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PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

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Manish_P
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Manish_P » 01 Feb 2017 08:12

Cybaru wrote:
Yeah, I have noticed bad plumbing all around! Yep, must be source of leakage!


:rotfl:

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2017 09:34

Israel and Turkey are NATO members and are treated bound to protect comparing with India is like Apple and Oranges comparison

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 01 Feb 2017 09:38

Russia eyes light version of the BrahMos cruise missile for its PAK FA fighter jet

http://www.airrecognition.com/index.php ... r-jet.html
The BrahMos light cruise missile will be mounted both in submarines’ torpedo launchers and on Russia’s fifth-generation T-50 PAK FA (Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) fighter jet, CEO and General Designer of the Machine-Building R&D Consortium Alexander Leonov said on Friday.

"We are working on the missile’s light version. It should fit the size of a torpedo tube and be almost 1.5 times smaller by its weight. It will be possible to mount our airborne missile on a wide range [of aircraft]. Of course, we’ll be developing it, first of all, for the fifth-generation plane but, possibly, it will be mounted on the MiG-35 fighter, although we have not carried out such developments," he said.

The BrahMos supersonic cruise missile is the product of Russia’s Machine-Building Research and Development Consortium and India’s Defense Research and Development Organization, which set up BrahMos Aerospace joint venture in 1998. In Sept. 2016, Russia also announced its interest to purchase the air-launched version of the cruise missile to arm the Sukhoi Su-30SM fighter jet.

The missile’s name comes from the names of two rivers: the Indian Brahmaputra of and the Russian Moscow river. The missile has a range of 290 km and carries a warhead weighing from 200 to 300 kg.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Kartik » 03 Feb 2017 02:55

When did this happen?

Russia India developing lightweight Brahmos variant

...

The latest announcement came less than six months after India resurrected the stalled Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme it launched with Russia in 2007-08 by agreeing to pay USD3.7 billion over seven years towards furthering the project.

In September 2016 both sides agreed that each country would pay USD1 billion on signing the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fighter developmental contract on which the FGFA is based, and USD450 million annually thereafter for the six years it will take to confirm the FGFA's final design for the Indian Air Force (IAF).

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 03 Feb 2017 10:45

I don't think that several deals already approved and signed by the two parties have actually been concluded like the KA-226 helo deal,which was signed between Putin and Modi during Putin's last visit to India. The red-tapism that afflicts our MOD ( in this case HAL allegedly trying to scuttle the deal even after it has been signed!) must be short-circuited in the national interest. The Rafale deal took years to conclude for just 36 aircraft.The minesweeper deal with SoKo looks like it has sunk,While we delay,delay and delay,the PRC and Pak simply accelerate their military modernisation and expansion,laughing at us all the way.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 03 Feb 2017 11:43

Kartik wrote:When did this happen?

Russia India developing lightweight Brahmos variant

...

The latest announcement came less than six months after India resurrected the stalled Fifth-Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) programme it launched with Russia in 2007-08 by agreeing to pay USD3.7 billion over seven years towards furthering the project.

In September 2016 both sides agreed that each country would pay USD1 billion on signing the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fighter developmental contract on which the FGFA is based, and USD450 million annually thereafter for the six years it will take to confirm the FGFA's final design for the Indian Air Force (IAF).


These are just terms of payment if the news is true but the actual deal has not been signed yet , we just spent couple of millions so far to get our staff to SDB to jointly study the design to customise things for Indian specific FGFA and an office was built at HAL in Bangalore with link to SDB to carry the work and for training of personal on FGFA project.

So far from news we have agreed upon the final specification of FGFA and Indian contribution to it , Now they are negotiation on exports arrangement etc

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Feb 2017 08:57

While Aero India is in phull swing on BR, here is some other newj: http://tass.com/defense/930699

Russia’s PAK FA 5th-generation jet with new engine to make maiden flight in 2017

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 20 Feb 2017 14:49

Indo-Russia fifth generation fighter aircraft will be completely new, not linked to Sukhoi T 50: Russia

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 185821.cms

Rostec has said that it is worrying that faster progress has not been made by the Indian side to finalise the project.

"We have raised the matter at the highest level and had discussions at Aero India as well. What is worrying is that we are not yet taking the program ahead," Viktor N Kladov, Direct, International Cooperation, Rostec said, adding that he was hopeful that progress will be made this year to sign on the dotted line.

