India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Philip » 20 Jan 2015 10:53

Ck the link for the hits and misses box.

DRDO, the giant firing blanks
C Uday Bhaskar | January 20, 2015,

New Delhi: The unceremonious sacking of DRDO chief Avinash Chander on January 13 well before the end of his current tenure and the shabby and graceless manner in which it was done was further compounded by the statement of defence minister Manohar Parrikar that even he came to know of this decision only through the media although he had recommended it earlier to the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet. It was suggested that the services of the DRDO chief were being abruptly terminated since the government wanted to induct someone younger from within the organisation “with an urge for development.”

The Delhi grapevine refers to sordid intrigue and factional rivalry within the DRDO for this seemingly arbitrary and impetuous decision. However the manner in which the highest levels of governance — in this case, the Appointments Committee of the Cabinet — are being perceived in the public domain brings little credit to the Modi government.

The relatively new defence minister has every right to appoint a new team, for the DRDO chief also functions as the scientific adviser to the minister. However, given that the NDA government had in November 2014 approved Chander’s extension till May 2016, announcing the sudden termination of his tenure reflects poorly on the texture of higher defence management. The fact that Chander is a highly respected professional and deemed to be the ‘missile man’ who delivered the Agni and recipient of various honours including the Padma award testifies to his professional competence in an unambiguous way.

Paradoxically the defence minister’s intent — that the DRDO needs a review and shake-up — is more than timely but the fact that he chose to effect it in this manner may be counter-productive to the organisation.

Set up in 1958 along with the departments of atomic energy and space as part of the Nehruvian blue-print for the scientific and technological development of India, the DRDO began with 10 laboratories and is now a large enterprise with over 50 labs.

The mandate of the DRDO was to enable the Indian military in enhancing its operational capability, especially in areas where such technology from foreign sources was either unsuitable, denied or unaffordable — what former DRDO Emeritus Scientist Dr V Siddhartha refers to as the ‘triple trap’.

The DRDO had to navigate through this adversarial domain with limited fiscal, HR and technological assets and its 56-year record is mixed and muddied. The more visible success is in the strategic domain where the Indian nuclear deterrent was enabled to a large extent by the scientific and technological eco-system nurtured by the ‘trimurti’ – the atomic energy-space-DRDO combine.

There are other areas such as sonars, radars and electronic warfare where the DRDO has enabled the armed forces but the disappointment is with larger platforms such as the main battle tank, the light combat aircraft and the Trishul anti-missile defence system.

In each case, the DRDO promised more than it could deliver and consequently prevented the armed forces from importing the inventory sorely needed for maintaining appropriate operational capability. While time and cost overruns in such projects are the norm in other countries as well – DRDO has not been able to win the trust and confidence of the user – the Indian military and has often played the role of a dog in the manger.

The case of the failed Trishul surface-to-air missile is particularly deplorable and reeks of deliberate obfuscation by the DRDO with fabricated aspersions leading to an FIR being filed against the political and naval apex in 2006. The trust deficit between the military leadership and the DRDO is deep and bitter and Admiral Arun Prakash, former Naval chief, charges the institution with “intellectual dishonesty.”

The strategic management of high technology is a complex managerial domain and is mediated as much by tangible scientific and technological acumen and capacity, as also by national culture and the collective effort to strive for excellence. India while blessed with considerable individual excellence in these domains has not burnished its manufacturing capability across the board.

The first gunpowder factory was established in India in Ishapore in 1787 and a gun and carriage manufacturing facility in 1801. Allied operations in southeast Asia during WW II provided a tremendous boost with the setting up of ordnance factories and aircraft-overhaul facilities in India. Instead of capitalising on this sound foundation, post 1947 and the debacle of 1962, the higher national security apparatus was unable to nurture an eco-system that would ensure something as basic as an Indian-designed personal weapon.

Nothing demonstrated this failure better than the eventual rejection of the DRDO-designed Indian Small Arms System (Insas) by the Army. Consequently more than 50 years after 1962, India, which has a uniformed constituency of almost two million (military, para-military and police), does not have appropriate indigenous design and manufacturing capacity to equip its soldiers with a modern personal weapon.

