Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

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Dennis
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Dennis » 21 Feb 2015 12:14

Sukhois at AeroIndia 2015:

SB404 - Static display
SB413 - Flying Display
SB318 - Flying Display

The airplanes and display pilots are from 30 Sq and 106 Sq. The next Su-30MKI Sq is going to be based in South India, unclear yet whether it will be based in Sulur or Thanjavur.

30 Sq was involved in the Astra testing. No Sq yet involved in the Brahmos testing. It was being handled by HAL Nasik.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 21 Feb 2015 13:36

Thanks Dennis,

that's very useful. I remember a couple of years ago we were trying to piece SU 30 numbers together using the SBs and somebody had posted which SB series was from which order.

I thought it was thanjavur.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby rohitvats » 21 Feb 2015 14:47

Dennis wrote:<SNIP>The airplanes and display pilots are from 30 Sq and 106 Sq. The next Su-30MKI Sq is going to be based in South India, unclear yet whether it will be based in Sulur or Thanjavur.<SNIP>


Thank you for sharing the above news.

By sharing the detail about 106 Squadron, you've just confirmed the existence of 9th Su-30 MKI squadron.

For reference of mango BRFites, 106 Squadron was the last one to operate Canberra bombers in IAF service; the famous incident of Canberra on photo-reconnaissance mission being hit by a stinger during Kargil war and it landing back with missile stuck in the wing/engine involved this Squadron.

Canberra were retired in 2007 and the Squadron was either number-plated or was supposed to be flying HS 748 Avro.

Su-30 MKI Squadrons: 2, 8, 20, 24, 30, 31, 102, 220 and 106.

No. 15 Squadron was supposed to also convert to Su-30 MKI but the final word is not clear on the same; if it has converted, then we will have 10 Squadrons of Su-30 MKI in service.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Akshay Kapoor » 21 Feb 2015 15:09

I think there is a good chance 15 has also converted. News started appearing 3 years ago about conversion starting. But you are right, was never conclusive. If 15 hasn't converted then pace of induction is really slow. 9 squadrons would mean just about 162 a/c.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Dennis » 21 Feb 2015 15:13

My list of Su-30mki squadrons: 2, 8, 15, 17, 20, 24, 30, 31, 102, 106, 220.

Re 106 Sq - New patch

Also, from a photo used on a HAL poster on Brahmos intergation: SB200 was the airframe used for the integration and ground tests.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby rohitvats » 21 Feb 2015 15:35

Dennis wrote:My list of Su-30mki squadrons: 2, 8, 15, 17, 20, 24, 30, 31, 102, 106, 220.

Re 106 Sq - New patch


Thanks for the patch link. Looks great.

15 Squadron was announced during IAF Day conference of IAF Chief in 2012 and was supposed to be ready by 2013. Interestingly, it was supposed to be the 10th squadron!

I've confirmation from secondary sources for all the squadrons listed by me; have not found any supporting evidence for 15 and 17 squadrons. If you've any (apart from wiki), please share. Will help to modify the IAF re-equipment analysis as well. Thanks.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 08 Mar 2015 12:13


Austin
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 17 Mar 2015 10:54

Good Details in MKM program

Su-30MKM in service with RMAF ( pg 18 )

http://en.take-off.ru/pdf_to/to32.pdf

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby sum » 17 Mar 2015 11:37

^^ Tarmak007 reporting on Twitter that agencies have nabbed a HAL employee in Koratput unit for stealing Su-30 engine blades and have recovered hundreds of the blades from his house.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Singha » 17 Mar 2015 12:41

was he running a export business to china ? :)

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_28640 » 17 Mar 2015 13:58

Saar if that guy sells them for the materials those turbine blades are worth more than their weight in gold

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby sum » 17 Mar 2015 14:12

More details here. real scary to know the level of security in most of our DSPUs:
HAL Technician Held for Stealing Sukhoi Blades

A senior technician of Sukhoi division of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Arun Kumar Pradhan, was arrested on Sunday on charges of stealing parts of the fighter aircraft, Sukhoi, from the factory premises at Sunabeda in Koraput district. He was produced in SDJM Court which remanded him in judicial custody.

Sources said HAL security personnel at the main gate caught Pradhan in possession of expensive blades of the aero engine of Sukhoi. Pradhan was later handed over to Sunabeda police.