Russia is keen to differentiate the Indian project with its ongoing T 50 fighter jet program. "The Indian FGFA is not a copy cat of the T 50, it will be a new aircraft that will also have some technologies from the T 50. If India had wanted the T 50, we would not be working on a new aircraft (FGFA) program," Kladov said.

Answering a query by ET on whether the Russian side would be willing to work on integrating a western engine to the fifth generation aircraft (Russia has been facing delays due to this), the executive said that such an approach would not be practical due to the history of sanctions by western powers. "Even in our plans to develop a new commercial aircraft to take on Boeing and Airbus, we are insisting on our own engine due to the past sanctions. In a military project these concerns are even more

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby kit » 20 Feb 2017 17:09

looks like "Brahmos" means a whole family of missiles now :mrgreen: ..the phallic symbol of Indian missile power

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby NRao » 20 Feb 2017 17:46



The key, from the same article, is :

with the air force constituting a new three member committee to reevaluate the project.


This committee is headed by a three star VM.

The problem seems to be the engine. The reporter himself asked if India could sub a Western engine.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 22 Feb 2017 12:44

"Completely new",means a decade from now! What is needed is a stealth bird asap to deal with imminent threats from the PLAAF,Pak and maintain our qualititative edge. The definitive version could be developed after the first sqds. (from Ru to almost Ru std.) are put through their paces. This will help in determining the variations/modifications we wish to make. It also means that AMCA dev. will get postponed. Since we have no dedicated strat. bomber,perhaps the AMCA concept is revised,with a large internal weapons bay and extended range and endurance to meet that mission carruing BMos-M and even hyper-BMos in the future..

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 22 Feb 2017 16:33

Ten years is an optimistic time frame for a "completely new" if that in fact means "completely new". As others have also opined, a modern 5th generation fighter takes time to design, develop, integrate and test and certify. The JSF saw Lockheed down-selected in 2001 and IOC was achieved only in 2015. On the PAKFA Sukhoi was selected in early 2002 and as of now we only have prototypes that have only recently moved to RuAF testing. Undertakings of this magnitude take time and the major contract hasn't even been signed yet.

Does anyone seriously believe that the FGFA is a completely new aircraft that has nothing in common with the T-50?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 22 Feb 2017 16:45

Well it will be T 51. So completely new one. Right?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 22 Feb 2017 16:49

Completely new would mean custom build for India , Which is Indian specific improvements (43 ) asked for.

The newness of FGFA would be as good as what Su-30SM is to Russia and MKI is to India or MKM is to Malaysia , All 3 are from Su-30 family but each is custom built for their respective airforce needs.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 13 Mar 2017 15:33

Russian MoD to receive three T-50 fifth-gen fighters among aircraft deliveries in 2017

The Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aviation Plant (KnAAZ: a subsidiary of Sukhoi) will deliver three T-50 (PAK FA) fifth-generation multirole fighters to Russia's Ministry of Defence (MoD) in 2017, Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov said on 9 March during a working trip to the Far East and Siberia.

"The work on the T-50 aircraft will be continued and three aircraft will be built. They will join the final level of the first stage of trials," Borisov said, adding that "the planned trials programme is a continuous one".

The official pointed out that the first level of trials of the T-50 are due to be finished in 2018 and that serial production of the aircraft under Russia's new rearmament programme can only be discussed after its completion.

Meanwhile, the Russian MoD will take delivery of 10 of the newest Su-35S super-maneuverable multirole fighters in 2017, according to Borisov. Additionally, four Su-27 aircraft will be upgraded to Su-35 (Su-27SM3) standard, he said.

In 2016 KnAAZ began implementing a contract to deliver 50 Su-35S fighters to the Russian military by 2020, with a planned output rate reaching 10 aircraft per year. The plant has already delivered 48 Su-35Ss since 2009.

In 2017 the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS) and Naval Aviation forces will receive 17 new Su-30SM multirole fighter jets and 10 YaK-130 operational trainers to be supplied by the Irkut Corporation, Borisov said, while visiting the Irkutsk Aviation Plant. "Long-term contracts have been signed with the Irkut Corporation, in accordance with which the company is to deliver 17 Su-30SM and 10 YaK-130 aircraft this year," he said.