This void is a stark reflection of the poverty of astute higher national security management; successive governments from Nehru to UPA-II have proved unable or unwilling to redress this bleak reality. Here the combined spectrum of the politician, bureaucrat, general and scientist is culpable for having taken the easy option — import or make do with the inventory deprivation.

Progressively India’s military import bill rose and the UPA government set up the Rama Rao-led Task Force which carried out a detailed review of the DRDO and made valuable recommendations — the central one being to focus on select hi-tech weapon systems deemed critical for the military. This report has not been tabled in Parliament or discussed and remains under wraps.

An objective and empathetic structural review of DRDO is imperative and apart from improving HR by inducting young blood — as Prime Minister Modi has directed — the entire eco-system of national design and manufacturing endeavour that includes the private sector and academia needs to become willing stake holders. This is a mammoth task and warrants perspicacious political direction.

Dramatically sacking the DRDO chief is more symbolic than substantive as regards infusing institutional vitality.

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/150120/c ... ing-blanks

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Ramu » 20 Jan 2015 15:49

[Rant on] Do we really have to go through this vicious circle of bashing and de bashing.. day after day after day after day.. and thread after thread after thread after thread? Was there anyhing new mentioned in that article or you are new to this forum? This is beyond a point that a mod warning would bother me [Rant off]

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 20 Jan 2015 20:58

Right. In that case look at who the author is and ruminate.

Some clean up has to be done and its unfortunate it has to start somewhere.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 21 Jan 2015 04:44

This guy still can and has the desire to contribute a lot. The ember is still burning inside him. GoI will do well to see how his services can be availed, even though not at the helm of DRDO.

Wanted to steer DRDO into global arms market: Chander

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby arshyam » 21 Jan 2015 05:00

^^ Ajai Shukla speculates that Dr. Chander may still be retained in some capacity. I hope it works out that way.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2015/01/ ... -exit.html
Even so, following Modi’s comments, rumours swirled about a government “search committee” that was finding a successor, with Sekhar Basu of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) believed to be the outsider chosen to revitalise the moribund DRDO. The rumours held that Chander would not be put out to pasture. Instead, the three posts that he held --- i.e. secretary (defence R&D), director general of the DRDO (being upgraded to chairman, DRDO); and scientific advisor to the Raksha Mantri (SA to RM) --- would be split. Shekhar Basu would take over as director general of DRDO, while Chander would continue as scientific advisor to the defence minister. One of them would additionally hold the post of secretary (defence R&D).


While DRDO scientists lick their wounds after Chander’s contract termination, several believe that he remains in the picture. Top defence ministry officials confirm they are still examining the proposal to split the three positions traditionally held by the DRDO chief. That could see the organisation headed by a new, young chief, while Chander continues as the advisor to the minister. That would only be justice for a scientist whose name would feature prominently in anyone’s history of the DRDO.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 21 Jan 2015 05:25

Satheesh Reddy, S Christopher, Sekharan - all three good choices. One from missiles, one from nav systems, one from radars..

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 21 Jan 2015 05:40

http://www.aeromag.in/news/defence/new- ... r-for-lrde

New director for LRDE

Shri S Ravind, Outstanding Scientist has been appointed as Director of Electronics & Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), unit of DRDO, Bangalore. He assumed charge from Shri Varadarajan,Outstanding Scientist who is superannuating on 31st May 2013. Shri S Ravind obtained his B Tech degree in Electronics from the Jawaharlal Nehru Technological University, and M Tech degree in Electronics and Instrumentation from REC, Warangal, Hyderabad. He started his career in the Defence Research and Development Establishment (DRDO) as a Junior Scientific Officer in the Defence Electronics Research Laboratory (DLRL), Hyderabad, later joined the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE), Bangalore.

Shri S Ravind, has made to Radar programs at LRDE. He was involved in the design and development of INDRA I and INDRA II Radars, first Phased Array Radar of the country, the Rajendra Radar and the Akash Weapon System. He was instrumental in the development of the Long Range Radars and Multi-function Fire Control Radars for Ballistic Missile Defence. His fields of interest are Phased Array Radars, Active Aperture Array Radars, Real time Radar Controls & Sensors for Weapon Systems and Netted Array Radars for Surveillance, Air Defence and Ballistic Missile Defence. He has interacted with production agencies to realise the radars developed indigenously and imbibed the concept of product life cycle methods required for the systems.

