Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby prashantsharma » 21 Sep 2018 10:12

kancha wrote:Folks, shared some thoughts on the recent photograph that depicted own soldiers dragging the body of a dead terrorist. May have a look.

By the time this photograph was taken, the body would have already been checked for booby traps / concealed grenades. My reasons for believing this are

1. Dragging a booby-trapped body over rough uneven terrain is almost certainly going to dislodge the grenade, turn it on to its side, dislodge the lever or whatever and trigger the very explosion you are trying to avoid.

1. I am sure any SOP would also advise that people should not mill around the body before it has been checked, or while trying to detonate the hidden explosive, whereas in the picture atleast half a dozen army men are in the blast radius of an exploding grenade, along with one reporter.

Therefore my hypoothesis is that the body had already been checked and the picture was taken while in the process of dragging it away to a vehicle. It was out of sheer convenience that the body was being dragged. Anyone who has dragged a body, or a similar bulky object which doesn't have good gripping points, would know that it is far easier to drag it with a rope. And most importantly, why mess up your uniform or a stretcher to give these scum a smooth ride?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2018 09:53

Lt. Gen. Naravane appointed Eastern Army Commander
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 041344.ece

Lt. Gen. Naravane from the Sikh Light Infantry is currently heading the Army’s training command, ARTRAC. He will replace Lt. Gen. Abhay Krishna who has been appointed as the Central Army Commander. Lt. Gen. Naravane will be the senior-most Army Commander by December 2019 when current Army Chief Gen Bipin Rawat completes his tenure.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 27 Sep 2018 10:06

Lieutenant General Manoj Mukund Naravane

Image

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 29 Sep 2018 13:18

How do i attach images folks?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kakarat » 29 Sep 2018 19:04

ks_sachin wrote:How do i attach images folks?


You have to upload the image in some website
[img]Imageaddress[/img]

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby putnanja » 10 Oct 2018 11:22

Indian Army wants to change the way it fights enemies

The way India fights its enemies could change with Integrated Battle Groups (IBG) comprising critical elements such as artillery, mechanised infantry, armour, signals and air support likely to replace the current somewhat, antiquated structures, Corps and Brigades.

IBG is one of the key issues before army commanders who are meeting in New Delhi, a top defence ministry official aware of the matter said, asking not to be identified.

“The proposal is set to be cleared,” this person added.
...
..
IBG, however, will not completely replace the current structure of corps being the main pivots or field formations.

They will “be deployed according to the terrain and the task at hand,” the army official said.

The coming of IBG will also bring about changes in the command and control structure. Currently, a Lieutenant General commands a Corps and a Major General leads a Division. According to one of the proposals before the army commanders a Major General will head an Integrated Battle Group.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby sum » 10 Oct 2018 11:25

Cold start being put out into the open?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby wig » 14 Oct 2018 08:29

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/natio ... 68032.html

Army to constitute unified battle groups
excerpts
A decision to form integrated battle groups (IBGs), which will be validated in field exercises, has been taken at the ongoing commanders’ conference (October 9-15). An IBG — each with six battalions or more (about 6,000 men) will have a mix of infantry, armoured, artillery, signals and engineers — will be commanded by a Major General and placed directly under the Corps. This is a novel concept as so far the Army has a few independent brigades (some 3,000 men) headed by a Brigadier. The IBG is expected to be swifter in battle. At present, there are 8-10 Brigades in a Corps

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 14 Oct 2018 10:43

Three of things seem to be happening simultaneously,
1. IBG formalization (at least in public domain, I guess they were in existence in some form or shape since 2010)
2. Optimization/Rationalization
3. MSCs, contrary to media reports, the statement from CoAS was to confirm the raising of these corps, albeit at a slower pace to match the infrastructure coming up in these areas. Perhaps 2&3 are not fully independent as well

