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India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vips » 17 Sep 2017 04:06

DRDO unit develops mine detection, deactivation technology.

The Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) has announced the development of a technology for the detection and deactivation of land mines in battle zones, to meet the operational requirements of the Indian Army.

Anti tank mineThe technology, known as the 'Trawl System', has been designed and developed by R&D Engineers, a premier system engineering laboratory under the Armament and Combat Engineering (ACE) cluster of the DRDO, says a defence ministry release.

The indigenously-developed Trawl System is capable of breaching land mines and creating a vehicle safe lane through a minefield for the advancing columns of mechanised forces in combat zone.

The equipment consists of Trawl roller, track width mine plough and electro- magnetic device (EMD) that caters to the needs of all types of mines usually encountered by the battle tank in such a scenario.

The Trawl System developed by DRDO is capable of breaching a variety of land mines, including passive and active influence mines.

The system recently crossed a major milestone with the successful completion of blast trials in collaboration with HEMRL Pune, which demonstrated the survivability of the equipment, when subjected to successive series of blast directly underneath it.

The deployable prototype of the Trawl System is in final stage of realisation and would be shortly ready for conduct of user evaluation trials by the Army, says a DRDO release.

The indigenous development of Trawls by DRDO is an important step towards achieving self-reliance in area of critical military equipment under 'Make in India' initiative and would result in saving of precious foreign exchange for the country, the release added.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gaur » 08 Oct 2017 14:58

While not a military news per say, IMHO a potentially significant one for Indian Aerospace

India’s First 19-seater aircraft may fly soon

http://m.economictimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/indias-first-19-seater-aircraft-may-fly-soon/amp_articleshow/60723511.cms

A team of engineers is giving shape to what promises to be India’s first 19-seater indigenous passenger aircraft at a 3,000-sq feet terrace in Mumbai’s Borivili suburb, which has become a bustle of activity. Amol Yadav, a pilot with a private airline, is leading the initiative.

TAC 005, as the aircraft is called, will be ready for flight in the next four months, and is likely to give shape to India’s dream of a homegrown passenger aircraft.

Yadav said that he began work on the 19-seater aircraft to solve India’s regional connectivity issues. “In spite of having a number of private airlines, we are poor in regional connectivity. The smallest aircraft that private airlines in India have are 70-seaters, and they don’t find it cost-effective to fly them to smaller cities as they are never full.”


Yadav’s 19-seater aircraft is likely to change that situation by giving airlines and people an option of flying in a smaller plane. India hasn’t been able to build its own passenger aircraft even 70 years after independence. The National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL) had tried to build Saras, a 14-seater aircraft, but the plan had to be abandoned after the prototype crashed in 2009. NAL has recently revived the programme.

The structure of the twin-engine turbo prop built by Yadav — ET had exclusive access to the aircraft — is ready and will be powered by a Pratt & Whitney PP6A engine.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Zynda » 08 Oct 2017 15:36

I hope the above happens. BTW, I could not find any info about their team (except the pilot dude & one more person). Could not find them on LinkedIn as well. Was just curious to find out more about the team profile & stuff...

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 09 Oct 2017 01:55

I like the initiative for the 19 seater plane.

Five more than Saras. Makes it more economical.
Also not conventional layout. No pusher config.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 03:45

There's already a proven 19 seater with hundreds built with a v.good service record ,built also in India as we speak operating with both the mil. and civil services.It is called the .......DO-228! I can't understand the obsession to reinvent the wheel .A 34 seater DO-328 could've also built by us but we asininely did not acquire the Co.when we still are the only global manufacturers while RUAG own the brand.

I fear for the new aircraft in competition with the DO-228 built well by HAL.Our ambitious entrepreneurs should've instead looked at a bird in between the DO-228 and ATR-72. There is a req. for a 30-40 seat regional airliner.They could've fast tracked the dev. through a JV too.Some years ago Sukhoi had a 28 seat bird.There was a brochure at a prev. air show, I think with a twin-boom design.I am sure there are also other western OEM options too.Such a bird would have double the DO capacity and be able to operate to all regional Tier-3 cities with their smaller runways/airports. There could even be good mil. options too.The IN operates a large no. of DO'-228s.An ASW /MP /EW version plus utility versions for the IIAF could be derived from the basic platform.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 09 Oct 2017 05:44

No Philip, market needs both.

HAL builds for military mostly.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2017 06:23

It's not the first time that I have heard of this plane. Frankly, the chances of this working is really slim.

Do-228, Airvan 18 and Saras are the "Indian" 19 seaters to look out for.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby chola » 09 Oct 2017 06:49

Indranil wrote:It's not the first time that I have heard of this plane. Frankly, the chances of this working is really slim.

Do-228, Airvan 18 and Saras are the "Indian" 19 seaters to look out for.


