Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Aug 2018 06:32

In the shelving of any buy of the FGFA either through a JV or outright buy, leveraging the Flanker template to its max. is a logical and cost-effective solution.The gradual induction of SS variants will also increase the IAF's strike capability with more BMos birds.If the extra 40+ MKIs are also upto planned SS std., it would be even better.There was a vclip by Austin on the FGFA ,where a test pilot said that there was considerable AI in the aircraft making the pilot's task easier.The planned SS variants could incorporate some FGFA tech just as Ru SU-35s are being planned for.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 27 Aug 2018 17:13

http://idrw.org/indias-super-sukhoi-su- ... echnology/

Is there even a need to buy Su-57 if this is true? Though I am sure Russia will only allow these upgrades after we place an order for 20-40 Su-57

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Aug 2018 20:08

I don't think that forcing us to buy the SU- 57 will hinder an SS deal.The bird is only entering RuAF service by 2020 with 12 to 20+ aircraft expected to form the first sqd.Until the Ru needs are first met it is unlikely that any will be available for export.I think there isn understanding that a future buy is on the cards until which time the MKI fleet will be augmented and upgraded.

Acquiring between 40 to 60 new MKIs, the SS upgrade for at least a first batch of 40 aircraft is a major deal.With the extra aircraft, we will possess around 310+ MKIs, a huge number, almost 40% of the inventory.This bird is the veritable backbone of the IAF. At least 50% of this number will be upgraded to SS std.A huge volume of work for HAL.HAL has been able to build between 12 to 16 MKIs a year.The new MKIs plus SS upgrades should keep it busy for at least 5- 6 years.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 27 Aug 2018 20:22

I just don't see how Russia allows fifth gen tech on Su-30 without a firm commitment to PAKFA. Not gonna happen. It will take atleast India rejoining the program if not a confirm order of a couple of squadrons.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Aug 2018 23:14

The SU-35 is supposed to feature some tech. developed for the FGFA.No reason as to why SS std. Flankers can't have some input.This would make acquiring the " full montyvich" more attractive.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 28 Aug 2018 11:20

Trikaal wrote:http://idrw.org/indias-super-sukhoi-su- ... echnology/

Is there even a need to buy Su-57 if this is true? Though I am sure Russia will only allow these upgrades after we place an order for 20-40 Su-57

Aren't we developing our own IRST for the MKI, then where is question of getting su-57's IRST?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Aug 2018 19:53

PS: Check out the concepts for the Franco-German and Brit. 6th-gen birds.SCAF and Tempest respectively.The SCAF looks v.innovative like a smaller version of a stealth bomber with the intakes on either side of ghe cockpit/ central spine above the wing in a sweeping curved section , with tail fins sloping inwards at a v.acute angle.The Tempest's intakes appear somewhat like the SU- 57.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 29 Aug 2018 00:14

Trikaal wrote:I just don't see how Russia allows fifth gen tech on Su-30 without a firm commitment to PAKFA. Not gonna happen. It will take atleast India rejoining the program if not a confirm order of a couple of squadrons.

It will help Russia in verifying the technology in blocks at India’s expenses. we are doing the same with LCA/NLCA/MCA programs. It is a win win situation.

Trikaal · Post by **Trikaal** » 29 Aug 2018 10:26

^They can very well do that by making India pay for development and test it on their own aircrafts or PAKFA prototypes. That would be a double win for Russia and a lose for India. Much better than win-win.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 29 Aug 2018 11:51

They already tried to do that but failed. How thick someone can be, you want someone else to pay but keep all the IP and know-how with yourself. Others might accept it once or twice but it can not be a norm. I hope, our friends are getting this message clear and loud.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 29 Aug 2018 13:23

They are reportedly using some 5th-gen tech on their own SU-35s.The dev. costs will be absorbed by series production of their own Flanker variants aircraft.What is being toiuted in the PR reg. the SU-57 is some amt. of AI greatly reducing the pilot's workload allowing him to concentrate on the most important tasks.

We have already integrated BMos-A ourselves and there should be a significant amount of desi input into the SS upgrade.New engines will have to comd from Ru and most probably a new radar.It will be interesting to see what the changes are and the unit vost of the same.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 29 Aug 2018 15:34

We need 5th gen tech like EO targeting, super cruise and side mounted AESA arrays. If the PAK-FA program has made any worthwhile progress (besides brochure quality pictures), these are the things that Russia should find easiest to deliver for Su-30 upgrades.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 30 Aug 2018 10:32

IAF Su-30MKIs fired up its N011M Bars radar in full combat mode in Pitch Black 2018

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 30 Aug 2018 10:38

JTull wrote:IAF Su-30MKIs fired up its N011M Bars radar in full combat mode in Pitch Black 2018

With Nato Elint and AWACS around I dontt know if we have done a stupid thing here.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 30 Aug 2018 10:39

Yeah. Why reveal?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 30 Aug 2018 10:42

Assuming that the reports are correct.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 30 Aug 2018 12:49

It might as well be another attempt to wedge india and russia as was done during the submarine incident

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Aug 2018 23:28

Lifafa article. Read the title of the article and then read the body of the article. And even in the body, there is a one line blurb. They will never reveal the full capability of the Bars radar. Forget antagonizing Russia - which is a guaranteed given - the IAF will never reveal its own hand. No IAF pilot will do that.

nam · Post by **nam** » 30 Aug 2018 23:53

Use the Bars in test/training mode... and tell everyone we have used the Bars in full for the first time.

