India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Karan M
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 05 Feb 2015 00:55

http://ibnlive.in.com/blogs/sauravjha/2 ... power.html
Maiden canisterised launch of the Agni-V ICBM marks India's arrival as a missile power

This morning's maiden canisterised launch of the Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) developed Agni V Intercontinental Ballistic Missile (ICBM) marks the arrival of India as a missile power, no two ways about it. The missile struck its designated target area somewhere in the Southern Indian Ocean within just 20 minutes from launch. With a range of 'easily more than 5500 km', one finds that India now has the ability to hold all of China's Eastern Seaboard cities at risk from Peninsular India. But again, there is more to this missile than its range capability. In technological terms this missile represents the coming of age for India of a very long range payload delivery capability that is both rather accurate as well as survivable.

First up, Watch the video of this morning's launch courtesy DRDO.

The Agni V has a contemporary guidance package that utilises an indigenous ring laser gyroscope inertial navigation system (RLG-INS) coupled with a micro-inertial navigation system or MINGS. Both the RLG-INS and MINGS are capable of receiving multi-constellation updates from satellite navigation systems such as the American NAVSTAR GPS and the Russian GLONASS as well as India's own IRNSS to remove accumulated errors in their measurements.

However, IRNSS even after it is fully deployed this year will not be able to provide coverage to the Agni-V over much of its trajectory, and foreign SATNAV systems cannot always be relied upon for targeting purposes as the signal itself may be switched off especially on the home stretch. Nevertheless, DRDO is confident that the combination of RLG-INS and MINGS, the latter being essentially a MEMS-based miniaturised magnetometer incorporated for redundancy, is capable of providing the 'necessary' accuracy at max range for the Agni V. The RLG itself has a bias drift of only 0.01º/h and this represents a significant improvement over older missiles in the Agni series which use a dynamically tuned gyroscope-INS coupled with a star-sighting system for navigation.

The superior accuracy of the Agni V can also be attributed to the incorporation of a much more powerful onboard computer. In the past, operating such processors came with weight and space penalties, given that the PCB based hardware enabling such processors consisted of myriad integrated circuits which led to the onboard computer (OBC) weighing almost 5 kg. However, Indian missiles will now incorporate system on chip (SOC) based OBCs that weigh just 200 grams and boast 6-7 times greater processor capability. The embedded SOC concept requires very little power and gives far greater leeway in warhead configuration besides enhancing efficiency.

Agni V is not just more accurate, but is also more reliable and indeed survivable. While its 2.0-m-diameter first stage motor is the same as that of the Agni III and made of 250 grade maraging steel, its second and third stages have carbon composite casings. This extensive use of carbon composites lowers the weight of the Agni V relative to a similar missile having only steel motor casings. It also therefore facilitates greater fuel fraction, thereby enhancing range.

Now maraging steel certainly has very attractive features such as ultrahigh strength coupled with high fracture toughness, but comes with a weight penalty when contrasted with composites like glass reinforced plastic. Moreover maraging steel is also rather expensive compared to carbon composites and is naturally subject to the vagaries of nature via corrosion that carbon composites are not. In the future, even the first stage of the Agni V will use carbon composite motor casings and that would take care of the issue of corrosion altogether and enhance overall structural integrity. The Agni V also relies on digitally connected multi-channel communications within its body for the control system, thereby reducing a lot of the cabling that would have otherwise gone into such missiles. This serves to reduce the risk of failure in the missile system and increases dependability.

The use of corrosion-resistant composites and digital connectivity within the missile makes it easier in some sense to turn the Agni-V into a classic 'wooden round' i.e a canisterised missile system transportable by road and rail ready to launch on demand, with an almost maintenance free stowage and storage life of 10 years or so. The Agni-V in canisterised configuration consists of a mission ready missile, a gas generator for ejecting the missile out of the canister to a height of about 30 metres at which point the Stage-I motor ignites, and the canister itself that provides protection besides serving as a cold-launch tube. This cold launch scheme obviates the need to add a jet deflector to the launcher and also allows the missile to be launched from relatively unprepared strips since the strength of the launching surface becomes far less of a concern. A fully automated inspection system based on air-coupled ultrasonic technique for the Agni 5 canister has been developed as well.