Probably not the first time you heard of Yadav. But I’m certain the TAC 005 is new! TAC for Thrust Aircraft Compnay formed by Amol Yadav, former pilot for Jet airlines. He created the six-seater TAC 003 from mostly Indian parts with the engine and navigation suite from the US.

Yes, there are more established 19-seaters but India needs people like Yadav to dream. Lots more. Failure is part of success. Just like Silicon Valley, you just one success out of hundreds.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srin » 09 Oct 2017 07:14

While it is good to see more people getting into aircraft design, I'm a bit sceptical of ab initio creations especially for civilian market, where costs, they care about efficiency, spares availability, and all the certifications matter.
For new entities, it makes much better sense to become subsystem manufacturers and then designers, than be an OEM.

Do-228 is unpressurized (IIRC) and hence not suitable. Saras isn't there yet - the crash that happened 8 years ago still casts a long shadow over it. The team needs to put it behind and get it out of R&D mode. As it stands now, it is more likely to be used by services than in civilian market.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2017 11:09

Why do we need an airplane with pressurized cabin?

1. Spice jet just signed an MoU with Setouchi Holdings Inc. to buy 100 9-seater Kodiak Qwests. Too bad that they didn't go for Mahindra's Airvan 10 which just got certified in Australia. Most likely they are trying to get a loan from Japan on the lines of HSR. On the other hand, may be Mahindra's financial arm could have sweetened the deal. But, whatever. The point is that there is a market for unpressurized planes in India.
2. Dorniers do fly to Lukla daily.
3. Meanwhile, my friends in college from the NE-states (other than Assam) went home every alternate summer because it took them 3.5 days one way.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Philip » 09 Oct 2017 11:24

My point is that the DO is flying for decades here and if there is a demand prod. could be ramped up.HAL is making DOs for RUAG too who market the bird globally.A new aircraft would have to undergo testing,certification and large orders to be successful for prod. rates and the supply chain to remain competitive.Unless it comes in significantly cheaper with equiv. quality,it will come a cropper. There are established majors manufacturing similar aircraft ,what chance will the newbie have?

The 30-40 seater market is wide open.Our entrepreneur could establish a JV with a reputed manufacturer so that like the Dorniers both 228 and 328 type passer. capacity can be built using common features/components.

PS:Media today reported news of planned small airports at some unheard of places under pvt. management.The 228 and 328 classes of DOs ideal for such regional connectivity .

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 09 Oct 2017 11:41

Indranil wrote:Why do we need an airplane with pressurized cabin?

1. Spice jet just signed an MoU with Setouchi Holdings Inc. to buy 100 9-seater Kodiak Qwests. Too bad that they didn't go for Mahindra's Airvan 10 which just got certified in Australia. Most likely they are trying to get a loan from Japan on the lines of HSR. On the other hand, may be Mahindra's financial arm could have sweetened the deal. But, whatever. The point is that there is a market for unpressurized planes in India.
2. Dorniers do fly to Lukla daily.
3. Meanwhile, my friends in college from the NE-states (other than Assam) went home every alternate summer because it took them 3.5 days one way.


There are regulatory provisions as of now, which limit scheduled commercial ops of SE aircraft in commuter role. The Regional Connectivity Scheme (RCS) has tried to circumvent it by letting NSOP guys bid for it but I believe it is limited to helicopters. It is NE, J&K, Himachal and Uttarakhand which will gain maximum out of these. They have recently taken suggestions/ feedback on feasibility of allowing this. Even I have submitted my suggestions on the above. :)

The DGCA had invited stake holders for a meeting in June in which I was a part. They see the economic need in allowing SE in commuter role but have said they will take at least a year and a half to come up with something concrete. In the interim they are looking at SE vs Twin Engine safety issues and cases of one engine inoperative in flight. They are also studying the EASA proposal to promulgate the SET (IMC) (Single Engine Transport in IMC conditions) rule. Meanwhile, FAA has changed regulations based on US regulations. These regulations now permit the OEM to get their aircraft certified under various levels with the highest level permitting commuter transport operations, irrespective of number of engines. DGCA cannot blindly copy FAA as US is not a signatory to ICAO but India is.

HAL is sitting on a goldmine of opportunity with the twin engine Do 228. Made in country. No import permissions, no hassle of Customs Duty etc. The market is searching for alternatives. Just cash in.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby hnair » 09 Oct 2017 12:07

Maybe they migrated to the new forum, but the people of BRF who used to track such things, seem oblivious that Quest Kodiak sales have something called a 10:1 input into "Quest Mission Team" :lol: They are just repaying their original investors, who helped start the company

The Spicejet deal adds 10 more planes as repayment

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 09 Oct 2017 12:12

hnair wrote:Maybe they migrated to the new forum, but the people of BRF who used to track such things, seem oblivious that Quest Kodiak sales have something called a 10:1 input into "Quest Mission Team" :lol: They are just repaying their original investors, who helped start the company

The Spicejet deal adds 10 more planes as repayment


Wow! what is this set up? Thank You, never would have seen this connection.

