote:
ASPuar wrote:Again, was Suhag head of the organisation? He was responding to the suggestion that he had acted illegally, as HEAD OF THE ORGANISATION, in initiating action against the accused and their superiors. This is a silly thing to be ranting about. ....


In my opinion, you are misreading VK Singh's tweet. By a factor of 180 degrees.


VKS charge is against Suhag who as Corps Commander of 3 Corps has the Intelligence Unit reporting directly to him. That is what he means by Suhag being head of organization.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Jun 2014 17:45

rohitvats wrote:Go back and read what I wrote before jumping to conclusion(s). I'm not defending the affidavit against VKS but raising objection to the tweet from VKS - which is unbecoming of his position, especially when he is part of the government.


No I read carefully only then posted. See matter is one and has to be seen holistically: "affidavit with poisonous language against the then General VK Singh by MoD and to explain his position VK Singh answers by opening the pol-patti of suhag". Why take half the part and condemn just VK Singh?

Suhag has since risen to be an Army Commander - if he was an incompetent officer, the filtering would have happened much earlier and he should have gone back as Lt.Col. And mind you, Staff College has become a holy grail now - would not have been in times of VKS and Suhag. BTW, let me give you an interesting anecdote - a course mate of VKS was amongst the topper of Staff Course entrance examination which they both attempted. And the said officer was chosen to attend Staff College in a major western nation - not VKS. The said officer retired as Brigadier while VKS rose to rank of General.


The guy kept trying 3 times - 3 times suhag tried and all the 3 times he failed. Like someone said couple of pages back that this isn't something special but something you're supposed to have anyway.

------------------------------------------------------------

Also we have now 3 knowledgeable people giving opposite views:

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6377&start=3840#p1642163
Joshi_Sa wrote: Lt. Gen. Suhag is extremely result oriented soldier...no fingers could be raised on the caliber of the man as he has regularly rendered his services in most shadiest & dirtiest of our operations in all the sectors specifically the Panda border regions...he has extensive knowledge of Spec Ops & the characteristics of the right operators to choose for these. His ways are not always right but then you need an ace up your sleeve to play a blind bet in this game of high odds. A perfect soldier with silent & lethal approach. Not the enemy you did want to ever make...

PS: Info from a close proffesional source.


rohitvats wrote:^^^Same information here - an infantry officer to core and a soldier's soldier. As per some ex-officers - who support VKS and also know him - wrong to attribute acts of commission and omission of the intelligence unit on the him as Corps Commander.


http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6377&start=3920#p1667808

Victor wrote:
Question to ask is: why was it so important for the congis to hurriedly push Suhag in at the last minute that couldn't wait for the new govt? That too while breaking convention? His appointment is best avoided if at all possible and Gen VKS should know enough about that. Very likely, there is a group in IA that was favored by congis for whatever reason and at the least they need to be identified and kept close watch on. Maybe paranoid but its extremely difficult to trust anything the congis did.


Akshay Kapoor wrote:
I have to say that Lt Gen Suhag is not widely respected by the rank and file. Neither was Bikram Singh. It is unfortunate that Suhag will become COAS. The army desperately needs a good COAS who can stand up to babus and stem the rot in the ethos that is coming in some (mercifully still very few) places. These things can be very corrosive. I say this with with a lot of responsibility.

Lt Gen Anil Chait would have been the best choice. And its been a very long time since an armoured corps officer has become a COAS anyway.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby merlin » 11 Jun 2014 18:14

rohitvats wrote:BTW, let me give you an interesting anecdote - a course mate of VKS was amongst the topper of Staff Course entrance examination which they both attempted. And the said officer was chosen to attend Staff College in a major western nation - not VKS. The said officer retired as Brigadier while VKS rose to rank of General.


There is so much politics in who gets to attend a staff college/course in a western nation and who doesn't its not funny.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby merlin » 11 Jun 2014 18:16

WTF is that AJ doing on what the ministry in his charge did?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 18:46

The only thing that I agree with RohitVats on this on is that VKS should appreciate fully the power that he now has, and not fight any battles through twitter, but rather through the cabinet.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 11 Jun 2014 20:35

Thing is , vks is not doing any favors to anybody via his response on Twitter. Basically puts people in his camp in a real tight spot as it reduces their options, that Twitter riposte was not a good idea, now it will be that much harder for Modi et al., to diffuse the situation.