Shri S Ravind was a member of the Team which received the DRDO Technology Award in the year 1994 for Design and Development of Rajendra Phased Array Systems for the AKASH Surface to Air Missile Weapon System.

He received the DRDO Scientist of the Year Award in 1999, IETE IRSI Award in the year 1999.

He was a member of the team which received the Agni Award for Self reliance in the year 2004 for Development of the Rajendra Radar.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_28108 » 21 Jan 2015 06:30

I think Chander or someone else will manage blackops.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 22 Jan 2015 17:21

Ramana wrote:KaranM, Are you familar with EVM (Earned Value Management) process? Using the data in the HT article one can come up with cost and schedule variance for those projects and see what EVM metrics reveal.


Ramanaji, not familiar with EVM sorry.. but did a quick look, seems it requires more data than the article suggests..

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 22 Jan 2015 17:30

AS Pillai (ex Brahmos head/DRDO) presentation at Deftronics
http://www.aspillai.com/lectures/DEFTRONICS-2014.pdf

Sep 14
Interesting stuff from Slide 3 onwards!
Reveals there is a Samyukta Mk-II program, 50Kw laser, new EO surveillance,

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SaiK » 24 Jan 2015 02:15


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jamwal » 24 Jan 2015 12:04

I was talking to a Medium/small business owner a few days back. His plant used to manufacture stuff for one of biggest PSUs in defence. Without going in to too much detail, let's say that things they manufactured are used by Army, Air Force in their offensive as well as defensive capabilities. Vital components, chassis and much more of many different products. Perks include high margin, assured work supply and everything that one needs to run a good business.

But they were forced to stop accepting orders due to massive corruption. The inspectors who give final approvals come with very dry hands and demand a lot of greasing. For examples sake, the final batch needs approval from 2-3 inspectors. Anyone of them can let the entire lot worth crores go to waste for any reason under the sun. At times, an inspector would get offended over the fact that one inspector was treated to a lunch in a fancier restaurant while he was taken to a less expensive place. In this case, meals and drinks in expensive restaurants are just one of the ways of paying bribes to these corrupt PSU employees.

When we whine about defence industry being monopolised by big PSUs, slow rate of production of Arjun, LCA etc., keep in mind that as long as the stranglehold of PSUs on defence manufacturing is not broken, things will not change. They are corrupt, inefficient and a hurdle rather than aid in path of progress. HAL, OFB, BHEL and other such PSUs will need to source components from private suppliers like the one I met to manufacture artillery, planes, tanks, radars etc. But when these suppliers with expertise are being harassed by PSU staff for bribes like that, not many will be interested. Those who do work for them will manufacture sub-standard stuff because the PSUs will accept anything if they are bribed enough.

This isn't something which is exactly a secret, but the scale of corruption combined with pettiness and greed of the PSU employees as described was quite amazing to hear.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Thakur_B » 25 Jan 2015 07:30

IRDE is looking for 1280X1024 MWIR digital IDDCA (INTEGRATED DETECTOR DEWAR COOLER ASSEMBLY) alongwith proximity electronics. I wonder what is that for? That is a very high resolution array. IRST maybe ?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby sivab » 25 Jan 2015 07:48

Livefist @livefist · 11h 11 hours ago

India's @DPIDRDO Pinaka Mk.2 multi-rocket system successfully tested last month. Range upped from 38km to 60km!


Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 14:51

jamwal wrote:I was talking to a Medium/small business owner a few days back. His plant used to manufacture stuff for one of biggest PSUs in defence. Without going in to too much detail, let's say that things they manufactured are used by Army, Air Force in their offensive as well as defensive capabilities. Vital components, chassis and much more of many different products. Perks include high margin, assured work supply and everything that one needs to run a good business.

But they were forced to stop accepting orders due to massive corruption. The inspectors who give final approvals come with very dry hands and demand a lot of greasing. For examples sake, the final batch needs approval from 2-3 inspectors. Anyone of them can let the entire lot worth crores go to waste for any reason under the sun. At times, an inspector would get offended over the fact that one inspector was treated to a lunch in a fancier restaurant while he was taken to a less expensive place. In this case, meals and drinks in expensive restaurants are just one of the ways of paying bribes to these corrupt PSU employees.