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 14 Oct 2018 12:22

ArjunPandit wrote:Three of things seem to be happening simultaneously,
1. IBG formalization (at least in public domain, I guess they were in existence in some form or shape since 2010)
2. Optimization/Rationalization
3. MSCs, contrary to media reports, the statement from CoAS was to confirm the raising of these corps, albeit at a slower pace to match the infrastructure coming up in these areas. Perhaps 2&3 are not fully independent as well

1. No
2. No - seems to be more jobs for Maj Gen. Heard a rumour that they want to do away with Col or Brig rank...There is an article by Gen Hasnain on this.
3. How is a MSC div diff to the present Mtn Div?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Varoon Shekhar » 14 Oct 2018 22:00

https://www.news18.com/news/india/major ... 08849.html

Feels overly harsh. Tragic loss of young lives, but a life sentence for a killing in a brutal zone, with ULFA and Bodo scum roving around? 5-10 max. And I hope "life" means 20-25 years, not more. And accounts for good behaviour while in prison.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Katare » 14 Oct 2018 22:46

Killing innocent youths, five of them, in cold blood after abducting them under a major general’s supervision can’ be excused on the basis of intenseness of the theatre.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ManuJ » 15 Oct 2018 00:03

Currently, Brigadiers command a brigade with 3,000+ men, and Major Generals command divisions, which have 10,000+ men.
IBGs will supposedly have 6,000 men. Somewhere between a brigade and a division.

If that's true, than a regular Major General commanding an IBG would be a demotion of sorts.
And a brigadier commanding an IBG would be quite a promotion.

In that context, getting rid of the brigadier rank and restructuring the Major General rank be somewhere between the current Brigadier and Major General rank makes sense.
I wonder though how IA will manage the transition from Colonel to Major General - that's quite a jump in responsibilities.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 15 Oct 2018 01:04

IBG's were supposedly build from an inf. div (RAPID ?) and an independent armd. bde. certainly not smaller than a div.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ManuJ » 15 Oct 2018 01:07

ManuJ wrote:I wonder though how IA will manage the transition from Colonel to Major General - that's quite a jump in responsibilities.

To answer my own question, looks like there will still be a Brigadier rank, but will become non-select:
Selected Colonels can spend three years in command, the next three as Colonel, staff and the next three or four years as Brigadiers (non-select) before becoming eligible for the enhanced number of vacancies for Major Generals (close to 400), says the proposal.

According to one suggestion, the Army can make the rank of Brigadier ‘non-select,’ that is all Colonels who have completed three years of their command tenure will become eligible to automatically be promoted to the rank of Brigadier. However, these Brigadiers will not hold any command but will only be posted as staff officers or in instructional roles in training academies. There will however be a selection board for Major Generals, who will command the proposed Integrated Battle Groups, directly controlled by a Corps.


https://bharatshakti.in/indian-army-proposal-to-restructure-ranks-raising-valid-debate/

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Khalsa » 15 Oct 2018 01:18

ManuJ wrote:Currently, Brigadiers command a brigade with 3,000+ men, and Major Generals command divisions, which have 10,000+ men.
IBGs will supposedly have 6,000 men. Somewhere between a brigade and a division.

If that's true, than a regular Major General commanding an IBG would be a demotion of sorts.
And a brigadier commanding an IBG would be quite a promotion.

In that context, getting rid of the brigadier rank and restructuring the Major General rank be somewhere between the current Brigadier and Major General rank makes sense.
I wonder though how IA will manage the transition from Colonel to Major General - that's quite a jump in responsibilities.


The next question is (or the next questions are)
1. Do we do away with a Brigade ?
2. Do we do away with a Division ?
3. Do we do away with a Brigadier Rank ?


Reading between the lines , this may happen (my personal Opinion).

1. A reversal of the policy of the past that only full colonels to command regiments. Let the Lt Col Command.
2. Possible Shelving of Brigadier Rank
3. Full Colonel is the Deputy Commander of the IBG
4. Major Generals Command IBG
5. Lt Gen remain at Corps Level and that of commands.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby nam » 15 Oct 2018 02:31

where did we get this 6k number for IBG? It is not enough mass for any worthwhile offensive. To make this number effective, we need to pile it with Khan style firepower. Which needless to say is not going to happen.

