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Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 20 Jun 2017 16:43

Counting the no of road wheel's it looks like the engineering support version of Arjun.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 21 Jun 2017 02:04

kurup wrote:Image

^^^^^^ Please id the vehicle ???



Well are you going to tell us ?
Cause I am dying out of curiosity

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 21 Jun 2017 02:05

Khalsa ji...I believe he wants to find out himself. I don't think he is asking a pop quiz.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby srai » 21 Jun 2017 07:51

kurup wrote:Image

^^^^^^ Please id the vehicle ???

Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby kurup » 21 Jun 2017 17:23

Khalsa wrote:Well are you going to tell us ?
Cause I am dying out of curiosity


I am also curiously waiting for the answer .... :D

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby kurup » 21 Jun 2017 17:26

srai wrote:Image


You sure .... bcoz the ARRV doesnot look anything like the vehicle in the pic .

srai
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby srai » 21 Jun 2017 20:18

^^^
The model you posted looks like an AARV.

The camouflage vertical lines (dark brown or dark green) on the side make it look different by making it look like multiple compartments. It has a tractor bucket in the front and backside has a open top flatbed with stuff. Anyone can find a bigger photo of that display model?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 21 Jun 2017 20:50

Is that a tracked version of Atulya?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 22 Jun 2017 02:29

Marten wrote:Is that a tracked version of Atulya?

What is Atulya ?


Another thing to consider
Is that a machine gun or a crane I see pointing left at an almost angle of 45 Degrees.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 22 Jun 2017 08:16

Khalsa wrote:
Marten wrote:Is that a tracked version of Atulya?

What is Atulya ?


Another thing to consider
Is that a machine gun or a crane I see pointing left at an almost angle of 45 Degrees.


Atulya is a mobile AESA FCR for air defence.

That definitely looks like HMG to me.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 22 Jun 2017 09:25

So is it a tracked command center or is that flat area indicative of a folded in radar -- meaning some air defence concept that is under development?
Image
Which of these?
CVRDE
Tracked Combat Vehicles Products:
Products:
Main Battle Tanks
Self Propelled Artillery Gun

Tracked Vehicles:
Carrier Mortar Tracked (CMT)
Armoured Ambulance
Combat Improved Ajeya
Ground support Vehicles for Missile Programme
Bridge Layer Tanks
Armoured Repair & Recovery Vehicles
Carrier Command Post Tracked

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 05 Jul 2017 12:46


Interfax-AVN - Russia has signed a contract for the modernization of one thousand T-72 tanks to India, it said in a public annual report
"Uralvagonzavod".

According to the report, the implementation of the contract is a priority for the corporation in 2017. "The beginning of implementation of the contract to modernize the 1000 T-72 with engine installation V92S2

ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 05 Jul 2017 18:50

What is engine V92S2?
New engine developed in 92?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 05 Jul 2017 20:27


ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 05 Jul 2017 20:33

Nice

Description Diesel - Multi fuel
12 Cylinder, "V" shaped 600
Direct Injection
Four Stroke Water Cooled
Turbocharged
Rating 735 KW / 1000 BHP at 2000 RPM
Max. Torque at 1300 - 1400 400 kg-m
Bore / Stroke 150 /180 mm
Specific Fuel Consumption 212 g/kwh 156 g/hph
Starting Systems Compressed Air/Electric
Weight of Engine 1020 Kg
Power to Weight Ratio 0.70 : 1 KW/Kg
Engine Dimension Length - 1466 mm
Width - 896 mm
Height - 902 mm



So can they use it as needed?
What is the OFB production capacity?

Also what are the Arjun engine specs?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby putnanja » 05 Jul 2017 20:57

ramana wrote:What is engine V92S2?
New engine developed in 92?


I believe this is the same engine used in T-90s that's now being fitted on T-72 for upgrade.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 05 Jul 2017 21:04

Whatever happened to the engine upgrade by the DRDO that was supposed to bump the 72s hp to 1000 hp.

ramana
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 06 Jul 2017 21:28

X-Post...

g.sarkar wrote:
http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... SkdcJ.html
Sikkim standoff: China carries out military drill with tanks in Tibet
The drill, which involved firing live ammunition and testing new equipment, was carried out to evaluate the battle-readiness of PLA troops at altitudes of 15000 feet and above.
The Chinese Army has carried out a military exercise on the Tibet plateau, deploying tanks and conducting live firing at a height of 5,100 metres for the first time, amid a standoff with Indian forces near Nathu La in the Sikkim sector that has taken bilateral ties to a new low.
The drill, which also involved the testing of new equipment, was conducted to evaluate the battle-readiness of People’s Liberation Army (PLA) troops at altitudes of 15,000 feet and above, official Xinhua news agency reported.
The exercise assessed “battlefield environment analysis, combat operations, synergies that need to be developed during battle”, and also featured live fire shooting training and the testing of integration of military operations, the report in Chinese said.
....
However, a report on the Guancha website said the tanks — called Xinqingtan in Chinese — were rolled out in an area of Tibet near the Indian border, and that Beijing was increasing its military buildup in the region as “a show of force designed to deter the Indian military”.
The new tank’s technology and firepower, the report said, were “more advanced than the Russia-made T-90s deployed by India”.