When we whine about defence industry being monopolised by big PSUs, slow rate of production of Arjun, LCA etc., keep in mind that as long as the stranglehold of PSUs on defence manufacturing is not broken, things will not change. They are corrupt, inefficient and a hurdle rather than aid in path of progress. HAL, OFB, BHEL and other such PSUs will need to source components from private suppliers like the one I met to manufacture artillery, planes, tanks, radars etc. But when these suppliers with expertise are being harassed by PSU staff for bribes like that, not many will be interested. Those who do work for them will manufacture sub-standard stuff because the PSUs will accept anything if they are bribed enough.

This isn't something which is exactly a secret, but the scale of corruption combined with pettiness and greed of the PSU employees as described was quite amazing to hear.


Shameful!! Were the inspectors only PSU? IIRC DGQA and others also have a say in inspections but for initial batches.
After all the efforts the developers go to source stuff from private industry or even have them develop it, these so called inspectors sabotage the entire effort.

We really need to put L&T, Tata and other firms as equivalent to all the PSUs and give them equal rights to the PSUs to work with DRDO/CSIR etc on R&D programs and get them to production and also scale up MSMEs. Only competition will knock some sense into the OFBS etc.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 15:00

sivab wrote:
Livefist @livefist · 11h 11 hours ago

India's @DPIDRDO Pinaka Mk.2 multi-rocket system successfully tested last month. Range upped from 38km to 60km!


Image


Beautiful.

But this could be a stock image? Looks like the same here..

Image

Not that Mk-2 looks very different. But its 5.2 mtrs versus the 4.95 mtrs length of Mk1

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_5Fqc5MZe4o/U ... MBRL-1.JPG

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby krishnan » 25 Jan 2015 15:03

they are look different

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 15:22

Perhaps somebody can measure the length..

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby krishnan » 25 Jan 2015 19:08

one thing , the photos have been take at the same time of release , are they pre programmed

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 20:00

Pandyan you rock.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 Jan 2015 20:01

Now for this to go into mass production. Some 4 regiments at least.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby rohitvats » 25 Jan 2015 23:01

Karan M wrote:Now for this to go into mass production. Some 4 regiments at least.


I think/hope this increase in range of the rocket is the reason we've not seen more Regiments of Pinaka; at least, I've not been able to find trace of any new regiments. RD Parade contingent this year is also from 1890 Rocket Regiment - which I think is one of the first to be inducted.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 26 Jan 2015 00:46

pandyan wrote:New Picture:
ratio of rocket length to blue circle diameter in the picture = 12.74

Old Picture:
ratio of rocket length to brown circle/dabba diameter in the picture = 11.69

so, new rocket is indeed longer.

I used Karan's rocket length to cross check and verify if dabba diameter is the same in both the pictures. it is at ~0.41m.

so, new picture rocket length is approx 5.2m and old picture rocket length is approx 4.9m


Great job. This is what BRF is about!!!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 26 Jan 2015 01:00

Interesting..ARDE (I guess) scientists in the cabin as well.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby NRao » 26 Jan 2015 23:05

A few very good data points:

Deft Defence Minister on a Mission to Ensure India is Respected and Feared in the World

Very interesting too.



The guns have fallen relatively silent on India’s borders for the past few weeks. Even the Pakistani establishment seems to have reined in jihadis for now. Secularists may attribute the unexpected fall in the number of border incursions and infiltrations to the Obama visit, though the Indian Army said two days ago that 150 militants are waiting behind LoC to cross over. But the Olive Branch Brigade has conveniently forgotten that India now has a defence minister who neither barks without biting nor starts snoring when jawans are being maimed and civilians are massacred. And when he bites, it turns out to be fatal for the foe. Ever since 59-year-old Manohar Gopalkrishna Prabhu Parrikar took over as the 24th defence minister, protecting the country and its men in uniform has become his Mission 24X7. For the past three months, his actions have been unconventional and his comments acidic, which have pained peaceniks. Last week, he stirred a hornet’s nest with the explosive revelation that some former Indian PMs compromised our deep intelligence assets in Pakistan. No other defence minister has ever charged any chief executive of the country of treason. But it was not just an off-the-cuff remark. It was a calculated strategy on Parrikar’s part to silence those who are out to sabotage and oppose India’s new aggressive stance against its inimical neighbour. For the past 10 years, the Indian defence establishment has been forced to face the enemy with both hands tied behind its back and mouth bridled. Now, through his frank statements and quick decision-making, Parrikar has changed the entire narrative and grammar of India’s defence and strategic policy. He hardly bothers about the nuances and spins offered to him by agents of Western think tanks.

