Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

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mody
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby mody » 21 Aug 2019 15:20

The Kargil Skardu road is supposed to be fairly well developed and except for the last 10-30 odd Kms to the LoC, its an all weather road. The civilian population on both sides, have also asked for it to be opened to regular traffic and trade in the past.
The Srinagar Skardu road on the other hand is not very well developed and India should develop this road into an all weather road, almost upto the LoC. Taking Skradu and possible all of Baltistan is a strategic imperative for India. We missed a golden chance in 1999. Retaking Baltistan will solve the Siachen problem for us and will also checkmate China is Gilgit-Baltistan.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby mody » 21 Aug 2019 15:39

By the way the Chinese have just released pictures of their latest war games, carried at undisclosed location, only stating that it was carried out at altitude of 14,000ft and on snow covered plateau. The Chinese had deployed combat robots and their latest type 99-A MBTs in the exercise.
Time for IA to finally order the Arjun MK-1A/2 and give the go ahead for development of Arjun-MK3/2, with a turret based autoloader, 3 man crew, 125 or 130 mm smooth bore L51 main gun and max weight of about 55-58 tons. The tanks to be deployed in North Sikkim and Ladakh, besides the plains and deserts of Punjab and Rajasthan.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vips » 21 Aug 2019 18:02

HFCL bags Rs 3,329 crore order for Army Communication network.

Telecom gear maker HFCL on Tuesday said it has bagged Rs 3,329 crore order from state-owned BSNL to build and maintain communication network of Indian army under Network for Spectrum project.

The project is to be completed within 18 months.

“We are proud to have been awarded this prestigious project. This advanced next generation network would be very critical communication
network for Indian Army,” HFCL MD Mahendra Nahata said

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 29 Aug 2019 11:24

Indian Troops in Jammu & Kashmir

For a long time, Pakistan has peddled that Indian has 700,000 troops in Kashmir. However, after the recent abrogation of Article 370 and GOI inducting more CAPF into J&K, absolutely rubbish numbers about strenght of Indian security forces have started appearing in Indian and foreign press. One Indian journalist writing in Deccan Chronicle and Asian Age claimed that India has 1 million soldiers in J&K! :evil:

Others like The Wire, after initially claiming the same number as above, dialed it down to 'half a million'. Foreign press, including worthies like Al Jazeera, Guardian and Forbes are all claiming 'half a million' troops in J&K. To bust this propaganda, I've done a detailed analysis on the number of Indian security personnel in J&K. No one talks about deployment of Pakistan Army in AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan. And how Indian Army has to maintain troops in J&K to meet threats from Pakistan as well as China.

In the analysis I've done a detailed assessment of the deployment of Pakistan Army to brigade level. And the kind of numbers Indian Army has to maintain to counter this threat. Doing this separates the troops strength from numbers deployed for actual Counter Insurgency Ops (CI Ops) - For CI Ops, I've done an assessment of the RR, CRPF, Army (in CI Ops) and other CAPF. Please have a look and do share so that we can bust this propaganda:

Half a million or 1 million? While media peddles fantastical claims, here are the actual number of troops deployed in Jammu & Kashmir
https://www.opindia.com/2019/08/half-a- ... d-kashmir/

By Rohit Vats, 28 August 2019

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 29 Aug 2019 16:37

Rohit ji, please consider marking it to the attention of large & popular influencers like for eg Major Gaurav Arya (Retd). They (and possibly some of their more popular followers) can generate the requisite traction.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby rohitvats » 29 Aug 2019 20:34

^^^Thank you for the suggestion. Will act upon it.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 29 Aug 2019 20:54

Manish_P wrote:Rohit ji, please consider marking it to the attention of large & popular influencers like for eg Major Gaurav Arya (Retd). They (and possibly some of their more popular followers) can generate the requisite traction.

Please check Myth #1 in this video....


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 30 Aug 2019 22:21

Rakesh ji, thanks for sharing that video.

I mentioned the retired Major as one example of an influencer.

One Reason that I requested @Rohitvats to share it with influencers (one of whom can be the retired Major), is that @rohitvats is not a serving/retired fauji (apologies if I am wrong here). A very detailed analysis coming from a knowledgeable civilian has it's own advantages.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 30 Aug 2019 22:30

Agree with your post, except for the ji after my name.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 30 Aug 2019 22:43

i think the more shares the merrier.