Also, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOLk9XmHQG0
Chinese Military conducts LIVE FIRE exercise to send message to US Air Force
Gautam



What are the details of this XinqingTan tank?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby vaibhav.n » 07 Jul 2017 12:22

Image

The PLA plans to induct up to 300 Xinqingtan light tanks. The tank will likely be used for recce and infantry support operations in mountainous terrain. Likely designation is ZTQ and the tank weighs 33 tons. An export variant of the Xinqingtan, designated VT-5, has first been revealed at an exhibition in October 2016. Both the VT-5 and Xinqingtan have reportedly been under development by China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO), China’s largest tank maker.

“The VT-5 and ZTQ light tanks appear to be a downsized version of the VT-4/MBT-3,000. The VT-4 is based on the Soviet-era T-72 tank design and armed with a 125-mm smoothbore gun. “In comparison to the VT-4, the VT-5 will likely boost weaker armor and a less powerful 105mm main gun as well as engines.”

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 07 Jul 2017 15:58

Over 2+ years ago I predicted light tanks appearing in Tibet and gave details of the latest Russian light tank which we could've acquired.We have taken some T-72s into the mountains,but one is sure that they cannot operate in all sectors.The SprutSD/SDM1,was designed by the same BMP series team,using the same chassis with a 125mm gun,weighing only 18t.This would be capable of outgunning the Chinese toy-boy.

http://defence-blog.com/army/in-russia- ... -tank.html
Russia unveils in action a new Sprut-SDM1 airborne light tank

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Chinmay » 07 Jul 2017 18:18

Philip wrote:Over 2+ years ago I predicted light tanks appearing in Tibet and gave details of the latest Russian light tank which we could've acquired.We have taken some T-72s into the mountains,but one is sure that they cannot operate in all sectors.The SprutSD/SDM1,was designed by the same BMP series team,using the same chassis with a 125mm gun,weighing only 18t.This would be capable of outgunning the Chinese toy-boy.

http://defence-blog.com/army/in-russia- ... -tank.html
Russia unveils in action a new Sprut-SDM1 airborne light tank


Right. Where exactly in Ladakh do you envision that the T-72 cannot go but the Chinese 35 ton light tank can? Also this Russian light tank of yours is half the weight of the Chinese light tank, implying that the armour levels arent great. The 105mm gun on the Chinese tank would shred your Sprut fairly easily.
Last edited by Chinmay on 07 Jul 2017 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 07 Jul 2017 19:50

Philip sir, the talk on other tank forums is that this chinese light tank's basic armor can withstand only upto 12.5 mm rounds in the front arc and only upto 7.62 mm rounds in all the other hemispheres. Now please try and imagine what our well trained ground units armed with carl gustafs, other ATGMs will do to it. Not to mention the LCH with its 20mm cannon.

Sure the chinese can pile add-on armor to it... but then will it remain a 'light' tank maintaining it's current speed/mobility levels?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nirav » 07 Jul 2017 19:51

The light Chinese tanks ensure that our infantry doesn't have to use heavy anti tank weaponry.

Old stocks of man portable anti tank mijjiles will do just fine !

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Avik » 07 Jul 2017 20:38

I wonder if we still have T 55s in reserve. we used to have hundreds of them till about 10 years back in active formations. The T 55 could use uprated engine packs from the T 72s while being a good 7-8 tonnes lighter. The uprated engines will also account for the lowered engine performance at high altitude.
Armour regiments are already well versed with the 55s and there exists huge infrastructure in-country through the base workshops to support these. No need for imports

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby vaibhav.n » 07 Jul 2017 21:24

The Chinese ZTQ will follow in the concept of the US's upcoming Mobile Protected Firepower vehicle (MPF) program. These light tank companies would be attached to infantry brigades. These light tanks are to cover light infantry units while they are dismounted or screen for enemy MBT's while on the advance. The latest uparmored Abrams variant entering now in service, the M1A2 SEPv3 already weighs around 75 tons are too heavy.

The US Army told some 200 industry representatives from 59 companies what it wants in its next war machine, the Mobile Protected Firepower vehicle (MPF).

The MPF must be light and nimble enough to accompany foot troops where the massive M1 Abrams cannot go: into dense jungle and narrow streets, up mountains and over rickety Third World bridges. It must also carry enough armor to shrug off 14.5mm rounds. It must pack enough firepower to take out anything from a concrete bunkers to enemy IFV's. The air-deployable MPF would bulk up airborne brigades and other light infantry units.


The MPF will deal with opposition that might otherwise bog down large numbers of light infantry, like a bunker, Wesley said, or an older model tank like the T-55. “What we wouldn’t expect is that infantry brigade is going to fight an entire brigade of armored vehicles,” Wesley went on.

