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Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Paul » 14 Feb 2017 15:56

In 1989 the base commander for an IAF base in Hyderabad sent his son in an AN32 to tirupati to file his application as he had missed the application deadline in Hyderabad.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 16:08

Irkut had made a presentation at Aero India yesterday on Su-30MKI program for IAF , The Presentation in English is available in pdf

Su-30MKI Program - The joint success of Russia and India

http://eng.irkut.com/upload/Su-30MKI_eng.pdf

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 17:45

Range

Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 17:48

Su-30MKI by supermaneuverability has the added advantage of close air combat - test pilot
02.14.2017 13:37:18

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=441704

Moscow. The 14th of February. Interfax-AVN - An important advantage of fighter Su-30MKI combat aircraft over the other is maneuverability, "Interfax-AVN" on Tuesday, leading Test Pilot Corporation "Irkut", honored test pilot, Hero of Russia Vyacheslav Averyanov.

"Provides superior maneuverability in close combat it allows the use of weapons faster, improves safety." - V.Averyanov said.


He called untenable assertion that melee thing of the past. "From a fighter requires the ability to lead and the distal and proximal dogfight If you are weak in some kind of battle, it is his enemy and you will be imposed." - V.Averyanov said.

According to him, the scenario specific combat situation depends on many factors. For example, electronic warfare agents may disrupt the use of large rockets and medium-range missiles. In this situation, close combat as a way to solve the problem before the fighter becomes inevitable.

Thus he Su-30MKI fighters, being in the mode of super-maneuverability, capable of performing launches missiles at the enemy. "Yes, we have carried out launches of missiles" air-to-air "mode on super maneuverability" - V.Averyanov said.

He noted that all fighters have a super-maneuverability, created on the basis of the Su-30MKI fighters, including Su-30cm.

According V.Averyanova only supermaneuverability dignity Su-30MKI is not exhausted. This aircraft is one of the first in the world to have onboard radar with a phased antenna array that can simultaneously detect, track and attack a large number of targets.

An important advantage of the Su-30MKI V.Averyanov called a crew of two pilots. ". It is definitely an advantage in any case, the two performing combat tasks better than one", - he said. The Su-30MKI is very large by the standards of a fighter, range and, accordingly, the duration of the flight. In the long flight of the second member of the crew - is a big help. Especially when you have to fly in difficult conditions and on remote countryside - the sea, the desert, polar ice, said the test pilot.

"That is why the two-seat fighter Su-30MKI purchase extended coastal and country looks logical choice and Su-30cm naval aviation of the Russian Navy." - V.Averyanov said.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 17:50

In India from Russian components built around 300 engines for Su-30MKI - UEC
02/14/2017 9:00:00

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=441658
Bangalore. The 14th of February. Interfax - India has produced approximately 300 engines, assembled from components for Russian fighter Su-30MKI fighters, reported in the United Engine Corporation (UEC).

"Today, India produced about 300 engines of technological units set Ufa PJSC" UMPO "(included in the ODK) in different phases of readiness", - informed "Interfax" in the DCS Tuesday.

Press officer said that the program of licensed production of Russian engine AL-31FP is implemented in the department of the corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Koraput.

"Currently, all phases of the licensed production of AL-31FP mastered the Indian side of the total operating time in service in India engine AL-31FP reaches about 300 thousand hours.", - Reported in the corporation at the opening on Tuesday, the exhibition "Aero India - 2017" (14 -18th of Febuary).

They stated that the same Department of Indian corporations also have mastered and repair these engines.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JayS » 14 Feb 2017 18:27

Austin wrote:In India from Russian components built around 300 engines for Su-30MKI - UEC
02/14/2017 9:00:00

http://militarynews.ru/story.asp?rid=1&nid=441658
Bangalore. The 14th of February. Interfax - India has produced approximately 300 engines, assembled from components for Russian fighter Su-30MKI fighters, reported in the United Engine Corporation (UEC).

"Today, India produced about 300 engines of technological units set Ufa PJSC" UMPO "(included in the ODK) in different phases of readiness", - informed "Interfax" in the DCS Tuesday.

Press officer said that the program of licensed production of Russian engine AL-31FP is implemented in the department of the corporation Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Koraput.