The missile canister sits on the Agni-V's Transport-cum-Tilting vehicle-5 (TCT-5), designed and developed by DRDO's Vehicle Research and Development Establishment, Ahmednagar. TCT-5 has a 140 ton gross vehicle weight hydraulic gooseneck steerable trailer launching mechanism with overall dimensions of 30 m (length) x 3.2 m (width) x 4.4 m (height). It has an electronic controller for all auto and remote operations, a 23 kVA genset, a PTO driven hydraulic power pack and can therefore carry out launch operations without any external power source and logistics. The Agni-V itself is 17 metres long and has a launch weight of about 50 tons with a 1.5 ton payload.


Now, while an Agni V locked and loaded sitting in a canister somewhere in India is not exactly what China likes to hear first thing in the morning, the middle kingdom could actually have more to worry about. The Agni V's re-entry vehicle a.k.a warhead shown in previously released pictures may turn out to be rather manoeuvrable making things difficult for emerging Chinese terminal anti-ballistic missile (ABM) defences. Incidentally, the third stage of the Agni V is a conical motor which allows for greater acceleration in flight and makes it more difficult for mid-course interceptors to tackle it as well. All three stages of the Agni-V in any case have flex nozzles control systems which enhance manoeuvrability during flight.

Two more tests in the canisterised configuration will be done before the Agni-V is inducted into the Strategic Forces Command. The Agni V design may also serve as a baseline for a longer ranged and heavier missile that will carry multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles (MIRV) and this missile may be designated Agni-VI.

However the development that I will truly look forward to is the emergence of the Agni V as an operationally responsive space launch system which essentially refers to the ability to put small satellite payloads into orbit on demand from the military. In an age where China is proliferating anti-satellite systems, that is one capability that India must certainly have.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Nikhil T » 05 Feb 2015 05:02



Mr Tyagi has certainly brought transformative change to HAL. Not many people gave him a chance when as CEO of relatively obscure Pawan Hans, he was asked to take over HAL. The idea of building planes with company money while MoD is working on the order specifics will lead to better capacity utilization of HAL's production facilities. Also, the realization that HAL needs to primarily be the IP/Systems Integration organization rather than a deep manufacturer is timely. I would've loved to hear more about what changes have been done to the culture of the firm - incentive structures, team sizes and accountability. That, I fear, is as important as above steps and certainly more difficult.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby RoyG » 05 Feb 2015 11:18

Empowered Committee on Semiconductor Wafer Fabrication manufacturing facilities reconstituted

New Delhi, January 28, 2015

The Union Cabinet today approved the reconstitution of the Empowered Committee to set up Semiconductor Wafer Fabrication (FAB) projects.

Former Defence Research & Development Organisation (DRDO) V K Saraswat, who is now a member of the newly-set up NITI Aayog will be the chairman of the committee.

The other members of the committee are former Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) Chairman K Radhakrishnan; the Secretary, Department of Expenditure; the Secretary, Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion; Dr. M.J. Zarabi, former CMD, Semiconductor Complex Ltd. (SCL), technical expert; Prof. Narendra Krishna Karmarkar, Distinguished Visiting Professor, IIT-Bombay; and the Secretary, Department of Electronics and Information Technology, who will be the member-convener.

In addition, the committee may co-opt any other experts, an official press release said.

The Government had in 2011 constituted an Empowered Committee to identify technology and investors and to recommend incentives to be provided to set up two FAB facilities in the country. The committee submitted its recommendations to the Government, based on which the Cabinet accorded approval for establishing two FAB manufacturing facilities by two consortia, one led by Jaiprakash Associates Ltd. along with IBM (USA) and Tower Jazz (Israel) and the other led by HSMC Technologies India Pvt. Ltd. along with ST Microelectronics (France/Italy) and Silterra (Malaysia).

It also authorized the Empowered Committee to take all decisions to implement the FAB projects in furtherance of the decision of the Cabinet. Letters of Intent have been issued to the two consortia on 19.03.2014 for setting up FAB facilities in India.