Of course, it might very well be that every body wants him out.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby nandakumar » 11 Jun 2014 21:01

This is my take on current controversy over VK Singh and the new COAS Dilbagh Singh. The latter was identified as COAS material by the political/military cabal in the establishment, lets say five years ago. This happens in the defence services and indeed in the private corporate sector, where the prospective CEO is identified a few years in advance. In terms of this framework Gen VK Singh made it to be the ideal choice at the time he was chosen (mind you, he was a capable officer as indeed a few others as well). But it would have required him to retire a little earlier than he would have had his real date of birth was taken into calculation. Hence the pressure on him to declare the date of birth given at the time of NDA admission. Had he chosen not to play ball, he would have been passed over for promotion to Brigadier or Major General. With that would have evaporated what little chance he would have had at a shot at the top job of the Indian Army. So Bikram Singh, Dalbir Singh etc. was part of the carefully crafted military succession put in place by the establishment.
What happened was that Gen VK Singh chose to break the rules of the game. He thought that the Supreme Court would come to his rescue. But no such luck. It gave him a chance to withdraw his petition or face the ignomy of defeat. He chose the former. But by then he had laid an IED in the form ofa disciplinary enquiry against Dalbir Singh. He had thus laid the perfect framework for Lt Gen Dastane to go in appeal. Though Dastane's appeal against being passed over promotion to head the Eastern Command was rejected by the Armed Forces Tribunal it gave him permission to appeal to the Supreme Court. The issue now before the SC is whether Dastane being passed over to head the Eastern Command was administratively a correct decision. This is important because if the SC holds in favour of Dastane then no matter that Dilbagh Singh has been properly chosen by the UPA 2 Govt or that the Modi led new Govt isnt challenging it would make it impossible for Dilbagh Singh to take over as the Army Chief. That is because his promotion to the earlier position would be held as illegal. You cant have a Chief of the Army who hasnt held the command of one of the Regions.
The Manmohan Singh Govt was keen to rush the appointment of the new army chief was for one particular reason. Even if the new BJP Govt didnt want to to rock the boat there was a possibility that Dastane could move the SC for an interim relief seekng a stay of the appointment of the new army chief. The only way that the Congress Govt could forestall it it is by announcing that an appointment has already beenmade. Any stay on the appointment would demoralise the army defence preparedness etc. The SC would be hard pressed toignore it.
BJP is sitting pretty. It has gone on record that it doesnt want to politicise the army appointment. It has said that Dilbagh Singh's appointment is final. So now, if the SC rules against Dilbagh Singh's appointment the BJP can turn around andsay, 'what can we do. It is the decision of the SC.' If on the other hand SC rules in favour of Dilbagh Singh, they can always turn around and say, look we always Dilbagh Singh's appointment is not to be politicised and we are sticking by it.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby arminius » 11 Jun 2014 21:05

I feel, Lt. Gen. Suhag is in a rather, rightly or wrongly, unenvious positon. He would have a Minister gunning for his head ( and unceremonious exit) all along the tenure. I guess he should
simply resign and let government constitute a probe. Meanwhile they can put in whoever is next in the line.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 11 Jun 2014 21:08

Gen. Dilbagh Singh's credibility is on line for not taking action on the unit that indugled in gross abuse of AFSPA in North East which is VK Singh's area of responsiblity in the Cabinet.
He might have to take the honorable route eventually.


Its a new era of Caeser's wife and all that.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 21:51

VK Singh is a strange mix of competence, honesty, ambition, and naivete.
Obviously a very competent and driven man, or he would never have achieved so much in life. But he shouldnt get sidetracked by things.

Ramana is quite correct, it is for the Ministry of DONER to look after the north east, and the incident took place there. Watch out for the future, like all Rajputs, VKS never forgets a slight, and seems to believe in vendetta, if his past record is any guide.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby RoyG » 11 Jun 2014 22:25

Obviously the way the Suhag was rushed in and his past controversy doesn't bode well for him in the long run. IMO, MoD needs to be cleaned up. We will see more things like this as DRDO, procurement, etc is reorganized and cleaned up. People have made a lot of money with the current setup and are simply trying to save their money stream.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ASPuar » 11 Jun 2014 23:57

It wouldn't surprise me at all of Suhag comes a cropper halfway through his term.

There is just too much which is shady about his appointment.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby anjan » 12 Jun 2014 00:09

rohitvats wrote: And mind you, Staff College has become a holy grail now - would not have been in times of VKS and Suhag. BTW, let me give you an interesting anecdote - a course mate of VKS was amongst the topper of Staff Course entrance examination which they both attempted. And the said officer was chosen to attend Staff College in a major western nation - not VKS. The said officer retired as Brigadier while VKS rose to rank of General.
The Staff College has always been a big deal. Instructors are the cream of the Offr. Corps. That course is not easy by any yardstick. That however does not mean that they'll all retire generals. A whole lot of stuff goes into it. ACRs. Does my Brig Commander, Div Commander, Corps Commander like me and so on. I know instructors who've retired as Cols. So what? It doesn't make them any less competent.

Promotions/Postings in the Army are a horrible festering underbelly. The MS branch has a well organized mafia running it. It's a community based thing at the lowest levels. And completely opaque. Postings happen on Bhai-bandi basis more often than not. That is the sad truth. I know where people have messed openly with Higher Command lists. Your competitive exams are about the best measure of an officer in the Army in peacetime. The rest is muck. The number of decorated(in combat) Psc dagger types being shafted in this process is huge.

