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PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 24 Aug 2017 10:43

Development costs will inevitably be v.high.Look at the cost of developing the JSF,the most expensive fighter in history,costing trillions! The MOD's mindset seems to be rooted in the past .I forgot to add another point.At the moment,BMos-L and Hyper are being developed to fit into the internal bay of an FGFA/SU-57,as well as advanced AAMs. Our MKIs are supposed to carry 3 smaller BMos variants.,but these would be underwing and underfuselage. If we were willing to spend approx. $200M for a single Rafale, what gives with costs for a more capable stealth bird?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 24 Aug 2017 11:02


Philip
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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 24 Aug 2017 12:16

Tx. for the pic.the zoomer gives great clarity .What is the pattern of small squares inside the engine intake though? Some sort pof radar absorbent material? The outline of the small linear underwing weapons bay is also clearly defined.Can't identify the little"bubble" under the nose though,a camera? Another Q,where are the gun ports?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 12:36

In this report,the T-50/SU-57 is supposedly testing tech for a future 6th-gen fighter.

http://tass.com/defense/958026
Russia’s 6th-generation fighter jet to get lasers capable of burning missile homing heads
Military & Defense July 27, 17:36 UTC+3
In addition to electromagnetic guns, the Russian sixth-generation fighter jet will also get guided electronic munitions

MOSCOW, July 27. /TASS/. Russia’s sixth-generation fighter jets will be furnished with lasers capable of physically burning an enemy’s missile homing heads, Adviser to the First Deputy CEO of Radio-Electronic Technologies Group (KRET) Vladimir Mikheyev told TASS on Thursday.
Russian Vice-Premier Dmitry Rogozin announced in March 2016 that Russia had started work on an advanced fighter jet. KRET is developing onboard equipment and electromagnetic weapons for future fighter aircraft on its own initiative.
"We already have laser protection systems installed on aircraft and helicopters and now we are talking about developments in the field of powered lasers that will be able to physically destroy attacking missiles’ homing heads," the adviser said.
"Roughly speaking, we’ll be able to burn out ‘the eyes’ of missiles that ‘look at us.’ Naturally, such systems will be installed on sixth-generation aircraft as well," he added.

Russia tests sixth-generation fighter elements on fifth-generation jet
KRET currently supplies President-S onboard defensive aids systems, which include a laser station of electro-optical suppression. With its interference, suppression and flares, the President-S causes an enemy’s missiles with various homing heads to fly past aircraft and helicopters.
In addition to electromagnetic guns, the Russian sixth-generation fighter jet will also get guided electronic munitions, the adviser to the KRET first deputy CEO said.
Sixth-generation fighter jets will perform ‘formation’ flights where one or two manned aircraft will fly alongside 20-30 drones that will be capable of carrying any weapons, Mikheyev said.
"One drone in a formation flight will carry microwave weapons, including guided electronic munitions while another drone will carry radio-electronic suppression and destruction means and a third UAV will be armed with a set of standard weaponry. Each specific task is solved by different armaments," he said.
The KRET adviser didn’t specify these guided electronic munitions or the mode of their operation.
As Mikheyev earlier told TASS, the unmanned variants of the sixth-generation combat plane will be armed with electromagnetic (microwave) guns. As the KRET adviser explained at that time, a microwave gun focuses and redirects electromagnetic radiation that heats up an object, for example, an antenna, and physically destroys it.
The size of a ‘formation’ flight may be adjusted when work with real prototypes begins, the KRET adviser said.
It is the unmanned version of the sixth-generation fighter jet that will be able to carry electromagnetic guns or microwave weapons, Mikheyev said.

