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Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Kersi
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Kersi » 29 Sep 2017 13:14

shiv wrote:
Kersi wrote:For those who know the story "A Tale of Two Hydraulic Systems" (viewtopic.php?t=334). A lot of person of this story, were present in the same room, each of them telling us the story. It seemed we are actually present in the same room.

The Golden Days of BR Meets

I have photos of that meet. The funniest part was the description of one Jag pilot (among those whom Kersi mentions) of the sedate way in which Late Baldev Singh had done the Jaguar flying display in the earlier Aero India show - "He took off, did a circle around whole of Karnataka and then returned". This was probably 2001
I made a video of that tale of two hydraulics systems story.
"Tale of two hydraulics systems"


Could have been Sqdn Ldr Kalyan Palit of the "Tale of Two Hydraulic Systems"

Shiv please e-mail me the pics on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l DOT c o m

I wonder what I looked 17 years ago !!! Some more hair

Rakesh
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 29 Sep 2017 18:04

SSridhar wrote:ArjunPandit, only oldies know that. Mithai was promised if a certain asset joined the Indian Navy. The promise was to equal the displacement tonnage of the asset. The event happened. We have all been waiting ever since for the mithai! :lol:

My goodness, you remember that detail! Thanks Sridhar...just when I thought everyone forgot that part. Thanks :lol:

Manish_P
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 29 Sep 2017 18:37

Kersi wrote:
shiv wrote:I have photos of that meet. The funniest part was the description of one Jag pilot (among those whom Kersi mentions) of the sedate way in which Late Baldev Singh had done the Jaguar flying display in the earlier Aero India show - "He took off, did a circle around whole of Karnataka and then returned". This was probably 2001
I made a video of that tale of two hydraulics systems story.
"Tale of two hydraulics systems"


Could have been Sqdn Ldr Kalyan Palit of the "Tale of Two Hydraulic Systems"

Shiv please e-mail me the pics on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l DOT c o m

I wonder what I looked 17 years ago !!! Some more hair


Wow. Any chance us noobs can see some photos of the meets ? If it is not invading/intruding on the privacy of the individuals.

ArjunPandit
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 29 Sep 2017 19:06

Kersi wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:What's this mithai story??? I always thought it's related to some missile or nuclear thing.. There's was some thread with mithai in name too
Seems like there's more than meets the eye.. Seems like admiral Saar didn't treat others


Admiral Rakesh promised to distribute mithai equal to its weight when the first Akula joins Indian Navy. We are all STILL waiting for the mithai.

he seems be trying to get a LCA level 1000K weight reduction
******************
or may be an Arjun (not me the arjun tank) style weight reduction
Last edited by ArjunPandit on 29 Sep 2017 19:48, edited 1 time in total.

Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 29 Sep 2017 19:14

^^^ :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

negi
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby negi » 29 Sep 2017 19:14

Lot of people made promises , people remember Admiral's because when the promise was made no one thought that it would materialize. Some who shall not be named even talked about running the streets of Blore without clothes :)

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Bala Vignesh » 29 Sep 2017 19:15

Hmmm interesting reminiscence going on here!! In any case, the new guard joins the old, and will continue to rightfully demand what was promised by Admiral Saab!!

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 05 Oct 2017 17:45

We too are upgrading our BMP-2s.Any similarities to these upgrades?
http://www.janes.com/article/74619/russ ... bmd-2-ifvs
Russia upgrades BMP-2 and BMD-2 IFVs

Nikolai Novichkov - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly
04 October 2017

Russia’s Ministry of Defence (MoD) has signed a 10-year contract with Tula-based Instrument Design Bureau (KBP), a subsidiary of Rostec’s High-Precision Weapons holding, for the delivery of 540 upgraded BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicles (IFVs) and BMD-2 airborne IFVs, according to Deputy Defence Minister Yuri Borisov.The BMP-2M IFV will have four ready-to-fire Kornet anti-tank guided missiles in two twin launchers on each side of the turret. (Nikolai Novichkov)
The BMP-2M IFV will have four ready-to-fire Kornet anti-tank guided missiles in two twin launchers on each side of the turret. (Nikolai Novichkov)

The contract for the modernisation of the IFVs is one of the first large state defence orders under the new State Armament Programme for 2018-2025 (GPV-2025).

