Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

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Karan M
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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 30 May 2019 16:41

Overhaul is a given.

What we do have in our local/imported kitty so far are:
  1. 6 channel RWR to prevent Blanking Eagle eye (on order, in induction) and DR118 (trials)
  2. HBJ pod to replace Russian/Israeli jammers (status awaited)
  3. MAWS (ready for fitment, trials?)
  4. i-Derby ER (order yet to be placed)
  5. ASRAAM (2x Su-30s modified as testbed, initial integration work cleared, orders yet to be placed)
  6. Brahmos (orders placed)
  7. Spice 2000 (being added)
  8. Desi weapons - all in development but which will make a radical change to the Su-30: PGHSLD (450/500kg), GPS bombs (500kg/1000kg), Glide bombs (500kg-1Ton, 30km-100km range), NGARM, Rudra M2, SAAW
  9. New avionics architecture + 2x wide area displays (DARE has proposal ready)
  10. Software defined radio (orders placed, to replace/supplant existing Russian radios which are capable but lower bandwidth etc).

Additional "missing" items:
  1. New IRST (program for domestic one has merely received DAC clearance)
  2. Radar upgrades, run to Russia (which ideally IAF should have funded LRDE for, to at least progress domestic capability for the future)
  3. Engine upgrades (Russians are putting in 117S variants into Su-30 SM)
  4. New weapons from Russia e.g. VRLAAM for AWACS etc (RVV-BD, 300km range)
  5. Towed decoy package (a bunch available) + expendable decoys (eg Brite Cloud)

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Sumeet » 01 Jun 2019 01:56

Who is supplying MAWS for MKI upgrade ? Is it Radar based or IIR ?

Desi IRST will take long time to be integrated, is it possible to get PAK FA IRST in the mean time ?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Sid » 01 Jun 2019 02:22

^^There is RWR installed, but no MAWS. DRDO is developed a dual color MAWS for Super Su 30 upgrade program.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby abhik » 01 Jun 2019 11:50

Sumeet wrote:Who is supplying MAWS for MKI upgrade ? Is it Radar based or IIR ?

Desi IRST will take long time to be integrated, is it possible to get PAK FA IRST in the mean time ?


What is so special about the PAK FA IRST? Russians aren't known for having the best IR sensor tech no?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 03 Jun 2019 18:00


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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby gunnvant » 03 Jun 2019 18:37

Austin wrote:Vishnu Som wrote about MKI upgrade

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 7028307968


Mods, please delete/move if irrelevant. Opening tweet seems to suggest that the AESA is operational, quick google search suggests it started integration tests in 2015, https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-b ... hter-12777
Isn't the twitter thread a bit sensationalist?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 03 Jun 2019 18:50

Definitely sensationalist and sky is falling. :roll:

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby abhik » 03 Jun 2019 19:01

Standard scaremongering tactics to push for new equipment, expect some more articles on the same lines .

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JTull » 03 Jun 2019 21:25

Austin wrote:Vishnu Som wrote about MKI upgrade

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 7028307968


Seems lifafa courier service has restarted. Or perhaps someone can track any recent phoren yatra.

Let's avoid giving airtime to this guy.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby MeshaVishwas » 03 Jun 2019 22:50


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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 03 Jun 2019 23:30

MeshaVishwas wrote:IAF to equip 40 Su-30 MKIs with BrahMos cruise missile in next 3 years
https://zeenews.india.com/india/iaf-to-equip-40-su-30-mkis-with-brahmos-cruise-missile-in-next-3-years-2208745.html/amp



Are these 40 Su-30MKIs the special squadrons that were required a few years back?

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby MeshaVishwas » 03 Jun 2019 23:38

Not very sure but the numbers and lack of any news regarding "SFC looking at......." kinda news indicates that they could be specialised for the deterrence role.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby kit » 03 Jun 2019 23:50

so then what will the even more specilaised Rafales do ? .. in addtion to these specialised Su 30 s they are also nuclear capable ..that combo is an overwhelming force ..esp with the nuke tipped Brahmos.. dont think even uncle has deployed such a combo in South Asia

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 04 Jun 2019 00:17

Those 40 Su-30s can carry heavy centerline loads but will also be heavier, slower, less agile than regular MKIs. If additional EMP/EMI/EMC hardening is part of the package, they could also be ALA carriers. See discussion here.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Prithwiraj » 04 Jun 2019 06:30

Is it possible from Radar signature to differentiate between Regular Su-30MKI and Brahmosized Su-30MKI based on radars at the disposal of both western and eastern front adversaries