"Currently, all phases of the licensed production of AL-31FP mastered the Indian side of the total operating time in service in India engine AL-31FP reaches about 300 thousand hours.", - Reported in the corporation at the opening on Tuesday, the exhibition "Aero India - 2017" (14 -18th of Febuary).

They stated that the same Department of Indian corporations also have mastered and repair these engines.


I hope IAF and HAL are collective all sorts of data on this engine from those operating hours. That's data is more costly that the engine itself. Would help us big time in our own engine programs.

Likewise for Airframe data. Does IAF/HAL has any dedicated program for life data collection on our existing jets..?? Any info available on this..??

UASF is collecting such data for decades and its enabling them to improve design capabilities. Operational life data is invaluable and its importance cannot be overemphasized.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby tsarkar » 14 Feb 2017 18:34

Paging Karan M

If you recollect my earlier mentioning Su-30 MKI using Litening as EO sights, the photos in Irkut ppt substantiate it.

Both Su-30MKI are flying clean in A2A configuration carrying ACMI pods to record missile firing & kills and Litening as EO sight because its range and resolution is much better than Russian OLS.

Tejas too doesnt need IRST because of Litening.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Zynda » 14 Feb 2017 18:38

From what I have heard, IAF doesn't seem to record airframe data like USAF. I have heard at least on two occasions that we had to run to the Russians, who charged us a bomb for mission spectrum data for MiGs along with other info. Note: At least on one of the above occasions, the pilots were met informally and briefed about the importance of such data. The pilots were enthusiastic to help but obviously it had to be escalated up the ladder for official approval. The approval never came.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 14 Feb 2017 19:55

JayS wrote:
UASF is collecting such data for decades and its enabling them to improve design capabilities. Operational life data is invaluable and its importance cannot be overemphasized.

Please explain exactly what the US collects
1. If it is built-in stress sensors then no I don't think we have any
2. Flight data recorders will record many details of the flight regime
3. Pilot records after each flight are mandatory and comprehensive
4. Newer aircraft with FBW have control laws that plan the best flight regime with the least airframe stress. The C-17 has that. That means if the pilots feels he has the altitude and power to do a spectacular turn - the software will tell him "Ok baba no need for that, cool off and take it izzy"

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby brar_w » 14 Feb 2017 20:14

The US Navy uses an upgraded Inflight Engine Condition Monitoring System(IECMS) for their Super Hornets and F414's. It is an upgraded version of what they used on the F404's. Some snippets from an IEEE article on it -

The F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Figure 1, is designed with state-of-the-art systems to meet the stringent U.S. Navy strike fighter requirements. Among these systems are the new higher thrust F414 engine and its Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC), shown in Figure 2, which are important elements of the advanced IECMS specified in Reference 2. The advanced IECMS continuously monitors the health of the F414 engine, provides real-time displays of engine parameters and cautions/advisories/warnings for the pilot, and records engine-related and flight data for post-flight maintenance, troubleshooting, life usage analysis, trending, and parts life tracking. IECMS consists of diagnostic algorithms, engine control system computer (FADEC) and sensors, ground station equipment, and airframe computers and displays to process and report engine health real-time to the pilot and post-flight to the maintenance crew. The advanced IECMS components are shown in Figure 3 and described further in the following paragraphs: operational experience, as shown in Figure 4. In addition to adding new functions such as chip detection and Anti-Ice System checks, many new sub-functions were added to improve the engine/control diagnostic and troubleshooting capabilities. Examples include expanded engine data recordings for engine mission profile life analyses, engine/control failure reporting, and ground-based trend analysis. Boeing integrated this logic into the aircraft avionics/software architecture and developed the necessary software coding for use in the airborne computers

Improved Monitoring Hardware Installation and Signal Processing


F414 fan and compressor vibrations are monitored using a single accelerometer located on the compressor midframe similar to that on the F404. However, the accelerometer shielding is improved and the signal is filtered to the fan rotational frequency (N1), then after 1.6 seconds, to the compressor rotational frequency (N2). Rotational imbalances in the fan (low pressure) and core (high pressure) rotors are monitored using one-per rev signals. Excessive vibrations in either fan or core are reliably reported using two levels. If high vibrations should occur, the higher threshold levels would set a cockpit caution in the E/F to alert the pilot to serious damage which could lead to engine shutdown, as well as setting a maintenance code. The lower vibration thresholds notify only the maintenance crew of a vibration exceedance condition requiring troubleshooting.