READ ALSO
Electronic warfare system Rychag-AV
Russia’s cutting-edge weaponry capable of ‘blinding’ enemy's army

"The use of microwave weapons is highly problematic for a plane with a pilot due to the need to preserve his life. But if we develop an additional system of protection against our own microwave weapons, we’ll lose even more space and the weight margin. Besides, even the most complex and effective system can be insufficiently efficient," Mikheyev said.
Russia’s sixth-generation combat plane that will replace the T-50 fighter will be able to make radar photographs of enemy aircraft and determine their type and armament without the involvement of human operators, the KRET adviser said.
According to him, KRET is developing a radio-photonic locator for the future combat plane. The company already has its experimental prototype and is creating its full-scale mockup. A new radar system will considerably surpass all existing radars by its power and range, he said.
"The radio-photonic radar will be able to see farther than existing radars, in our estimates. And, as we irradiate an enemy in an unprecedentedly wide range of frequencies, we’ll know its position with the highest accuracy and after processing we’ll get an almost photographic image of it - radio vision," Mikheyev said.
As the KRET adviser said, "this is important for determining the type [of an aircraft]: the plane’s computer will immediately and automatically identify a flying object, for example, an F-18 with specific types of missile armament."
The new radar will also have better anti-jamming capabilities through its ultra-wide band and the huge dynamic range of its receiver. It will also additionally perform electronic warfare missions, transmit data and serve as a means of communication.
The sixth-generation fighter jet will also get "a powerful multi-spectral optical system operating in various ranges - the laser, infrared, ultraviolet and, actually, in the optical band, which, however, considerably exceeds the spectrum visible to humans," Mikheyev said.
This new optic system will supplement the radio-photonic radar, he noted.
READ ALSO

Russia mulls developing vertical take-off fighter jets for new aircraft carrier

KRET has developed the experimental prototype of the radio-photonic radar for the sixth-generation fighter jet. The prototype transmits, receives and processes the signal, Mikheyev said.
According to the KRET adviser, work has progressed on developing onboard radio-electronic equipment for the sixth-generation aircraft, in particular, the radio-optical photonic antenna array of its onboard locator.
"Both the emitter and the receiver have been built on the basis of the experimental prototype as part of the R&D work. All this works and performs the location - we emit an ultra-high frequency signal, it is reflected back and we receive and process it and get the radar picture of an object. We see what we need to do to make it optimal," he said.
"Now a full-fledged mockup of this radio-optical photonic antenna array is being developed as part of the research and development work, which will allow us to test the characteristics of the serial prototype," the KRET adviser said.
"We will be able to understand what it [the radar] should be, in what geometrical sizes and what its ranges and power should be," he noted.
KRET is also testing the technologies of the new radar’s specific elements - its emitter, the photonic crystal, the receiving path and resonators, Mikheyev said.

Sixth-generation fighter jet
Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin in charge of the defense sector announced in March 2016 about the commencement of work on the sixth-generation fighter jet.
As Head of the Directorate for Military Aviation Programs at the United Aircraft Corporation Vladimir Mikhailov told TASS in June last year, the Russian sixth-generation fighter jet prototype would perform its debut flight before 2025.
In a previous interview with TASS, KRET Adviser Mikheyev said that the new combat plane would come in two variants - the manned and unmanned versions. New fighters will operate in a ‘formation’ led by a piloted plane. Drones will be able to carry electromagnetic guns, fly at hypersonic speed and go into the outer space.
This time, Mikheyev added that the unmanned variant would get maneuverability unavailable for piloted aircraft, which are limited by the human’s ability to withstand overloads. While both the manned and unmanned variants will be made on the same basis, they will differ by their armament, equipment and external outlook, he said.

http://tass.com/defense/958026

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Chinmay » 25 Aug 2017 13:56

Philip wrote:In this report,the T-50/SU-57 is supposedly testing tech for a future 6th-gen fighter.

In addition to electromagnetic guns, the Russian sixth-generation fighter jet will also get guided electronic munitions, the adviser to the KRET first deputy CEO said.
"


Might as well give it photon torpedos and provide the pilot with a dual blade lightsaber.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 19:22

Why not? The US shot down its laser equipped jumbo BM "destroyer" becos of cost.The tech exists though.

THis report suggests that there is an effort to scuttle the FGFA deal with Russia for a
few more" Rafales.
If the price does indeed come down,then the search for another line (SE) of light fighter may be unnecessary esp. if simultaneously the LCA dev/prod. is vastly improved.