If we place 120k troops as part of IBG on Pak front, that gives 20 IBG. Are we going to have 20 pivot points of action?


And this enhanced number of Major General posts. Is there a operational reason? Do we have shortage of Major Generals? Sounds like a job lot.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ManuJ » 15 Oct 2018 02:54

All commentators have mentioned IBGs being made up of 4-6 battalions.
Since Indian formations can be quite large, that would translate to anywhere between 6k to 9k men.
I wouldn't be surprised if eventually these formations end up being regular division sized (10k - 12k).
The plan should be to incrementally increase the firepower available to the IBGs.

This article by Gokhale has more details on how this will affect # of posts etc.:
These measures would result in reduction of about 100 brigadiers but would add almost the same number to the total strength of Major Generals, the proposal suggests. This will enhance vertical mobility of officers since all officers in the rank of Colonels would get promoted to Brigadiers (non-select) and would draw higher pension accordingly. Moreover, relatively, larger number of officers would get promoted to the rank of Major Generals.


http://bharatshakti.in/is-the-indian-army-doing-away-with-brigadiers/

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Oct 2018 03:04

ManuJ wrote:
ManuJ wrote:I wonder though how IA will manage the transition from Colonel to Major General - that's quite a jump in responsibilities.

To answer my own question, looks like there will still be a Brigadier rank, but will become non-select:
Selected Colonels can spend three years in command, the next three as Colonel, staff and the next three or four years as Brigadiers (non-select) before becoming eligible for the enhanced number of vacancies for Major Generals (close to 400), says the proposal.

According to one suggestion, the Army can make the rank of Brigadier ‘non-select,’ that is all Colonels who have completed three years of their command tenure will become eligible to automatically be promoted to the rank of Brigadier. However, these Brigadiers will not hold any command but will only be posted as staff officers or in instructional roles in training academies. There will however be a selection board for Major Generals, who will command the proposed Integrated Battle Groups, directly controlled by a Corps.


https://bharatshakti.in/indian-army-proposal-to-restructure-ranks-raising-valid-debate/

We should be looking at reducing the age profile not increase no of Maj Gens. This seems more like a house keeping option rather than combat relatedd.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ManuJ » 15 Oct 2018 05:23

ks_sachin wrote:We should be looking at reducing the age profile not increase no of Maj Gens. This seems more like a house keeping option rather than combat relatedd.

The proposal does address the issue of reducing age profile. Bright officers should be able to become Major Generals by the age of 45.
Please read the proposal in its totality.

From the same link:
Each Commissioned Officer, it is proposed, will start his/her career in the rank of a Captain. The rank of Lieutenant should be held by officers during last one year of their pre-commission training for permanent commission stream or for six months in case of short-service commission. The suggestion also lays down the number of years the officers must spend in each rank to get the next promotion. So an officer can spend the first four years as Captain, the next four as Major and the next six to eight years in the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, the proposal says. There will of course be a promotion board to become a full Colonel. Selected Colonels can spend three years in command, the next three as Colonel, staff and the next three or four years as Brigadiers (non-select) before becoming eligible for the enhanced number of vacancies for Major Generals (close to 400), says the proposal.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Oct 2018 08:08

ManuJ wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:We should be looking at reducing the age profile not increase no of Maj Gens. This seems more like a house keeping option rather than combat relatedd.

The proposal does address the issue of reducing age profile. Bright officers should be able to become Major Generals by the age of 45.
Please read the proposal in its totality.

From the same link:
Each Commissioned Officer, it is proposed, will start his/her career in the rank of a Captain. The rank of Lieutenant should be held by officers during last one year of their pre-commission training for permanent commission stream or for six months in case of short-service commission. The suggestion also lays down the number of years the officers must spend in each rank to get the next promotion. So an officer can spend the first four years as Captain, the next four as Major and the next six to eight years in the rank of Lieutenant Colonel, the proposal says. There will of course be a promotion board to become a full Colonel. Selected Colonels can spend three years in command, the next three as Colonel, staff and the next three or four years as Brigadiers (non-select) before becoming eligible for the enhanced number of vacancies for Major Generals (close to 400), says the proposal.