During investigation, police seized over 198 Sukhoi aero engine blades and other parts from Pradhan’s residence at Semiliguda. During interrogation, police came to know that Pradhan, who has a workshop at Semiliguda, used to supply the blades to a private company.

How could the components meant for Defence sector and manufactured secretly by the company be stolen despite strict surveillance within and outside the HAL premises has baffled the probing team.

Suspecting involvement of top officials in the loot, police have rounded up five senior officers of HAL and are quizzing them. The police have also asked for documents related to supply of blades for Sukhoi and other components from HAL authorities.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Shreeman » 17 Mar 2015 14:48

^^^ Matter will be hushed up. Nothing more will come of it.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby rkhanna » 17 Mar 2015 15:29

During investigation, police seized over 198 Sukhoi aero engine blades and other parts from Pradhan’s residence at Semiliguda. During interrogation, police came to know that Pradhan, who has a workshop at Semiliguda, used to supply the blades to a private company.


Public Private partnership onleeee.. Now which "Private" player would be interested in advanced Engine blades? Does the investigation go till there or end only at HAL's front gate?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby sooraj » 17 Mar 2015 15:50

will Russian intel agencies probe in this matter???

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby pankajs » 17 Mar 2015 16:06

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 596374.cms
Sukhoi's serviceability to improve by year-end: Manohar Parrikar
"We have been trying to improve the serviceability of Sukhois. It has improved by seven per cent in last 8-9 months to reach to 56-57 per cent," he said in Rajya Sabha, exuding hope that it would go up to 75 per cent by the year end.

A total of 35 incidents of engine failures in air or other engine-related problems have occured between January, 2013 and December last year.

To a question, Parrikar said the Russian Original Equipment Manufacturer had introduced a number of measures to contain and eliminate technical issues that have led to engine troubles in flight.

"OEM has offered nine modifications or technological improvements for implementation in the production of new aero engines and during overhaul of engines," he said.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Nikhil T » 18 Mar 2015 08:33

Su-30 MKI - air force's most modern jet plauged by engine trouble

NEW DELHI: Sukhoi-30 MKI, the most powerful and modern fighter jets in Indian Air Force's stable, has been hit by mid-air engine failures. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Parliament today that as many as 35 instances of engine failures were reported in 2013-14 - that's nearly three a month.

In all, there are 69 instances of engine failure in the last four years, the minister said. Inquiries by the Air Force have revealed that in as many as 33 instances, the engines failed because of impure fuel, in another 11 cases, the problem was caused by excessive vibration and in eight others, engine failures were reported because of low pressure in the lubricant tanks, the Defence Minister said. About five SU-30 MKI have crashed since 2009.

Engine failures is fast becoming a major concern for Air Force and also puts a question mark on India's ability to defend its skies. Another problem area that senior Air Force officers point out is serviceability. "Serviceability of the aircraft is about 50 per cent only," an officer said. It means at any given time, roughly half out of a fleet of 200 jets are available for operational purposes. This becomes crucial in times of emergencies like war.

Mr Parrikar said that the engines were scheduled to be overhauled after every 1000 hours of flying, but the defects started showing-up after only 500 hours of flying. The minister said that Russia-based NPO Saturn, manufacturers of Su-30 Al-31FP engines, offered to make "nine technological improvements" during overhauls, and added that after the modifications the engines were flying for upto 900 hours.

To address the growing capability gap, especially that created by increasing obsolescence of MiG-21, India is talking to France to buy 126 medium multi-role Rafale fighter jets. But the negotiations have been dragging on for three years. Although the acquisition has got mired on per unit cost and number of man hours required to produce it in India, a resolution of these issue can be expected when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits France in April.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 18 Mar 2015 08:50

Read how effecting the capability to defend the skies and Rafale purchase found their place in the article. Lovely.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 18 Mar 2015 09:56

33 out of 69 failures due to "impure fuel"! That is an astonishing fact that almost 50% of the engine failures are due to this factor alone. Who is supplying the IAF with aviation fuel? Indian Oil? The purveyors of aviation fuel to the IAF have to be pulled up and found accountable.The IAF/petro cos. should also set up facilities for fuel testing before fuel is delivered to any IAF base. Other reasons should be taken up with the OEM/Sukhoi.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 18 Mar 2015 10:04