However,scrapping the FGFA deal would mean no stealth bird for the IAF until the paper (AMCA) plane arrives.Hopefully post 2030 from current estimates.During that time,the Chinese would have hundreds of their stealth birds in the sky,some definitely with Pak too.The handful of rafales would be both outnumbered and outclassed post 2025.Even at a reduce cost,the aircraft would still be around $120M a pop.A ridiculous price when compared with other comparable aircraft and its capability too when compared with an SU-35/MKI-SS upgrade.

http://www.defencenews.in/article/A-fol ... ngs-283874
A follow-on order of 36 Rafale Jets will result in 40 per cent savings
Friday, August 25, 2017
The IAF is now pitching for acquiring another 36 Rafale fighters after it gets the first 36 jets under the Rs 59,000-crore contract ($9.3 billion) inked with France last September, stressing that the “follow-on” deal will cost just around 60% of the original acquisition and induction price.

Defence ministry sources on Thursday said IAF has made “some presentations” on the operational need to procure 36 additional Rafales as part of its long-term plans, with the force contending the French fighters will prove to be much cheaper than the proposed fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) to be developed with Russia. “But no final decision has been taken on either the 36 additional Rafales or the FGFA project,” said an MoD source.

The Modi government had inked the deal for the 36 Rafales, with their weapon packages, associated supplies and logistics, after scrapping the deadlocked $20 billion MMRCA (medium multi-role combat aircraft) project for 126 fighters due to IAF’s “critical operational necessity”.

As earlier reported by TOI, the first Rafale squadron (18 jets) will be based at Hasimara (West Bengal) to cater for China, while the second will come up at Ambala (Haryana) for Pakistan. The 36 omnirole jets, which can also deliver nuclear weapons, are slated for delivery from November 2019 to mid-2022.

The IAF has told the MoD the infrastructure coming up at Hasimara and Ambala airbases can accommodate two Rafale squadrons each. “This will cut down the induction costs of the 36 additional fighters,” said the source. Grappling with just 33-34 fighter squadrons when at least 42-44 are needed to tackle the “collusive threat” from China and Pakistan, IAF says the Rafales will be “a huge deterrent” with their deadly Meteor air-to-air missiles (150km range), Scalp air-toground cruise missiles (300km) and other weapons.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 26 Aug 2017 11:23

FGFA ain't going nowhere, the committee headed by an IAF Marshall gave it a full green light. This article is just a lifafa piece by the notorious Vivek raghuvanshi.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby abhik » 26 Aug 2017 12:31

Setting up a committee headed by retired IAF Marshall was a cop out by the decision makers, they are neither able close the deal nor are they able to break it.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 26 Aug 2017 12:57

The Rafale lobby during the UPA era remember had a v.powerful "R" lobby which was to have built the bird had the deal gone through in full.At that time a Russian Min. or was it the ambassador,said that we would be paying huge money for a 4++ fighter when the FGFA was available for less.We hadn't got our act then as to what aspects of the programme we would contribute too in development,reason being we had no scientific manpower for the same.The IJT team were also tasked with the FGFA programme from our side!

There are now 3 powerful outfits at work vying for our $$$$. The US,with its demand for a G-to-G for the antique F-16,which would be a travesty of a decision of the greatest magnitude.Then there is the French lobby for the Rafale also supported by the "R" co. Third is the Russian lobby for the FGFA,where we are not in the know of classified agreements,which perhaps link this deal with other critical defence programmes.Remember that S-400s,at least another Akula,BMos-L and Hyper,MKI upgrades,etc. are all in the pipeline.What is evident to everyone though is that without a stealth fighter,for which we've already paid some hard cash in a down payment for the FGFA,China will overtake us come 2020 and if it hands over-as it expected stealth birds to Pak,we will be sorely pushed to defeat them in the air.