Memory Unit Recording


E/F engine data recordings on the digital Memory Unit (MU) have been significantly expanded to improve maintenance diagnostic and troubleshooting, trending, parts life tracking, and life usage analyses. It is estimated that up to 117, 000 16-bit words (or about 23% of the total MU memory available) of engine-related data are recorded each flight on the E/F compared to about 32, 000 words for the C/D aircraft. This represents a 365% increase. Engine recordings consist of engine event records, take-off thrust/trend records, aircrew record data, expanded Life Used Indices (LUI) record, a new engine mission profile record, and a new engine/control failures record. Each of these recordings are described below:

Event Records—Engine, aircraft, and flight parameters are automatically recorded each flight for any detected engine events/exceedances. These records consist of 15 seconds of pre-event, the event, and 15 seconds of post-event data at a 10Hz rate.

Takeoff Thrust/Trend Records-Engine take-off thrust/trend data are recorded each flight consisting of 5 seconds pre-and 5 seconds post-event for post-flight use by the ground station to assess engine health over an extended number of flights.

Aircrew Records—Aircrew record allows the crew to manually initiate an engine event record whenever engine operation appears atypical but event thresholds are not exceeded. These records are the same as the Event Records with 15 seconds data recorded prior to and following the aircrew pushing the “Record” button on the DDI. Data is captured at a 10hz rate.

Life Usage Records—IECMS tracks a number of Life Used Indices (LUI) continuously to quantify engine life usage in terms of engine stress and thermal cycles (rotor speeds, pressures, temperatures, and torques), and time at high power/high temp conditions. These LUI data are stored in the MC non-volatile memory and recorded in the MU twice per mission during the engine start and shutdown sequences. Nine matrices with 214 elements each were added to improve life tracking of F414 Full Thermal Cycles and Low/High Pressure Turbine Time at Temperature.

Engine Mission Profile Record—A new function was added to record engine mission profile data. This consists of important selected engine, aircraft, and flight parameters at a 1 Hz rate from engine start, take-off to landing, and up to final engine shutdown by IECMS to provide a comprehensive database for assessing flight profiles, and seVerify of engine operations.

Engine / Control Failures Record— Another new function was added to record engine/control system failure BIT data at 1 Hz wheneverFADEC detects a new fault. Associated engine Maintenance Status Panel (MSP) Codes and FADEC Fault Codes (FFC) for current flight and last previous flight are displayed in the cockpit and are recorded on the MU. The currently latched MSP codes are also displayed in the nose wheelwell Maintenance Status Panel. These maintenance data have proven valuable in assessing engine-related anomalies and determining corrective actions.

Engine Life Tracking

Engine Life Used Indices (LUI) data consists of engine parameter Low Cycle Fatigue (LCF) stress cycles, pressure cycles, thermal cycles, torque cycles, and operating times (engine run time, mission time, time at high power, and afterburner hours). These LUIs are computed continuously inflight and tracked by ground station software. Engine maintenance is performed as a function of the engine life consumed based on the seVerify of engine operation as measured by the LUI data. LUI data records which are accumulated over time are summarized in Figure 12.



Image

Image
Last edited by brar_w on 14 Feb 2017 20:40, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Zynda » 14 Feb 2017 20:17

Shiv, usually there are accelerometers placed at various locations inside the aircraft to record the in-service manoeuvres (via accelerations from which load factors or g-forces are derived) especially for the new type inducted during various mission types. From an engineering perspective, this is valuable data.

Folks like Tsarkar etc can verify this, but I have heard that Indian MiG-21 usage is slightly different (read harder) than what is done with Ruski AF. So having knowledge about how our boys typically fly over Indian skies can be useful.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 14 Feb 2017 21:06


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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JayS » 14 Feb 2017 21:35

shiv wrote:
JayS wrote:
UASF is collecting such data for decades and its enabling them to improve design capabilities. Operational life data is invaluable and its importance cannot be overemphasized.