The setting up of Semiconductor Wafer Fabrication units is a critical pillar required to promote Electronics System Design and Manufacturing in India which will stimulate the flow of capital and technology, create employment opportunities, help higher value addition in the electronic products manufactured in India, reduce dependence on imports, and lead to innovation, the release added.

http://netindian.in/news/2015/01/28/000 ... -facilitie


Excellent development. We will also need to begin creating our own operating system to secure out critical servers and military networks.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby RoyG » 05 Feb 2015 11:19

India, Singapore in pact to set up chip-making units here

Varun Aggarwal, ET Bureau Feb 3, 2015, 11.33AM IST

BENGALURU: As India gets closer to setting up two semiconductor wafer fabrication plants, Singapore companies are looking at setting up manufacturing units here and tap into large engineering talent in the country.

To speed up such activity , India Electronics and Semiconductor Association (IESA) is signing a Memorandum of Understanding with Singapore Semiconductor Industry Association (SSIA) with an objective to establish and develop trade and technical cooperation between the electronics and semiconductor industries of both the countries.


"Earlier things were sporadic and ambiguous, but now the India government has come up with many schemes that can help Singapore companies decide how to go about things," Meenu Sarin, secretary, SSIA, told ET. "In March 2014, Ajay Kumar (joint secretary, Deity, Government of India) met all the stakeholders in Singapore to come and set up base in India. It is a mutual win-win for both of us."

The two FABs, which are being setup with an overall investment of over $10 billion, are the biggest component of the ESDM policy that was rolled out in 2012.

Singapore has just 1,300 VLSI engineers, which limits the companies in the country to grow. India, on the other hand, has a VLSI talent pool of over 20,000. "Singapore is a small country with a population of just 5.2 million. India has good skillset for VLSI design engineers and we want to get that talent resource from India," said Sarin.

IESA and SSIA also launched a joint report, prepared by EY, titled India-Singapore Electronic and Semiconductor Design and Manufacturing industry collaboration opportunities at the IESA's Vision Summit in Bangalore.

"Both Singapore and Indian markets are considered highly important markets in the global EDSM sector. There are emerging opportunities for Singapore companies to support the speed up of the semiconductor FABs setup in India and also the electronics products creations as the demand continues to grow manifold in India," said Ashok Chandak, chairman, IESA and senior director, NXP Semiconductors.

There is a large trade imbalance between India and Singapore at the moment, especially when it comes to the electronics industry . As per the IESA report, India imports $2.7-billion worth of electronics from Singapore at the moment, while exports only $0.3-billion worth of electronics. With the help of the collaboration between the two countries, the report suggests that India's electronic export to Singapore can grow at a rate of 18% per annum to touch $3 billion by 2025.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... ssociation


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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SaiK » 05 Feb 2015 23:05

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 135704.cms

the story is getting more intriguing ! what is next? perhaps we need a separate thread for this thriller.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby RoyG » 06 Feb 2015 01:27

Madhya Pradesh Announces Free Land, Buildings for Chipmakers

"Happy to announce that Madhya Pradesh government has approved Analog Semiconductor Fab Policy. Minimum investment under this policy has to be about Rs. 3,000 crores. State government will provide free land and reimburse cost of shell (plant building) as well," MP Science and Technology Secretary Hari Ranjan Rao told PTI.
Madhya Pradesh is the first state to come up with an electronic chip plant specific policy.

The secretary was in Bengaluru to attend the IESA Vision Summit.

The analog semiconductors are used in all kind of electronic products to connect various components inside them, such as connecting touchscreens with circuits, monitoring mobile phone battery power etc.

Rao said that government has identified 4-5 different locations with 200 acres of contiguous land for establishing semiconductor clusters in the state.

The land will be given for 50 years and will be extended further based on business case.

"Besides this we will provide dedicated power to plants through two grids round the clock and water at doorstep of the plant. It will be provided at internationally competitive tariff for 10 years," Rao said.

MP is the only state that has set up green-field electronics manufacturing clusters in Bhopal and Jabalpur.

The state government will build four lane road to connect electronic chip or semiconductor plants with the airport.

"We are also in in talks with commerce ministry at centre for setting up free trade area near airports so that there is hassle free movement of logistics," Rao said.

Indian Electronics and Semiconductor Association Chairman Ashok Chandak said that analog semiconductors play a vital role in making IoT (Internet of Things) products that can be controlled using the Internet.

"Policy contours were discussed with MP government about three months back and today it is in place. We are happy to see MP government taking fast decision when it comes to investment," Chandak said.

