Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

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mody
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby mody » 29 Mar 2020 18:25

@brar_w and @KaranM, guys I know everyone is in lockdown and has plenty of time on hand, but this is the Su-30MKI thread.
Your discussion though good, is OT.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rahul M » 29 Mar 2020 18:53

I will move it to the international aero thread.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 02 Apr 2020 22:27

Is the report in another site true about SU-30MKI upgrades with Irbis-E " stealth radars",new engines,and LR AAMs from 200 to 400 km, BMos, etc.,etc. ,on offer another huge numbe,for real? That is that there is some genuine measure of truth in it,a plan at least on paper?

HAL is now completing the MKI orders on hand.Last year we were told that another batch of 12+ to replacd attritions was on,but this report indicates that another 10 sqds. at least are planned.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 02 Apr 2020 23:02

Philip wrote:Is the report in another site true about SU-30MKI upgrades with Irbis-E " stealth radars",new engines,and LR AAMs from 200 to 400 km, BMos, etc.,etc. ,on offer another huge numbe,for real? That is that there is some genuine measure of truth in it,a plan at least on paper?

HAL is now completing the MKI orders on hand.Last year we were told that another batch of 12+ to replacd attritions was on,but this report indicates that another 10 sqds. at least are planned.

HVT clarified on Twitter that there is no plan envisaged to upgrade the MKI's engines. Radar and other upgrades are planned.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 02 Apr 2020 23:19

Tx.Nachi.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Indranil » 03 Apr 2020 10:42

I would love for the Su30s to get some wet hardpoints. Not to create more range, but to serve as refueling tankers which can be much more survivable near our hotly contested borders.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby vishvak » 03 Apr 2020 11:00

Indranil wrote:I would love for the Su30s to get some wet hardpoints. Not to create more range, but to serve as refueling tankers which can be much more survivable near our hotly contested borders.

If PESA are good enough or equal in range to Irbis-E stealth radars then perhaps better to buy T-50 stealth fighter jets, considering radars are on costlier side of over all purchase. Then use older Su-30s for refuelling as quoted.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 03 Apr 2020 23:53

Irbis-E is also a PESA. Not sure how well it will run in the MKI without new engines. Its peak power is supposedly 20kW and average of 5kW compared to 8kW peak and 2kW average of the Bars. That will draw more power and require more cooling. Perhaps more than the AL-31's can handle.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Sumeet » 04 Apr 2020 01:30

Man this sucks in 2020+ time frame we will be installing a PESA radar on our frontline fighter.

We should have worked with Israel or someone to accelerate our own Uttam AESA program or we can still accelerate our AESA and install it in MKI as well in few years from now.

We should aim for max commonality between MWF, Super-30 and AMCA

Only things we need from Russia for Super-30:
Saturn AL-41F1S engine of Su-35
OLS-35 IRST sensor
RCS reduction measures
Select AA/AG weapons

India's indigenous:
Glass Cockpit Redesign
Multi Sensor Data fusion
New Processors
Scaled up Uttam AESA Radar
EW (Some upgrade/variant of D-29)
Software Defined Datalink
SATCOM
IFF
Missiles(AA/AG) - Astra Mk1, Astra Mk2, Astra SFDR, Sudarshan, NGARM, SAAW, Nirbhay ALCM, Brahmos-A, ASRAAM/Astra CCM

From Israel:
Spice PGM
I-Derby ER
Latest HMD from Elbit Systems
Litening 5 TP

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JTull » 04 Apr 2020 13:58

SB 435 pic has appeared with new RWR (as pointed by Angad). When did the roll out start?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 04 Apr 2020 19:30

Same R118 RWR as in 2017
https://twitter.com/rajatpTOI/status/93 ... 41/photo/1

New vs Tarang ok. Not new per se.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 05 Apr 2020 21:09

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 93824?s=20 ---> Just In: Hindustan Aeronautics Limited announces that it has completed production of all 222 Su-30MKI contracted to it by the IAF and is now expecting a few more additional orders.

https://twitter.com/FuturisingIN/status ... 96000?s=20 ---> 272?

https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/statu ... 69153?s=20 ---> Another 50 were delivered directly by Russia (no HAL involvement).