On Monday, as India’s defence minister, he would be playing the host at the Republic Day Parade, for which US President Barack Obama is the chief guest. While Parrikar is busy in conference with backroom diplomats and defence officials to anticipate every possible hiccup in the execution of his plans, the media is more concerned about Obama’s Beast and his romantic but now aborted visit to the Taj Mahal. As a member of the all-powerful Cabinet Committee on Defence, he has been chosen as the pointsman to finalise various defence and strategic pacts. PM Modi knows Parrikar wouldn’t be swayed by US mania and instead, would do some plain-speaking to the business-minded Americans.

Defence experts feel that Parrikar’s strong comments and inflexible approach towards Pakistan has forced the US and Western world to look at the insurgency-infested country with suspicion. Parrikar was uncompromising when he made it clear to the West that it has to choose between a democratic India and terror habitat Pakistan. Last month, the defence ministry read the riot act to US Secretary of State John Kerry that India wouldn’t be able to do business with the US unless it forces Pakistan to dismantle terror camps and ban terrorist outfits operating on its soil. It is not a coincidence that the Sharif government banned a few of them and Obama spoke against terror camps prior to landing in India. Such high testosterone actions were never expected from the US in the past, because of India’s wavering stand on Pakistan. The Americans were particularly taken aback by the threatening tenor of Parrikar’s repeated warnings to Pakistan. When incursions rose exponentially, he sent a clear message to the Indian armed forces. “Our (NDA government) response is: don’t hesitate. React appropriately without holding yourself back.” He mandated that they should retaliate “with double the force” against all ceasefire violations.

Parrikar’s security-minded preoccupation with Pakistan is not his only virtue. He is very impatient with the slow speed in procurement of defence equipment and the largely dysfunctional DRDO. Last month, when he terminated the services of DRDO chief Avinash Chander—who was on a temporary extension—it signalled his intent of promoting innovative thinking. Parrikar feels that it is the DRDO’s failure that has made India heavily dependent on defence imports. On Chander’s exit, he remarked: “I thought that at 64, a person (Chander) probably thinks in a more cautious way. The scientist world today requires probably a much younger generation.”

Another bold decision of Parrikar’s was legalising the role of defence agents, ignoring all possible adverse impact. Within two months in his job, he told officials to draw up a roadmap for legalising the role of these agents. Aware of the damage done to many politicians and civil servants through their dealings with them, Parrikar felt it was better to bring all hidden persuaders into the public gaze so that their connections become transparent to all. He says, “Several times we require feedback and also someone who can get us information. There are some foreign companies which want to come to India... They can’t go on sending their people here.” But he also made clear that it was just an idea, and a “clear cut” policy would be announced soon on engaging representatives for arms procurements, which will also provide for punitive action against firms found giving kickbacks.

As Goa’s CM, Parrikar dealt with various stake holders directly on all issues. He wouldn’t mind walking down to the hotels and offices of those whom he thought would be useful for his state’s development. He has carried this culture to the defence ministry. Soon after Modi approved the hike in FDI in defence, Parrikar invited a number of Indian corporates to Goa on December 27. He was assisted only by his private secretary at the meeting, which was attended by representatives of leading defence equipment manufactures like Kalyani Group, Bharat Forge, Godrej and Boyce, Ashok Leyland, Tata Advanced Systems and Larsen & Toubro. Parrikar is playing the role of a reformer for whom defence production is not a clandestine business, but a source of boosting the Make in India campaign. As CM, his mission was to make the tiny state of Goa a vibrant global tourist destination. Now as defence minister, his vigilant eyes are constantly examining every chink in India’s defence armour and seal it mercilessly. Parrikar’s idea of India is a nation, which is both feared and respected not just in the neighbourhood, but in the entire world.

prabhuchawla@newindianexpress.com

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 27 Jan 2015 01:08

There is a lot of buttering going on in the above article by Chawla, in order to align to the present dispensation and some scare mongering as well "feared by the world" indeed. Parrikar has done nothing of the sort and being a mature politician wont do so either. Facts dont align to some of the statements in the article either.