Rao said that under the policy, state government will also work out a mechanism to reimburse chipmakers some cost of experts that they will bring from abroad to operate the plants and at the same time make arrangements with the company to develop skilled workforce in the state.

http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS ... 0315080305

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Feb 2015 02:25

Karan M: Do you know whether A5 can be refitted after 10 years to extend the life further?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Prem Kumar » 06 Feb 2015 03:14

Good to see a more hands-on Defense Minister, but its grating to see why the Army would complain to him (about parachutes) without giving feedback to DRDO first. Also, I can't help but get the feeling that Parikkar is a bit too eager to make his mark in his job and is going around spraying bullets at DRDO (first the Avinash Chander fiasco & its R K Gupta fallout and now this). The services has his ear. I just hope he realizes that DRDO is a key part of Make In India, unless he settles for screwdriver tech & calls it a success. Punching DRDO below the belt just when they are starting to churn out armaments quickly reflects a poor understanding of the situation

Parrikar pulls up DRDO for delays in key projects

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SaiK » 06 Feb 2015 03:58

^did you read the last para? this needs to stop. right now. MoD and DRDO should sit together and not let the media handle this business.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Shreeman » 06 Feb 2015 04:41

Oye, oye, oye. Something is wrong with that there defense minister.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Victor » 06 Feb 2015 04:44

It all makes perfect sense if we assume, as we rationally would, that the armed forces, MoD and PMO are (finally) in perfect sync regarding the DPSUs. It has nothing to do with Parrikar "making his mark" (laughable concept) since everything he does and says is likely perfectly in sync with PMO. BTW, DRDO or any other DPSU is not "a key part of Make in India" although they have been solely responsible for the Made in India so far. The very reason for the urgent Make in India push is the underwhelming nature of Made in India.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 07:31

Prem Kumar wrote:Good to see a more hands-on Defense Minister, but its grating to see why the Army would complain to him (about parachutes) without giving feedback to DRDO first. Also, I can't help but get the feeling that Parikkar is a bit too eager to make his mark in his job and is going around spraying bullets at DRDO (first the Avinash Chander fiasco & its R K Gupta fallout and now this). The services has his ear. I just hope he realizes that DRDO is a key part of Make In India, unless he settles for screwdriver tech & calls it a success. Punching DRDO below the belt just when they are starting to churn out armaments quickly reflects a poor understanding of the situation

Parrikar pulls up DRDO for delays in key projects


I hope this report is wrong because if it is correct, Parrikar comes across as particularly shallow. This is TNN we are talking of after all.

Looking at quadcopters used for section level infantry work/surveillance and then saying we need UAVs for 28 hours so this is not enough? What next. Going to a SARAS demo & then claiming that its not good because India "needs" Boeing 767s?? Ridiculous.

The quadcopters are equally perhaps more important than the 28 hour UAVs because of the amount of COIN work the forces and paramils are engaged in. They are also a shining example of public -private cooperation as the key developer was a private start up IdeaForge.

And doesn't he know about the programs that India is engaged in both with Israel & locally for very long range, endurance UAVs? Speaks volumes and not in a good way.

Then asking the Akash team about whether Pakistan has something similar? At an expo? Can't he have a classified presentation on SAM programs delivered to him in detail & go through those?

Going to the Brahmos stall & asking these details & "coming away satisfied".

Is this the Defence Minister of India or a teenager from one of the online forums who runs across to the various stalls and harangues them whether "we are ahead of Pakistan" its all fine. If he wanted to understand the issue even at an expo, all he had to do was ask & get a specific briefing on various programs.

So first, the Avinash Chander fiasco & now this. In that mess, he first said "I dont know about this, I saw it on TV same as you guys" sparking off the entire press coverage & then later "it was age, i didn't want him" even as details came out the ISRO Chairman in his 60's had his contract extended.

I do hope this is TNN's spin on the incident but Parrikar does need to be aware of the media being around him & using his statements for their own agenda.

There are enough OIS type shills & their wannabe dalal supporters as well to "interpret" his comments the way they want, while shilling imports as the solution with farcical claims of "make in India" and "made in India". Never mind they are in it for the money whilst pretending to be patriots.
Last edited by Karan M on 06 Feb 2015 07:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 07:43

matrimc wrote:Karan M: Do you know whether A5 can be refitted after 10 years to extend the life further?