That’s what the US Army’s own armored brigades are for, and there’s no need to reinvent them. If you gave a Light Infantry Brigade enough firepower to fight Russian-style tank armies, you’d lose all the advantages that make it light in the first place: a combat force unencumbered by heavy vehicles, a force which can fit into aircraft for rapid deployment and maneuver in difficult terrain — jungles, swamps, mountains, slums — where heavy vehicles bog down.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 07 Jul 2017 21:36

I all this discussion about light tanks, I wonder where does a vehicle like the centaro with its 120 mm main gun and 8 x 8 drive fits.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 07 Jul 2017 22:17

Light tanks are just that they cant take hits even from heavy HE 105 class weapon much less from modern APFSDS or HEAT round , They bring in though heavy tank like fire power with mobility much better than armed APC would offer , if one needs protection beyond that offerd by APC class level that light tank offers then we have to rely on APS.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 07 Jul 2017 23:14

I would suggest people read Poona Horse combat history of 1965 and 1971 wars. The regiment survived and won its victories due to the survivability after taking multiple hits.

Just Google for Poona Horse pdf.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 07 Jul 2017 23:15

Avik wrote:I wonder if we still have T 55s in reserve. we used to have hundreds of them till about 10 years back in active formations. The T 55 could use uprated engine packs from the T 72s while being a good 7-8 tonnes lighter. The uprated engines will also account for the lowered engine performance at high altitude.
Armour regiments are already well versed with the 55s and there exists huge infrastructure in-country through the base workshops to support these. No need for imports



Most of the T55s were upgunned with 105mm L7 tank guns.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby kurup » 08 Jul 2017 19:36


Kakarat
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Kakarat » 08 Jul 2017 20:18

Defence ministry approves Rs 2800 crore worth modernization projects

Defence Acquisition Council(DAC) headed by the Defence Minister Arun Jaitley cleared projects including equipping armoured fighting vehicles(BMP) used by infantry with night fighting capabilities and Ordnance Factory, Medak will undertake the deal worth over Rs 2,400 crore. The same factory will also manufacture command and control posts for directing artillery fire and the cost is Rs 406 crores.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Aditya_V » 08 Jul 2017 20:24

It could be a TATA 12 by 12 supplied to defence combat support

http://www.tatamotors.com/product/defence-combat-support-platforms-12x12/

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby tsarkar » 09 Jul 2017 01:00

kurup wrote:Can somebody id the truck ??

That is a German MAN military truck trialled as alternative to Tatra. MAN had developed a series called HanuMAN to replace its older ShaktiMAN. Great capabilities that did not come L1.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby kurup » 09 Jul 2017 12:49

tsarkar wrote:
kurup wrote:Can somebody id the truck ??

That is a German MAN military truck trialled as alternative to Tatra. MAN had developed a series called HanuMAN to replace its older ShaktiMAN. Great capabilities that did not come L1.


Any other picture of this MAN truck ...... in other forums they are saying its a CVRDE developed one .

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby kurup » 09 Jul 2017 12:54

Kakarat wrote:Defence ministry approves Rs 2800 crore worth modernization projects

Defence Acquisition Council(DAC) headed by the Defence Minister Arun Jaitley cleared projects including equipping armoured fighting vehicles(BMP) used by infantry with night fighting capabilities and Ordnance Factory, Medak will undertake the deal worth over Rs 2,400 crore. The same factory will also manufacture command and control posts for directing artillery fire and the cost is Rs 406 crores.


Its not a TATA 12X12 for sure ..... look at the wheel positions .

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 09 Jul 2017 15:13

The Chinko "half peg",in honour of the President XI Gins,will be shredded long before it can get within range of the Sprut ,as that worthy outguns it with a std. 125mm main gun compared with the Chinese 105mm gun.Since the chassis is based upon the BMP series-same designers,it could be easily manufactured by us as we have almost all features already being done so in India at our AV DPSUs,Medak and Avadi. We're producing /upgrading existing BMPs and manufacturing T-90s and upgrading T-72s,earlier made here too. The chassis appears to be slightly modified with another running wheel,but eminently possible,or even to outsmart the Chinkos,make a "Sprut" of our own,putting the pieces together.The AVs belonging to the Armata family may be too heavy for mountain warfare and our ICVs are underarmed.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 09 Jul 2017 18:50

So much spazzing over Roosi light tank vaporware but not one shoutout to DRDO's amphib tank prototype based off BMP-2 chassis. Not just light but much more air-transportable.

Image

Dissing of the DRDO concept, despite being pretty much the same as Roosi concept begins by the resident russophiles in....3.....2.....1...

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Karan M » 09 Jul 2017 19:26

Nice .. the FCS information leads me to surmise this was a 90's project? Now they can actually put a proper fire on the move FCS + add stabilization.
ERA can add protection but also add 2T of weight.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Thakur_B » 09 Jul 2017 19:29

Yes, late 90s, french turret mated to BMP-II chassis.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Kakarat » 09 Jul 2017 19:36

They can even develop a unmanned turret maybe with a little help from Israel and put it in both BMP & Kestrel
We would have both wheeled and tracked tank destroyers


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