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Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

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Surya
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Surya » 31 Jul 2017 02:35

Its remotely operated not autonomous

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby jamwal » 31 Jul 2017 10:08

HI or rather the absolute lack of it will be a limiting factor on Indian highways.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 31 Jul 2017 10:25

HI??

You mean human intelligence right.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby jamwal » 31 Jul 2017 10:28

Yes

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 11:06

Image

saurabh jha has published this pic on his twitter page . says it was proposed a decade ago by drdo - BMP2 chassis, GIAT 105mm gun firing all types of rounds and protection against 14.5mm cannon rounds (which can surely be beefed up if reqd) . anyway it did not find favour with IA despite its russi origins and in-production bmp2 and after a tortuous search incl the polish anders light tank, the hunt is still on for a light tank
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/891885185884495873

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby jamwal » 31 Jul 2017 11:23

Another such BMP based light tank was displayed in defence expo. but turret was differnt, flatter like Arjun.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 11:24

is there any such western light tank? stryker 105mm nlos? same twitter link mentions efforts are on to develop a similar thing on tata kestrel vehicle.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby jamwal » 31 Jul 2017 11:36

Stryker has multiple variants, but it is wheeled. Not usre if IA will like it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 31 Jul 2017 12:06

You also have japani and taiwani 105 mm wheeled vehicles. In addition to the south afrikan and european wheeled vehicles.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 31 Jul 2017 16:27

the mongol empire 1260 AD. this is what suitable terrain and having lakhs of tanks (ie horses) and good factories to produce more tanks (steppe grazing lands) can give a small kingdom
Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ParGha » 01 Aug 2017 16:39

jamwal wrote:Stryker has multiple variants, but it is wheeled. Not sure if IA will like it

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1128_Mobile_Gun_System


FWIW, the Stryker MGS has very poor feedback from troops who have actually used it in battle; what they most appreciate about it is the night vision suite which guides the dismounted infantry in night raids.

A light, fast moving tank destroyer has merit IFF it is tracked and packs a gun big enough to take out an MBT in ambush. The most successful direct-fire tank killer in WW-II US arsenal was the M18 Hellcat.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 01 Aug 2017 18:47

if you want a hull down low ambush hunter the most modern example would be the redoubtable swedish S tank, meant to tackle masses of soviet armour

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ParGha » 02 Aug 2017 05:44

Actually, I take that back: I'm not even sure if a lightly armored, fast moving, main gunned tank like M18 is viable any more in this age of computer stabilized fire. You would have to be much faster... LCH fast... to survive on speed alone while hunting modern MBTs.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 02 Aug 2017 07:05

ambush hunting is best done with F&F ATGMs using mast mounted optronics than direct LOS fire from thin skinned panzerjager. the real panzerjagers of ww2 had very thick and sloped frontal armour. should have 4km or more range to stay out of the MBTs main gun envelope while in flight.

this is where Nag if properly developed could have played a role. but we will likely end up importing 300 of xyz light tank from czechs or poles.

Nag in a SA15 type modular VLS launcher on a BMP2 chassis and a small drop off 1st stage booster could have been our local copperhead ranging out to 8km top attack on armour. a smart weapon to back up area fires by artillery.

just think of the amazing things done with this missile which is smaller than hellfire. our ponderous conventional thought process never encourages these wild plays

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-176_Griffin

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby niran » 03 Aug 2017 08:56

Singha wrote:if you want a hull down low ambush hunter the most modern example would be the redoubtable Swedish S tank, meant to tackle masses of soviet armour

turret-less are useless in modern day tank battles both sides will be moving, reason for fire on move ability is stressed.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ramana » 03 Aug 2017 10:15

GD you need imagination in the weapon. Then you will be behind its development.

When you don't know the greatness of Asal Utar and celebrate other battles what can one say?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby tushar_m » 04 Aug 2017 09:26

INDIA - Tank Biathlon 2017 ( RUSSIA ) T - 90 S

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzCcjuasSDA

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby tushar_m » 04 Aug 2017 09:34

India No.1 in group with 23.33

Others 32.03 , 32.37 & 1.03:26

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Zynda » 04 Aug 2017 10:34

Dhoti shiver moment onlee: Last year China won the above Tank battle champion... :)

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby MaverickV » 04 Aug 2017 17:36

Is the tank biathlon any good? I mean is it in anyway an indicator of the skill level of the tank troop of that country?
China always does very well at these biathlons, its time for the race this year is better than India's (i guess they clocked around 21 mins).
Does this indicate that there troops or their wares are better than ours? Till now I always used to hear that our training is better even if we might not have the shiniest toys.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby putnanja » 04 Aug 2017 17:42

Weren't there rumors that India would field Arjun tanks at this exercise? Didn't the chinese bring their chinese manufactured tanks to last year exercise?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby MaverickV » 04 Aug 2017 17:54

IA decided against bringing the Arjun. T-90 was fielded. Chinese have been bringing their tanks for some time now.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nam » 04 Aug 2017 18:25

The Chinese take this thing very seriously. They brought a special version of their tank for these events, with higher power engine etc.

Arjun would have been a sight to behold. A western style tank in a eastern event. Massive turret, pneumatic shock and 1400HP engine.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Vivek K » 04 Aug 2017 19:19

Yeah - how would IA have looked if Arjun had won the biathlon?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Aug 2017 20:45

Vivek K wrote:Yeah - how would IA have looked if Arjun had won the biathlon?

With no disrespect to the DGMF who scuttled the project, they would have had their proverbial foot in their mouth, I believe!!

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby shaun » 04 Aug 2017 20:57

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Yeah - how would IA have looked if Arjun had won the biathlon?