Please explain exactly what the US collects
1. If it is built-in stress sensors then no I don't think we have any
2. Flight data recorders will record many details of the flight regime
3. Pilot records after each flight are mandatory and comprehensive
4. Newer aircraft with FBW have control laws that plan the best flight regime with the least airframe stress. The C-17 has that. That means if the pilots feels he has the altitude and power to do a spectacular turn - the software will tell him "Ok baba no need for that, cool off and take it izzy"


To start with really simple thing, collection of data regarding all the mission profile (Altitude, speed, thrust, G-loads etc) that each IAF jet has flown with associated load configurations. This would enable the designer for AMCA, for example, to make a realistic mission mix that is used for designing the Aircraft. A more realistic mission mix can make huge difference. As an example, by keeping track of all mission that that each Gripen flies and calculating life consumption for each of those missions, Swedish Airforce could increase life of RM12 by 30-40%. That is huge considering there is not even a bolt changed in the engine. Why this discrepancy in designed life and real life usage of airframe/engine..?? Because the design was done with a hypothetical mission mix which did not imitate real life properly.

I am sure IAF is logging this data. But question is whether they are archiving the data over the years in usable format or not. Flight data recorder had a lot of data but you need to filter that and archive in neat format so it can be usable later. And if they do, is HAL/ADA using that data or not (I know one instance where HAL is doing this - HPT blade Thermal Barrier Coating, and this in all probability will lead to a significant life extension of AL-31FP, if all goes as expected. Last Aero India, there was seminar on this).

Similarly one can log all the inspection data for airframes during the maintenance and overhaul for all the airframes - no of cracks/defects seen on airframe, location, size, at how many hours of operation for critical components such as wing root joints engine mountings, weapons mounting points, bulkheads, wing spars. When you scrap parts, performing NDT and checking internal features for structural damage, residual life.

It could be dat from the health monitoring system related to engineering parameters such as temperature, pressure, stress, during various types of missions that you see in real life, which then can be compared with design values or simulation data to refine design methodology or even design philosophy.

You can think of many type of useful data. Based on importance and cost to acquire data, things can be planned. I would love to know what kind of data IAF/HAL/ADA are recording and archiving, if the info is there in public domain. Having this kind of data and experience is what differentiates between an seasoned OEM and a novice design team.

I am just giving one example to emphasize value of real life data and its implications on the design. If you see Composite part certification methodology, there was a handful of test dataset on composite materials acquired in 1970s during F/A18 program. If you use that data and design composite aircraft you would have to test the full scale airframe for 13 times the design life to get certification, or enforce significantly higher stress than the designed values for 2 life-times to reduce test time. Imagine that (for LCA with 3000hrs it would mean equivalent of 39000hrs testing at design load). Then USAF I think, working with an university updated the database with new data in 2000s which had better confidence levels. Now you can certify the same design with only 4 life time of testing or much lesser stress levels for 2 life-time testing. This is huge saving in the test time and huge improvement in design capability, as now your components could be much lighter for same designed load.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 14 Feb 2017 22:01

tsarkar, which ones, which, which. always interested in all things MKI. those litening pics are from nellis as i recall. gawsh amreekis and their pics.

my understanding is litening is used for A2G designation of griffin kits. there was a pic that was intriguing. it showed a su-30 launching a kh-29 in a slight dive , the angle made me suspect IAF was using the litening.

in a2a i think we have too few pods (till g4) for heavy duty dual tasking. that irkut pdf is so disappointing, all platitudes and no real news we can gawp over.
Last edited by Karan M on 14 Feb 2017 22:07, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 14 Feb 2017 22:07

yes those are nellis pics. su-30s took part in strike package, fighting red air and also attacking ground targets. they would have simulated A2G weaponry.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Vf6_vOND4gc/hqdefault.jpg

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 14 Feb 2017 22:21

JayS wrote:I am sure IAF is logging this data. But question is whether they are archiving the data over the years in usable format or not. Flight data recorder had a lot of data but you need to filter that and archive in neat format so it can be usable later. And if they do, is HAL/ADA using that data or not (I know one instance where HAL is doing this - HPT blade Thermal Barrier Coating, and this in all probability will lead to a significant life extension of AL-31FP, if all goes as expected. Last Aero India, there was seminar on this).
.