LOL no mention of the other 36/69 by Philip ji. Russia stronk. :mrgreen:

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 18 Mar 2015 12:34

Clearly mentioned in the post,other cases to be taken up with the OEM/Sukhoi. There must be something in the contract for defective eqpt.,etc.,culpability and responsibility. One must also remember here that as of now "70%" of the MKI is being manufactured from Indian sourced raw material. Are the engines/blades/components too being manufactured from local material? Rceently the first MKI overhauled was handed over to the IAF .There has been huge progress in absorbing SU-30 tech,manufacturing it in India,and now support/overhauling,etc. Therefore supporting the type for the next 3 decades+ is going to be much easier in the future than if it were a full import.

The simple truth is that almost 50% of engine failures are due to just one factor,"impure fuel".Is this the usual practice of adulterated fuel being dumped upon the Indian/IAF consumer or an attempt at sabotage? Rectifying this one cause will result in halving the number of engine failures. The report about blades being stolen should also be pursued.Something is clearly rotten at HAL,a thorough investigation should be done.

Incidentally,there is a other report that the first M-2000 upgrade is being handed over only now.MIG-29UGs have been in the pipeline much earlier, UGs being now done in India.Taneja aerospace have also been chosen to support the MIG-29 in the future.Report here:

http://www.janes.com/article/46590/priv ... grade-deal
Private Indian firm Taneja wins MiG-29 upgrade deal
Jon Grevatt, Bangkok - IHS Jane's Defence Industry

02 December 2014
Bangalore-based Taneja Aerospace & Aviation Limited (TAAL) has signed a contract with the Indian Air Force (IAF) to provide further upgrades for the service's MiG-29 multirole combat aircraft, the private company has announced.

In a company filing to the Bombay Stock Exchange on 1 December, TAAL said that the upgrade work would be completed over three years. A company official confirmed to IHS Jane's that the contract is worth INR128 million (USD2 million), adding that the value of the work could increase over time.

The contract is linked to a request for information issued by the IAF in October 2013 supporting programmes to provide maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) services as well as further upgrades for the MiG-29s in collaboration with the air force

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 18 Mar 2015 12:44

More on HAL's overhaul of MKIs.
http://www.janes.com/article/47805/hal- ... -air-force
HAL hands back first overhauled Su-30MKI to Indian Air Force

Rahul Bedi, New Delhi - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

11 January 2015
HAL has handed over the first Su-30MKI to be overhauled at its facilities. Source: IHS/Paul Jackson

India's state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) delivered its first overhauled Su-30MKI multirole fighter to the Indian Air Force (IAF) on 9 January.

Refurbished at its Nashik facility in western India - where HAL has been licence-building the twin-engine Russian fighter since 2000 - officials said the overhauled Su-30MKI is now capable of operating for another 14 years or 1,500 hours of flying time.

HAL sources said the overhaul, costing around INR1.10 billion (USD18.3 million), entailed executing more than 600 modifications to the Su-30MKI involving around 2,500 separate processes.

HAL added that a second overhauled Su-30MKI was also ready for delivery to the IAF. The company also announced its intent of imminently increasing its capacity to overhaul 15 Su-30MKIs annually and of doubling this number by 2030.

Each Su-30MKI undergoes three overhauls during its 25-year operational life or 6,000 hours of flying time.

"We [HAL] are the first in the world to hand over an overhauled Su-30MKI to the air force after it completed 1,500 flying hours in 10 years," S Subrahmanyam, managing director of HAL's Nashik complex, told the Times of India .

However, it took HAL more than a decade to develop maintenance, repair and overhaul (MRO) facilities for the Su-30MKI.

An MoD official said this aspect was "mysteriously overlooked" by HAL, the IAF and the Ministry of Defence (MoD) when the USD3 billion tender to licence-build 140 Su-30MKIs at Nashik was signed with Russia in 2000.


The MoD, meanwhile, aims to offer the Su-30MKI MRO capability to countries that, between them, operate around 200 Su-30 variants. Other than Russia this includes Algeria, Malaysia, Uganda, Venezuela, and Vietnam.