Don't know sir, will check to see if there is any public data. But I don't see why not.
They will require an extensive check and probably rebuild in some cases. The ultrasound testing shows they are looking at managing the long term storage aspect & also these are solid motor missiles, which need checks when carted around on bad roads/no roads etc.
Given this is India & not Khan land (we don;t throw stuff away), these missiles will be checked and overhauled in a decades time until & unless the motors are gone for a toss in which case you might as well make a new one.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramdas » 06 Feb 2015 07:50

Karanji,

From news articles, appears as though Dr. R. K. Gupta's transfer (NOT expulsion) is a routine internal matter: the claim being Agni-V has completed development and is moving to production. How valid is this ? If true, isn't media creating an unnecessary controversy about a routine matter ?

Hope they use the expertise of Dr. Chander and others who will soon retire like Dr. Sekaran at least as consultants. More ideally, they could be given Scientist H positions on a contract basis to use their expertise for crucial projects.

To what extent are these changes likely to affect Agni-V production/Agni-VI development ?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 07:58

Its not a routine matter sir.
Nothing about the whole thing is routine. Its basically an internal power play which TBH does not reflect well on the people involved. Caveat, this has nothing to do with them as individuals or disrespecting their respective service to the nation. I am merely going by the events.

GOI's handling of the issue was also anything but proper.

First, Dr Chanders promotion of Tessy Chander & the subsequent media coverage of her as the Agni-V lead clearly rankled folks. He was unable to manage the fall out or get Dr Gupta onboard.
Next, its very unlikely that a shady activist running an online forum will get all the salient details of Dr Gupta (and others) to mount an attack on Dr Chander to GOI without getting inside information from parties concerned.
Finally, Dr Gupta is removed & he goes on a media spree.

What is GOI doing in this whole mess?

In the process we lose these two individuals who are fairly senior.

I dont think Agni-V production and Agni-VI development should be heavily affected because by now DRDO has multiple work centers and several layers of competent personnel. We are at Generation-V & the Project Heads are usually promoted from within the team, but the teams are well established.

But yes, morale & coordination can suffer when senior people with experience in taking timely decisions are yanked out of authoritative roles. These guys represent some three - four decades of hands on knowledge each.

At that level, its mostly about making the trade offs & reviewing progress plus handling the pressure by making decisions.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramdas » 06 Feb 2015 08:13

^Agreed that the situation is messy. But Dr. Gupta is far from removed from DRDO/ASL, right ? He is still very much one of the most senior scientists at ASL. Seems to have about five years of service left even if he is not given any extension…..

This kind of personal politics happens everywhere in Bharat…..even in academic departments… we progress in spite of this nonsense...

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 08:26

I wonder though whether he will continue at ASL & in what role. Seems to have lost the A-5 role & him going public doesn't bode well.

Personal politics is bad enough, even worse when politicians get involved.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby shaun » 06 Feb 2015 08:30

If you all go by Mr Modi have said , young scientist will be more empowered now on. As for the distinguished scientists , they will find their role in planning in GOI and R&D on defense have always been a national security , sensitive issue , so it will be prudent for Mr DM to avoid media or else we are going for a big mess.

If even 50% of what is written on TOI is true , I guess Mr DM will be axed soon.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vayutuvan » 06 Feb 2015 08:40

Karan saab: Thanks. You are 100% right. India is lot more conservative in the true sense of the word. We are born with an instinct to recycle.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 09:23

Are sir, please dont saab me. Dont deserve that.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2015 09:34

in the pvt sector, whenever a small product is successful (through efforts of individual contributors) and gets visibility and funding, a new layer of managers and their hangers on always descend on it to "manage" it and "take things to next level" and claim all the plaudits. the original troops grow disillusioned and slowly leave one by one.
I have had it happen to myself multiple times. without a sponsoring godfather its tough to get any credit or reward even if you deliver and work hard. sometimes opportunities for good work are denied, while these are created for the hangers on.

i hope drdo which has good funding and charter now, with a family of great products coming up, does not fall into infighting mess.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 09:38

spoken like a grizzled veteran saar.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2015 10:52

Prem Kumar wrote:Good to see a more hands-on Defense Minister, but its grating to see why the Army would complain to him (about parachutes) without giving feedback to DRDO first. Also, I can't help but get the feeling that Parikkar is a bit too eager to make his mark in his job and is going around spraying bullets at DRDO (first the Avinash Chander fiasco & its R K Gupta fallout and now this). The services has his ear. I just hope he realizes that DRDO is a key part of Make In India, unless he settles for screwdriver tech & calls it a success. Punching DRDO below the belt just when they are starting to churn out armaments quickly reflects a poor understanding of the situation

Parrikar pulls up DRDO for delays in key projects



Sorry if Parrikar wants a briefing he should hav eit in his office. He can't be throwing his weight around in public berating his subordinates who cant hit or talk back.