Don't know if this counts,..

My first post that started the "Flight Safety" thread in 2005. The database in question included all flight and servicing records of the aircraft
viewtopic.php?p=122314#p122314
I found out about "Flight Safety" when my cousin late Wg Cdr Suresh was director of Flt safety at HAL after his retirement from the Vayu Sena.

Although I did not realise it in those days of MSDOS and dBase, all the conversations I used to have with Suresh about computers and databases etc were related to his building a database of accidents to enable accident deatils to be compared with each other.

I found out only after I read Gp Capt Kapil Bhargava's obituary that Suresh was responsible for building up such a database initially. In those days I used to dabble with a little programming myself and had written a little program to diagnose the causes of pain in the abdomen. In conversations with Suresh about Flight Safety I always wondered if the algorithm I had used could be applied to accident investigation - because the methods used in accident investigation seemed so similar to the medical flow chart in diagnosis. In fact Gp Capt Kapil Bhargava had already applied his mind to this and gave me some books about expert systems. Anyhow the whole thing never went beyond that point.

Flight safety is a live and very real concern that affects the Air Force every minute of the day. But it is not something we ever speak about on this forum except in retrospect AFTER an accident has occurred.

Flight safety is all about avoiding or minimizing the ever present risk of accident.

I want to kick off this thread with an article scanned from Vayu Issue VII 2004 (a 1.85 MB pdf). I will also link other articles already present on BR on this subject to start off as a "basis" on which we enthusiasts can be better informed about how thse things are handled.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/Temp/vayu-fltsafety.pdf

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JayS » 14 Feb 2017 23:23

shiv wrote:Don't know if this counts,..

My first post that started the "Flight Safety" thread in 2005. The database in question included all flight and servicing records of the aircraft
viewtopic.php?p=122314#p122314


This would be helpful, no doubt. But in bits and pieces. Since the data would be sparse. It could help in improving design for some component which has systematic failure, for example. To be of real help in engineering design or manufacturing process improvement, one need a far more systematic data collection system. I am am suggesting to our company management as well to have this kind of data collection so that our design philosophy can change from Nominal design to Design for Manufacturing.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2017 00:11

Jay - see this. Part of what you want.
DRDO has a proposal to integrate HUMS into MC function.
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... /4260/4470

• System Status Reporting: This subsystem monitors the status of on-board aircraft components. It attempts to identify, diagnose, and verify systems which are malfunctioning or may malfunction during the mission.
Various modules such as aircraft systems interpreter (SI), environmental interpreter (EI), provide crucial information on health status of aircraft systems and environment, and the flight progress.

Currently Su-30 has a South African HUMS a variant of which is on the Typhoon. Data is of course limited to what can be already sampled. Obviously, in a densely packed aircraft like the Su-30 which was designed elsewhere, you cannot retrofit an entirely new system from scratch.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/S ... Slide3.JPG
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/S ... Slide4.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_44d3OT-xI3U/S ... Slide2.JPG

Indigenization of some modules is being done, with less fanfare by private OEMs working with DRDO and IAF
https://www.slntech.com/client-10-2/abo ... y-profile/

But LCA has far more data capture since it has better system level BITE which can feed data offline. This was noted by DRDO specialists but I am too lazy to dig it up.

DRDO also undertook to develop in-house structural health monitoring capability
http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2010_10_01_archive.html

ADE has conducted Nishant trials on N15-32 (28.10.2010) at Kolar Airfield in which a technology break through has been achieved. A new technology called the Structural Health Monitoring has been developed by Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE) & National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) for the monitoring of structural health parameters while the UAV is in flight. This break through enables the structural health of aeronautical structures to be monitored, so that online health can be monitored and online and corrective action for the flight can be taken. This enables the aircraft to be flown without unnecessarily grounding them. Analysis algorithms have been developed to predict onset of failures which would be perfected using the data obtained through today’s flight. Usage of such techniques will avoid periodic grounding of the aircraft and make the maintenance schedules to be more like “on condition maintenance”, the condition being detected even before the failure occurs. It will avoid unnecessary grounding of aircraft for inspection. Such a monitoring can be used for LCA, MCA, FGFA and other UAVs. Such techniques are going to be extensively used in the future in order to cut down the operation costs of the aircraft and can also lead to reduction in airfares. Such techniques can prevent ensuing danger of the flights by pre-warning the occurance of failure.



