Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 16 Sep 2020 07:50

Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/TheWolfpackIN/status/1305743980018180096?s=20 ---> Garuthmaa guided glide bomb with 100 km range has been successfully integrated with IAF's Su-30MKIs, thus enhancing the jet's SOW (Stand-Off Weapon) capabilities significantly. New jam proof SDRs (BNET-AR) for secure communications and data linking have also been integrated onboard Su-30MKIs.

Will the ODL implementation be through these SDRs? Seems unlikely.
Last edited by Rakesh on 16 Sep 2020 18:13, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Please do not repost the pictures in your reply. Thank You.

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 19663
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 16 Sep 2020 16:41

Yes it will be. That was the plan anyhow. A pilot project is underway.

Thakur_B
BRFite
Posts: 1699
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 17 Sep 2020 07:00

Ok, thanks. Will this be compatible with IN link2?

Sumeet
BRFite
Posts: 1532
Joined: 22 May 2002 11:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Sumeet » 17 Sep 2020 09:08

So in the news its mentioned they are getting HMD ? I thought those were anyways integrated in MKI. Any one knows which HMD are those -- Elbit Systems Targo 2 ?

Hope these BNET+ SDR from Astra-Rafael system also enable better integration with Phalcon AWACS. On that note they should also go ahead and add SatCom to MKI (for example: https://www.iai.co.il/p/elk-1882-nc2 ELK-1882 NC2 Global Internetwork Communication Grid)

@karan what is the timeline for ODL project ? It has been in talks since 2009 when IAI/Elta bagged the project and now we are in 2020 still no results. I wonder what is going on. What is the cause of delay -- babus, MoF, MoD, IAF, PSUs or all of them ?

https://www.domain-b.com/defence/air_sp ... tract.html

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7926
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 17 Sep 2020 22:14

Sumeet wrote:So in the news its mentioned they are getting HMD ? I thought those were anyways integrated in MKI. Any one knows which HMD are those -- Elbit Systems Targo 2 ?

MKI has the old Sura-K HMS which it came with. This is a basic system useful for off-boresight shots using the R-73 and little else. It has been long superseded by more modern HMDS systems like the DASH (used on the Tejas and M2k), Thales TopOwl/TopSight (used on our Mig-29s - IN and IAF Upgrade) and the JHMCS (used by the pakis on their F-16's). These systems show a lot more information to the pilot than the old Russian systems. The MKI is overdue for an upgrade (for a lot of things). Sura-K is also used on the Bisons but they are on their way out and don't need new ones.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5325
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 21 Sep 2020 15:46

Twitter link

Gorgeous shot!

Image

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12277
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 21 Sep 2020 16:40

Unusual payload, just bombs and no AAM- even the Mig 29 landing at Leh was without armament. this looks like a Bombing run on the Test range. Wonder if IAF is husbanding AAM life for when things get hot with either the Pakis or the Chinis.

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1162
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby rkhanna » 21 Sep 2020 20:16

Aditya_V wrote:Unusual payload, just bombs and no AAM- even the Mig 29 landing at Leh was without armament. this looks like a Bombing run on the Test range. Wonder if IAF is husbanding AAM life for when things get hot with either the Pakis or the Chinis.


Could be part of a more complex mix of AC trying out different tactics ?

rpartha
BRFite
Posts: 106
Joined: 24 Sep 2016 00:04

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby rpartha » 22 Sep 2020 00:33

Where is this taken? So beautiful...

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9506
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 22 Sep 2020 00:44

Looks like Jodhpur, Rajasthan. But I could be wrong. Happy to be corrected.

I believe No 31 Lions Squadron is based there. They operate the Rambha.

V_Raman
BRFite
Posts: 741
Joined: 04 Sep 2008 22:25

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby V_Raman » 22 Sep 2020 00:46

photoshopped background i think - looks like baahubali palace :D

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7926
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 22 Sep 2020 01:18

V_Raman wrote:photoshopped background i think - looks like baahubali palace :D


Rakesh wrote:Looks like Jodhpur, Rajasthan. But I could be wrong. Happy to be corrected.

I believe No 31 Lions Squadron is based there. They operate the Rambha.



Yes. That's Jodhpur's Umaid Bhavan Palace in the background. Not photoshopped. That palace is a hotel now. You can actually live there if you wish.

Anshuman.Kumar
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 52
Joined: 08 Sep 2016 20:16

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Anshuman.Kumar » 22 Sep 2020 01:19

What is the status of The deal to procure 12 MKIs and 21 Mig29.
Two visits of Moscow done by RNS

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7926
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 22 Sep 2020 01:21

Aditya_V wrote:Unusual payload, just bombs and no AAM- even the Mig 29 landing at Leh was without armament. this looks like a Bombing run on the Test range. Wonder if IAF is husbanding AAM life for when things get hot with either the Pakis or the Chinis.