One more fiasco I think he will have to be shunted back to the small state he comes from. Three strikes he is out.

IIT education was wasted on him.

Gambhiraam, Vinayam, Samayam & Sandharbam all are missing in a mantri.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby kit » 06 Feb 2015 11:49

Totally agree with Ramana ... i had thought an IIT education would make one tech savy ..DRDO is just about coming on its own ..the mantri cant go about brandishing DRDO totally ..the tech base of the country is only so much and see how much S & T funding happens for India ..also why is he comparing with PK ?? Tomorrow he will compare with China which spends ten times more on research !!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chetak » 06 Feb 2015 12:05

kit wrote:Totally agree with Ramana ... i had thought an IIT education would make one tech savy ..DRDO is just about coming on its own ..the mantri cant go about brandishing DRDO totally ..the tech base of the country is only so much and see how much S & T funding happens for India ..also why is he comparing with PK ?? Tomorrow he will compare with China which spends ten times more on research !!


+100 @ramana and @kit.

Maybe some one should tweet him to point out such basic pillars of man management. He is not a bad chap.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gyan » 06 Feb 2015 12:30

Berating DRDO is easy but what about major reform or increase in funding for R&D has been brought about? DPSUs are merrily going around doing labeling and assembly of foreign products without any development. Even the ToT is not used. For instance, ToT for Shakti Engine was done by 2010-11 but how many engine have been "manufactured" by HAL? NIL!

Note:- Manufactered does not mean assembled from CKD or SKD kits.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gyan » 06 Feb 2015 12:37

ramana wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Good to see a more hands-on Defense Minister, but its grating to see why the Army would complain to him (about parachutes) without giving feedback to DRDO first. Also, I can't help but get the feeling that Parikkar is a bit too eager to make his mark in his job and is going around spraying bullets at DRDO (first the Avinash Chander fiasco & its R K Gupta fallout and now this). The services has his ear. I just hope he realizes that DRDO is a key part of Make In India, unless he settles for screwdriver tech & calls it a success. Punching DRDO below the belt just when they are starting to churn out armaments quickly reflects a poor understanding of the situation

Parrikar pulls up DRDO for delays in key projects



Sorry if Parrikar wants a briefing he should hav eit in his office. He can't be throwing his weight around in public berating his subordinates who cant hit or talk back.

One more fiasco I think he will have to be shunted back to the small state he comes from. Three strikes he is out.

IIT education was wasted on him.

Gambhiraam, Vinayam, Samayam & Sandharbam all are missing in a mantri.


+1

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Rahul M » 06 Feb 2015 12:53

Victor wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Obviously, you didn't think through before typing out your drivel.

Why don't you support your bullcr@p and enlighten on which PSU has supplied or thought about the radars this company is talking about. They say it's a first globally.

warned. banned for 3 days.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby PratikDas » 06 Feb 2015 13:03

Rahul M wrote:
Victor wrote:Why don't you support your bullcr@p and enlighten on which PSU has supplied or thought about the radars this company is talking about. They say it's a first globally.

warned. banned for 3 days.

300% boost in signal to noise ratio on LCA thread predicted.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Yagnasri » 06 Feb 2015 13:34

Seems that MP is working like a bull in a china shop. If he is only hearing one side - that is forces side- and not taking over all state of affairs into account, then we are into serious problem. The mess is dues to actions and omissions of all the people and most importantly of DM. Singiling DRDO or forces will not serve the purpose. If make in India is the aim and policy, then all he has to do is to

1. Tell the DRDO, DPSUS and Forces that we are not going to import anything and they have to shape up for private sector competition right away.
2. Convert O.F.B. into a holding company and individual units into individual companies right away.
3. Free all exports to specified nations like Vietnam.
4. Just list the immediate and long terms needs of the forces and make immediate once for make in India and long term once for "made in India".
5. Ban all exports - at least for IA. ( I think gurus will have serious objection to this)