So efforts are ongoing.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Indranil » 15 Feb 2017 00:34

Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2017 01:20

wow

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 15 Feb 2017 12:20

For Modernisation of MKI they are proposing Su-35 117S Engine

https://ria.ru/defense_safety/20170215/1487999667.html

The modernized Su-30MKI for the Indian Air Force will receive the engines of the Su-35

"Speaking of the aircraft modernization of Su-30MKI in terms of propulsion - we have developed the engine AL-41F-1C, it is installed on the Su-35 This motor is presented at our stand and can be used for the Su-30MKI." - Artyukhov said on press conference.
He added that the engine whose performance is significantly superior to its predecessors.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 15 Feb 2017 12:22

117S engine http://www.npo-saturn.ru/index_old.php?sat=64&slang=1

That would bump up the thrust 2 T each engine and total 4 T over AL-31FP engine , not to mention long life etc

Advantages


The 117S engine thrust has been increased by 16% (up to 14500 kgf) compared to the base AL-31FP engine, the ultimate life has been increased twice (up to 4 000 hours), keeping the same weight and overall dimensions. Such high parameters are attained thanks to application of:
• new high-tech LP compressor with increased air consumption and efficiency
• high efficiency turbine with increased reliability and improved blade cooling system
• new digital engine control system integrated to aircraft flight control system

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 15 Feb 2017 12:40

^^ Sweet.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2017 14:32

DARE has a high band jammer pod for Su-30 MKI in the works (similar to SAP-518)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4r1URXXUAAl_sW.jpg:large

That is clearly a prototype or test article.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 15 Feb 2017 14:43

Seems Siva pod size has been reduced by half compared to what i saw in 2009 , But they told me more than half of Siva pod was empty for growth potential

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 15 Feb 2017 19:12

Looks the same size austin. perhaps optical illusion.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 16 Feb 2017 09:16

Karan M wrote:Jay - see this. Part of what you want.
DRDO has a proposal to integrate HUMS into MC function.
http://publications.drdo.gov.in/ojs/ind ... /4260/4470

• System Status Reporting:

Sorry about the poor resolution image, but in this connection

An Indian company called SFO technologies is offering fuselage skin with embedded sensors to gauge vibration and strain
Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 15:34

Thanks shiv! Fuggedabouttheresolution says I.
One more Indian firm offering local solutions is always something to get excited about.
http://www.sfotechnologies.net/

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby rohitvats » 16 Feb 2017 17:02

Karan M wrote:DARE has a high band jammer pod for Su-30 MKI in the works (similar to SAP-518)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4r1URXXUAAl_sW.jpg:large

That is clearly a prototype or test article.


This one has the story about DARE's new jammer pod for Su-30MKI and unique application of Siva pod.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/how-a-secretive-drdo-lab-is-saving-the-iaf-su-30mki.html

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 16 Feb 2017 17:29

Karan M wrote:Thanks shiv! Fuggedabouttheresolution says I.
One more Indian firm offering local solutions is always something to get excited about.
http://www.sfotechnologies.net/

Also from SFO - a Laser Doppler Air Data Sensor for measuring true airspeed, angle of attack and angle of sideslip, measurement of gust and turbulence, stalling, boundary layer and other flight regimes. They also do fly by light solutions
Image

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 16 Feb 2017 17:45

how does the SFC of the 117S engine compare to the AL31FP ?

just having 2T more are peak reheat for a few mins is not the whole story. any additional weight, fuel consumption at typical thrust settings and altitudes etc are more important, along with ofcourse durability

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 18:00

rohitvats wrote:
Karan M wrote:DARE has a high band jammer pod for Su-30 MKI in the works (similar to SAP-518)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4r1URXXUAAl_sW.jpg:large

That is clearly a prototype or test article.