The IAF acquired 50 Su-30K variants in the late 1990s for USD1.46 billion, and thereafter replaced them with the more advanced Su-30MKI export version through direct imports and licensed production by HAL. By around 2020 the IAF aims to operate 272 Su-30MKIs, making it India's single largest fighter type.

ANALYSIS

With the IAF reduced to just 34 fighter squadrons from its sanctioned strength of 42, the procurement of 126 Dassault Rafales in limbo, and older Russian platforms such as the MiG-21 retiring shortly, the number of Su-30MKIs in IAF service is likely to increase significantly.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar recently indicated as much when he declared in December 2014 that additional licence-built Su-30MKIs could "adequately" meet the possible shortfall of IAF fighters.

However, the Su-30MKI's serviceability rate of around 50% - among the lowest of the IAF's fighters - poses serious operational problems, and for which the air force is entirely dependent on HAL to improve.

Official sources said of the 193 Su-30MKIs in service today, only around 106 were operationally available. The remaining 87 were in various stages of repair, overhaul or fitment by HAL - and to a limited degree by the IAF.

Senior IAF officers believe that ramping up HAL's capacity to annually overhaul 15, and later 30, Su-30s would go a long way towards improving the Russian fighter's serviceability. It would also render more platforms operationally available to a force facing depleted assets.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby rkhanna » 18 Mar 2015 14:20

"We [HAL] are the first in the world to hand over an overhauled Su-30MKI to the air force after it completed 1,500 flying hours in 10 years," S Subrahmanyam, managing director of HAL's Nashik complex, told the Times of India .


Quick questions to Gurus. Does the above mean that our Flanker Pilots essentially get 150 hrs of flying time a year on Average? With 50% Serviceability of the Fleet doesnt those not bode too well for pilot training hours. During the Cope India 2004/2005 time there were enough news articles of IAF pilots getting 200+ hrs a year. Does this still hold?

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby JTull » 18 Mar 2015 14:46

However, the Su-30MKI's serviceability rate of around 50% - among the lowest of the IAF's fighters - poses serious operational problems, and for which the air force is entirely dependent on HAL to improve.

Official sources said of the 193 Su-30MKIs in service today, only around 106 were operationally available. The remaining 87 were in various stages of repair, overhaul or fitment by HAL - and to a limited degree by the IAF.


Another example of how HAL is the chief bottleneck!

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Austin » 18 Mar 2015 14:52

rkhanna wrote:Quick questions to Gurus. Does the above mean that our Flanker Pilots essentially get 150 hrs of flying time a year on Average? With 50% Serviceability of the Fleet doesnt those not bode too well for pilot training hours. During the Cope India 2004/2005 time there were enough news articles of IAF pilots getting 200+ hrs a year. Does this still hold?


I think that would probably mean that the 50 % flanker that do fly the IAF pilots average out to 200 + hours. The remaining would probably spend the time in simulators etc

Not all flanker pilot would be flying 200+ hours some may fly 150 the other would be 250 but the average comes to 200+ hours

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 18 Mar 2015 20:11

JTull wrote:
However, the Su-30MKI's serviceability rate of around 50% - among the lowest of the IAF's fighters - poses serious operational problems, and for which the air force is entirely dependent on HAL to improve.

Official sources said of the 193 Su-30MKIs in service today, only around 106 were operationally available. The remaining 87 were in various stages of repair, overhaul or fitment by HAL - and to a limited degree by the IAF.


Another example of how HAL is the chief bottleneck!


Another example of how people are sometimes too quick to bash HAL. Both Mirage-2000 and MiG-29 availability rates are around 75%, that is after HAL has established overhaul facility for them in India. Sukhoi-30 availability will reach the same levels now that the overhaul facility has gone online. Currently HAL sends the aggregrates to Irkutsk, which significantly increases the time between repairs.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby JTull » 19 Mar 2015 13:37

It doesn't take 10 years to figure out that a need for overhaul is coming!

