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Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

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Austin
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 22 Jan 2017 12:15

Indian Army river crossing drill



Indian Army showcase its river crossing capabilities involving T-72 Ajaya MK1 tanks with BMP-2 and BMP 81mm Mortar carrier, The objective is to cross river and dominate simulated enemy position on other side of the river ..

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby rohitvats » 22 Jan 2017 12:17

shiv wrote: I could not figure out what the racks at the back are for - they look like racks to carry cylinders of some sort .I found a pdf at the site below that gives the features but no explanation of the racks
http://www.tatamotors.com/product/defen ... icle-lsuv/


Racks for carrying missile reloads in case of vehicle being used as ATGM platform?

Sample of reload storage on one of the earlier platforms.

Image
Last edited by rohitvats on 22 Jan 2017 12:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 22 Jan 2017 12:20

rohitvats wrote:Racks for carrying missile reloads in case of vehicle being used as ATGM platform?

Yeah the pdf lists ATGM as a possible loadout. Good point - that is what it is,
CAPABILITY
Survivability: STANAG 4569 Level-I only on Sides & Rear, Run Flat Tyres
with CTIS, Self-Recovery Winch
Lethality: Turret for 7.62mm MMG, 40mm AGL & ATGM

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 23 Jan 2017 13:17

https://sputniknews.com/europe/20170114 ... rkexchange
Daesh Terrorists Destroy Myth of Germany's Indestructible Leopard 2 Tank © Flickr/ Metziker
EUROPE
13:22 14.01.2017
Daesh has identified a weak spot in Germany's legendary Leopard 2 battle tanks, and has destroyed ten of the machines used by the Turkish Army in northern Syria, the German newspaper Die Welt reported.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 23 Jan 2017 14:15

Philip wrote:https://sputniknews.com/europe/201701141049591403-german-leopold-tank-syria-daesh/?utm_source=farkexchange
Daesh Terrorists Destroy Myth of Germany's Indestructible Leopard 2 Tank © Flickr/ Metziker
EUROPE
13:22 14.01.2017
Daesh has identified a weak spot in Germany's legendary Leopard 2 battle tanks, and has destroyed ten of the machines used by the Turkish Army in northern Syria, the German newspaper Die Welt reported.

Time to pitch the Arjun to the Germans and Turks. After all, we have helped even Russian junk become invincible.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Yagnasri » 23 Jan 2017 17:26

One wonders who has given that info to them. Friendly neighbourhood CIA agent or Chuck Norice?

Did Deash really has the capacity to identify such things on their own? I mean Leopard2 are considered as the best tank in the world today and a ragtag gang of Arabs to find a way to defeat that?

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby hnair » 23 Jan 2017 17:41

That is from Sputnik news. We need to be wait and see.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 23 Jan 2017 18:21

A kornet or metis argm the daesh uses will kill those leo2a4 from any angle.
A du m1a2sep might survive a kornet hit on front of turret or hull due to some 1000mm plus protection level but really it will still be disabled and optics nd fcs shattered

Bottomline is almost nothing will survive a kornet from any angle. Its the king of hill for los atgm like javelin for top attack

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Nick_S » 23 Jan 2017 18:29

Article covering Hard Kill APS around the world -

http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.c ... rview.html

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 23 Jan 2017 18:35

Any tank that is not supported by well trained infantry will be easily dispatched by any trained atgm team. Nothing unique about the leopard getting killed.

Remember that the Syria army lost a 3rd of its armor to atgm teams before the Russians turned up.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby sudeepj » 23 Jan 2017 22:32

Austin wrote:Indian Army river crossing drill



Indian Army showcase its river crossing capabilities involving T-72 Ajaya MK1 tanks with BMP-2 and BMP 81mm Mortar carrier, The objective is to cross river and dominate simulated enemy position on other side of the river ..


That trickling sound you hear.. it aint water from the tank. Its the Paki generals peeing their pants.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Cain Marko » 23 Jan 2017 23:51

So, for all the bad press the t72 got in chechnya, seems like uber leos and abrams have not fared too well against rag tag types. A good atgm had no answer it seems.

Interestingly, russki t90s are supposed to have done quite alright in Syria with their aps.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 24 Jan 2017 06:24

Nick_S wrote:Article covering Hard Kill APS around the world -

http://below-the-turret-ring.blogspot.c ... rview.html

Thanks. I have not read such an informative article in a long time with the Internet full of trash

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Nick_S » 24 Jan 2017 07:31

Yw. He has posted a bunch of other articles that you may also be interested in.

----

Disappointing private industry, MoD handing Rs 5,000 crore BMP-2 upgrade to Ordnance Factory Board
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com.au/2017/ ... y-mod.html

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 24 Jan 2017 09:50

DRDO outlines future MBT requirements
James Bingham, London - IHS Jane's International Defence Review

http://www.janes.com/article/67154/drdo ... quirements
Requirements for the main armament, powerpack, and mission systems have been revealed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).