It should be clear by now that for whatever reason, Chander fell afoul of Modi & decision was taken by Appt Committee headed by Modi to drop him. Parrikar a latecomer to the decision/mess decided to stand up for his boss and justified it with some ipso facto statements (youth/contract - clearly false as ISRO chief was appointed with similar restrictions and a statement that UPA put AC in place in a shady manner, again not very convincing as by those standards every otherUPA appointee would already have been dropped). Parrikars initial reaction let the cat out of the bag ("even I learnt from TV") but he did what he could to salvage the situation later (being a seasoned and loyal politician).

Having said that, his initial steps have been positive and he has not been responsible for the AC fiasco. Hopefully he will continue on positive lines and it does seem he is far more interested in the portfolio and doing it justice than Antony or his predecessors were. His meeting the SME/MSMEs/pvt sector, making common sensical but much required statements on Su-30/Rafale, Su-30 serviceability, Pensions for disabled soldiers etc are a step in the positive direction.

His handling of the CG stuff was a bit muddled and not forceful enough to put the doubters in their place but hopefully he has by now realized what a den of snakes he is dealing with, in the Indian MSM and proceeds accordingly.
IMHO with current info., he will be a good RM. Lets see.


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ravip » 27 Jan 2015 18:40

If barath karnad is to be believed, he in his blog states that AC sought permission for 12k range missile and PMO denied the permission and his removal has got some connection with the POTUS visit.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jamwal » 27 Jan 2015 19:04

This longer ranged Pinaka is one of the best news related to Indian defence in last 2-3 months. Godrej, L&T, Mahindra are all involved in the manufacturing process of the launchers. Induction should be fast, if it clears the trials. Only stumbling block that I know of is the slow rate of rocket production. There was a report that the plant capacity was to be increased. Any updates ?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jamwal » 27 Jan 2015 19:29

Big Upgrade: Indian PM To Inaugurate Aero India 2015
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/01/ ... urate.html

In what will be a significantly upgraded profile for India's big aerospace show, Prime Minister Narendra Modi is all set to inaugurate Aero India 2015 on February 18. The biennial show is traditionally kicked off by the incumbent Defence Minister. This time, Prime Minister Modi is said to be interested in getting his 'Make in India' message more play at the show, and will send out the message in his inaugural speech.

Over the last few weeks, the PM hasn't let it rest. He's brought up the 'Make in India' message during meetings with the Russian defence minister, U.S. President and virtually anyone else looking to sell India stuff. Several decisions taken by his new government reflect the drive too -- most prominently the scrapping of a near-complete light helicopter competition. Vendors and firms have been quick to reconfigure and course-correct their own campaigns so they fit easier with the new government's too-loud-to-miss call for local investment. It'll be most interesting to see what firms doing and looking to do aerospace business in India think of the drive. More here soon.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby JE Menon » 27 Jan 2015 20:13

>>If barath karnad is to be believed, he in his blog states that AC sought permission for 12k range missile and PMO denied the permission

If so, then what might have been the the issue with displaying Agni in the R-Day parade, I wonder?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Thakur_B » 27 Jan 2015 21:25

jamwal wrote:This longer ranged Pinaka is one of the best news related to Indian defence in last 2-3 months. Godrej, L&T, Mahindra are all involved in the manufacturing process of the launchers. Induction should be fast, if it clears the trials. Only stumbling block that I know of is the slow rate of rocket production. There was a report that the plant capacity was to be increased. Any updates ?


The Pinaka production rate was upgraded to 2000 rockets annually a couple of years back. The Pinaka mk2 will enter production with a minimum production rate of 5000 with the line capable of delivering 20000 to 30000 rockets annually.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories3042_DRDO_strives_self_sufficient_armament_designer.htm

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby member_28722 » 27 Jan 2015 22:04

NRao wrote:A few very good data points:

Deft Defence Minister on a Mission to Ensure India is Respected and Feared in the World

Very interesting too.