In 2016 Irkut delivered about 50 aircraft to customers. The portfolio of the company includes Su-30MK and Su-30SM fighters, as well as YaK-130 operational trainers.

In April 2016 the Russian MoD and the Irkut Corporation signed a new contract for more than 30 Su-30SM multirole fighters to be delivered to the VKS by the end of 2018. These deliveries will be implemented under the state defence order for 2016-18.

Russia's MoD has been acquiring Su-30SMs since 2011. Russian orders for the type have exceeded 110 aircraft, with over half of those already delivered.

Irkut will also deliver 30 YaK-130 operational trainers to the VKS by the end of 2018. This is the fourth order for YaK-130s intended for the VKS, meaning that the number of YaK-130s in Russian service will reach 109 aircraft once the aforementioned order is implemented.

According to Borisov, the Russian MoD is also planning to sign a contract with Irkut for the first three YaK-152 trainers. "I hope that after the preliminary trials are finished this year we will be ready to sign a contract for the first three YaK-152 trainers intended for the initial training of cadet pilots," Borisov said. The Irkutsk Aviation Plant has been conducting flight trials of the YaK-152 since September 2016. The type is intended to become the initial training aircraft for Russian flight schools and the junior courses of air force academies, after which cadet pilots would progress on to YaK-130 operational trainers.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 17 Mar 2017 23:32

Full tech transfer could derail Indo-Russian fifth-gen fighter program

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ful ... er-program

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Liu » 18 Mar 2017 06:06

Austin wrote:Full tech transfer could derail Indo-Russian fifth-gen fighter program

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ful ... er-program

it is no way for any country to transfer full tech of 5g fighter to india..(if india were in the position of russia, would india be ready to gift full 5g bird tech to others?)


and,

even if russia were ready to gift all blueprints,india would still have to take 1-2 decades to fix india's broken industry chains before india can produce 5 g birds.


after all, one junior school student can not learn caculus,even if one university student gifts him a caculus textbook.
Last edited by Liu on 18 Mar 2017 11:34, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby shiv » 18 Mar 2017 06:48

Liu wrote:
even if russia were ready to gift all blueprints,india would still have to take 1-2 decades to fix india's broken industry chains before india can produce 5 g birds.

Good to see you sitting on your ass and gloating "Mine is bigger". In the long term that can only be beneficial

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Neshant » 18 Mar 2017 07:06

India learns nothing buying the FGFA.

Its a hand over of money for an imported plane for the most part - much like the Rafael.

Almost nothing significant in there is Indian.

And there is a question mark about whether it really is a 5th gen aircraft in the first place.

Chaotic decision of ad hoc spending on foreign planes with no clear understanding of how India would benefit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M92YT-3MaBM

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 18 Mar 2017 10:26

Neshant , FGFA program is a JV like Brahmos or Barak-8 or Maitri program , Both sides are 50 % stake holders in it , Each side will identify the technology they will develop and maintain their IP over the technology.

There has been spinoff from MKI program wehre HAL has earned good money in exporting such indiginous technology like the Mission Avionics Suite,MC/RC and other components in Malaysian SU-30MKM and Russian Su-30SM are Indian , We also do MRO/Train the Malaysian crew for Malaysian MKM.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Liu » 02 Apr 2017 17:28

well,
rumor came out from CD, that T50 is frozen and china wants it badly.

one famous chinese “deep throat” adult movie star reported it on Weibo(chinese poor attempt at copying twitter).

is it a joke on 1st,April?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 02 Apr 2017 21:36

Liu wrote:well,
rumor came out from CD, that T50 is frozen and china wants it badly.

one famous chinese “deep throat” adult movie star reported it on Weibo(chinese poor attempt at copying twitter).

is it a joke on 1st,April?