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 05 Apr 2020 21:22

https://twitter.com/DefenceDecode/statu ... 33993?s=20 ---> With hypersonic missiles, advanced radars, Su-30MKIs to remain the backbone of the IAF. HAL had requested the approval of MoD for assembling 72 Su-30MKI jets at its Nashik facility. The total order was for the project was around $5 billion or $70 million/unit.

Image

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 05:29


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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2020 05:36


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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cybaru » 07 Apr 2020 08:05

If there are going to be new orders, order them without the radar and install our own uttam radar or 2052. Plus order with new things that are planned for super-30 version. So the expense to replace is not there.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 07 Apr 2020 12:15

So IAF now has 272-9 =263 SU 30 MKI. 12 to be produced of over the next year. Makes sense to order more upgraded Su 30, 36 Rafales, ramp up Lca Tejas production and scrap the MRCA.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_Sharma » 09 Apr 2020 06:54

TWITTER

@Aerodynamic111 wrote:

Local tech to upgrade the Super Sukhoi?

AESA RADAR: NIIP N011M Bars radar, which is a PESA system will be replaced by a derivative of the N036 X-Band AESA, Uttam AESA can be scaled up or down depending on antenna size requirements. Uttam AESA radar for Su-30 will require a +larger bigger antenna which packs more T/R modules to take advantage of bigger space of the frontal nose cone of the Su-30MKI.

New Mission Computer: The Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Mission Computer cum Display Processor-MC-486 and DP-30MK dvlpd by India’s very own DARE in 1998. The 32-bit mission computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight mngmnt, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management +and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, ADA language was adopted for the mission computer’s software. Acc. to DARE it already has developed Advanced computers for nxt-gen aircraft and one developed for Tejas Mk1 and Mk2

+which are PowerPC based computing architecture which is a 64-bit which is a big improvement in processing power.
Upgraded Su-30MKI Cockpit: India’s HAL already showcased newly upgraded cockpit which now features, 2 high-resolution LCDs with a multifunction control panel with +a wide 20°x30° field of view head-up display which brings it at par with the Cockpit of the Sukhoi Su-35. Samtel/DARE will develop new high-resolution LCDs.

Radar warning receiver (RWR): Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with DARE developed Tarang-Mk2 RWR + HADF.

+DARE now has developed all digital RWR christened ‘Dhruti’ for the Su-30MKI fleet, based on its experience on D-29 RWR developed for the Mig-29UPG fleet.

Self-Protection Jammer Pods: Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with Russian SAP-518 pods which due to poor performance was +supplemented with Israeli Elta EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer pods, which now have been offered with wideband EL/L-8222WB pods. DARE also has developed DARE’s HBJ which has begun dummy trials in 2019.
IRST: IAF’s Su-30MKI fleet is equipped with Russian OLS-30 IRST
+which soon will be replaced by India’s BEL developed IRST which will be far more advanced and will be tuned to detect stealth aircraft at long range.

INCOM: Su-30MKI fleet are equipped with HAL developed Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A which will be replaced by +indigenous SDRs which are being developed by WESEE jointly with BEL for all fighter jets in the IAF fleet. These SDRs will be jam-resistant with secure features.