Very good read and good to see the DM being given a proper free hand to bring about actual progress.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby NRao » 27 Jan 2015 23:52

Some more details?

India, US to kick off joint production on 4 defence projects


NEW DELHI: Renewing their expansive defence framework for another 10 years, India and the US on Sunday decided to kick off joint manufacturing of four relatively modest military products and explore the development of two more high-end technologies.


That is the crux of the DTTI effort to date. Nothing more, nothing less.

Four simple projects to improve "confidence". "Joint manufacturing".

Two high-end tech to explore possibilities.............. absolutely nothing decided. Blank sheet of paper.

The two nations agreed to step up joint combat exercises, maritime security endeavours, intelligence-sharing mechanisms, military exchanges and the like through the framework, which has the key new element of Defence Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI) to bolster India's fledgling defence-industrial base, as reported by TOI on January 11.


This being a part of a larger picture: India deciding to play a large part on the global scene (note: South China Sea and participating in dealing with IS)

The DTTI will be launched with four aptly-called "pathfinder projects" since India wants to first ascertain how these "not-so-complex technologies" actually materialize on the ground. The Indian defence establishment, after all, is yet to fully shed its long-standing inhibitions about the US being a reliable long-term supplier of top-notch technologies.


Cannot be overemphasized. Apprehension is rampant on both sides.

The four products to be co-produced are {1} the next-generation Raven unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), {2} "roll-on, roll-off" intelligence-gathering and reconnaissance modules for C-130J Super Hercules aircraft, {3} mobile electric hybrid power sources and {4} "uniform integrated protection ensemble increment-2 (chemical, biological warfare protection gear for soldiers)".


Note: co-produce. Not sure if it also includes co-market+sale.

The Raven, for instance, is not an advanced spy or combat drone. A hand-launched mini drone, it is used by soldiers in the battlefield to keep tabs on enemy formations within a range of 10km.

The two sides, however, plan to extend its range to 18km and flying endurance to six hours from the existing four hours. Similarly, the 12 C-130Js acquired by India from the US for over $2 billion since 2007 did not have the requisite surveillance modules that they will now get.

Both Obama and Modi promised the DTTI would take the bilateral defence cooperation to a new level altogether with "additional joint projects in the near future". Towards this end, the decision to set up working groups to explore development of aircraft carrier technologies and jet engines is crucial.

India has miserably flopped to develop the Kaveri engine for its indigenous Tejas light combat aircraft, which is going to be powered by American GE engines for the foreseeable future.

As for aircraft carriers, India is currently constructing the 40,000-tonne INS Vikrant at Cochin Shipyard, as also planning a second, much larger one thereafter. The two sides are likely to collaborate on the electromagnetic aircraft launch systems — which propel fighters into the sky from carrier decks.

Indian ambassador to US S Jaishshankar said the purpose of the DTTI was to identify technologies which are unique and also viable to produce. "Two of the (pathfinder) projects are with American companies, two with the US government. DTTI was announced a few years ago but it has really become operational now," he said.

The US has been hard-selling a score of "transformative defence technologies" for co-development and co-production with India under the DTTI, which range from the next-generation of Javelin anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and MH-60 Romeo multi-role helicopters to long-endurance UAVs and 127mm warship guns.

But India has chosen simpler technologies to get the process going. Rejecting the American offer, it has already chosen an initial off-the-shelf purchase of Israeli Spike ATGMs, with 321 launchers and 8,356 missiles, for Rs 3,200 crore.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 28 Jan 2015 02:10

Whats so great about the Raven when you have several Indian public and private UAVs?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Prem Kumar » 28 Jan 2015 04:41

These are all just breadcrumbs. The only thing the US wanted out of this visit was the Nuke deal & it looks like they got what they wanted

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nash » 28 Jan 2015 08:04

"roll-on, roll-off" intelligence-gathering and reconnaissance modules for C-130J Super Hercules aircraft


Is this above project to get something like Indian version of EC-130?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Jaeger » 28 Jan 2015 11:59

@nash, it could be something to do with this:

Shadow Harvest

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nash » 28 Jan 2015 12:33

Thanks a lot Jaeger, it can be more than I thought.

But if this project go through and get replicated in other aspects , then the order book can easily go up to dozens.

I would say good back up of MTA.


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