BTW I suspect along the line VKS must have played the system too. If anything this is just one lobby against another.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 12 Jun 2014 03:29

^^^

Message from the bosses (babus) is clear. How dare an armed forces chief who challenged us, and that too an earthy , simple soldier like VK Singh become a minister ? He is the senior most MOS (Indp). So what, he is bloody fauji, we will show him who is boss. I am willing to bet a case of black label that in the last 20 years no babu has dared to give any affidavit on any issue against a minister unless its on express instruction of PM. I doubt even that is happened. In this case they did. Why? Because he is a fauji and they are the bosses vis a vis the forces and they want that message heard. VK Singh is going to have a tough time...recent ex army chiefs don't like him because he rocked the boat, MoD hates him and polity couldn't care less. The govt has let VK Singh down big time but he should have had the wisdom to know that bureaucracy always wins. He should not have fought this battle. Its unwinnable. VKS should forge a strong equation with Sushma Swaraj. He has many supporters in the ranks but he needs friends in high places.

Before the cabinet was announced I wrote to one of the senior people in the new political dispensation and known to be close to NM (a person of impeccable integrity, achievement and wisdom) highlighting the key national security issues and suggesting a plan of action and solutions. One of my core suggestions was a babu mukt MOD. He responded saying that he completely agreed but all depends on the team NM chooses.
Last edited by Akshay Kapoor on 12 Jun 2014 04:01, edited 3 times in total.


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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2014 04:01

There are two things here. The UPA appointed Lt Gen Dilbagh Singh as next Army chief for whatever reasons. NDA wants to ratify that decision. That is not the question.

The question is accountability of a senior officer for his junior's actions.
Very clearly Lt Gen Dilbagh Singh has failed in this by having the junior most Havaldar court martialled while the leader of the unit that did the 'dacoity' is scot free. Where is accountability and chain of command? And the abuse of AFSPA to benefit a private contractor.

Adm Joshi has shown the path by taking responsibility for the series of accidents in the Navy and resigning.


This aspect will undermine Lt Gen Dilbagh Singh and its in his own interests and the instituional interests that he does not take charge.

---
Another thing is the MOD using language from UPA while they were driven out of power to defame Gen VK Singh.

For this the MOD has to apologise and make amends.
VK Singh won by the largest margin next to Modi in the elections.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kakkaji » 12 Jun 2014 04:45

And Jaitley actually lost the election.

The way Suhag appointment was made two days before the results were to be declared, stinks to high heaven.

The BJP would have been well within their rights to cancel that appointment.

Now Suhag, as the continuation of the line of succession planned by JJ Singh, will carry on the agenda of the people who deep-selected him, and possibly impede any reforms that the BJP Govt wants to implement. :( He will be a non-performer just like Bikram Singh has been.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2014 04:51

getting the COAS' designate's name wrong post after post does not raise the quality of this thread.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kakkaji » 12 Jun 2014 05:21

Rahul M wrote:getting the COAS' designate's name wrong post after post does not raise the quality of this thread.


Is it wrong to call him 'Suhag'? :-?

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 12 Jun 2014 05:36

it's Dalbir, not Dilbagh.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Kakkaji » 12 Jun 2014 05:51

Let us look critically at the performance so far of the 'line of succession' that Gen. JJ Singh came up with.

IMHO JJS himself, Deepak Kapoor, and Bikram Singh have been non-performers. The only performer was VK Singh, and they manipulated his ouster.

That is why I am doubtful about the performance of the next one in that 'line of succession'.

IMHO the new Govt should take a bold decision and bypass DS Suhag, Ashok Singh (VKS' relative), and Ravi Dastane, and select the next seniormost officer as the next COAS. Thus bury the 'line of succession', and its related squabbles, forever.

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Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

Postby Cosmo_R » 12 Jun 2014 05:57

ASPuar wrote:VK Singh is a strange mix of competence, honesty, ambition, and naivete.
Obviously a very competent and driven man, or he would never have achieved so much in life. But he shouldnt get sidetracked by things.

Ramana is quite correct, it is for the Ministry of DONER to look after the north east, and the incident took place there. Watch out for the future, like all Rajputs, VKS never forgets a slight, and seems to believe in vendetta, if his past record is any guide.


VKS is a MoS. If he cannot go beyond to the larger issue of NE and India, then he does not have what it takes to be a leader.

General Dalbir Singh Suhag Deserves our unquestioned salute as the next COAS.

This Twitter stuff hurts Modi, and does no good for VKS being part of the the team.

VKS is a fragmentation grenade. He appears to be wrapped up in himself at the expense of India. He's bad news .

Keep this guy in a silo else he'll be a problem.

BTW. I seriously think we ought not to allow SC involvement in military conduct. This whole idea of allowing military personnel to sue in civilian ourts over non promotion is ridiculous.


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