Radio Altimeter: HAL developed RAM-1701 is equipped on the Su-30MKI fleet which likely will be replaced likely by

+ more advanced RAM-2700A which was developed for Jaguar and LCA-Tejas fleet. They are more countless system which can be replaced by Indian made one

https://twitter.com/Aerodynamic111/stat ... 46597?s=19

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 09 Apr 2020 06:59

Several mistakes in the above.
Dhruti is an independent program, not a D-29 derivative.
Su-30s have the Polyot comms and datalink set.
SAP-518 was not "replaced" by EL/L-8222 because of "poor performance". Former remains in service. Latter was interim fit and retained for a while to experiment with a lighter pod. Not found ideal either.
AESA is not confirmed for the Su-30 yet. It could be a derivative of the N035E Irbis-E instead.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby brar_w » 09 Apr 2020 07:34

When are these upgrades expected to begin?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 09 Apr 2020 10:01

That entire post is someone's wishlist of their ideal Su-30 upgrade. Some of the techs mentioned there are still under development and not likely to be available for a possible Super-30 upgrade in the short term. The biggest part is the radar. Even the LCA sized Uttam is still in development phase. Upscaling and integrating it with the MKI will be a long process. We are unlikely to see it when the Irbis exists.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 09 Apr 2020 11:09

nachiket wrote:Irbis-E is also a PESA. Not sure how well it will run in the MKI without new engines. Its peak power is supposedly 20kW and average of 5kW compared to 8kW peak and 2kW average of the Bars. That will draw more power and require more cooling. Perhaps more than the AL-31's can handle.

I believe that extra kw was the result of a new twt that they couldn't get going for the bars when the MKI was being birthed. However they succeeded by the time the irbis/su35 came along. As such the mki was to be first candidate and it always had the 31s. so I guess an irbis type might well work without engine change. Although honestly I was hoping for a more comprehensive upgrade along with efts.

Also I don't believe it'll be the vanilla irbis. Iirc Igorr, remember him?, had translated a Russian source saying that they estimate a newer bars to match the irbis. So I think it'll be a bars derivative with better yet and perhaps the steering mechanism from the irbis, which is supposed to be lighter.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby karan_mc » 16 Apr 2020 12:46

Working on Su-30MKI Tail numbers details since now Production order is completed .

Doing visual sampling of images then matching with Tail numbers

I try to spot first Tail number in the series with the highest in the series ex SB101 to SB195

if any one has seen higher Tail numbers in the series SB3XX and SB4XX please let me know ,even in older ones. This list is of only 226 Su-30s, 46 more to go

TAIL NUMBERS

SB001 TO SB018 Irkut 18
SB019 TO SB028 Irkut 10
SB029 TO SB040 Irkut 12
SB041 TO SB050 Irkut 10
SB101 TO SB195 HAL 96
SB200 TO SB218 HAL 19
SB301 TO SB324 HAL 25
SB401 TO SB435 HAL 36

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 16 Apr 2020 13:02

Production order is not complete another 12 are being made in FY20-21

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JTull » 16 Apr 2020 14:39

karan_mc wrote:Working on Su-30MKI Tail numbers details since now Production order is completed .

Doing visual sampling of images then matching with Tail numbers

I try to spot first Tail number in the series with the highest in the series ex SB101 to SB195

if any one has seen higher Tail numbers in the series SB3XX and SB4XX please let me know ,even in older ones. This list is of only 226 Su-30s, 46 more to go

TAIL NUMBERS

SB001 TO SB018 Irkut 18
SB019 TO SB028 Irkut 10
SB029 TO SB040 Irkut 12
SB041 TO SB050 Irkut 10
SB101 TO SB195 HAL 96 x95
SB200 TO SB218 HAL 19
SB301 TO SB324 HAL 25 x24
SB401 TO SB435 HAL 36 x35

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Gyan » 16 Apr 2020 17:05

Are we thinking of SATCOMs, Towed Decoys & DIRCMs on Sukhois?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shaun » 16 Apr 2020 18:47

More about Israeli Elta EL/L-8222 Airborne Self Protection Jammer pods

ACaP is an off-the-shelf electronic countermeasure (ECM) system, originally developed by ELTA (EL / L-8212 and EL / L-8222) in collaboration with ITT Exelis, for manufacturing, technical support and logistics in the US.

Image

Two versions of ACaP

There are two versions of ACaP . Both versions have electronics and technology of one generation. The main difference lies in the features of the mechanical design.

The oval ACaP is an oval version of the EL / L 8212 system designed for aircraft with a relatively low effective reflective surface (RCS).