The BMP-2 IFV will be fitted with the B05Ya01 Berezhok turret, fitted with four ready-to-launch 9M133 Kornet series of anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) in two twin launchers on each side of the turret as well as the standard 30 mm 2A42 cannon, an AG-30 automatic grenade launcher, and 7.62 mm PKT machine gun. The ATGM launchers are fitted with independent electromechanical vertical drives. The BPK-2-42 sight will be replaced by a combined gunner’s sighting system with independent line-of-sight stabilisation, day and thermal imagers, a laser rangefinder, and a missile guidance channel.The upgraded BMD-2M IFV will have a similar sensor suite to that of the BMP-2M and a launcher with two ready-to-fire Kornet ATGMs. (Nikolai Novichkov)
The upgraded BMD-2M IFV will have a similar sensor suite to that of the BMP-2M and a launcher with two ready-to-fire Kornet ATGMs. (Nikolai Novichkov)

The upgraded IFV, designated BMP-2M, will have a digital onboard computer coupled to the sensor suite, a thermal imaging automatic target tracker, and an independent vertical drive and an ammunition load of 300 grenades, and an independent commander’s panoramic sight with independent dual axis stabilisation, as well as a TV camera and a laser range finder. The BMP-2M will also be fitted with a digital weapon stabiliser. The additional mounted weapons and equipment will increase the weight of the vehicle by up to 500 kg, including anti-tank missiles and 30 mm grenades weighing nearly 260 kg.

Want to read more? For analysis on this article and access to all our insight content, please enquire about our subscription options ihs.com/contact


vasu raya
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby vasu raya » 06 Oct 2017 23:55

Is TATA Kestrel the future replacement for BMPs? Namica's, Munthra's are all based on BMP as of now...

Picklu
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Picklu » 07 Oct 2017 01:08

Bala Vignesh wrote:Hmmm interesting reminiscence going on here!! In any case, the new guard joins the old, and will continue to rightfully demand what was promised by Admiral Saab!!


Blame it to the delay in procurement system of MoD. :evil:

When the promise was made, Admiral sir was single. Unfortunately, due to the usual delay that haunts the armed forces, said Admiral got enslaved er I mean married.

Now that a proper SHQ is in place, all old promises are null and void, mithai koi aur kha raha hai :mrgreen:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 07 Oct 2017 02:28

^^ LOL, Rakesh any comments? Do we forget all hopes of mithai?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 07 Oct 2017 08:27

The boat sank Saar. I was torpedoed on the way in by SHQ :lol:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 07 Oct 2017 08:29

FICV Tangle – Needs Early Resolution
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... esolution/

By Lt Gen Prakash Katoch (Retd), 04 October 2017

Tata's Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV)

Image

Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 07 Oct 2017 09:43

That looks like the German weasal tanket.

Manish_P
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 07 Oct 2017 12:57

^^ Pic is of the Rheinmetall Wiesel shown at Defexpo 2012

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 07 Oct 2017 17:29

Aiyoo! Sorry Saars. I just copied the image from the picture as is. Lesson learnt!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya G » 08 Oct 2017 02:59

vasu raya wrote:Is TATA Kestrel the future replacement for BMPs? Namica's, Munthra's are all based on BMP as of now...


No. Tata Kestrel is not a BMP replacement. At best, it is a recce jeep or BRDM replacement. I am not sure if we have dedicated ATGM units but possibly it is one such use case

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ParGha » 08 Oct 2017 15:53

Aditya G wrote:No. Tata Kestrel is not a BMP replacement. At best, it is a recce jeep or BRDM replacement. I am not sure if we have dedicated ATGM units but possibly it is one such use case


The Brigade of the Guards provides ATGM detachments as needed. However this is too big just for an ATGM team. It is more fit for the existing mechanized (wheeled) battalions, the Presidential Bodyguard Cavalry, future such raisings, specialized rear-area NBC containment units.

Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 08 Oct 2017 16:30

Krestal has the potential to play the role of a BTR in the Indian army. As there is a scope for such a vehicle in large numbers beyond the 2600 BMP supplements.

The ia also needs to replace the skot 64 .

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 12:42

Yes even though it has ltd. terrain traction, a BTR has it's uses and would be cheaper than a tracked AV. Most major armies like Russia have both.We should go ahead with the Kestrel for a start. A journey of a thousand +indigenous AV begins with the first order!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2017 20:54

Aditya G wrote:
vasu raya wrote:Is TATA Kestrel the future replacement for BMPs? Namica's, Munthra's are all based on BMP as of now...


No. Tata Kestrel is not a BMP replacement. At best, it is a recce jeep or BRDM replacement. I am not sure if we have dedicated ATGM units but possibly it is one such use case

The Kestrel is not the replacement for the BMP. But it will eat into some of the latters orders. Wheels are better than tracks in mountain regions and much much more service-able too.

ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 13 Oct 2017 05:29


Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2017 11:57

Ramana,an excellent read.The word "cost-effective" being the reason why Germany lost the tank war,stands out. Their "bespoke" sty;e of tank production cost them the war.The Soviet "expendable" tanks/parts philosophy after studying the lifespan of tanks on the battlefield dramatically brought down both costs and prod. time.The US simply threw as much money as it could at the problem,huge orders bringing down costs,etc.

This is a fundamental that the 3 services should embrace as their first rule when seeking a weapon system its "cost-effectiveness". Using the same platforms for various purposes continued during the Cold War too.For ex.,the same dunking sonar of the KA-28 was on the Pauk ASW corvettes. Same hull for Pauks and tarantula missile corvettes.The IN and CG would do well to employ such a philosophy as we have so many naval/CG vessels of almost the same dpl.,but with different hulls,etc.The IAF in its search for extra aircraft should study this article carefully,as well s our project heads of the LCA!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby KBDagha » 14 Oct 2017 23:05


srai
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby srai » 15 Oct 2017 13:33



Arjun Armored Repair & Recovery Vehicle (ARRV)
Image

Anyone have good photos from the handover ceremony?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rupak » 15 Oct 2017 13:58

ramana wrote:Philip and Singha read this

http://www.historynet.com/profiles-cold ... -tanks.htm


Ramana,
Thanks for sharing. The German philosophy was very evident in the design of the HF-24, which I've heard from more than one source entailed a very complex manufacturing process when compared to the Gnat and MiG-21.

Tsarkar maybe able to shed more light, but I've also heard from people at GRSE and MDL that the Indian Navy's changing design requirements adds to time taken by yards and deliver and also leads to large cost overruns. I've never understood why the Navy can't standardize on a single OPV or XFAC design.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 16 Oct 2017 00:28

Wow, Rupak...where have you been? :) Long time Saar!

After visiting Arjun unit in Sept, Defence Minister Sitharaman briefed today by developer lab.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/919146879513911296

Defence Minister Sitharaman scoping out an Arjun Mk.II test vehicle yesterday at CVRDE, Avadi.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/919436496146436096

Defence Minister Sitharaman with the Muntra-S in-development unmanned ground vehicle.
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/919437112335917056

nam
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nam » 16 Oct 2017 19:07

In one of the DRDO poster on T72 CIA, they mentioned the armor as Kanchan.

I don't know if they are referring to the recent upgrade involving use of ERA MK2. However it is interesting.

Use of Kanchan means our T72 don't have the monkey model steel armor anymore. They have composite armor.

With ERA MK2 , they are now almost equivalent to T90 is protection level.

Hope some improvements have been made to internals as well.

ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 25 Oct 2017 00:35

US Army showcases new Abrams variant:

https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2017/1 ... 507650688/

brar_w
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby brar_w » 25 Oct 2017 00:45

Interestingly, it would be the V2s that would be getting the APS ahead of the V3s.


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