Thanks.

I stand corrected.

I will dig up Gen Hasnains article.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby nam » 15 Oct 2018 12:17

What if GoI comes back and ask, why IBG cannot be lead by Brigadiers? Why do Brigadiers need to be taken off in to non-ops role before making then MG and then giving them IBG command?

For years I read of officers shortage. Now I read we have too many brigadiers & major generals.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Oct 2018 13:09

nam wrote:What if GoI comes back and ask, why IBG cannot be lead by Brigadiers? Why do Brigadiers need to be taken off in to non-ops role before making then MG and then giving them IBG command?

For years I read of officers shortage. Now I read we have too many brigadiers & major generals.

A Col will command 900 odd men and women. The IGB suddenly is a quantum leap. Plus combined arms....

So a question - If I had a bee in my bonnet about rank parity and the steep pyramid Brig rank onwards would I devise something like this ......

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby nam » 15 Oct 2018 16:17

ks_sachin wrote:A Col will command 900 odd men and women. The IGB suddenly is a quantum leap. Plus combined arms....

So a question - If I had a bee in my bonnet about rank parity and the steep pyramid Brig rank onwards would I devise something like this ......


Untimately Col or Brigadier or MG, it is the same guy. It is a case of years of service and training.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ks_sachin » 15 Oct 2018 16:41

nam wrote:
ks_sachin wrote:A Col will command 900 odd men and women. The IGB suddenly is a quantum leap. Plus combined arms....

So a question - If I had a bee in my bonnet about rank parity and the steep pyramid Brig rank onwards would I devise something like this ......


Untimately Col or Brigadier or MG, it is the same guy. It is a case of years of service and training.


You make it sound very easy....

Trust me it aint

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Bala Vignesh » 15 Oct 2018 17:24

nam wrote: It is a case of years of service and training.


That’s the crux of the matter innit? The same person gets the experience as he progresses in his rank over the service tenure and with the abolition of the Brig rank the experience is what will get hit, per my view.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ManuJ » 15 Oct 2018 23:32

Bala Vignesh wrote:That’s the crux of the matter innit? The same person gets the experience as he progresses in his rank over the service tenure and with the abolition of the Brig rank the experience is what will get hit, per my view.

The Brigadier rank is not getting abolished, only becoming non-select, which means automatic promotion of Colonels after 6+ years of service.

After a Colonel spends 3-4 years commanding a battalion, he would be put in a staff position at the IBG level.
Then he would be promoted to a Brigadier and would again spend 3-4 years in staff position at IBG level to gain experience.
In all probability, brigadiers would be made deputy commanders of IBGs for them to gain the experience and the confidence.
Once and if they are promoted to MG, they should be ready for the challenge.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ParGha » 16 Oct 2018 18:05

Part of the confusion is probably because people are using a mix of British/Commonwealth and German/American terminology for combined arms units. AFAIK, in India:

Company+ Level - Combat Team
Battalion+ Level - Combat Group
Brigade+ Level - Combat Command
Division+ Level - Integrated Battle Group

Note that the term "Battlegroup" is a battalion+ unit in Britain/Commonwealth. Also note that there is no equivalent of an "IBG" because at division level it is implicitly assumed to be a combined-arms formation.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Katare » 16 Oct 2018 21:09

When one says division, what do we mean? An infantry Div would have 10K man, an armored or Artillery Div would have less than a third of that number.

IBG - Would have Infantry (~6K) but it'll also have it's own armor, artillery, air defense, signal and helis too. That makes it pretty darn plump post for any major General. Much more significant than leading a vanilla Division

The new promotion policy appears to be pretty aggressive-

An officer will become
Lieutenant - at age 21 for 1 year
Captain - at age of 22 for 4 years
Major - at age of 26 for 4 years
Lt Colonel - at age of 30 for 7 years :eek:
Colonel - at age of 37 for 6 years
Brigadier - at age of 43 for 4 years
Maj General - at age of 47 for 5 (?) years
Lt General - at age of 52 for 3 years
Core Commander - at age of 55 for 3 (?) years
Army Chief - at Age of 58 for 4 years.