Square ACaP is a square version of the EL / L 8222 system designed for aircraft with relatively higher RCS. Square ACaP has the ability to increase the effective radiation power (ERP) by combining transmitters.

PHYSICAL CHARACTERISTICS

Power supply : 115 V of alternating current, 400 Hz, 3 phases; 28 V of a direct current source on MIL-STD-704
Dimensions : approx. 8ft L x 9in H x 7in W / (2438.4 L x 228.6 H x 177.8 W) mm
Weight : about 210 kg
Cooling : ambient air
Interfaces : communication planning data for a radar receiver (RWR) and for jamming radar according to MIL-STD-1553B
Certification : system certified for various tactical American aircraft
Maintainability : built-in testing system that provides power-on control, continuous and operator-initiated monitoring, fault and fault detection

Key Features of the ACaP Suspension System
> Based on digital radio frequency storage (DRFM) > Light weight > Reliability > Tested in combat
> Electronic self-defense system > Improved features
> Handling multiple outgoing threats > Certified for various US tactical aircraft

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby tsarkar » 16 Apr 2020 18:57

karan_mc wrote:Working on Su-30MKI Tail numbers details since now Production order is completed .

Doing visual sampling of images then matching with Tail numbers

I try to spot first Tail number in the series with the highest in the series ex SB101 to SB195

if any one has seen higher Tail numbers in the series SB3XX and SB4XX please let me know ,even in older ones. This list is of only 226 Su-30s, 46 more to go

TAIL NUMBERS

SB001 TO SB018 Irkut 18
SB019 TO SB028 Irkut 10
SB029 TO SB040 Irkut 12
SB041 TO SB050 Irkut 10
SB101 TO SB195 HAL 96
SB200 TO SB218 HAL 19
SB301 TO SB324 HAL 25
SB401 TO SB435 HAL 36


Not a meaningful exercise. Numbers are randomly changed often. See my earlier post on this topic.

SB058
Image
SB060
Image
SB065
Image

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 19 Apr 2020 00:40


Cain Marko
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 19 Apr 2020 07:16

In my eyes - this is the best looking flanker and definitely amongst the most beautiful fighters ever. Have to give credit to the russkies - all around, any angle, the flanker and the 57 look great. French fillies are nice too and the Americans are TFTA personified. But the flanker is gorgeous even more than the fulcrum...

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 19 Apr 2020 11:43

What a photo!

Always love these type of 'hatke' photos..

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/sajaniaf/status/1251132284314378242?s=20 ---> Maritime missions are fun!!

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby fanne » 19 Apr 2020 18:43

is it fair to say that this maritime plane had only 1 pilot?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 19 Apr 2020 19:16

I dont think that is allowed, the 2nd Pilot will not be visible from that angle.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 19 Apr 2020 20:21

Zoom the image. The outline of the 2nd pilot is visible

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby srin » 19 Apr 2020 21:46

Is the MKI single pilot capable or is the second pilot mandatory?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby sanjaykumar » 19 Apr 2020 23:12

It's a fake, the Sukhoi casts no shadow/reflection on the water.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2020 03:19

sanjaykumar wrote:It's a fake, the Sukhoi casts no shadow/reflection on the water.

The shadow is that of the oil rig.

It is a real picture from a retired Rambha pilot who flew then President Pratibha Patel on her first Su-30 mission.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2020 03:20

srin wrote:Is the MKI single pilot capable or is the second pilot mandatory?

The Rmabha can certainly be piloted by a single pilot.

However in the IAF doctrine, the Rambha is manned by a crew of two - pilot and WSO.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 20 Apr 2020 11:53

Rakesh wrote: The shadow is that of the oil rig. It is a real picture from a retired Rambha pilot who flew then President Pratibha Patel on her first Su-30 mission.


Her first? has she had multiple flights?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 20 Apr 2020 18:19

It was her first flight. And as far as I know, it was her one and only flight.


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