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Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 20 Mar 2017 11:25

The future is unmanned. In every service. In the near future,the ground war is going to be vastly complicated by hundreds of UCAVs ,like swarms of locusts in recce mode and hunting for AVs,and targets of opportunity.Like the Harpy drone,many of them will be kamikaze weapons. They will be able to hunt for AVs,locate and destroy them,something that arty/MBRLs cannot do unless target locations have been provided. UCAVs/drones,have become so numerous in type,new manufacturers sprouting by the day,that it is becoming almost impossible to track their development .Flying mini-vehicles are also being developed.

Nevertheless,the latest gen . of MBTs like the Armata also have a suite of defensive weapons,both active and passive. Their armour has also been significantly improved. With crews in armoured hulls, AVs should be able to soldier on even after being hit. The further dev. of unmanned AVs will still educe the size of AVs, Today's media has reports that robots have now begun to "speak" to each other in their own lingo! The "terminator" era is about to arrive. In naval warfare,UUVs are already in service,small unmanned surface platforms being used for harbour defence and the USN has its own dev. of an ocean-going v.long endurance UUV sub-hunter.This is not to say that the end of manned weaponry is on the horizon.The human brain is the best "smart" system on the battlefield and will remain so,"Deep Blue" notwithstanding!

We should first as said earlier,lock down on the "food" on our plate.Production of new T-90s,upgrades to the huge stock of late model T-72s and other specialist AVs reqd. Whatever Arjun orders that may given and support for the 124 already in service. At this point in time,instead of acquiring an FMBT asap,the IA should fast track the large-scale induction of the LCH and armed ALHs,as we are woefully short of attack helos. Tanks on the ground should have their compatriots,"f;lying tanks" in the air as well!

Marten
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 20 Mar 2017 12:05

Has Russia announced flying Armatas?

Pratyush
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Pratyush » 20 Mar 2017 12:25

Marten wrote:Has Russia announced flying Armatas?

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 20 Mar 2017 19:03

Ha!Ha! Nyet comrade,but it has another beast called the KA-52,the flying tank.watch it in action here.

https://sputniknews.com/videoclub/20170 ... elicopter/

Watch Russian Ka-52K Naval Attack Helicopter in Action

VIDEOCLUB
20:00 19.03.2017(updated 20:02 19.03.2017) Get short URL 0 2433235
Kamov Ka-52K is a Russian carrier-based attack helicopter, a potent weapon designed for providing air support during naval and amphibious landing operations.

These helos along with a large no. of ASW helos could've given another lease of life to the Viraat used as an ASW/amphib support carrier. IN sources say that the vessel could've soldiered on for many more years but ws retd. becos of lack of Sea Harriers.

Khalsa
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 21 Mar 2017 00:58

Phillip
stop please.
He is actually not interested in the Ka or the Armata.
He was really mocking your blind following for anything Russian.

And you are just playing into his hands much to the delight of all BRFites.

Rakesh
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 21 Mar 2017 02:00

Philip will never stop. That's what makes him Philip. :mrgreen:

Can you imagine Khalsa Saar if there was a single engine, 4th gen, Russian plane? :lol:

Marten
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 21 Mar 2017 02:34

Khalsa wrote:Phillip
stop please.
He is actually not interested in the Ka or the Armata.
He was really mocking your blind following for anything Russian.

And you are just playing into his hands much to the delight of all BRFites.

Khalsa, since you mentioned me without showing the courtesy of naming me -- despite the appearances, I respect Philip and his immense knowledge a lot, and he knows this as well. I do not think he took it as a barb, just as a joke, as it was intended. No reason for you or anyone to feel bad. Also, I love the Kamovs, have been a fan for a long while, even before I knew of Philip or read him on this forum. :)

Admins, Admiral, sorry for the OT.

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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Rakesh » 21 Mar 2017 02:40

Marten: i need no apologies.

I am Admiral Emiritus i.e. Admiral without a fleet :mrgreen:

Khalsa
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 21 Mar 2017 11:17

Marten wrote:
Khalsa wrote:Phillip
stop please.
He is actually not interested in the Ka or the Armata.
He was really mocking your blind following for anything Russian.

And you are just playing into his hands much to the delight of all BRFites.

Khalsa, since you mentioned me without showing the courtesy of naming me -- despite the appearances, I respect Philip and his immense knowledge a lot, and he knows this as well. I do not think he took it as a barb, just as a joke, as it was intended. No reason for you or anyone to feel bad. Also, I love the Kamovs, have been a fan for a long while, even before I knew of Philip or read him on this forum. :)

Admins, Admiral, sorry for the OT.


Marten my bad.
Please enjoy the Ka and Armatas and all.

Phillip I just speak for myself then. We can't be repeating this cycle again and again (the cycle of MiG-21 and T-55 and T-72).
The Russians did support us and were strategic partners from 50s to 90s and I am immensely grateful for those decades. However its over my friend.
Its every man for himself.