A 26 year old Major and 30 year old Lt Colonel seems very aggressively young!!!

On the other hand, they'll be doing the same job but hold a higher rank so this is Military's way of recovering some parity for it's upper middle level officers.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ParGha » 16 Oct 2018 22:14

Katare, an Infantry Division in India has 14-18K men (19th Division is the biggest, with even more men). Armoured divisions have 12-14K men, but they are still larger than Soviet Tank Divisions of 9-10K men. A “Division” with just 6K men is a Joker Division... in 1999 the Matayan Brigade alone had more men (albeit under a surge effort).

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 16 Oct 2018 22:22

The idea of Colonels commanding battalions was a result of Gen Sunderji reforms.
Seeing the Battalion commanders battle performance in1965 and 1971 when many Lt Cols were shell shocked and quite a few sacked Sunderji implement more experienced commanders for the battalion. This was from 1986 on-wards.
That is how Cols came to command 900 men formations. And then the leap was Brigadier to command 3 times that.

Current reforms seem to be similar to war time promotions for peace time operations.

A 30 year Lt Col is unheard of in peace time. thats a rank for a major.

Also could be driven by seeking parity with Civil Service warrant of precedence.
So how many IBGs in a Division ?
Or divisions also done away with?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby sudeepj » 16 Oct 2018 22:30

Katare wrote:Killing innocent youths, five of them, in cold blood after abducting them under a major general’s supervision can’ be excused on the basis of intenseness of the theatre.


Being in battle is not a joke.. At the end of the day, being in an armed service is a job of human butchery. You identify an enemy and you murder them with the greatest efficiency possible. All the sugar coating aside, that is what the job is.

To expect these guys to behave like civil police is an incorrect expectation. The reason they were deployed is because the insurgents beat up the civil police so harsher methods had to be adopted.

I hope these people are given a pardon a few years into the sentence.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 16 Oct 2018 22:42

I hope the verdict is held in abeyance pending appeal.

also the Special CM has decided to become a police court and forgets the underlying circumstances.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rahul M » 17 Oct 2018 01:59

ParGha wrote:Part of the confusion is probably because people are using a mix of British/Commonwealth and German/American terminology for combined arms units. AFAIK, in India:

Company+ Level - Combat Team
Battalion+ Level - Combat Group
Brigade+ Level - Combat Command
Division+ Level - Integrated Battle Group

Note that the term "Battlegroup" is a battalion+ unit in Britain/Commonwealth. Also note that there is no equivalent of an "IBG" because at division level it is implicitly assumed to be a combined-arms formation.

thank you for setting things right. I was too perplexed to see 6000 being mentioned as strength of IBG's ! formations that are supposed to smash across the border to capture territory would be no larger than an oversized brigade ?
as I mentioned before IBG's were supposed to be one infantry div. + 1 independent armoured brigade. The division most likely being a RAPID. if memory serves right IBG's were to be constituted from formations of the holding corps with X & XII being considered the most promising candidates.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Katare » 17 Oct 2018 05:39

sudeepj wrote:
Katare wrote:Killing innocent youths, five of them, in cold blood after abducting them under a major general’s supervision can’ be excused on the basis of intenseness of the theatre.


Being in battle is not a joke.. At the end of the day, being in an armed service is a job of human butchery. You identify an enemy and you murder them with the greatest efficiency possible. All the sugar coating aside, that is what the job is.

To expect these guys to behave like civil police is an incorrect expectation. The reason they were deployed is because the insurgents beat up the civil police so harsher methods had to be adopted.

I hope these people are given a pardon a few years into the sentence.


Will you say the same thing if they kill your little brother or your son? Killing a person or two in heat of battle is one thing but wholesale kidnapping and cold blooded killing is not acceptable . Let army and its institutions work or you would end up with a hord of mercenaries. There are real bad and evil people everywhere and some do sneakin into armed forces too.