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2015 14:20

seems similar to new SVP/GMs who came in every year at a previous employer, with a new ppt vision doc and imagined that "management by hand waving" would generate success.

what was MPs previous background, did he ever do a regular job or a career student era politician?

more and more I grow unimpressed by our DM. I suppose the whole "iit alumni" thing should have raised my spider senses much earlier.

if you want to push change , first be part of the woodwork and understand everything including the context of historical decisions, then push change. hand waving is not suddenly going to convert the tech competency of our nation to lockheed or northrop levels.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 06 Feb 2015 14:50

Yagnasri wrote:Seems that MP is working like a bull in a china shop. If he is only hearing one side - that is forces side- and not taking over all state of affairs into account, then we are into serious problem. The mess is dues to actions and omissions of all the people and most importantly of DM. Singiling DRDO or forces will not serve the purpose. If make in India is the aim and policy, then all he has to do is to

1. Tell the DRDO, DPSUS and Forces that we are not going to import anything and they have to shape up for private sector competition right away.
2. Convert O.F.B. into a holding company and individual units into individual companies right away.
3. Free all exports to specified nations like Vietnam.
4. Just list the immediate and long terms needs of the forces and make immediate once for make in India and long term once for "made in India".
5. Ban all exports - at least for IA. ( I think gurus will have serious objection to this)


We do not know what he is saying to the Forces. At best this is conjecture. I think they are driving up the GOI agenda on both sides. Good or bad? Time will tell.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby kit » 06 Feb 2015 15:13

Yagnasri wrote:Seems that MP is working like a bull in a china shop. If he is only hearing one side - that is forces side- and not taking over all state of affairs into account, then we are into serious problem. The mess is dues to actions and omissions of all the people and most importantly of DM. Singiling DRDO or forces will not serve the purpose. If make in India is the aim and policy, then all he has to do is to

1. Tell the DRDO, DPSUS and Forces that we are not going to import anything and they have to shape up for private sector competition right away.
2. Convert O.F.B. into a holding company and individual units into individual companies right away.
3. Free all exports to specified nations like Vietnam.
4. Just list the immediate and long terms needs of the forces and make immediate once for make in India and long term once for "made in India".
5. Ban all exports - at least for IA. ( I think gurus will have serious objection to this)


you mean ban imports for IA !! ..thats quite possible DRDO can well do it ! ..interesting idea too

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2015 17:51

Karan M wrote:spoken like a grizzled veteran saar.


I was shafted three times in last decade in that manner.
So highly expert in noting the symptoms sire.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 18:18

Singha, veteran status indeed.

Meanwhile, Vishal Thapar is plugging OIS-AT on his twitter timeline. The link
http://armingindia.com/lead04-02-15.htm

Some big whoppers there. Sample :mrgreen:
OIS-AT has married Public Sector Undertaking (PSUs) expertise with private sector efficiency to dramatically shrink development cycles: Established PSUs wanted 10 years for developing some of the radars, which OIS-AT has developed between two and three years.


and

These are being launched for global markets. We will be the first Indian company to take 'Make in India' to the world," says Sanjay Bhandari, Chairman and Managing Director of OIS-AT.

OIS, the parent company that started off in 2007 to provide offsets solutions to foreign vendors, has used a first-of-its-kind business model to create advanced technological capability by creating a conglomeration of Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs) located across the country. OIS funds these SMEs to develop technologies and products, and then provides a marketing and sales umbrella.

Interestingly, despite being the repository of some cutting edge technology, OIS-AT does not have any manufacturing facility of its own. The company proposes setting up its first such facility in Rajasthan with an investment of about Rs.500 crore (Rs.5 Billion/$81 million).


No manufacturing/R&D facility yet prototypes of radars ready which incidentally look the same as "partners" radars from abroad. Very interesting and unique business model indeed.

"We are now recognized as an advanced radar system house," says a beaming Bhandari. His company owns the Intellectual Property Rights and its viability is based on an export model. The import content of these radars developed in house is less than 30 per cent, the company claims.

Recognized by whom Bhandari ji?