The question we should from a sanity perspective is that out of 1.2 Mn strong army do we have 700K in 100*100 land? BTW that population also has localites living there too Where do these 700k people live? ...Does that make sense? That would make J&K denser than Manhattan/NJ sans the sky scrapers.

Who mans our borders with China, and rest of pakistan on IB along, Ladakh UT, Punjab, Guj, Rajasthan, AP, Sikkim, HP, and where not...?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 31 Aug 2019 04:08

rohitvats wrote:^^^Thank you for the suggestion. Will act upon it.

Superb work Rohit, should go a long way in clearing up the fud.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Philip » 01 Sep 2019 08:55

Was the report about the IA discarding the MSC for the north- east in favour of smaller more integrated forces suitable for terrain conditions posted?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Prem Kumar » 01 Sep 2019 13:44

Rohit: superb work!

Please share it with @prasannavishy & @amargov (Swarajya) or @rahulroushan & @unsubtledesi (OpIndia). They will certainly publish it & it will reach a wide audience

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Sep 2019 15:31

^^I dont think there's anyone who writes better than Rohit on such matters..may be ravi rikhye comes close in such matters..but rohit's details are amazing.. OT but rohit did you seriously consider this as a career?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Ankit Desai » 02 Sep 2019 10:32

First integrated battle group to be deployed along India-Pakistan border.

As tensions simmer on the 3,323-km-long India- Pakistan border, the Indian army is set to deploy its first Integrated Battle Group (IBG) along the frontier by the end of this year, Chief of Army Staff General Bipin Rawat said. In all, the Indian Army plans to form and deploy 11 -13 IBGs to protect its western and eastern borders.

The ministry of defence (MoD) has cleared the reorganisation of IX Corps, based in Yol in Himachal Pradesh, to form the IBGs to be deployed along the western border. Raised in 2009, IX Corps is one of the army’s youngest corps and is part of the Chandimandir, Haryana-based Western Army Command.

This is one of the biggest reorganisations of the Army and General Rawat is its prime mover.

Restructuring of the combat potential of the Indian army will happen “selectively from sector to sector,” Rawat said. “The international border portion of J&K Kashmir will see reorganisation first followed by others, making the Indian army a leaner and meaner fighting unit,” general Rawat said, explaining the rationale behind the exercise.

In contrast with the traditional and somewhat antiquated fighting units of the army Corps, each of which comprises at least three brigades, the IBGs are smaller, meaner, self-contained fighting units, including elements of air power, artillery, amour. The IBG will encompass 6-8 battalions depending on the terrain where it is deployed and the purpose it is meant for...The composition of the IBGs will vary depending on the “task” and the “order of battle,” said a senior Army officer who did not want to be named.

“The IBGs, on an average, would comprise 20,000- 25,000 men,”said the officer. While each IBG will be a self-contained fighting unit, it can draw logistical support from other formations. The IBGs will be smaller and more flexible, allowing faster mobilisation. The formation of the IBGs, among other things, will drastically cut the time required to mobilise the strike arms of the Army. Each IBG will be commanded by an officer of the rank of major general.

The Siliguri-based XXXIII Corps, tasked with protecting the Indo-Tibetan border including Sikkim, is next in line for being transformed into an IBS. The XXXIII Corps, which moved to its present location in 1962, comprises the Black Cat, Kirpan and Striking Lion divisions and an artillery division – an estimated 30,000 thousand soldiers.

The XXXIII Corps is likely to be re-organised into five IBGs, each tasked differently, a second senior officer requesting anonymity said. The recently raised, Panagarh, West Bengal-based Mountain Strike Corps, or Brahmastra Corps, the only strike corps designated to fight along the India-China border, will also be restructured to form three IBGs.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby VinodTK » 02 Sep 2019 18:59

Ankit Desai wrote:First integrated battle group to be deployed along India-Pakistan border.

As tensions simmer on the 3,323-km-long India- Pakistan border, the Indian army is set to deploy its first Integrated Battle Group (IBG) along the frontier by the end of this year, Chief of Army Staff General Bipin Rawat said. In all, the Indian Army plans to form and deploy 11 -13 IBGs to protect its western and eastern borders.

Good news, it would be interesting to see as to what know of air cover offensive and defensive will be available for the IBG's

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby mody » 04 Sep 2019 20:49

Great Article Rohit.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Ankit Desai » 12 Sep 2019 07:57

Indian Army to test new battle strategy near China border

For the first time, the Indian Army will test its new battle strategy in the Himalayan range in the North East near the border with China. Indian Army's Integrated Battle Groups (IBG) will be launched in a training exercise of the 17th Corps which are located at Panagarh in West Bengal.