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby kit » 04 Jun 2019 22:59

Prithwiraj wrote:Is it possible from Radar signature to differentiate between Regular Su-30MKI and Brahmosized Su-30MKI based on radars at the disposal of both western and eastern front adversaries



i think quite a few have RCI reduction features ; bottom line its not advertised and no one is going to know..lets leave it at that

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby tsarkar » 04 Jun 2019 23:49

Prithwiraj wrote:Is it possible from Radar signature to differentiate between Regular Su-30MKI and Brahmosized Su-30MKI based on radars at the disposal of both western and eastern front adversaries

No. The fuselage strengthening is internal with no external changes to the outer mould line. Also the 42 fighters with BrahMos strengthening won’t be carrying BrahMos all the time to preserve airframe and engine fatigue life.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby tsarkar » 05 Jun 2019 00:13

Having a heavy load on a fighter is a bad idea increasing fatigue of a versatile multi role platform. Adding a booster to BrahMos or a longer range dedicated missile like Shourya or “tactical” Agni 4 is a much better option.

The Russian Tochka missiles are used for similar outcomes quite economically and effectively in Ukraine, Syria and Yemen. The older Scud used by Afghanistan Najibullah regime after Soviet withdrawal inflicted a crushing defeat to the Pakistanis when they mounted an invasion with regular army under Hamid Gul in the Battle of Jalalabad in 1989.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Bishwa » 05 Jun 2019 05:46

The battle of Jalalabad 1989 is documented in this WP article from that time.. The Pakistanis suffered badly then..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... ee8f2e99f8

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby ashishvikas » 09 Jul 2019 18:23

Indian Air Force seeking to acquire 18 more Su-30MKI fighters from Russia

https://www.janes.com/article/89763/ind ... rom-russia

[i]The Indian Air Force (IAF) is seeking to acquire an additional 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKI multirole fighter aircraft from Russia, according to Vladimir Drozhzhov, the deputy director of Russia's Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC).

Briefing reporters in Moscow on 8 July, Drozhzhov said that the FSMTC is "processing" a request from New Delhi to procure 18 more of these fighters for the IAF in kit form for assembly in India.

The platforms will supplement the 13 squadrons totalling 272 Su-30MKIs that the IAF intends to operate by 2020-21, thus taking to 14 the number of squadrons with this fighter type.

That said, the indigenous content in the HAL-built Su-30MKIs is around 50%, according to HAL sources.

Meanwhile, Drozhzhov said that Moscow is also processing New Delhi's requests to acquire 20 additional upgraded MiG-29UPG fighters.
[/i]

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 09 Jul 2019 18:42

So HAL will be making Su-30's for the next 2 years, That's 290 minus 8 crashes for Su-30s. Hope the next 36 we are building can carry Brahmos and we do some plans on upgrades.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Vivek K » 09 Jul 2019 22:57

ashishvikas wrote:Indian Air Force seeking to acquire 18 more Su-30MKI fighters from Russia

https://www.janes.com/article/89763/ind ... rom-russia

........
Meanwhile, Drozhzhov said that Moscow is also processing New Delhi's requests to acquire 20 additional upgraded MiG-29UPG fighters

Nyet!

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 09 Jul 2019 23:20

Vivek, if these purchases can retire a few MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons then I am all for it.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Ashokk » 10 Jul 2019 01:24

Indian Air Force’s Integration Of British ASRAAM Missile On Sukhoi Su-30 MKI Irks Russia
The Indian Air Force’s (IAF) move to integrate British Advanced Short Range Air-to-Air missile (ASRAAM) to Russian-origin Sukhoi Su-30 MKI fighter jets has not gone down well with the Moscow, reports LiveFist.

“No country would allow this,” said Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy director of Russia’s Federal Service of Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC). He said this while answering queries of a group of visiting Indian journalists at the Rosoboronexport offices in Moscow.

“This is mostly out of concern for the security of the technology. We are concerned about a foreign manufacturer invited to integrate anything on our equipment,” he added.

According to the report, Drozhzhov also indicated that Russia usually informed its customers that liabilities and after-sales support on supplied equipment stood jeopardised if the customer embarked on “any conrtact, modernisation or upgrade” that didn’t involve the “participation of the OEM.”

He also confirmed that Russia had received no formal communication from the IAF about the move.

As per the report, IAF is looking to replace the Russian-made Vympel R-73 missile with the ASRAAM in phases, and then standardise the British missile across its fleet of fighter aircraft.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cybaru » 10 Jul 2019 02:44

Rakesh wrote:Vivek, if these purchases can retire a few MiG-21 and MiG-27 squadrons then I am all for it.