The dark horse is the Gripen-for the SE req.,if sanity prevails and the F-16 is respectfully shown the door.Ultimately,the GOI has to shell out at least $10B for the IAF's several expectations and the demands post-Doklam from the IA will also be huge.The IN have also released RFIs for their most critical requirements,subs and helos.Both these deals together ,along with torpedoes,anti-ship missiles,B-8 SAMs,etc.,will cost at least $20B+! The surest way in augmenting the numbers is pursuing the LCA at war speed,even if need be with a firang partner/s,so that the hard cash saved could go into the best future fighter for the next two decades.That bird can only be the FGFA/SU-57.If one looks at the commonality of weapons,etc. for the 272+ MKIs,MIG-29UG and FGFA,it would be far easier integrating the existing and planned variants of BMos,etc. with the bird. The Rafale in any case cannot carry BMos in current form which the MKI can.It will take some time before BMos-L is developed and even then the Rafale may be able to carry just one against the MKI's 3.There is definite argument that if the IAF want extra birds capable of excellent strike
requirements,then what is inferior about the much cheaper MKI?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Bharadwaj » 26 Aug 2017 18:11

Perhaps the IAF reckons the rafale/spectra/meteor combo guarantees superiority over the j-20.... Shaping/internal carriage may not be the key to stealth. Both the su-57 and j-20 show production qualities that may contribute to a greater rcs than the shaping suggests. I hope the decision is made quickly one way or the other.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 26 Aug 2017 18:13

Bharadwaj wrote:Shaping/internal carriage may not be the key to stealth.


Perhaps that is why the Dassault Neuron lacks a weapons bay and any detailed attention to "shaping" in achieving low observability. :roll:

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Bharadwaj » 26 Aug 2017 18:21

brar_w wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:Shaping/internal carriage may not be the key to stealth.


Perhaps that is why the Dassault Neuron lacks a weapons bay and any detailed attention to "shaping" in achieving low observability.


Thanks for the sarcasm... There is no need for it. I was just trying to guess why the IAF seems reluctant to sign up for the fgfa.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 26 Aug 2017 18:27

The IAF / MOD is not reluctant but cautious since b/w the two there is a mature, developed, and combat proven platform on one end and a developmental program with test articles on another. The FGFA is a Su-57 with India specific changes incorporated. The PAKFA program that will eventually lead to Low rate serial production and delivery to front line squadrons of the RuAF is currently testing prototypes so from a maturity perspective has some work to do.

This before we know every little detail on what the IAF wants in its variant and how long designing, developing and testing those would take. The timelines do not align for a direct comparison. The FGFA is very much a mid to late 2020s platform whereas the IAF expected to get the Rafale by now if not earlier (had the process not dragged on and on and on).

The IAF did not select the Rafale because it deemed as a lack of LO shaping, materials, or internal weapons and fuel carriage to be insignificant as far as LO is concerned (look at AMCA and Ghatak drawings). They selected it because given its requirements, and the aircraft it evaluated, it was the best performing for its needs.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Bharadwaj » 26 Aug 2017 18:43

brar_w wrote:The IAF / MOD is not reluctant but cautious since b/w the two there is a mature, developed, and combat proven platform on one end and a developmental program with test articles on another. The FGFA is a Su-57 with India specific changes incorporated. The PAKFA program that will eventually lead to Low rate serial production and delivery to front line squadrons of the RuAF is currently testing prototypes so from a maturity perspective has some work to do.

This before we know every little detail on what the IAF wants in its variant and how long designing, developing and testing those would take. The timelines do not align for a direct comparison. The FGFA is very much a mid to late 2020s platform whereas the IAF expected to get the Rafale by now if not earlier (had the process not dragged on and on and on).

The IAF did not select the Rafale because it deemed as a lack of LO shaping, materials, or internal weapons and fuel carriage to be insignificant as far as LO is concerned (look at AMCA and Ghatak drawings). They selected it because given its requirements, and the aircraft it evaluated, it was the best performing for its needs.