The three IBGs, which together make up about 15,000 soldiers, will participate in this important exercise lasting four to six weeks. The exercise will be conducted to measure the time taken by the IBGs to reach the border, flank the front and then start a military operation. The exercise aims to reach the target in the shortest time possible through the means of road, rail and air. In addition to this, the recently-built military infrastructure in the Himalayas will also be tested.

The country's first Mountain Strike Corps, the 17th Corps, was formed a few years ago to face China in Panagarh. Two years ago, the corps conducted a large military exercise in Ladakh to test their preparedness for mountain warfare. The Army started forming IBGs last year to make defence more effective.

The IBGs are larger than a brigade but smaller than a division. As per the need of modern times, large troops will be prepared to carry out operations. In all, six IBGs will be deployed on the western border and three on the eastern border. The 9th Corps of the Army based at Yol in Himachal Pradesh conducted a large military exercise with its three IBGs earlier this year.

Now the 17th Corps is doing these exercises to test its three IBGs. Training and planning for this exercise have started in Panagarh, the headquarters of the 17th Corps.

The exercise will take place in the 4th Corps area of Tezpur which extends from Assam to Arunachal Pradesh. Though the exercise is taking place near the border of China, it is far enough from the border that China need not be formally informed about it, highly-placed sources in the Army said.

Army Chief General Bipin Rawat has played an important role in the Army Reorganisation Program. In IBG, all components of the Army such as tanks, artillery, infantry and war helicopters will work under the same command so that there is ease of coordination. The three IBGs are being formed in the 9th, 11th and 17th Corps of the Indian Army.


-Ankit

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Y I Patel » 13 Sep 2019 05:57

The article above has some significant pieces of information regarding Army reorg:

(1) We have the first confirmation that 17 MSC is now operational. There were previous reports of two Divisions in the process of being raised, but this is the first unequivocal confirmation that the component units are now in place and ready to start field exercises in a prospective AOR. Another big piece of related information is that 17 MSC will contain 3 IBGs. So instead of the originally envisaged three Div +, 90k strong formation, it was first sized as a two Div formation, and now as a 3 IBG formation. Unless the 3 IBGs are in addition to 2 Divs - that may still be a possibility, but a the current pressure to keep a lid on manpower related costs would more likely mean it is a lean and mean high mobility force

(2) Three IBGs in 9 Corps... is this a pattern here, of divs being replaced by IBGs in certain formations? That may be premature to say, since we do not know anything firm about what happens to the div formations in those corps. So what happens to the other formations in that corps? Will they (a) still be there, (b) be dual tasked elsewhere, or (c) be dissolved? So more information still needs to be released for us to start forming a clear picture of the new operational paradigm

(3) Do the remaining three IBGs all go to 11 corps, or will they be distributed among different western facing corps? Not clear from the article, but one implication could be that all three go to 11 corps? If so, given that 11 corps AOR does not have high impact strategic territory to capture or defend for 100kms either side of border, the IBG(s) associated with 11 could be defensively oriented...

(4) We are given to understand that some IBGs are to be offensively oriented, and others defensively so. So what can be said about the 9 we have heard about? Well, the ones in 17 corps will for sure be offensively oriented. The ones in 9? Not clear, could be 1 or 2 defensive and 2 or1 offensive out of three. The offensive/defensive orientation of the last three depends on which corps they are deployed with. If all are with 11 corps it is very likely they will be defensively oriented and 11 corps is being downsized. In that case any offensive operations in its AOR will then fall on 21 corps or a combination of 21 and 2 corps.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Kanson » 13 Sep 2019 10:07

IBGs are like Rapid Reaction force. First to respond to the arising situation.

Since they have to go there first and hold, they are made as complete unit as possible to do the job with all the needed elements till further units come to the scene. Or melt & mellow the situtation for the offensive corps/unit to join or take over.

It is made as quick reaction force, it is made as light as possible with needed elements as a complete fighting unit for the job it is expected to perform.

It is capable of doing both offensive & defensive.

As far as i know, there are no seperate IBGs marked for offensive role. They are organic.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby VinodTK » 14 Sep 2019 01:37

Cross Posting from Border Watch thread:
Indian soldiers injured in boat incident with Chinese army
LEH, India (AP) — Chinese and Indian army boats collided on a lake in an area of Kashmir claimed by both countries, injuring some Indian soldiers, but the incident has been settled, Indian officials said Thursday.