The Russians still have plenty of business from us
FGFA
Su-30
T-90
Frigates
Sub (upgrade) + Nuke Sub.

Bas karo yaar.
:D

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 21 Mar 2017 11:24

Wait till the flying Armata is unveiled,then I wil Taka,taka,taka....,Until then I wil Talka,talka,talka...! :rotfl:

Marten
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Marten » 21 Mar 2017 11:28

:rotfl:
Philip, there is no chance. We will probably end up selling the LCH to them in ten years. Mark my words!
Khalsa, you are missing the context mate! Loving the Kamovs is not the same as wanting them for IA/IAF! :)

Manish_P
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Manish_P » 21 Mar 2017 11:42

Philip wrote:Ha!Ha! Nyet comrade,but it has another beast called the KA-52,the flying tank.watch it in action here.


<OT> The Mi-28 Havoc is said to have better armor protection as compared to the KA-52, and equal firepower. Also in attack helicopters, the tandem two seat config is generally more preffered than the side-by-side seating to give better visual situational awareness to both the pilot and WSO/gunner </OT>

Khalsa
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Khalsa » 21 Mar 2017 13:34

Philip wrote:Wait till the flying Armata is unveiled,then I wil Taka,taka,taka....,Until then I wil Talka,talka,talka...! :rotfl:


Oh Phillip you are never gonna give up are you ?
:D :D :D :D :D

Gagan
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Gagan » 22 Mar 2017 01:59

Philip ji
Please tell us about yourself. Are you one single person, or a group of people who post under the name 'philip' ?
Are you from the land of Roos too?

Indranil
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Indranil » 22 Mar 2017 03:24

^^^ This is against forum rules. Gagan ji, please desist. Philip saar, ignore above message.

Singha
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 22 Mar 2017 08:31

2 page article

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... been-19836

Takeaway
..great tanks are in themselves not enough. Logistical tail, mobility of infantry, air and artillery support are vital...

A panzer leader like rokosovsky held back his tanks and used artillery seeing a opportunity

Singha
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Singha » 22 Mar 2017 08:40

Search for battle of brody in wikipedia

Interesting to note kruschev was a powerful komissar those days spying on generals back to stalin.

Philip
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Philip » 22 Mar 2017 12:34

Ha!Ha! Phi-Lip.Two words.Does it answer the Q? No. I am not from the land of Rus.,neither I am I a follower of Mr. Marx. I love watching the other Marx..Brothers! No biz dealings with Mr. Putin either unlike Pres. Trump,though would love him to send me some caviar and Stoly.
However,like all of us,input often comes from various sources,nothing classified ever posted.

Austin
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby Austin » 22 Mar 2017 22:28

CAG criticises Indian Army for slack maintenance of weapons systems

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 79945.html
NEW DELHI: The Comptroller and Auditor General has slammed the army for not being able to effectively maintain large inventory of critical weapon systems including radars and battle tanks.

The CAG also took strong objection to inordinate delays by the Border Roads Organisation (BRO) in construction of 61 strategically-important roads, having a total length of 3,409 KM, under the Indo China Border Roads (ICBRs) project.

In a report which was tabled in Parliament, the CAG criticised the army for failing to come up with any long-term perspective plan for creation of infrastructure for newly- inducted military systems.

Citing examples of delays in maintenance of key weapon platforms, it said against the norm of 153 days, it took the army 1,512 days for the overhauling of BMP Infantry Combat Vehicles.

"Similarly, for Tanks T-72, the delay ranged up to 836 days against the norm of 144 days. Overhaul of Radar and its variants also experienced delays up to 921 days," the report said.


It specifically mentioned about lack of facility for repair and overhaul of Main Battle tank Arjun which were inducted into the army from 2004 and is due for overhaul from 2020-21.

"In case of Tank T-72, the quantum of backlog of overhaul was 713 at the end of 2010-11 and 479 at the end of 2015-16 which constitutes around 20 per cent of total holding," said the report on working of Army's Base Workshops covering a period of six years from 2010-11 to 2015-16.


The report suggested the army should have a detailed plan to keep the weapons system available for any eventuality.

Referring to maintenance of armoured recovery vehicles (ARV WZT 2), the CAG said the facility for overhaul of the fleet was set up in March 2009 after 28 years of its introduction.

"The vehicle was due for overhaul since 1996-97, but only 22 ARV WZT-2 could be overhauled against the total strength of 222. The equipment was likely to be de-inducted by 2018,"
said CAG.

srai
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Re: Armoured Vehicles Discussion Thread - August 9, 2014

Postby srai » 23 Mar 2017 04:30

^^^

Too many times we keep seeing this type of criticism and for a valid reason. The IA could get a lot more out of its existing weapon systems with proper infrastructure to support products over their lifetimes. But it seems, a new inventory keeps getting acquired without proper life-cycle support in place and even after a decade in service those facilities still don't get setup.


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