Aircraft from Jodhpur are unlikely to be involved in operational flying in Ladakh. Also, we don't know when this pic was taken. Might be from back during Gagan Shakti or some other firepower demo or just a training sortie.

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9506
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 22 Sep 2020 01:44

Anshuman.Kumar wrote:What is the status of The deal to procure 12 MKIs and 21 Mig29.
Two visits of Moscow done by RNS

Deal signed and done. They will arrive in a few years.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7926
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 22 Sep 2020 01:56

Rakesh wrote:
Anshuman.Kumar wrote:What is the status of The deal to procure 12 MKIs and 21 Mig29.
Two visits of Moscow done by RNS

Deal signed and done. They will arrive in a few years.

I must have missed that. I thought only DAC clearance was obtained. Any link saar for contract signing?

Rakesh
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9506
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 22 Sep 2020 02:24

Aiyoo Saar, I mistakenly assumed the DAC clearance meant it got approved. I did not realize that the contract has not been signed :oops:

So contract has still not been signed, as per this article from Aug 27, 2020.

Russia to sign Su-30, MiG-29 Jets Contracts with India by Year End
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/27717 ... 2kL33lKg2w

Let me go do my penance.

nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 7926
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 22 Sep 2020 02:33

"Contract by year end" is standard babuspeak response. Even the LCH and Tejas Mk1A are in "Contract by year-end" state. Doesn't mean there will be an actual contract by year end. In December they will change it to end of fiscal year, then Q1 of next and so on. Whenever it happens, I hope we see the Mk1A and LCH contracts first.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8691
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Sep 2020 02:43

MoD is probably talking about end of fiscal and not calendar year. So contract by March 2021?

Unless an aircraft maker has an assembly line open like the Rafale, F-18, and F-35, it will take a minimum of 12 weeks to get parts and supplies ordered and delivered to begin production.

It’s not too late to cancel the contract and order an additional 60 more Tejas.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4513
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Sep 2020 04:04

nachiket wrote:"Contract by year end" is standard babuspeak response. Even the LCH and Tejas Mk1A are in "Contract by year-end" state. Doesn't mean there will be an actual contract by year end. In December they will change it to end of fiscal year, then Q1 of next and so on. Whenever it happens, I hope we see the Mk1A and LCH contracts first.

WTH takes so long. And this during wartime.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5325
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 22 Sep 2020 15:27

Mort Walker wrote:MoD is probably talking about end of fiscal and not calendar year. So contract by March 2021?

Unless an aircraft maker has an assembly line open like the Rafale, F-18, and F-35, it will take a minimum of 12 weeks to get parts and supplies ordered and delivered to begin production.

It’s not too late to cancel the contract and order an additional 60 more Tejas.


And when will HAL deliver those 60? They're still at 8 a/c per year with a new line for the trainers to start rolling out a/c from end 2021. The IAF as it is has enough risk to it's induction schedules with HAL, they will simply not be foolish enough to expect HAL to ramp up to 24-30 Tejas fighters per year any time soon.

Su-30MKIs will be delivered by HAL Nasik from the existing line that was delivering ~13 a/c per year, with some parts being supplied by Russia. The MiG-29UPGs are mostly built up, so refurbishing and delivering them will take a fraction of the time it'll take to build and deliver new jets.

dinesh_kimar
BRFite
Posts: 512
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby dinesh_kimar » 22 Sep 2020 19:52

I have recently read that these Mig 29 planes are "sparingly used". Apparently, they were bought by Algeria a few years back, then rejected and returned to the Russians due to structural damage in the air frames. The Russians then made a deal to replace these Planes with Sukhoi 30 aircraft and took back the aircraft.

If this is the case, I think we are better off buying 12+ 21 MKI.

Hell, just make a deal for 270 more MKI, to replace old Mig 21 and Mig 27 squadrons?

We can push up localisation to 75-80%, and better / cheaper than Mig 29 with Russian upgrade kits.

I believe from reading BRF that Su-30MKI is more capable and versatile than Mig 29.

Mort Walker
BRF Oldie
Posts: 8691
Joined: 31 May 2004 11:31
Location: The rings around Uranus.

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Mort Walker » 22 Sep 2020 20:46

Investment into HAL must be made for the greater good. Buying structurally deficient Russian junk does no one any good.

LakshmanPST
BRFite
Posts: 259
Joined: 05 Apr 2019 18:23

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby LakshmanPST » 23 Sep 2020 08:04

dinesh_kimar wrote:I have recently read that these Mig 29 planes are "sparingly used". Apparently, they were bought by Algeria a few years back, then rejected and returned to the Russians due to structural damage in the air frames. The Russians then made a deal to replace these Planes with Sukhoi 30 aircraft and took back the aircraft.