I was talking about stealth in a relative sense.... Both the su-57 and j-20 do not appear to have the level of external finishing that has a significant role in the rcs of an aircraft. My reference to the rafale here is purely on account of the reporting that it is now a choice of another 36 aircraft vs the fgfa. I have always felt the fgfa is crucial as it is the true successor in capability to the su-30. I am just terribly perplexed as to why there seems to be no urgency in closing the deal despite a green light from the committee/panel that was looking into it.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 29 Aug 2017 11:37

From Air International Issue some snippets on PAK-FA/Su-57 Program from Piotr Butowski

Image

Image

On 2nd Stage Engine


The first demonstrator of the izdeliye 30 engine ran in a ground testbed on November 11, 2016. It is still claimed that flight trials of the engine will begin in 2017.

The izdeliye 30 is a clean-sheet design intended to offer increased thrust of 16–17 tonnes compared to 14.5 tonnes today, to
be lighter, and have fewer parts and lower operating costs. Stealth features are to be introduced. The engine’s cold section will
have a three-stage compressor (instead of four as in the current 117 engine) and a single-stage turbine; the hot section (engine
core) will have a five-stage compressor (instead of a nine-stage one) and a single stage turbine.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 29 Aug 2017 11:42

Indranil , what is the implication of New Engine having lower stages will it lead to shorter size , lesser weight ,How does it affect engine performance compared to engine having more stages ?

The engine’s cold section will have a three-stage compressor (instead of four as in the current 117 engine) and a single-stage turbine; the hot section (engine core) will have a five-stage compressor (instead of a nine-stage one) and a single stage turbine

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 29 Aug 2017 21:06

Tx.Austin.Intriguing 101KS-O sensor which I enquired about details unknown.Since there are two above and below,missile detection?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby SaiK » 30 Aug 2017 02:09

Wiki has a reference for the production variant of the engine as "Butowski 2013, p. 79 izdeliye 30". Does anyone has details of this reference or other specifications?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Philip » 31 Aug 2017 11:23

Russia’s Defense Ministry to sign contract for 5th-generation fighter jets in 2018
Military & Defense August 30, 17:25 UTC+3
The fighter jets are expected to be dispatched to the troops in 2019

MOSCOW, August 30. /TASS/. Russia’s Defense Ministry expects to sign a contract for a pilot batch of fifth-generation Su-57 fighter jets next year and troops should receive these cutting-edge aircraft in 2019, Deputy Defense Minister Yuri Borisov said on Wednesday.
The deputy defense minister made this statement at a press conference devoted to the results of the Army-2017 international military and technical forum.
"The forum’s visitors displayed great interest in the latest Russian aircraft, including Su-34 and Su-35 planes, and also the cutting-edge fifth-generation fighter jet which has been named as the Su-57," the deputy defense minister said.

READ ALSO
Russian defense contractor to supply 12 fifth-generation fighters in pre-production batch
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Russia tests sixth-generation fighter elements on fifth-generation jet

"We are now considering signing a contract for the delivery of a pilot batch of these fighter jets in 2018 with their dispatch to the troops in 2019," he said.
The Su-57 (PAK FA) took to the skies for the first time in 2010. As was reported earlier, the experimental design work on the cutting-edge fighter jet should be completed in 2019 and its deliveries to the troops should begin at that time. As United Aircraft Corporation CEO Yuri Slyusar said, the pre-production batch will consist of 12 such planes.
Russian Aerospace Force Commander-in-Chief Viktor Bondarev said earlier that the deliveries of fifth-generation fighter jets to aviation units would begin from 2018.
The Army-2017 international military and technical forum was held in Kubinka outside Moscow on August 22-27.

http://tass.com/defense/962787

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby JayS » 31 Aug 2017 11:58

Bharadwaj wrote:Perhaps the IAF reckons the rafale/spectra/meteor combo guarantees superiority over the j-20.... Shaping/internal carriage may not be the key to stealth. Both the su-57 and j-20 show production qualities that may contribute to a greater rcs than the shaping suggests. I hope the decision is made quickly one way or the other.


Contribution of shaping is like 90% to the overall stealth. That's why they say you cannot add stealth to existing design, you have to design for stealth from scratch. While its very much possible that due to lack of quality control, the production Su-57 and J20 may end up with significantly increased RCS, they would still have upper hand vis-à-vis a non-stealthy design.