Edit: I have since found out that Spicejet is looking for single engine sea planes and Kodiak is one of the options, though a strong one.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srin » 09 Oct 2017 18:04

Interesting read on the Dornier acquisition dated 1982: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/india-germany-in-last-stages-of-reaching-agreement-to-purchase-dornier-228-aircraft/1/391889.html

Started off as indigenous design effort, morphed into co-design with many suitors, then morphed into assembly & manufacture. Involves dozens of decision-making bodies. And lots of delays. Somethings never change.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby gugul » 09 Oct 2017 18:19

I think there is already an effort to use Do 228 for Regional connectivity scheme.... Don't know how far the efforts have moved further .... a bit dated news but posting some links...

http://www.indiastrategic.in/2016/12/13 ... pril-2017/
https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... nal-routes
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/17331/ ... ft_By_2017

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2017 20:35

Thanks Deejay for those SE inputs.

By the way, the Do-228 is in a weird state. HAL and TASL are both manufacturing it. TASL is also making large parts for the PC-12. I have flown in the PC-12. Mine was configured as a 4 seater (+ the potty seater). But I knew that the aircraft could be gutted and used for cargo very quickly. Pretty decent aircraft. Pressurized.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 09 Oct 2017 21:04

Yes PC 12 is a beauty. I think Textron is coming with a competition called Denali. And I know the Do 228 situation. I am also surprised by the lackadaisical sales effort of HAL. The civil market is not captive like military. They will have to market and sell.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Indranil » 09 Oct 2017 23:19

Unse na ho payega :D. They are very good at govt. deals. But milking a civil opportunity, kaun karega and kyun? Look at Dhruv!

But, to their credit, they have spent time and money to come up with two civil Do-228 prototypes. Let's see.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby KBDagha » 10 Oct 2017 09:39

Good update on new ammunition being developed by DRDO for our airforce.

http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2017/ ... power/amp/

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gaur » 10 Oct 2017 10:25

Private Lobbies Are Trying to Stop Indigenous Defence Production: H Mahadevan

Newsclick speaks to H Mahadevan, all India Working President of the AITUC and former General Secretary of the HAL Employees’ Association, Bangalore, on Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the LCA project and the motivated campaign to discredit Defence PSUs in order to facilitate privatisation.

https://newsclick.in/private-lobbies-are-trying-stop-indigenous-defence-production-h-mahadevan

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 11 Oct 2017 01:52

KBDagha wrote:Good update on new ammunition being developed by DRDO for our airforce.

http://www.delhidefencereview.com/2017/ ... power/amp/


Mostly rehash of our Missiles thread and all in one article.

Ask them about how fuzes are coming?


Were any fuzes developed for the HSLD series?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Vips » 12 Oct 2017 03:20

Red tape kills Mumbai pilot's dream to build India's first 19-seater aircraft.

An Indian pilot’s quest to fly an aircraft that he built on the rooftop of his house has become so entangled in red tape that after waiting for almost six years for approvals – even with the involvement of the Prime Minister’s Officethe frustrated aviator is preparing to head to the US with the project.

Amol Yadav, a pilot with a private airline who lives in Mumbai, thought he had everything going for his dream. He built a six-seater aircraft, which was featured in the government’s ‘Make in India’ programme, on the terrace of his Charkop home. He had the backing of the Maharashtra government, which, impressed with his efforts, offered him land and funds to build 19-seater planes. Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis had even apprised Prime Minister Narendra Modi about the project.

Amol Yadav, a pilot with a private airline who lives in Mumbai, thought he had everything going for his dream. He built a six-seater aircraft, which was featured in the government’s ‘Make in India’ programme, on the terrace of his Charkop home. He had the backing of the Maharashtra government, which, impressed with his efforts, offered him land and funds to build 19-seater planes. Chief Minister Devendra Fadnavis had even apprised Prime Minister Narendra Modi about the project.

Yadav is now on the verge of completing his 19-seater aircraft, which would be the first to be built indigenously. That’s something the National Aerospace Laboratories hasn’t been able to achieve even after working for several years and sinking in crores of rupees.

Yet with his prototype a few months away from completion, Yadav is exasperated. His six-seater plane hasn’t taken off, which means his 19-seater aircraft project will be held up. All his efforts have been throttled by regulatory hurdles.