Besides, at 57% availability, it couldn't be that 43% of the aircraft are grounded for overhaul. There clearly are shortcomings in regular repair and maintenance that even HALphiles must acknowledge.
Last edited by JTull on 19 Mar 2015 19:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby nikhil_p » 19 Mar 2015 17:25

JT - the problem with HAL is at the supply chain level. It still operates at sarkari pace, where stuff is ordered only when needed. Also, for a lot of small parts, they will order only when the order level reaches a certain level - irrespective of the current inventory.
It is a problem which plagued a lot of older manufacturers as well, esp. in the Auto sector, where in case of CKD or SKD kit assembly if something went wrong there is a long lead time to order the parts, which are not stocked (read ECU's). Case in point Skoda and BMW

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Philip » 19 Mar 2015 18:18

This is a cultural problem.Across the board in India,esp. in govt. depts.the concept of maintenance and repair,renovation are dirty words.We inherited the most fabulous infrastructure left behind by the British,set up no doubt for the exploitation of the subcontinent's wealth,but nevertheless splendid railways,public buildings,bridges,defence establishmetns,airfields,ports,etc. How have we looked after them? Similarly,in the case of the armed forces,the same culture has persisted mainly due to babudom unwilling to release needed funds for essential maintenance,spares,etc.The IN's sinking sub fleet and woes of the surface fleet perhaps the best example. Cannibaalisation of aircraft not that evident. Just see in various tds,including this how just improving the state of aircraft,etc. by better support increases the % of aircraft combat ready.

In many major deals signed,like the Scorpene,it is incomprehensible as alleged that the MOD has entered into agreements which left issues like component supplies,support,spares,etc. wanting. It is only now that pvt. entities are signing up for support/overhauls of major weapon systems earlier procured which is making a difference.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2015 04:43

JTull wrote:It doesn't take 10 years to figure out that a need for overhaul is coming!

Besides, at 57% availability, it couldn't be that 43% of the aircraft are grounded for overhaul. There clearly are shortcomings in regular repair and maintenance that even HALphiles must acknowledge.


Before blaming HAL check up on what the actual issues were, please. I don't expect any rationality from the likes of Philip who constantly bat for Russian interests whilst spitting & cursing their fellow Indians slaves who always do wrong versus the glorious Russian overlords who can do no wrongs.

On the other hand, posters like you, I'd surmise rather look at the facts. The CAG has the details on the Su-30 aspect.

ROE's TOT to HAL was delayed, reducing both HAL's ability to produce aircraft & even sustain existing ones (in other words, until & unless HAL increases indigenization beyond original agreement serviceability would remain low). Then aircraft OH was delayed again because ROE delayed tech transfer, jigs and processes. It took until early this year for HAL to start getting proper assistance from ROE (after IAF also pressurized the Russians) and GOI took it up repeatedly. While HAL has attained upto 70% indigenization (stated) in critical LRUs, the rest plus raw material (per the agreement) continue to come from Russia. There are delays in things like aircraft tyres to LRUs.

There are multiple reports on that in this thread itself. This sort of half baked, delayed support for the Su-30 in part is what led to the Rafale being so attractive in AHQs eyes.

In terms of positivity, the Russians now appear to have woken up and are supporting HAL in improving serviceability. HAL is also maintaining a centralized spares depot on its own to boost IAF sustainment. Its also giving greater thrust to indigenization over & beyond the original agreement, though in an obviously discreet fashion. Hence the RM's statement that by the year end, 75% is the aim.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby member_28788 » 20 Mar 2015 06:13

Nikhil T wrote:Su-30 MKI - air force's most modern jet plauged by engine trouble

NEW DELHI: Sukhoi-30 MKI, the most powerful and modern fighter jets in Indian Air Force's stable, has been hit by mid-air engine failures. Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said in Parliament today that as many as 35 instances of engine failures were reported in 2013-14 - that's nearly three a month.

In all, there are 69 instances of engine failure in the last four years, the minister said. Inquiries by the Air Force have revealed that in as many as 33 instances, the engines failed because of impure fuel, in another 11 cases, the problem was caused by excessive vibration and in eight others, engine failures were reported because of low pressure in the lubricant tanks, the Defence Minister said. About five SU-30 MKI have crashed since 2009.

Engine failures is fast becoming a major concern for Air Force and also puts a question mark on India's ability to defend its skies. Another problem area that senior Air Force officers point out is serviceability. "Serviceability of the aircraft is about 50 per cent only," an officer said. It means at any given time, roughly half out of a fleet of 200 jets are available for operational purposes. This becomes crucial in times of emergencies like war.