The rumour is True but valid only till end of April 1st :wink:

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ashishvikas » 09 Apr 2017 12:40

Panel on Indo-Russian fighter gets an extension

A high-power, five-member committee is closely examining the multi-billion dollar programme for the joint development of the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) with Russia. The committee will submit its report by May 15, a senior official told The Hindu.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/p ... 894465.ece

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Nick_S » 20 Apr 2017 14:28

Image

Garooda
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Garooda » 20 Apr 2017 21:39

Liu wrote:well, rumor came out from CD, that T50 is frozen and china wants it badly.
China always on the lookout and hunt for all they want everything latesht n greatesht :lol: for their copy n paste/copycat trademark (PI...I mean pun intended) industry :rotfl:

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 21 Apr 2017 12:28

Well May 15th could be "D-Day" for the FGFA.A pertinent point made is that Ru and India are not on the same "plane",pun intended,in the aircraft industry. If we do not have the materials manufacturing capability for some exotica,and will find it v.difficult to do so,what's the use of the tech transfer? If a steady supply of that component at reasonable cost is assured,why reinvent the wheel? However,from our decades of SU-30/MKI experience,the IAF should be able to identify the key areas/tech which is essential,and which in earlier reports,will assist us a lot in developing our AMCA. Some worthies in the stab. want that scaled up to a med. sized stealth bomber .Another titbit in IMR says that an unmanned version of Tejas is also being planned.

Back to the FGFA. If we really want to induct the bird asap,then we should-as we did with the SU-30s,buy 2 sqds of the std. Ru fighter,operate them until our definitive version is available and then return the birds. Tat way hopefully within 5 yrs. time,we should be able to induct the first sqd..

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 28 Apr 2017 16:13

Sukhoi starts testing new IMA BK FMS on Russia's PAK FA fighter


For performance comparision link
Old Baget-53-31M :

COMPOSITION:
> General-purpose processor module
(BT33-206B) - 6 pcs.
BT33-206B
Microprocessor:
Real time OS : OS RV Baget 2.0
Processor Module: BT33-206B
> Microprocessor architecture: MIPS IV
> Core clock speed: 396 MHz
> The design of the processor module: Euromechanics 6U VME
> Interprocessor interworking: VME 32 bus
> Interface for connecting modules: PCI 2.1 33 MHz, 32 bits
> Ethernet 100 Mbps

vs new IMA-BK-FMS :

Real-time operating system OS RV "Baget 4000"
The architecture of the processor cores: "Elbrus" with an extended set of commands
Total number of processor cores of the computer: 24 cores
Core clock speed (not less than): 600 MHz
Total capacity: up to 20,000 DMIPS (on the Dhrystone test), up to 150 GFLOPS for double precision numbers, up to 300 GFLOPS for single-precision numbers

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ashishvikas » 07 May 2017 16:53

Sjha : As predicted, India and Russia will sign the final development contract for the Sukhoi T-50 derived fifth generation fighter aircraft soon.

https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/861178149975068673

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ashishvikas » 07 May 2017 17:00

India, Russia to ink deal on 5th-generation fighter aircraft design

http://www.ecoti.in/9qVk4a

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 08 May 2017 08:52

How morally bankrupt can Indians be?? This is the lowest point (I hope) in India's history. Mortgage future generations and make India a roosi slave for ever! Enjoy!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Khalsa » 08 May 2017 11:24

Vivek I agree with you on the amount it will cost etc etc but I don't see many criticise the Brahmos Model of Operation and Co-operation.
Will we not be taking our lessons from the the Mig-21s to the Su-30 and VikramAditya into the negotiating room.

We need something in that space where we can dominate anyone in Asia and project our power well.

I am sorry AMCA is coming very slowly and F-35 will cost not less than the PAK FA.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 08 May 2017 12:15

Going through archives reg. costs of def. eqpt obtained from abroad,from AM Matheswaran commission/CAG,etc.:
Ru bought out MKIs around $35M only.Same built at home by HAL around $45-50M! Time taken by labour ,twice.
Barak-8. Supposed to be a JV between Israel and DRDO.Not only sev. years late,escalataed costs,but zero input from DRDO! We actually funded the whole programme for Israel! That too,two programmes were sought.MRSAM and LRSAM.Result,both are the very same B-8 missile! Fudging all the way.The report says that we will henceforth be "totally dependent upon Israel" for everything. Great job done by desi negotiators and DRDO. I think that's why a certain DRDO chief was not given an extension and bounced out.

Given just these two examples,there appears to be much truth in the accusation that the desi DPSUs cannot absorb high-tech mil weapon systems and make tall tales for the same about "indigenous production" which ends up being far costlier to the taxpayer for a polished up version of screwdriver tech.