Also what kind of argument is “Battle is not a joke” who said it is? Being soilder is about “human butchery”? Are you for real? You want soilders to murder enemies? Not in India sir.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 17 Oct 2018 08:07

sudeepj wrote:
Katare wrote:Killing innocent youths, five of them, in cold blood after abducting them under a major general’s supervision can’ be excused on the basis of intenseness of the theatre.


Being in battle is not a joke.. At the end of the day, being in an armed service is a job of human butchery. You identify an enemy and you murder them with the greatest efficiency possible. All the sugar coating aside, that is what the job is.

To expect these guys to behave like civil police is an incorrect expectation. The reason they were deployed is because the insurgents beat up the civil police so harsher methods had to be adopted.

I hope these people are given a pardon a few years into the sentence.

I, myself am not associated with any military wing of India so I have always abstained from giving my thoughts in this thread. but I am compelled to express my two naya paisa on this matter since I have close ones, relatives and friends who serve. One thing I have always noticed which separates them from us civilians is the honour and discipline.
Being a soldier is much more than what you have claimed in the bold part of your comment. Soldiers are not murderers, they are protectors. Saying this kind of things not only disrespect the institution that our armed services are, it also belittles each and every soldier who stand guard facing bullets to save us.
There is no honour in killing unarmed civilians and certainly it is lack of discipline since they did not had order to abduct and kill innocents. They should be made a very harsh example out of because what they did tarnished the image of IA.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 17 Oct 2018 15:09

sudeepj wrote:You identify an enemy and you murder them with the greatest efficiency possible. All the sugar coating aside, that is what the job is.


Very unfortunate (and i hope, unintended) usage of the word 'Murder'. Murder is defined as the unlawful killing of another human without justification.

The Indian armed forces, driven by principles and morals, manned by trained & highly disciplined professionals, are the protectors of the country and Indians and our way of life itself.

Our selection and training institutions do a good job of eliminating the undesirables very early on. The ones who make it through are honed to be efficient at eliminating (capturing, killing, destroying) the enemy combatants and infrastructure, and they do so but only after the identification of a person/group/country as the enemy has been done by the state, the scope of action has been discussed/finalised and the permission to act accordingly has been duly issued by the executive.

For any deviations from the codified regulations and the laws of the land,they are held answerable by their own internal system and their procedure of trial and justice is, IMVHO, generally more efficient (and less aribitary) than our civilian version.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Picklu » 17 Oct 2018 19:05

souravB wrote:
sudeepj wrote:
Being in battle is not a joke.. At the end of the day, being in an armed service is a job of human butchery. You identify an enemy and you murder them with the greatest efficiency possible. All the sugar coating aside, that is what the job is.

To expect these guys to behave like civil police is an incorrect expectation. The reason they were deployed is because the insurgents beat up the civil police so harsher methods had to be adopted.

I hope these people are given a pardon a few years into the sentence.

I, myself am not associated with any military wing of India so I have always abstained from giving my thoughts in this thread. but I am compelled to express my two naya paisa on this matter since I have close ones, relatives and friends who serve. One thing I have always noticed which separates them from us civilians is the honour and discipline.
Being a soldier is much more than what you have claimed in the bold part of your comment. Soldiers are not murderers, they are protectors. Saying this kind of things not only disrespect the institution that our armed services are, it also belittles each and every soldier who stand guard facing bullets to save us.
There is no honour in killing unarmed civilians and certainly it is lack of discipline since they did not had order to abduct and kill innocents. They should be made a very harsh example out of because what they did tarnished the image of IA.


Agree, the harshest punishment should be mated out. There is absolutely no excuse for the heinous crime.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 18 Oct 2018 06:36

The Indian Army is a professional Army. To call their task "human butchery" belittles their service and displays one's ignorance. Same with using the term "murder". The Indian Army does not commit murder. The Indian Army kills. There is a big difference between the two. I would suggest folks learn the difference.