The collision occurred Wednesday because of different perceptions of the disputed border in the Ladakh region, an Indian army officer said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

He said army delegations from the two sides met later in the day and settled the incident and withdrew the troops. No other details were immediately available.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Y I Patel » 14 Sep 2019 07:58

After posting yesterday I recollected Rohit's blog post which talks about dual tasked divisions for 9 Corps and 17 corps... so the IBGs are not a replacement, but an augmentation of 17, 9, 11 and maybe some other corps. The other facet of the reorg seems to be increased dual tasking of division level formations. So 17 corps may yet reach a 90k strength if it has 2 divs, 3 IBGs and 14 div dual tasked to it.

In the pre-reorg structure, all strike corps and Pak facing corps have Independent Brigades, some of them significantly larger relative to normal brigades. Looked at in that way, IBGs are an evolution of the independent brigade through inclusion of all arms units - independent brigades are similarly large, but they were armoured or infantry brigades like their normal counterparts and lacked organic arty, engineer, etc assets as possessed by the new IBGs.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby jaysimha » 14 Sep 2019 17:52


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 18 Sep 2019 15:43

#WATCH – Indian Army releases video of Pakistan SSG troops near India's post along the river Poonch.


https://twitter.com/CNNnews18/status/1174256758879076354

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby srin » 19 Sep 2019 22:33


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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Karan M » 20 Sep 2019 00:58

YI Patel, wouldn't read too much into which units are getting IBGs.. per Gen Rawat, they are testbeds.. if the idea flops, the plan is to be able to go back to the older system. Basically, the aim is not to have just 1 IBG per Corps or Division etc. The current layout is for evaluation.

In the pre-reorg structure, all strike corps and Pak facing corps have Independent Brigades, some of them significantly larger relative to normal brigades. Looked at in that way, IBGs are an evolution of the independent brigade through inclusion of all arms units - independent brigades are similarly large, but they were armoured or infantry brigades like their normal counterparts and lacked organic arty, engineer, etc assets as possessed by the new IBGs.


Bingo, these are "truly" independent brigades with theater, sector specific TOE... super specialized so to speak.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby fanne » 20 Sep 2019 01:26

My take on current deployment of Army on border with China is simple - The best months to fight in those areas are September and October. (NOV) Dec/Feb (March) will be too cold, snow etc. (after all it is Himalayas). After April to August it will be too hot and monsoon on western border. So these are the two best months for two front war for our adversaries. By mobilizing ahead of time, we have preempted the enemy. In mountains, you really need 7:1 ratio for a breakthrough, and if you are already mobilized, it is tough for the enemy.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chetak » 22 Sep 2019 19:22

#WATCH USA: American Army band playing Indian National Anthem during the Exercise Yudh Abhyas 2019 at Joint Base Lewis, McChord.



https://twitter.com/ANI/status/1174514207095742464

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby AdityaM » 24 Sep 2019 22:09

Army twitter handle had reported Yeti sighting after the Balakot air strike.
And after that no further news of it surfaced.

Some had then said that it was the army mocking airforce for ‘exaggerated’ balakot claims.

What happened with the Yeti sighting claim?

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby kit » 24 Sep 2019 22:41

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/india-moves-towards-broad-adoption-of-asraam-460441/


In addition to ASRAAM, MBDA’s Brimstone is also being considered for the indigenously developed Hawk-i, which is a HAL funded upgrade of BAE Systems Hawk Mk132 jet trainers, manufactured under license.

“We believe that arming Hawk is a logical step for India, and that ASRAAM and Brimstone together offer a mature and high-performance weapon suite that, if fitted to Hawk, could be decisive in a major conflict….with Brimstone, a single Hawk has the ability to accurately and easily destroy six tanks simultaneously,” says MBDA

is the Hawk being considered in CAS role ? I dont think it ever was ??!!

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby kit » 24 Sep 2019 22:43

AdityaM wrote:Army twitter handle had reported Yeti sighting after the Balakot air strike.
And after that no further news of it surfaced.

Some had then said that it was the army mocking airforce for ‘exaggerated’ balakot claims.

What happened with the Yeti sighting claim?


OT but the American Navy pilots have released actual footage of an UFO , with the pentagon confirming it was an UFO but video not cleared for release. Keep in mind UFO does not mean alien aircraft :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby VinodTK » 25 Sep 2019 14:56

Arsenal for Pakistan prepped, Army now focuses on ammo reserves to deal with China
New Delhi: The Army has built up ammunition reserves to keep up a 10-day “intense war” with Pakistan and is now focusing on equipping its arsenal for any possible conflict with China, ThePrint has learnt.