Mr Parrikar said that the engines were scheduled to be overhauled after every 1000 hours of flying, but the defects started showing-up after only 500 hours of flying. The minister said that Russia-based NPO Saturn, manufacturers of Su-30 Al-31FP engines, offered to make "nine technological improvements" during overhauls, and added that after the modifications the engines were flying for upto 900 hours.

To address the growing capability gap, especially that created by increasing obsolescence of MiG-21, India is talking to France to buy 126 medium multi-role Rafale fighter jets. But the negotiations have been dragging on for three years. Although the acquisition has got mired on per unit cost and number of man hours required to produce it in India, a resolution of these issue can be expected when Prime Minister Narendra Modi visits France in April.


Hitjob! FUD! Look at the way the article hits out at the Sukhoi and then eases into rafale. Look at the specificity of the attack in the article.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Karan M » 20 Mar 2015 06:43

Its not FUD unfortunately. There are multiple articles mentioning these issues. On the plus side, they are addressing it and its not a mystery.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby shaun » 20 Mar 2015 09:29

Wow, " 50% of engine failures are due to just one factor, impure fuel"... :D !!!! if this is a factor than how are mirage 2000 , hawks , jaguars flying without such problems. we know very well russian engine sucks when compared to western ones and that's the reason for us to go for GE engines and rafale.

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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby deejay » 20 Mar 2015 09:45

Shaun wrote:Wow, " 50% of engine failures are due to just one factor, impure fuel"... :D !!!! if this is a factor than how are mirage 2000 , hawks , jaguars flying without such problems. we know very well russian engine sucks when compared to western ones and that's the reason for us to go for GE engines and rafale.


Finally someone noticed, and not just that since IOC does most of the ATF supply across India both Civil and Military with a few airbases having HP and BP. Since the ATF is from the same source, impure fuel would impact all flying machines and their engines. I would say Boeing's, Airbus's, Su's, Mig's, Mi's,Bell's, etc all would show high engine failure rate.

OT but an interesting point: I know of one confirmed Engine failure due to impure fuel and it happened to a MI 17 in Arunachal (late 90's). The refueling was from Barrels which only helicopters use in remote areas. Post refueling the helicopter started up, came to hover and promptly both engines failed simultaneously, bringing the helicopter down for a hard sit down.

The impurity in the fuel was moisture. The COI held this as Human error aircrew as the pilots had not carried out the mandatory fuel impurity check from each barrel prior to refueling.

Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 20 Mar 2015 12:56

Karan M wrote:
JTull wrote:
In terms of positivity, the Russians now appear to have woken up and are supporting HAL in improving serviceability. HAL is also maintaining a centralized spares depot on its own to boost IAF sustainment. Its also giving greater thrust to indigenization over & beyond the original agreement, though in an obviously discreet fashion. Hence the RM's statement that by the year end, 75% is the aim.


Russia is just trying to LOOK good and helpful to try and push MiG 35 in lieu of Rafale !!!!

Kersi D
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby Kersi D » 20 Mar 2015 12:59

Regarding fuel impurities, please note that the fuel of adulteration isa reality . It has been there since a long time, most probably with some inside help at the oil PSUs depots

kit
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby kit » 20 Mar 2015 13:18

The Russians correctly assessed that reliability and maintenance are as important and india does have alternative s

vishvak
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby vishvak » 20 Mar 2015 17:41

Surely, then as reliability of Su-30MKI increases (to about 75% by year end), we will have better standards to measure upto for ANY imported aircrafts. Any lesser availability will not do after spending hard cash.

shaun
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby shaun » 20 Mar 2015 18:19

^^^^
After operating , manufacturing and overhauling sukhois for more than decade , 50% availability !!! what they could not do for a decade , they will suddenly increase the availability by such a big margin( 75%) within a year ???

No matter how much you flog , soviet engines were not meant to behave like their western counterparts , soviets/russia have a different war fighting philosophy and their products are in sync with that philosophy.

deejay
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Re: Su-30: News and Discussion - August 9 , 2014

Postby deejay » 20 Mar 2015 19:38

^^^ pandyan saar, in remote places, only crew are the air crew (mostly) and some army folks. Anyways, the responsibility always lies with the Captain of the aircraft, whoever may check. He / She signs for a very expensive machine.


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