Speaking at the International Armoured Vehicles 2017 conference in London, Dr U. Solomon of the DRDO's Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment (CVRDE) highlighted some of the new requirements for the MBT design, which is intended to replace the Indian Army's fleet of T-72M1 'Ajeya' MBTs and is scheduled to enter service from the early 2020s.

Previously identified as having a requirement for a 120 mm main gun, the MBT is now set to be armed with a 125 mm gun, third-generation anti-tank guided weapon (ATGW), and an air-defence machine gun. It is planned that the main gun will have the capacity to fire guided munitions, with these understood to be Israel Aerospace Industries' Laser Homing Attack or Laser Homing Anti-Tan (LAHAT) missile. Other ammunition will include programmable airburst munitions and armour-piercing, fin-stabilised discarding sabot (APFSDS) natures.

The turret design will be unmanned, with the three-person crew seated in suspended seats below the turret - a configuration that is intended to enhance protection against underbelly blasts from mines or improvised explosive devices (IEDs).

The Bharat powerpack - set to replace the existing powerpacks of the Arjun Mk I and Mk II MBTs, as well as power the future MBT - is identified as a 2,200 kg unit powered by DHPP-A fuel. This is intended to operate at altitudes of up to 16,400 ft and temperatures as low as -20° Celsius. This requirement is likely a reflection of the Indian Army's need to operate in mountainous areas, particularly when deployed along India's border with Pakistan.

A dynamic track tension adjuster will also enable the MBT to maintain ground traction when crossing obstacles and soft or rough terrain.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 24 Jan 2017 10:27

^^ The news from Janes is truncated version , does any one have full access to Janes to post full report ? Seem DRDO has done presentation on FMBT at International Armoured Vehicles 2017

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 24 Jan 2017 13:04

Just as I suspected, Armata is the template for FMBT.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 24 Jan 2017 13:34

dual ISIS atgm strikes on a upgraded M60 and bulldozer near Al bab. why they were parked on the crest and not behind the ridgeline is unknown.

https://twitter.com/ruffthecrimedog/sta ... 7410148353

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Nick_S » 24 Jan 2017 17:48

DRDO's FMBT programme doesn't seem to be backed by the Army. The Army wants FRCV (which is similar to Armata).

I hope DRDO does not end up wasting it's time again; building a good tank and having no buyer.
Last edited by Nick_S on 24 Jan 2017 18:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 24 Jan 2017 17:54

DRDO and IA should be forced by the DM/MOD to sit together in a room and not emerge until they jointly agree upon the requirements for an FMBT!
The last time the IA gave the DRDO/CVRDE their requirements for an FMBT,they said that it "can't be done".

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Nick_S » 24 Jan 2017 18:32

IA told DRDO to make a 50 ton tank with better armour than Arjun and crewed by 4 personnel. French Leclerc tank with less armour than Arjun and a 3 man crew weighs about 55 tons.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jan 2017 21:20

Disappointing private industry, MoD handing Rs 5,000 crore BMP-2 upgrade to Ordnance Factory Board
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/01/d ... y-mod.html

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Gyan » 24 Jan 2017 22:20

OFB will do screwdrivergiri, while Russians & Israelis will laugh all the way to bank.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 24 Jan 2017 22:27

Did anyone catch this report from Jugal Purohit?

Watch our tanks roll and hear our heroes who train hard to keep them going...
https://twitter.com/IndiaToday/status/8 ... 8463295488

Had the time of my life shooting with our tankmen.
Our show - Defenders of India - making of India's tank men is ON AIR NOW. WATCH!
https://twitter.com/jrpur/status/823726678413373440

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 01:47

Found the video! Jugal also did one for the Artillery as well. Please check that thread.

Defenders Of India: Story Of India's Tank Warfare


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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 25 Jan 2017 02:17

You will feel immense pride, after listening to the recruits in the above video.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby shiv » 25 Jan 2017 07:31

Philip wrote:https://sputniknews.com/europe/201701141049591403-german-leopold-tank-syria-daesh/?utm_source=farkexchange
Daesh Terrorists Destroy Myth of Germany's Indestructible Leopard 2 Tank © Flickr/ Metziker
EUROPE
13:22 14.01.2017
Daesh has identified a weak spot in Germany's legendary Leopard 2 battle tanks, and has destroyed ten of the machines used by the Turkish Army in northern Syria, the German newspaper Die Welt reported.

Goes to show that all plans go for a six at the first sign of combat

Gotta admire the Germans for creating the myth of "best tank in the world" even before it had fought a single battle and made millions selling them to brochure-pasand turdworlders. Then this happens. The best part about us Indians is that we never predict or claim that ours is the best. We proudly proclaim that we are third or fourth best and when something Indian gets damaged or destroyed we are not surprised the way we are when we hear of a Leopard or Abrams going phut.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2017 08:23

even the americans fighting under ideal conditions made the abrams into invulnerable beast. one thing daesh has proven is the blow off panels on the ammo compartment do work and might save the crew(sometimes), but they have also proven the ATGMs can kill the abrams pretty much every time :(

the fig leaf being used is the leopards and abrams used by turkey & iraq are not the latest models - but even the germans do not have their entire fleet as latest model, only a token subset due to cost and lack of need . swedes have a top-1 model. and the US marines most of their abrams are not the latest model though they draw the short straw of the tough missions. so nobody is going to enter the battle with a 100% latest kit even if invulnerable.