According to defence sources, efforts are already under way to bolster the Army’s War Wastage Reserve (WWR) ammunition for “30 days of intense war” along the northern and eastern borders.
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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby chola » 25 Sep 2019 15:09

AdityaM wrote:Army twitter handle had reported Yeti sighting after the Balakot air strike.

What happened with the Yeti sighting claim?


Just hairy Islamic beardos running helter-kelter from IAF bombs.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 25 Sep 2019 16:57

:rotfl:

At the time I had almost thought that it was some psy-ops from the IA. Some years earlier there were reports of jihadis getting killed and eaten by bears. Subsequently the handlers in jihadistan were thought to have asked the militants not to seek refuge in caves/forested areas.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Philip » 26 Sep 2019 11:50

This is what matters most. Our warfighting ability , current status and filling i the gaps in our preparedness.Spares and logistic supplies, including warfightinv fuel reserves are vital in times of conflict.

The scenario with China is the most worrying, where it is perceived that China will make the first strike using its vast missile arsenal , striking against our command centres and key bases before movement on the ground.Secondly, how survivable are they? Are there well-fortified UG bunkers which can withstand such missile attacks? It also requires a vastly expanded SAM system for point and area efence of such logistic bases and key defence clusters , networked with our national AD system..Pak may find it hard going a week on, but China cominv to its aid, especially in J&K once Pak starts huffing and puffing complicates our defence.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 27 Sep 2019 00:09

How did IA come up with the 10 days number? Seems mighty short to accomplish anything but play defense.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Bala Vignesh » 27 Sep 2019 00:27

Vivek,

I think it's best not to second guess the decisions of professionals who would be betting their life based on this assessment. Let's leave these decisions to the professionals, which you and me are clearly not.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2019 00:49

Vivek K wrote:How did IA come up with the 10 days number? Seems mighty short to accomplish anything but play defense.



96 HOURS ENOUGH.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby ramana » 27 Sep 2019 00:58

Philip wrote:This is what matters most. Our warfighting ability , current status and filling i the gaps in our preparedness.Spares and logistic supplies, including warfightinv fuel reserves are vital in times of conflict.

The scenario with China is the most worrying, where it is perceived that China will make the first strike using its vast missile arsenal , striking against our command centres and key bases before movement on the ground. Secondly, how survivable are they? Are there well-fortified UG bunkers which can withstand such missile attacks? It also requires a vastly expanded SAM system for point and area defence of such logistic bases and key defence clusters , networked with our national AD system..Pak may find it hard going a week on, but China coming to its aid, especially in J&K once Pak starts huffing and puffing complicates our defence.


Philip, you have >20K posts and been a long time member.
It does not behoove you to do dhoti shiver.
First you talk of a first strike by China with missiles and whatnot on command centers and bases.
That's general war. Not a left hand play.
What is the objective of that war?

Next you bring in China supporting Pak in J&K and that complicates our defence.

TSP is no big bad wolf to huff and puff. its a little hyena that has been defanged.
You can see they are openly saying they have no support.
In what way will China jump in to support this loser?

The fact that China gave nukes to TSP means there wont be a two front war.
basically its everyone for themselves.
And China is not going to jeopardize their future for a loser state like TSP.
And if it intervenes on its own terms India is prepared unlike 1962.

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Re: Indian Army News & Discussions - 11 June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 27 Sep 2019 02:20

Bala Vignesh wrote:Vivek,

I think it's best not to second guess the decisions of professionals who would be betting their life based on this assessment. Let's leave these decisions to the professionals, which you and me are clearly not.

How did you conclude I was second guessing?

I asked for the the basis of 10 day calculation for my own education since history shows otherwise.
a) Kargil lasted from Mid May to nearly end of July.
b) 1971 war lasted from Dec 3 to Dec 16;
c) The 1965 war lasted from Mid August to about September 23.
d) The war with China lasted from October 20th to November 21st.

So the maybe I should have asked the question differently - is this calculation based on some strike doctrine like Cold Start that would bring the enemy to collapse sooner? And why is this such a sacred cow to talk about? We are not alleging any corruption or any such. The only motive is to better understand and discuss the topic with open source information.
Last edited by Vivek K on 27 Sep 2019 02:37, edited 1 time in total.


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