Everyone goes OMG!

The reporter goes, he told me, so it must be true.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Aug 2018 13:05

True, no one will show gheir full hand in peacetime.Even our Akula has none of the exotic sensors seen on Ru Akulas for wake detection, etc., some whose true purpose is still not known.Even the tubes for special decoys and hard- kill systems have been blanked off in our Chakra.However, some of these may come with the second sub.

I think sev. previous AWST and other articles have shown the integrated conformal radars, el-op sensor, etc. for the FGFA.L.The new rengine has been developed and by 2020 the first batch of 12 will have been delivered according to Ru reports.2025 is thr datd when the Franco-German stealth bird is supposed to fly.It looks v.futuristic, a better overall shape than even what is proposed as the US's next stalth bird of the UK's Tempest.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 31 Aug 2018 19:25

Philip wrote:
I think sev. previous AWST and other articles have shown the integrated conformal radars, el-op sensor, etc. for the FGFA.L.The new rengine has been developed and by 2020 the first batch of 12 will have been delivered according to Ru reports.2025 is thr datd when the Franco-German stealth bird is supposed to fly.It looks v.futuristic, a better overall shape than even what is proposed as the US's next stalth bird of the UK's Tempest.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7625&start=440#p2291881

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Sep 2018 00:24

so it looks like a RAAF KC30 tanker supported the sukhois on darwin to malaysia flight. from there they could fly to india with domestic tanker support.

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2018 00:55

Rakesh wrote:Lifafa article. Read the title of the article and then read the body of the article. And even in the body, there is a one line blurb. They will never reveal the full capability of the Bars radar. Forget antagonizing Russia - which is a guaranteed given - the IAF will never reveal its own hand. No IAF pilot will do that.

They quoted two IAF officers by name pointedly stating that unlike previous exercises the full air-to-air capability of the N011M Bars radar was used during Pitch Black.

I don’t think it is just DDM being DDM.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 02 Sep 2018 03:16

Why would India be so dumb?

Eric Thompson · Post by **Eric Thompson** » 02 Sep 2018 03:20

fanne wrote:Why would India be so dumb?

This is not being dumb but being sinister.

Eric Thompson · Post by **Eric Thompson** » 02 Sep 2018 03:26

Aditya_V wrote:
JTull wrote:IAF Su-30MKIs fired up its N011M Bars radar in full combat mode in Pitch Black 2018
With Nato Elint and AWACS around I dontt know if we have done a stupid thing here.

If it was done, it was both sinister and criminal.

And people keep complaining, ad nauseam, on Russia was a unreasonable ally/partner.

Would US allow its fighters to participate in military exercises under SCO or with Russia?

Snehashis · Post by **Snehashis** » 02 Sep 2018 03:49

JTull wrote:IAF Su-30MKIs fired up its N011M Bars radar in full combat mode in Pitch Black 2018

The source is "Keypublishing" and report by IDRW. Couldn't find this article on the main site so the source might be someone's post in the forum which is down ATM.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Sep 2018 04:42

chola wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Lifafa article. Read the title of the article and then read the body of the article. And even in the body, there is a one line blurb. They will never reveal the full capability of the Bars radar. Forget antagonizing Russia - which is a guaranteed given - the IAF will never reveal its own hand. No IAF pilot will do that.
They quoted two IAF officers by name pointedly stating that unlike previous exercises the full air-to-air capability of the N011M Bars radar was used during Pitch Black.

I don’t think it is just DDM being DDM.

Please provide the quote saying this? As in actual statement from the officers, not somebody saying that they said something.

I have half a mind to perma ban IDRW links for their click bait antics.

The actual article by an Aussie journo which these shameless IDRW fellows copied word to word, actually says the exact REVERSE, that the IAF only revealed unclas radar capabilities at Pitch Black.

Some Roy Choo claims IAF officers said something. But there is no quote for this.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Sep 2018 04:43

Eric Thompson wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:
With Nato Elint and AWACS around I dontt know if we have done a stupid thing here.
If it was done, it was both sinister and criminal.

And people keep complaining, ad nauseam, on Russia was a unreasonable ally/partner.

Would US allow its fighters to participate in military exercises under SCO or with Russia?