I think the apprehension of IAF is not due to whether PAKFA will be more or less stealthy, but rather the lack of faith in Russians to deliver on their promises, particularly when IAF was kept two hands away from any significant details of the project. We have been hearing how IAF had no access to the prototype at all, when we are suppose to co-develop FGFA. There was little sharing on the project status. I hear from a birdie that only recently IAF started getting some real access to the project (Take FWIW). IAF wants some significant changes for FGFA and obviously IAF cannot just rely on Russians word. Add to that PAKFA has been delayed significantly and the engine is still not ready.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby JayS » 31 Aug 2017 12:00

Austin wrote:Indranil , what is the implication of New Engine having lower stages will it lead to shorter size , lesser weight ,How does it affect engine performance compared to engine having more stages ?

The engine’s cold section will have a three-stage compressor (instead of four as in the current 117 engine) and a single-stage turbine; the hot section (engine core) will have a five-stage compressor (instead of a nine-stage one) and a single stage turbine


Yes, lighter, shorter, better T/W ratio. This I-30 engine claims to have 11+ T:W IIRC, which is close to what F135 offers.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 31 Aug 2017 12:10

The T:W ratio should be higher than 11 as 117 the current engine as T:W ratio of 10.5:1

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 31 Aug 2017 12:15

JayS wrote:I think the apprehension of IAF is not due to whether PAKFA will be more or less stealthy, but rather the lack of faith in Russians to deliver on their promises, particularly when IAF was kept two hands away from any significant details of the project. We have been hearing how IAF had no access to the prototype at all, when we are suppose to co-develop FGFA. There was little sharing on the project status. I hear from a birdie that only recently IAF started getting some real access to the project (Take FWIW). IAF wants some significant changes for FGFA and obviously IAF cannot just rely on Russians word. Add to that PAKFA has been delayed significantly and the engine is still not ready.


The IAF does not have to be apprehensive at all because the mandate of IAF team under Air Marshal was to vet on IAF needs and technical aspect and cleared the project just recently atleast the technical aspect , Obviously there is tons of data these team went through before clearing it and something just they would have access to , There would be still discussion going on at the financial aspect but thats another game.

India should co-produce stealth fighter with Russia, says top panel

“We were given a task and we have submitted our report to the government. That’s all I can tell you,” Varthaman told HT, refusing to share the details of the report. The committee has pointed out that India would significantly gain from partnering with Russia through the transfer of cutting-edge technology, sources said. The four-member panel looked into various aspects of the project for around five months.


We took 5 years to sign on Rafale deal selected in 2011 only to get the financial aspect cleared !

The IAF wanted a customised MKI and during 90s no one ever though that was possible and we now see IAF having the best multirole fighter proved in many exercise in form of Su-30MKI.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby JayS » 31 Aug 2017 13:50

Austin wrote:The IAF does not have to be apprehensive at all because the mandate of IAF team under Air Marshal was to vet on IAF needs and technical aspect and cleared the project just recently atleast the technical aspect , Obviously there is tons of data these team went through before clearing it and something just they would have access to , There would be still discussion going on at the financial aspect but thats another game.

India should co-produce stealth fighter with Russia, says top panel

“We were given a task and we have submitted our report to the government. That’s all I can tell you,” Varthaman told HT, refusing to share the details of the report. The committee has pointed out that India would significantly gain from partnering with Russia through the transfer of cutting-edge technology, sources said. The four-member panel looked into various aspects of the project for around five months.


We took 5 years to sign on Rafale deal selected in 2011 only to get the financial aspect cleared !

The IAF wanted a customised MKI and during 90s no one ever though that was possible and we now see IAF having the best multirole fighter proved in many exercise in form of Su-30MKI.