a internal fire ingites from a hull or turret penetration



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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2017 08:28

the abrams has atleast fought some major battles (against weak foes) and deployed for a long time in the desert ... so its weaknesses will be better understood and some remedied, by the ISIS as well as some of the isis elite units are ex-iraqi army. the leopard is a PPTX tiger with no real field use outside of europe and that in peacetime.

without the TUSK kind of upgrade and vs RPG22+ / kornet / metis in urban warfare, tanks really have very low chances of survival against good ATGM teams

the much maligned reactive armour which was "proof" of russian backwardness makes a deft appearance....khan is nothing if not flexible

Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 25 Jan 2017 08:29

^^ all the above circus is to permit better 360' situational awareness against infantry and ATGM teams and that remote MG is to permit safe firing in all sides including high angles without opening the hatch.

the merkava despite taking all these into account suffered at hands of hezbollah atgm teams in 2006. the fig leaf then was they were merkava3 and not 4. :rotfl: but it was israelis decision to go in and start the war

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 25 Jan 2017 12:29

It also shows that Sov Ru ATGMs can be quite lethal and we know who invented the RPG,with tandem warheads too.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 25 Jan 2017 12:41

Singha wrote:^^ all the above circus is to permit better 360' situational awareness against infantry and ATGM teams and that remote MG is to permit safe firing in all sides including high angles without opening the hatch.

the merkava despite taking all these into account suffered at hands of hezbollah atgm teams in 2006. the fig leaf then was they were merkava3 and not 4. :rotfl: but it was israelis decision to go in and start the war


Some how even these Hizb or other folks have not tried to target the tracks and lower areas that would be a mission kill for all tanks if they become static , All seems to have tried focussing on turret and its weak areas to get a complete kill.

Any APS would have a hard time to track antitank missile flying low and fast and attacking the track/wheels of tanks due to ground clutter and the limited angle of view APS radar can provide.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Bala Vignesh » 26 Jan 2017 14:54

Strange that in all those videos the tanks never attempted to get out of the atgm's way using smokescreen or any such mechanisms.. Could it be that the crews were not aware of the oncoming missile??

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 27 Jan 2017 00:47

Correct sir..... what you are watching is the shot being taken after the tank has come to rest, switched off or in the case of mobile column... the column deliberately distracted from another side by small arms etc.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Wickberg » 27 Jan 2017 06:10

Bala Vignesh wrote:Strange that in all those videos the tanks never attempted to get out of the atgm's way using smokescreen or any such mechanisms.. Could it be that the crews were not aware of the oncoming missile??


Well, the "RAW: Iraqi M1 Abrams tank hit by ISIS Kornet guided missile near Mosul"-video is an old swedish test showing a SAAB Rbs Bill2 destroying an old Centurion-tank. Not so much ISIS in war outside Mosul but more like swedish conscripts in a peacefull muddy field...

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2017 13:23

the leopards have a magazine located in the hull next to the driver. and another storage in the bustle.
the first magazine seems to have exploded and completely disintegrated that quadrant of the tank here in al-bab.
the hull mag cannot be accessed from inside the turret ring in all positions...the bustle mag needs to be kept stocked by the loader if its draining out, by having the turret rotate to front position and pulling out the rounds from hull mag.

Image

Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2017 13:32

the Arjun also has this arrangement - if you look at the two pics below it is clear

turret ring and enclosure
Image

hull mag of ammo
Image

seems like 10 rounds in the bustle...
Image

wiki claim is 39 rounds...

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2017 13:43

note that hull mag while being protected by the thickest armour of frontal hull , and undetermined thickness from the sides, has no blow off panels .... thats the reason why the Leo4 distintegrated from a hit or secondary fire setting that ammo off.

27 rounds are stored inside a special magazine in the forward section of the hull, left of the driver, while 15 rounds more are stored in the left side of the turret bustle, separated by an electric door for safety

Image
Image

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 27 Jan 2017 13:53

the germans seem to have thin storage tubes, spring loaded from the sides in a slightly circular arrangement which makes it possible to access the center two columns of shells from that narrow electric door. you can clearly see 15 rounds capacity.
only thing is if the mag is full and you loaded all APDS into a side column and center has other type and you need APDS you need to drop some shells on the floor to access what you need

arjun seems to have no electric door and fully accessible individual bins with a rotating lever to keep the shell in place.

it seems to me without a blastproof electric door if this is the real situation, the protection afforded by the blast panels on roof it moot and arjun design is inferior both in number of rounds (despite a slightly wider tank) and in protection level.

the Abrams has had a blast door that slides open from a knee switch from day 1 from its 105mm gun days. it has 2 x 18 round mags all in the bustle and no hull ammo.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Mihir » 28 Jan 2017 00:52

The Abrams has six rounds stored in the hull. http://imgur.com/a/GZ2bR


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