If this is the case, I think we are better off buying 12+ 21 MKI.

Hell, just make a deal for 270 more MKI, to replace old Mig 21 and Mig 27 squadrons?

We can push up localisation to 75-80%, and better / cheaper than Mig 29 with Russian upgrade kits.

I believe from reading BRF that Su-30MKI is more capable and versatile than Mig 29.


AFAIK, these 21 MIG29s are moth-balled, unused & partially finished airframes... Not the jets delivered to and taken back from Algeria...
These airframes will be finished and upgraded before delivery to IAF...

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5325
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 23 Sep 2020 11:55

dinesh_kimar wrote:I have recently read that these Mig 29 planes are "sparingly used". Apparently, they were bought by Algeria a few years back, then rejected and returned to the Russians due to structural damage in the air frames. The Russians then made a deal to replace these Planes with Sukhoi 30 aircraft and took back the aircraft.

If this is the case, I think we are better off buying 12+ 21 MKI.

Hell, just make a deal for 270 more MKI, to replace old Mig 21 and Mig 27 squadrons?

We can push up localisation to 75-80%, and better / cheaper than Mig 29 with Russian upgrade kits.

I believe from reading BRF that Su-30MKI is more capable and versatile than Mig 29.


Incorrect. There was no "structural damage". The Algerians were miffed that many parts on the supposedly new build MiG-29SMTs were actually built in the early 1990s and re-used on them. Back in the 1990s, prior to the Soviet collapse, MiG-29 production was in full swing.

So they demanded that the Russians take those MiG-29SMTs back and the Russians did so. Those SMTs will truly have a lot of life left in them and as such, will be in pretty good condition. Their vintage is newer than the IAF MiG-29s that were upgraded to the UPG standard.

We have more than adequate numbers of MKIs. Adding 21 MiG-29UPGs makes sense given the delivery timeframe, cost and the fact that the UPG is considered pretty darn good in the IAF. We should see them serving on for another 15 years easily.

Aditya_V
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12277
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 16:25

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 23 Sep 2020 11:59

LakshmanPST wrote:
dinesh_kimar wrote:I have recently read that these Mig 29 planes are "sparingly used". Apparently, they were bought by Algeria a few years back, then rejected and returned to the Russians due to structural damage in the air frames. The Russians then made a deal to replace these Planes with Sukhoi 30 aircraft and took back the aircraft.

If this is the case, I think we are better off buying 12+ 21 MKI.

Hell, just make a deal for 270 more MKI, to replace old Mig 21 and Mig 27 squadrons?

We can push up localisation to 75-80%, and better / cheaper than Mig 29 with Russian upgrade kits.

I believe from reading BRF that Su-30MKI is more capable and versatile than Mig 29.


AFAIK, these 21 MIG29s are moth-balled, unused & partially finished airframes... Not the jets delivered to and taken back from Algeria...
These airframes will be finished and upgraded before delivery to IAF...



I think, the IAF/MOD have also done thier part of telling half truths here, otherwise these jets would have been caught in the Single Vendor MRCA circus, this is what happenned when the IAF and Govt of day thought they could build 126 M-2000-5, when the BIF Eco system struck back with Tehelka which started the whole MMRCA circus.

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5325
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 23 Sep 2020 12:04

LakshmanPST wrote:
AFAIK, these 21 MIG29s are moth-balled, unused & partially finished airframes... Not the jets delivered to and taken back from Algeria...
These airframes will be finished and upgraded before delivery to IAF...


It is still unclear whether these are the former Algerian SMTs that were returned to Russia or partially built Soviet era MiG-29s. AFM reported it as being the former.

Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4513
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 24 Sep 2020 07:52

Kartik wrote:
LakshmanPST wrote:
AFAIK, these 21 MIG29s are moth-balled, unused & partially finished airframes... Not the jets delivered to and taken back from Algeria...
These airframes will be finished and upgraded before delivery to IAF...


It is still unclear whether these are the former Algerian SMTs that were returned to Russia or partially built Soviet era MiG-29s. AFM reported it as being the former.

Algerian smts were inducted by the vvs iirc

Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5325
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30MKI: News and Discussion - August 9, 2014

Postby Kartik » 24 Sep 2020 17:16

Cain Marko wrote:
Kartik wrote:
It is still unclear whether these are the former Algerian SMTs that were returned to Russia or partially built Soviet era MiG-29s. AFM reported it as being the former.

Algerian smts were inducted by the vvs iirc


Yes they were. But it remained the only VVS unit flying SMTs AFAIK. There is a clear preference in the VVS for Su-27 variants over MiG-29 variants.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Anoop, Bharadwaj, hemant_sai, Kakarat, Prem Kumar, ssaravanan and 92 guests