With these technology collaborations backing it up, the company is bidding for three key Air Defense project. "We have been working for some time now with our European technology partners and have entered into a number of collaborations as the Indian Original Equipment Manufacturer to bid for and subsequently manufacture these sophisticated systems in India," confirms Bhandari. OIS-AT will bid as the OEM for the Indian projects.

etc etc

Betcha Bhandari ji is paalitically well connected and the above "business model" is ditto as importing Polish WZT carriers and polishing them and sending them to Army as indigenous.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Sagar G » 06 Feb 2015 18:26



LOL what a bunkum article, how come nobody noticed the hilarious mistakes in this vomit from TOI(let).

Like

When DRDO officials showcased their Quadcopter drones, Parrikar asked them how long the drones could stay in the air. To this, DRDO officials said the drones could fly up to eight hours. Parrikar shot back saying this was not enough for the armed forces. "This may be useful for police surveillance. We must develop unmanned aerial vehicles, UAVs, which can last for over 28 days."


The only quadcopter drone developed by DRDO is NETRA and it doesn't fly for 8 hrs. but 30 min. only which is good for it's class and matches international competition. NETRA isn't meant for sustained long endurance recon missions but is meant as a man portable system which can be used by foot soldiers for short recon missions but expecting TOI(let) to know this is too much.

Also note that TOI(let) has no idea what a UAV is and goes on to state further that,

Quadcopters take a lot of energy, but UAVs consume less energy, he added. :rotfl:


Can someone explain WTF does this even mean ???

A case in point would be the Combat Free Fall System that DRDO supplies to the armed forces. Parrikar informed DRDO officials that the Army had brought it to his notice that imported parachutes could be used for around 100 times while the DRDO Combat Free Fall System had a life of just 40 uses.


Neither does TOI(let) has any idea about iterative development, oh wait so does the IA and IAF HQ :lol:

Then he went to the enclosure of the Akash surface-to-air missile and wanted to know how it compares with Pakistan's surface-to-air missile. To this, the officials explained that there was no comparison as Pakistan's missile was short-range whereas India's was a long-range missile. Also, the payload of the Akash missile was way ahead.


Akash is a laaang range system, yeah right :roll:

And for the grand ending of this fartical

The summary dismissal of Defence Research and Development Organisation chief Avinash Chander in mid-January has lowered the morale of several DRDO officials within the public sector defence unit and they find themselves at a loss, DRDO officials present at the Bharatiya Vigyan Expo 2015 said.


DRDO is a "public sector defence unit" :mrgreen:

As happened previously in Dr. Chander fiasco if Modi and Parikkar choose to play dumbass then they will only give our presstitutes a chance to throw mud on our establishments which isn't hard given the low level of knowledge about these things among aam junta but seeing pant wetting on BRF is a bit unexpected. Said this Parikkar has a lot of distance to cover w.r.t. being a DM worthy of being in that position, till now he hasn't impressed me and I have (maybe had) lot of expectations from him and so does many from our defence scientific community.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Sagar G » 06 Feb 2015 18:32

Karan M wrote:Singha, veteran status indeed.

Meanwhile, Vishal Thapar is plugging OIS-AT on his twitter timeline. The link
http://armingindia.com/lead04-02-15.htm

Some big whoppers there. Sample :mrgreen:


Oh come on Karan M give that guy a break, "he is a smart businessman who is trying to fill in a niche" :P :lol:

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Sagar G » 06 Feb 2015 19:22

Saurav Jha @SJha1618 · 2h 2 hours ago

I had told the good folks at DRDO to get ready for a major propaganda war the moment the Chander episode happened.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Feb 2015 19:36

Sagar G wrote:As happened previously in Dr. Chander fiasco if Modi and Parikkar choose to play dumbass then they will only give our presstitutes a chance to throw mud on our establishments which isn't hard given the low level of knowledge about these things among aam junta but seeing pant wetting on BRF is a bit unexpected. Said this Parikkar has a lot of distance to cover w.r.t. being a DM worthy of being in that position, till now he hasn't impressed me and I have (maybe had) lot of expectations from him and so does many from our defence scientific community.


Who on BRF had pant wetting etc? Speaking for myself, just a sense of disappointment at the consistent missteps by Parrikar. Exercising self censorship on some of his other recent statements which don't paint him in a positive light either. The TNN article may be lacking in details/mistaken but its not by Pandit and probably some local stringer. Might well be possible he acted the way he did.


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