With no disrespect to the DGMF who scuttled the project, they would have had their proverbial foot in their mouth, I believe!!

This have more to do with class and weight restriction that you can field .

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 05 Aug 2017 01:11

T-72 vs T-90 racing in Syrian Deserts!!!


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Atmavik » 06 Aug 2017 20:54

Indian Army T 90S 'Bhishma in Tank Biathlon 2017

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2MNKQWJIt0

INDIAN army TEAM ranks 1st on Day 2 of TANK biathlon RUSSIA 2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Ys9LFNVnw

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 06 Aug 2017 21:18

Namer AIFV with new Turret


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby niran » 07 Aug 2017 09:21

Vivek K wrote:Yeah - how would IA have looked if Arjun had won the biathlon?

first test is speed test, Arjun would have failed, IA have modified T90 engine air inlet filter notice the raised metallic cover during the contest it keep engine cooler and allow for more air in and out hence better speed to the tune of 10 plus seconds. this is showbazi Arjun would have been pitted if Leopard, Lecrec etc were contesting. nothing to do with Arjun win would have reddened face

one of ruski muna tried running with open metal cover their lest exhaust jammed coming out of the slush pit :rotfl:

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 07 Aug 2017 10:41

Austin wrote:Namer AIFV with new Turret



with a merkava hull it is no doubt the heaviest and costliest IFV in the world albeit with best armour too vs other IFVs. for israeli use cases of ambushes by hezbollah atgm and mortar teams it makes sense. but other nations who need 1000s of IFV will be hard to afford.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 07 Aug 2017 11:46

IA should have taken Arjun that is a good way to see where it stands among its peers and compete both Iran and China have fielded their home made tank and gives a chance for competitors to see what Arjun is capable off.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nam » 07 Aug 2017 11:57

niran wrote:
Vivek K wrote:Yeah - how would IA have looked if Arjun had won the biathlon?

first test is speed test, Arjun would have failed, IA have modified T90 engine air inlet filter notice the raised metallic cover during the contest it keep engine cooler and allow for more air in and out hence better speed to the tune of 10 plus seconds. this is showbazi Arjun would have been pitted if Leopard, Lecrec etc were contesting. nothing to do with Arjun win would have reddened face

one of ruski muna tried running with open metal cover their lest exhaust jammed coming out of the slush pit :rotfl:


There is a 3 hour video inn RT Youtube on the competition. I can see almost all the team have their air inlet open. So not sure IA had any advantage.

I remember reading a DRDO report on replacing steel wheels with aluminium wheels on T-72. which tremendously increased the T72 top speed. Don't know if the T90 participating have the same change.

The same setup could have been done on Arjun. Reduce armour on the turret, tune up the engine, aluminium wheels and you have a 1400hp machine with pneumatic shocks, which would have given quite a competition to the T-Series.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nachiket » 07 Aug 2017 23:54

Austin wrote:IA should have taken Arjun that is a good way to see where it stands among its peers and compete both Iran and China have fielded their home made tank and gives a chance for competitors to see what Arjun is capable off.

What is the point when the IA does not plan on inducting any more Arjuns than the 124 it already has? Our armored forces are going to be centered on the T-90S and upgraded T-72s for the forseeable future.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Aug 2017 00:13

what if Arjun's wheel comes off like the chinese tank? Not that I am saying it would, but we can't rule out any sabotage theories. Unless IA is not forced to take Arjun, it will not take. That is pretty clear. We are way past an objective discussion of why

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby nam » 08 Aug 2017 02:36

ArjunPandit wrote:what if Arjun's wheel comes off like the chinese tank? Not that I am saying it would, but we can't rule out any sabotage theories. Unless IA is not forced to take Arjun, it will not take. That is pretty clear. We are way past an objective discussion of why


Think the Chinese have torsion bar shocks, while Arjun has hydro pneumatic.


Arjun's shocks are made for riding on bumps! So less changes of wheels coming off.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby ArjunPandit » 08 Aug 2017 02:49

nam wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:what if Arjun's wheel comes off like the chinese tank? Not that I am saying it would, but we can't rule out any sabotage theories. Unless IA is not forced to take Arjun, it will not take. That is pretty clear. We are way past an objective discussion of why


Think the Chinese have torsion bar shocks, while Arjun has hydro pneumatic.


Arjun's shocks are made for riding on bumps! So less changes of wheels coming off.

Sir you are right and I also know that. That was desparation of jingo on the fate of ARJUN.
BTW did you miss/forget the days when Arjun torsion bar was peddled in MSM and discussed elaborately here too. Also, IIRC, DRDO had to ask for trials again with T90 after first round of trials were supsected of sabotage. Those were days of Rohitvats and Sanku's 'debates' (2011/12 i guess) and chackojoseph.
I didnt have a BRF id in those days and used to visit at least once a week. The addiction grew and time flew with Arjun and Tejas on BRF.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 08 Aug 2017 11:55

^ Yes, good times. :) Miss Sanku ji. He used to be very active on the Tanks and Military transport Aircraft forums. I don't see his posts now. Hope he is around.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby pralay » 08 Aug 2017 11:57

Tank Biathlon 2017 results as of 08/04/2017
Image
Source Tank Biathlon website
http://armygames2017.mil.ru/results_of_contests_ru

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby aditp » 08 Aug 2017 12:03

pralay wrote:Tank Biathlon 2017 results as of 08/04/2017
Image
Source Tank Biathlon website
http://armygames2017.mil.ru/results_of_contests_ru


Not a very encouraging result, especially against China that is using its own design. Wonder how the home grown "Desert Ferrari" would have fared. IA should have sent atleast 1 team of Arjun Tanks.


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