As far as the FGFA goes,the PAK-FA has flown away tech -wise. It will meet Ru specs. If we want our own unique version,it will take us at leasta decade.By then China will possess a couple of hundred stealth fighters in the sky with some in Paki service too! WE must face the hard truth. We just do not (at this time) have the human and infrastructure resources mil-industrial base to match even China.Therefore,we must select some key tech required for the FGFA which we can handle and not imagine that the entire 100% of the aircraft can be designed/built in India.Our struggling to get the LCA into
limited production for Mk-1 speaks for itself. An initial buy of 2 sqds. of Ru std. ,just as we've done with the Rafale would be best ,the definitive version for the IAF improved with time.We've done the very same with the SU-30 remember,importing two sqds. ,which were to be returned once the MKI arrived. This is the most sensible way to go if we ever intend fielding a 5th-gen bird.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ShauryaT » 08 May 2017 17:18

ashishvikas wrote:India, Russia to ink deal on 5th-generation fighter aircraft design

http://www.ecoti.in/9qVk4a
Let the Modi government go ahead and get this deal done. Future generations will thank him one way of the other. Either for being a supplemental aircraft to the AMCA or the only 5th gen aircraft for the next generation. Either way, it will be the only one, at least until whenever our own 5G designs bear fruit. What Modiji does need to do is put our money where his heart is. Up the defense budget.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ShauryaT » 08 May 2017 17:55

OT: That decision on Barak was taken at the time of CNS Arun Prakash. They had realized at that time itself that DRDO efforts had not borne fruit. The Israeli JV was a hedge. The result today is the hedge worked and IN has a credible air defense in play. Were it not for the hedge, where will we be. Think of the FGFA that way. The MII has to move away from govt owned entities to private. Not a magic answer by itself, but an necessary part of the solution.

We see a repeat of the same in the IN on the N-LCA, with an RFI as a hedge.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby srai » 08 May 2017 18:32

^^^

Defense sector requires public-private partnership. In the Indian context, DRDO and academic institutions should focus on R&D as their composition is technical--mostly made up of scientists and engineers-- while the private sector would be better for manufacturing of those products. Generally speaking, defense R&D investment in the Indian private sector is lacking. More public and private funds need to be made available for research. The capabilities of private enterprises need to be raised to a level where they are able to meaningfully contribute in a JV-type of partnerships. Non-performing public entities need to be gradually opened up for privatization. The armed services also need to become partners in development of products from their inceptions. Full support must be a given.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 08 May 2017 20:22

ShauryaT, pointing to failures alone is the mantra repeated by most ex-forces personnel. Perhaps you're missing out on a whole lot of successes that the forces can also highlight. Improvements will only come if the forces remain open to domestic systems (with technologies/systems purchased from foreign vendors). Do you think that DRDO can hire a lot of young talent for say Tanks when the IA will not even touch the Arjun with the tip of their roosi nose?

Every couple of months there is an article about the signing of the agreement for the PAK-FA. This has been going on for almost 3-5 years. One could have completed basic design of the AMCA by now and perhaps had a prototype ready for structural testing if not more. When will the agreement be signed and when will the first aircraft see squadron service? If it will take 10 years to achieve squadron service or more, then why not invest in your own industry?

The Indian MIC in its infancy has shown a glimpse of what could be produced locally if investment and armed forces support was available. If each force was to develop a design bureau and get involved with DRDO from the beginning (from GSQR/ASQR development) then a lot could be achieved to provide not only military security but also economic security. And with the increasing nationalist stance of several nations around the globe, experienced Indian talent could be available that could be put to use in this MIC. Think about it - billions are spent in purchases while billions remain under the poverty level. Could a local MIC secure India on both fronts - military and economic? Would 300 LCAs be able to protect India from Pakistan? Would 300 LCA MK1A and 200 LCA Mk2s be able to protect India from China.

And what is the threat perception for the PAK-FA? The J-20? If merely looking like a FGFA can give an aircraft 5th gen capabilities then why can't India do the same? Buy a F22 or F35 model, scale up an airframe, put LCA or MKI internals in it and Voila - you have a JLCA or a JMKI!

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ShauryaT » 08 May 2017 20:56

Vivek K: The end policy result I know of is, the AMCA is not a sanctioned project yet to build a prototype and get it to fly. Not yet. Why all these years to get it up is a detail documented in the AMCA thread and one can argue there on why this or why that. I share your agony but at the end of the day, the forces need a capability to meet our security needs and the PAK-FA is not just to meet the J-20 threat. The Russians bring to the table decades of investment in defense technologies so would not pooh-pooh them so easily, even if they are a generation behind the west. The fact of the matter is these are strategic decisions and minus the indigenous capability available here and now, the nation has to seek the next best option that meets are security, economic and strategic needs. The Russian wares meet them in large measure.