OTOH, It is the Pakistan Army that commits murder and has no regard for their own laws. They are the law! :lol:

Please read the below to see what the Indian Army actually does in Kashmir. Very easy to sit behind a desk and shoot off terms like "human butchery" and "murder". From Major Gaurav Arya (Retd), who penned an open letter to Burhan Wani (after he died).

--------------------------

Dear Departed,

Ever since you were terminated in a forces-led operation in the Valley, 23 people have died. I don’t know why they died. The majority were possibly overcome with grief and fury and wanted to avenge your death. That did not happen, for obvious reasons. A policeman was thrown along with his vehicle into a river and he drowned. I grieve with your family and with the families of all those who lost their lives. Despicable though you may have been, I cannot find it in my heart to blame your family.

You could have been an engineer, a doctor, an archeologist or a software programmer but your fate drew you to the seductive world of social media, with its instant celebrity hood and all encompassing fame. You posted pictures on the internet with your “brothers”, all you fine young Rambos holding assault rifles and radio sets. It was right out of Hollywood. Your rifle’s fire selector switch was set to “safe” and your weapon rested on your shoulder. I know it’s too late to advise you on such matters, but NEVER do that in an operational area.

The day you started with your social media blitzkrieg, you were a dead man. You encouraged young men of Kashmir to kill Indian soldiers, all from behind the safety of your Facebook account. Your female fan following was delirious. You were a social media rage. Unknown to you, there was probably some nerd with a laptop sitting in HQ XV Corps, tracking you 24/7. You died when you were 22. Had you survived this operation, you would have died when you were 23. Just a different date on the calendar, that’s all. The intensity of violence and the result would have been the same.

I wish we had met and I could have explained to you (before killing you) that the old men of the Hurriyat Conference are like leech. They feed on the blood of men. They send young Kashmiris to face the Indian Army. What sort of a war is this, where lambs are sent to fight lions?

I would have shown you the sheer duplicity of the Hurriyat, with their sons living abroad, pursuing professions other than jihad. Name one relative of Syed Ali Geelani, the head of the Hurriyat Conference, who is fighting the so-called Indian “occupation”? His son Nayeem Geelani is a doctor in Rawalpindi, and lives under the patronage of the Pakistani ISI. Zahoor, his second son, lives in South Delhi. Mirwaiz Umar Farooq’s sister Rabia is a doctor in the US. Mariyam Andrabi, sister of head of the radical Dukhtran-e-Millat, Asiya Andrabi, along with her family lives in Malaysia. Every Kashmiri separatist leader’s daughter or son is rich and safe, outside Kashmir. Jihad is for other people’s sons.

And your parent’s son is dead. Dead from a 7.62 mm full metal jacket round to the head.

Kashmir’s young and restless blame the security forces for killing them. But they never question the Hurriyat. No one asks Syed Ali Geelani why Burhan Wani is not from his family.

Pakistani media was ecstatic when Kashmiris celebrated Eid this year along with Pakistan and not with the rest of India. This was reported as a blow to the unity of India. This is the first time in the 1400 year history of Islam that Eid was declared, not by witnessing the Shawwal moon, but by looking towards Pakistan. Well done.

The Hurriyat has nothing to do with Kashmiris. This unrest, this bloodshed is just another business. If not, I would like to see the list of martyrs from the Hurriyat leadership’s families.

The Hurriyat knows too well that Kashmir has fallen off the map of the world’s attention. No one cares and everyone knows that it is an artificially manufactured conflict. The Kashmir dispute exists because it is an inexpensive way for Pakistan to keep Indian forces bogged down in the valley.

You were a terrorist. You chose to wage war against India. Like for all other such perpetrators in the past, it didn’t go too well for you. When you choose to fight against the Indian Army, know this; THEY WILL KILL YOU.

Your supporters now want blood. So be it.

Cheers!

Major Gaurav Arya (Veteran)

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby souravB » 20 Oct 2018 01:35

Discussion on Army Reforms


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