IMO anything that helps keep the type in the inventory is ok! More mig29 if can be inducted in a year and a half helping retire more Mig-21s would be awesome. More LCA should always be the first option, but adding more mirages/mig29/mki isn't a bad idea either. Instead of 18/20 MKIs, the order should be for another 18/20 more MKI's (total 40 more). This will help alleviate force depletions for a long while and help stabilize the MK1A and Mk2 lines.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Vivek K » 10 Jul 2019 04:48

Rakesh - read about the Russian reaction to British missiles being added to “our” aircraft!! And this is for deep TOT!

So why waste money on foreign fighters? Build more MK1s!! Add another line. Have the freedom to add whatever weapon or hardware to “our” aircraft!!

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Katare » 10 Jul 2019 07:35

gunnvant wrote:
Austin wrote:Vishnu Som wrote about MKI upgrade

https://twitter.com/VishnuNDTV/status/1 ... 7028307968


Mods, please delete/move if irrelevant. Opening tweet seems to suggest that the AESA is operational, quick google search suggests it started integration tests in 2015, https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-b ... hter-12777
Isn't the twitter thread a bit sensationalist?


Opening tweet says “ a prototype fitted with AESA radar” in what world can this be read as AESA operational?

Some amount of sensationalism is needed to get the attention of larger audience and authorities. Typical massa land jingo tactic....

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 11 Jul 2019 01:10

Sometimes, journalists love sensation. Pity Vishnu is trying a similar tactic, he was a tad more sober. The MKI has seen constant improvement.... As has the BARS, this is not the Bars of 2001.

An upgraded BARS will be as good or better than the Irbis in many ways. The Irbis was a result of a more powerful TWT, something that the russkis were working on in the 90s but managed successfully around 2008. They managed to increase the transmit power to 20 kw from 7 on the BARS iirc. Don't see why this or similar solution can't be easily don'e on the bars since the Irbis is an evolved BARS to begin with.

BTW there are indications that something of this nature has already happened.... Per some Russian literature.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 19 Jul 2019 03:57

HAL Doubles LCA Tejas Production Capacity, Sukhoi SU-30 MKI Repair And Overhaul Capability Enhanced
https://swarajyamag.com/insta/hal-doubl ... y-enhanced

HAL has also enhanced its repair and overhaul (ROH) capability of the Sukhoi Su-30 MKI aircraft along with expediting the integration of the air variant of BrahMos supersonic missiles to the frontline fighter at its Nashik unit. HAL has also proposed an enhancement of ROH capability for the AL-31FP engines used in the Su-30 MKIs along with plans to establish ROH facilities for RD-33 MK engines of MiG-29K/KUB fighter aircraft.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby naird » 21 Jul 2019 10:08

Great interview of Su 30 pilot from hushkit. I sincerely hope more such interviews come out especially of Balakot and counter air missions. It would inspire generations to come.

https://hushkit.net/2019/07/20/flying-fighting-in-the-sukhoi-su-30-flanker-a-pilot-interview/

What was your most memorable mission?

“Well there have been many over the years but a few that stand out are as follows: –

(a) DACT with F-16 Block 60 of Royal Singapore Air Force.

The strongest adversary that we could possibly face in our life as a fighter pilot was the F-16 of PAF (for obvious reasons). So the excitement of facing an F-16, even in a mock combat was unbelievable. The weight of the mission was overbearing! Perhaps that’s what makes it special. As the combat commenced, we manoeuvred for our lives and in very little time the situation was in our favour! The desperate calls from the F-16, “Flare, Flare, Flare!”

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby srai » 21 Jul 2019 15:36

^^^
It’s a must read!

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby MeshaVishwas » 21 Jul 2019 22:45

Hush Kit person needs to do spell checks and also do mandatory editing.
RSAF is Republic of Singapore Air force!

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby JayS » 06 Aug 2019 23:25

Some data points, thru HV Thakur.

https://twitter.com/somnath1978/status/ ... 1113870337

The Mission Computer software of Su-30 Upgrade will be Indian. We'll overcome many other Legacy limitations during the upgrade.

Thanks to project Vetrivel, all Mission Computers are produced at HAL Hyderabad. All portions of code which behave like black boxes will be Indigenised during the upgrade.

Astra is integrated completely by the Indian side, without any foreign partnership. Likewise, we can integrate any third-party missile and it's data link in Su-30 MKI.