This one has the story about DARE's new jammer pod for Su-30MKI and unique application of Siva pod.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/how-a-secretive-drdo-lab-is-saving-the-iaf-su-30mki.html


That's a great story at one level & is worrisome at others.

Aroor has heard SAP-518 as SAP-51A.

Looks like both Option 1 (EL/L-8222 SPJ) and Option 2 (SAP-518) haven't worked out. The good part is we finally have a new RWR and SPJ coming up, fingers crossed that these work. The Tarang faced masking issues (canards) and the EL/L-8222 faced interface and timing issues with the Bars radar. And now we hear the Tarang had issues with the SAP-518 (envelope due to the size of these massive pods apart http://www.ausairpower.net/VVS/KNIRTI-S ... VVK-1S.jpg).

Is it any surprise the Russians didn't help with Tarang issues with the SAP-518?

BARS did not work with EL/L-8222 and we had to go for the SAP-518.

Now if the Tarang does not work with the SAP-518, we would have had to go with a new Russian RWR as well.

I am hoping the DR-118 and this new pod work with Bars and DR-118 solves the issue of masking as well. Tarang had masking issues but not Bars compatibility issues so we seem to have worked out the timing aspect (radar ON, ESM recieve, ECM OFF etc).


Also tells us we need to be circumspect around bean counter (CAG reports) when they talk of tech. CAG had alluded RWR program for Su-30 MKI had been foreclosed. I had trawled through MOD reports and noted it made no sense to keep talking of DR-118 if the program was closed. Now we know it does exist and is an active program.

Lets hope it works and clears trials.

The DR-118 has a digital receiver. These are considered essential for detecting LPI signals. Very likely the DR-118 can possess this capability (DRDO does, its DLRL's Varuna ESM can classify LPI).

The other worrisome aspect - the Siva pod withdrawal. Siva was basically a higher capability RWR packaged into a pod for Kh-31 strikes. Per news reports, the Kh-31 was a dud and did not work. Very likely that has meant the Siva pod never got ordered in bulk and hence the need for the NGARM.

Like the Astra, the NGARM better come fast.

Basically, apart from their pre-FSU munitions, pretty much all "new" Russian stuff seems to have been handed to us with bugs galore. Some fixable (Bars radar, engines), some a continuing mess (munitions).
Last edited by Karan M on 16 Feb 2017 18:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 18:03

Shiv - thank you. Any chance of putting up any more infoboards or such on any website or a BR gallery

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 16 Feb 2017 18:06

Karan M wrote:Shiv - thank you. Any chance of putting up any more infoboards or such on any website or a BR gallery

Karan I think we could have a separate thread for people to contribute. I ensured that all my camera batteries were dead or nearly dead by the time I actually went into the stalls - but hopefully as a group we can collect up a lot of info. In any case I was only interested in Video knowing that my range of vintage cameras from 1990 to 2010 can't hold a candle to even an iPhone in some cases :oops:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 18:11

The news report also confirms the new IMR seeker for Brahmos is progressing, at least, an initial set of trials. IMR per RFP"

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wPDXMsnQwD0/ ... %2BPod.jpg

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Zynda » 16 Feb 2017 18:40

Karan, can u give more info about IMR seeker? Usage, purpose...that kind of stuff. The pic in the link is too small to be useful.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 22:00

Hi zynda, there are two seeker programs in development. One is an advanced one - ECIL anx datapatterns are partnering DRDO. One is a replacement program for current seeker with Alpha vs Datapatterns. The seekers are both for Brahmos first but the advanc type unit is for imaging. So u get a radar image, preload, Brahmos or Nirbhay can go for it or reference type images. These two seeker programs will allow us to field a class of misdiles able to take on variety of targets.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rishi Verma » 16 Feb 2017 22:12

^^ why is there an AC to DC power supply in a missile-seeker assembly? unless the illustration is for a lab bench unit. Brahmos will have to plug into a wall after reaching Pakistan but there electricity is under load shedding 18 hours a day.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Zynda » 16 Feb 2017 22:24

So it is kind of a Terrain Scene recognition but instead of in the visible spectrum, the radio wave returns are processed and converted in to an image which is probably cross-referenced with images in existing library. Perhaps would be of great help in cluttered ground environment among others.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Feb 2017 22:35

Zynda yes


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