I will agree there are other ways to skin the cat like you suggest build 100's of LCA's invest locally, double down on the AMCA and maybe invest with the Russians on the PAK-DA project instead of PAK-FA. But, is that likely?

ShauryaT
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby ShauryaT » 08 May 2017 21:09

On the PAK-FA, it would not be a bad idea to take the basic air frame, engines and some weapons but build all the sensors and data fusion using Indian technologies. Can be leveraged on our future platforms like AMCA and UAV. I have been of the view that it is incredibly difficult to build a manned lo fighter-bomber, which has all the sensors and data fusion on a single platform with a decent payload and range. No one has it. It will be prudent on India's part to hedge - especially give our incredibly low budgets and R&D base. Cannot do it all.
Last edited by ShauryaT on 09 May 2017 01:31, edited 1 time in total.

Vivek K
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Vivek K » 09 May 2017 00:56

Again you do realize that you can skin the cat differently to achieve the same results. Your reliance on decades of Rossi experience ignores the trials and tribulations that India has put up with in prior purchases. By trusting them more than your own, you are willing to condemn Indian society to forever being shackled with poverty and poor infrastructure. And will foreign weapons help against China where the period of the conflict will be longer requiring the capability to sustain for that period. How many months of munitions are maintained in stores?

Indian skies can be secured by building the LCA in numbers. Instead of jerking around IAF should get HAL whatever it needs and then get after them to increase production to 50 aircraft per year.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 09 May 2017 18:20

Good news (if accurate)! This report is from the ET,our side of the fence so should be a pretty accurate one. It means that the logjam is over and we can expect a signing when Mr. M and Mr. P next meet.

https://www.ruaviation.com/news/2017/5/8/8684/
India, Russia to ink deal on 5th-generation fighter aircraft design
Russian Aviaton » Monday May 8, 2017 12:24 MSK
After years of delay, India and Russia are likely to soon ink a "milestone" pact to finalise the detailed design for the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) and move ahead with the multi-billion dollar co-development project, Economic Times reported.

Government sources said almost all the ground work has been completed to finalise the deal for design of the jet as well as some other critical issues.

"The contract for the detailed design would be signed soon and that will be a major milestone. It should be signed in the second half of the year," a top official involved in the negotiations with Russia on the project said.

Asked whether India has linked the project to full-scale transfer of technology, the official, who requested anonymity, said both the countries are co-developers and India will have equal rights over the the technology. "We are co-developers. There is nothing called technology transfer in this project. India has equal rights. We will have the wherewithal to continue production. We are equal partner in the project," he said.

In the negotiations for the project, India had insisted that it must get all the required codes and access to critical technology so that it can upgrade the aircraft as per its requirements.

In February last year, India and Russia had revived talks on the project after a clearance from then Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar.

Since then, a lot of issues related to work share, IPR and technology transfer among others have been sorted out between the two sides, along with the monetary commitments. In 2007, India and Russia had inked an inter-governmental pact for the FGFA project.

In December 2010, India had agreed to pay USD 295 million towards the preliminary design of the fighter, which is called in India as the 'Perspective Multi-role Fighter' (PMF). However, negotiations faced various hurdles in the subsequent years.
Sources said the work on various co-development projects have been expedited following the government's renewed focus on modernisation of the armed forces.

In March, India and Russia had signed two key agreements for long-term maintenance and technical support for Russian- made Su-30MKI fighter jets of the Indian Air Force. Currently, the IAF operates around 230 Su-30MKI fighter jets and, as per the agreements, Russian defence majors United Aircraft Corporation and the United Engine Corporation will render technical support and provide maintenance services and spares for the fleet for a period of five years.


PS: The highlighted part about ":equal rights" is v.interesting.It avoids the Q about TOT and our ability to absorb the tech involved.However,given our financial stake in the JV,it gives us "equal rights" to ANY tech that is involved. This means that any tech developed by Sukhoi for the FGFA which may not be under manufacture in India for a while will still belong to us as well. So each side develops what it can do best and the two sides own the bird together.Something like BMos.


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