Re Astra range
It's presently in AIM-120C-5 class. Better than R-77-1 in every respect. Maturity and surety of the missile is V important to get a good kill probability. We have some distance to go there. But not very long. ASTRA Mk2 with Solid-Fuel Ducted RamJet has a very promising prospects

No sure why he links Astra Mk2 with SFDR.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby kit » 07 Aug 2019 00:18

Does than mean India can put in an indian or israeli AESA radar into the MKI , thinking of a super 2052 ! .. also by extension Meteor BVRAM

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cybaru » 07 Aug 2019 01:59

Probably means dual pulse motor.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 13 Aug 2019 01:59

kit wrote:Sukhoi S70 wingman flying

<video snipped>


wrong thread. should be put into the Russian weapons thread, not the Su-30MKI thread.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 13 Aug 2019 02:14

Thanks for pointing out Kartik. I moved the post to the Russian thread.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Bhaskar_T » 14 Aug 2019 12:11


HAL pitches for 4 more squadrons of Su-30MKI
The proposal for manufacturing 72 more fighter jets to add to the current order for 272 was made by the HAL but officials said that the air force has not been keen due to budgetary issues. - By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Updated: Aug 14, 2019, 10.01 AM IST

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/hal-pitches-for-4-more-squadrons-of-su-30mki/amp_articleshow/70668419.cms

State-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has pitched for an order to manufacture four additional squadrons of the Su-30 MKI jets to quickly meet gaps in fighter squadron strength but the air force seems to be only keen on ordering replacements for aircraft that have been lost in accidents.

The proposal for manufacturing 72 more fighter jets to add to the current order for 272 was made by the HAL but officials said that the air force has not been keen due to budgetary issues. HAL is hopeful that an order for at least 10 additional aircraft is placed this year so that its Sukhoi manufacturing plant in Nasik does not fall idle.

The air force, which is awaiting the delivery of its first new Rafale fighter jets next month, is keen on adding to its order for 36 of the French origin aircraft, with sources telling ET that it requires at least two more squadrons.

“If we are looking at a strength of 42 squadrons for the air force, the fastest means of getting it is to go for more Light Combat Aircraft and the Su-30 MKI jets. We are currently making 12 of the fighters per year at the Nasik plant,” HAL chairman R Madhavan told ET.

The company has shared cost breakups to manufacture one, two, three or four squadrons, leaving it for the air force to take a call on the numbers that it wants. Sources have told ET that as of now, the air force is only looking at an order of 8-10 more of the jets to make up for accident losses.

A worry for HAL is that if orders for the jets are not placed this year, its manufacturing line in Nasik will go defunct and the base of Indian vendors that it has created over the past decades will get disrupted. HAL currently produces the jets for around ?450 crore each.

“If the order does not come this year, there will be a two year gap before the line can be restarted as we have to order kits and other parts. The vendor base will be out of business and the ramp up after the gap will be both costly and time consuming,” Madhavan said.

HAL’s proposal, which his currently being discussed with the defence ministry, is to supply the additional aircraft at prices that have already been negotiated for older orders by adding the standard annual escalation.

“This is the fastest method to get more fighter jets. The attrition rate of the older MiG 21s and Jaguar jets is very high. Even if a contract is signed with a foreign manufacturer, it will take at least three years to get the first aircraft,” the HAL chief said, adding that the company is awaiting responses to its proposals from the air force and ministry of defence.

The air force, which is awaiting the delivery of its first new Rafale fighter jets next month, is keen on adding to its order for 36 of the French origin aircraft, with sources telling ET that it requires at least two more squadrons.

The concern being a rapidly decreasing squadron strength that currently lies at 30 but is expected to dip rapidly over the next two years as the MiG 21 and 27 series of fighters are retired from service. An ongoing process to select a foreign partner and Indian manufacturer to make 114 new fighter jets under ‘Make in India’ expected to take at least five years and the air force’s worry is that its conventional edge could be blunted due to a lack of numbers.


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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby chola » 14 Aug 2019 16:06

Bhaskar_T wrote:

A worry for HAL is that if orders for the jets are not placed this year, its manufacturing line in Nasik will go defunct and the base of Indian vendors that it has created over the past decades will get disrupted. HAL currently produces the jets for around ?450 crore each.

“If the order does not come this year, there will be a two year gap before the line can be restarted as we have to order kits and other parts. The vendor base will be out of business and the ramp up after the gap will be both costly and time consuming,” Madhavan said.



What good is making 70% of the MKI when it is tied to some damn contract with a phoren nation? Why can't that line in Nasik be used to build an indigenous aircraft? Hell even an desi Flanker clone. I don't give rat's arse if it is illegal or not. Far better than letting a hard fought production line and, more importantly, a precious local eco-system die on the vine.

I am so tired of us paying for "partnerships" and "ToT" that ends after a contract run and we are left blank sheet again and having to pay the next set of goras for every new goddam project.

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Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Aug 2019 23:35

The above report most likely means that we will see more MKIs one way or another. If the order is only for replacements, expect a rafale order soon. If not, rafales may wait.


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