How would that have stopped IAF from feeling apprehensive about Russian promises..? I heard only in last couple of years any real data sharing has started. This committee is also a recent phenomenon.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 31 Aug 2017 14:03

The Commitee was exactly formed for the same reason to look into Technical Aspect of IAF needs and to look into Transfer of Technology and Industrial aspect of the program , It was headed by an Air Marshal and not by MOD Babus after 5 months looking into entire aspect has given the go ahead.

IAF has long experience on MKI program and knows exactly what they need from Russian aircraft

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby VishalJ » 03 Sep 2017 23:48


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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 04 Sep 2017 00:04

The above video shows length at 19.7 mts, a full 2 mts shorter than the mki. Mtow as 33500kg and payload at 10 tons. 5500 km range with eft probably. My guess is internal fuel weight is about 8-10 tons. Empty weight could be as low as 15 tons. Would explain it's incredible acceleration.

But the video might be BS.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Rakesh » 08 Sep 2017 05:14

Russia pitches MiG-35 to India as FGFA project falters
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... ct-falters

According to an Indian defense official, “If the FGFA does not go through, Russia will have to be compensated, and this is the only contract left at the moment.:-o

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 08 Sep 2017 16:05

I don't think the PAKFA/FGFA project is going to be cancelled. At worst it will move to the right with the MOD allowing more time for the baseline offering to be more mature with series production and frontline squadron service with the RuAF. Anyhow if for some freak chance this does happen an alternative would be the Su-35, or better still new built Super - Su-30 MKIs and not the MiG-35s which aren't even in the same category and performance.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Vips » 08 Sep 2017 19:27

According to an Indian defense official, “If the FGFA does not go through, Russia will have to be compensated, and this is the only contract left at the moment.:-o


Why the hell should India compensate russia for Russia's failure to deliver to India? I know that India officials have gotten used to the charms of Lolita's and Natasha's, but this is absolutely the pits. It is India who should ask for damages from Russia and interest on the $$ we have paid in advance for the FGFA's. Russia should transfer a Squadron of SU35's or at least 4-6 Kilo Subs.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Austin » 10 Sep 2017 16:34

511

Image
Image
Image

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby sarang » 10 Sep 2017 18:50

:shock:

are those missiles or bombs?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Kakarat » 10 Sep 2017 19:07

sarang wrote::shock:

are those missiles or bombs?


External Fuel Tanks

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby sarang » 10 Sep 2017 19:16

seems very aerodynamic! are those supersonic capable?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Indranil » 10 Sep 2017 23:33

I think you meant pointed (not aerodynamic). Subsonic air tanks are not pointed, but aerodynamically most efficient for that regime. These tanks are supersonic.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Cosmo_R » 11 Sep 2017 03:35

Very stealthy those EFTs

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 11 Sep 2017 03:42

The point of the EFT's is not be stealthy but to extend the range either for ferry or for tactical advantage. The F-22 carries the same and jettisons its tanks along with the pylons to regain its signature to the most extent possible - https://theaviationist.com/wp-content/u ... ttison.jpg. There are plenty of missions where you need not be stealthy all the time but can do with extra range and/or time on station. One such mission is long range interception of bombers that is routinely performed by Russian and US interceptors during peacetime.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Indranil » 11 Sep 2017 04:14

Those tanks are huge. Most likely ferry tanks. Would love to know their capacity, but from eyeballing, I think they are above 3000 ltrs each.

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby Cosmo_R » 11 Sep 2017 04:18

^^^"EFT's is not be stealthy but to extend the range either for ferry or for tactical advantage"
Of course, but when one is touting, the PAK/FA as a 'stealthy a/c' with an effective/superior combat range, it hardly helps that you've got these beacons pinpointing you because they are extending your range.

If you want the tactical advantage of more fuel, you can get the 4G a/c like the F-16s/Rafales with a panoply of non conformal EFTs at a much lower price.

What is the point of showing a purportedly 5G a/c with EFTs? Ability to leave Florida in a hurry?

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Re: PAK-FA and FGFA Thread - June 2014

Postby brar_w » 11 Sep 2017 05:10

I think you may need to consult the air-forces around the world that have developed or are in the process of developing CONEMP for small, medium to large 5th generation fighter fleets. :)


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