Don't fall for IDRWs antics. The actual post is copied from an Aussie aviation enthusiasts visit to an Aussie base and clearly mentions Bars and actual Su-30 capabilities are OFF LIMITS.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Sep 2018 04:59

Posted by Kakarat.
http://aviationphotodigest.com/pitch-bl ... onic-boom/

Asked if the IAF had brought the full capabilities that this aircraft can bring to an exercise Gpt Capt Around (name typo as it is Anand quoted earlier) stated: No we didnt, primarily because it is an UNCLASS exercise and we want to leave it at an unclassified level and we are coming from a very long distance and for us its a friendly exercise and we would like to keep it at that"..

Read the rest for the other quotes.

Bottomline: Radar et al used in UNCLASS mode.

So kindly stop worrying, work from the general assumption IAF knows these issues very well and relax.

chola · Post by **chola** » 02 Sep 2018 09:52

Karan M wrote:
chola wrote:
They quoted two IAF officers by name pointedly stating that unlike previous exercises the full air-to-air capability of the N011M Bars radar was used during Pitch Black.

I don’t think it is just DDM being DDM.
Please provide the quote saying this? As in actual statement from the officers, not somebody saying that they said something.

I have half a mind to perma ban IDRW links for their click bait antics.

The actual article by an Aussie journo which these shameless IDRW fellows copied word to word, actually says the exact REVERSE, that the IAF only revealed unclas radar capabilities at Pitch Black.

Some Roy Choo claims IAF officers said something. But there is no quote for this.

Yes, you are right. It was some Roy Choo claiming by naming two IAF officers saying so. I had some reservations so I didn’t put their names in my post.

But I find it recklessly blatant if they had lied about this while explicitly naming two group captains. Journalists who make up chit tend to use “un-named” sources. If these ******** are attributing lies to actual people then they are insanely bold, evil and reckless with other people’s lives. I hope they gets sued if that is actually the case.

Eric Thompson · Post by **Eric Thompson** » 02 Sep 2018 10:14

Karan M wrote:
Eric Thompson wrote:
If it was done, it was both sinister and criminal.

And people keep complaining, ad nauseam, on Russia was a unreasonable ally/partner.

Would US allow its fighters to participate in military exercises under SCO or with Russia?
Don't fall for IDRWs antics. The actual post is copied from an Aussie aviation enthusiasts visit to an Aussie base and clearly mentions Bars and actual Su-30 capabilities are OFF LIMITS.

Thanks for the clarification.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Sep 2018 14:28

Chola, this is not the first time the mag in question has played fast and loose with facts regarding the IAF. But nobody is gonna sue anybody because the AF has much bigger fish to fry such as fighting wars or preparing for fighting them. But it is true that making such statements under the names of actual serving officers can actually cause them trouble.

This Roy Choo guy could have simply misinterpreted what was told to him by the AF guys. For instance, he asked them if the IAF was using the N011M for BVR work and the IAF guys said something like this yeah first time we are using it here (in Australia). RC writes: first time eva, IAF uses N011M in an exercise.

Which we know is absolutely wrong. IAF used Su-30s in BVR mode in Indradhanush 1 & 3 (vs RAF, limited modes), against RSAF (multiple exercises, ditto), at Red Flag (new training mode and were very happy even that held up in heavy jamming and provided for BVR capability)... list is long and varied.

Media and their "interpretations" and.. IDRW and their copy and paste. Made for each other.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 03 Sep 2018 02:15

Every time I read these articles about use of a secretive equipment etc etc etc.
I wonder ... after all that training, upbringing (within the IAF life), living that patriotic duty and everything that goes on in 24 hours non-stop for 15 years of their life after they have spent 20 years growing up in India.

They are just another idiot flying a plane who just toggled the BARS radar on ... just for the heck of it.
And now ooh la la la the NATO fellas know everything about us.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 03 Sep 2018 08:13

Also devious deception tactics by inscrutable Yindians from the orient! "Shifty lot these darkies are, who never play with a straight bat.Remember the first COPE exercises when their grey market equipped Bisons screwed our Eagles?"

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Sep 2018 16:21

UEC is officially mentoning Al-41-F1C for Su-30SM upgrade , Could be for Super 30 program

https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3326515.html

nam · Post by **nam** » 03 Sep 2018 16:31

It is fascinating how we take words as gospel, just because a gora reporter has said it.

I mean was it only IAF pilots, who were generous enough to open up BARS? Did the Americans also had the same rules or was the privilege only for us?

IAF pilots were dumb enough not to realize that their act could endanger the life of their comrade, who they know personally, where as we considered ourself smart for pointing this out, because ... a reporter said so.

If Americans/ British/ Russians are not known to reveal their true capability even during war times( carrots for good eyesight story, anyone?), we consider our-self a special species who goes around telling our valuable secrets!

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Sep 2018 22:42

Interestng option for Super MKI upgrade

Russia To Order Improved Su-30 'Flankers'

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... 0-flankers

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2018 18:56

Su 35 vs F22, if you care & /OT
https://amp.businessinsider.com/photos- ... ght-2018-9

If true, then IAF would be already flying the IRST

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Sep 2018 22:21

In WVR, it is anybody's game. Does not matter you have stealth or not.

Jet's don't kill, BVR/CCM do.