While the Maharashtra government has tied up with Yadav and plans to allot him land, it firsts wants a demonstration of the six-seater in flight. However, the aviation regulator has consistently refused to register Yadav’s aircraft over the years, effectively denying him the ability to demonstrate it can fly. Directorate General of Civil Aviation, according to the Maharashtra government, has created road blocks for the project even after the PMO put in a word.

Not surprisingly, Yadav is disillusioned, especially in the context of the government’s attempts to make doing business in the country easier and the ‘Make in India’ programme, aimed at encouraging local manufacturing and increasing jobs.

“I felt very encouraged by ‘ease of doing business’ and the ‘Make in India’ initiative by Prime Minister Narendra Modi,” said Yadav. “However, I have realised that while the PM may be passionate about these initiatives, for the rest of the bureaucr ..

After he applied to register his six-seater plane under the experimental aircraft category in 2011, DGCA kept dilly-dallying. In 2014, the regulator scrapped the experimental aircraft clause, would have enabled amateurs to build planes, from the Civil Aviation Requirements (CAR), a set of regulations for the sector. The new rules allow only planes manufactured by companies to fly.

To resolve the issue, Fadnavis met Modi on April 14 in Nagpur and briefed him about Yadav’s aircraft. Following the discussions, the chief minister wrote to the PM about Yadav’s application pending with the DGCA. “He followed up regularly only to know that in July 2014, DGCA arbitrarily deleted this entire set of regulations making it impossible for anyone building experimental aircraft to apply for the same. It is not known why such a step was taken,” Fadnavis wrote.

Fadnavis met Modi again in New Delhi in the last week of April, following which Sanjeev Kumar Singla, the PM’s private secretary, was called in and asked to get involved with the DGCA. Still, the DGCA refused to budge. In fact, the regulator uploaded a new draft CAR on August 28 with provisions that would ensure that no one in the country could hope to build an experimental aircraft.

One revised provision stipulates the maximum weight of a new aircraft should not exceed 1,500 kg, just below the 1,600 kg Yadav mentioned in his application. This is unusual because in countries that encourage aircraft manufacturing such as the US, there are no weight restrictions. The DGCA also states in several places that aircraft should be built as per minimum standards, without specifying what those norms are.

ET sent Singla two detailed questionnaires regarding the status of Yadav’s application, which he forwarded to DGCA for a response. DGCA joint director general Lalit Gupta contacted this reporter on September 26, saying he was calling to respond to the questionnaires sent to Singla. ET tried to get in touch with JM Thakkar, public relations officer in the PMO, seeking Singla’s comments.

However, there has been no response. ET sent DGCA 17 questions related to the matter, including one on why it scrapped the provision for approval of experimental aircraft. The regulator did not answer most of the queries and said it was only following the rules of the International Civil Aviation Organization, a UN agency. ET checked the ICAO rules, which don’t ask any member country to deny registration to anyone building an aircraft.

DGCA told ET it is in touch with Yadav and other stakeholders to frame a new CAR. However, Yadav said that the DGCA, in discussions with him, reiterated that his aircraft would not be permitted to fly.

Now, Yadav has approached the US Federal Aviation Authority to register his aircraft there.

“I wanted my aircraft to have an India registration, but in our country innovation is considered to be a crime. So I am arranging for funds to take my aircraft to the US to get registered there. The whole process takes less than a month, compared to the six years that I have wasted here,” said Yadav.

I I am giving myself a month’s time if I am not able to get funds, then I invite the people of Mumbai to a unique funeral where I will take my six-seater aircraft to Bandra Kurla Complex, where it was first showcased during the ‘Make in India’ week, and then take a hammer and break it down because our country doesn’t like to encourage enterprise by the common man,” said Yadav.

An indigenous 19-seater plane such as the one that pilot Amol Yadav built, would be a boost for India’s aircraft manufacturing industry and help create jobs in the sector. Such aircraft would promote boost regional connectivity and airlines would find it viable to fly them to smaller airports instead of deploying 40- or 70- seater planes that are harder to fill for such destinations. More flights to smaller cities would in turn promote tourism in these areas. Such planes are also useful as private and business charter aircraft, which are used by wealthy individuals and companies.

The Obduracy of the bureaucrats is simply breath-taking. To set an example, all the bureaucrats who are involved in using direct and indirect methods to kill/sabotage this project should be crushed under a battle tank in a public square - Nothing less will do.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 12 Oct 2017 09:33

^^^ I can say this with confidence. DGCA is equally obdurate with one and all. They screw the foreign OEMs just as bad as Indian ones. The sheer ineptitude of DGCA is to be seen to be believed. They circulate CARs and implement / enforce these when the same CAR at two places says different things. When pointed out they hide behind ICAO regulations. At other times they run behind FAA. I have seen MoCA folks surrendering in front of DGCA.

They are due for a two week ICAO audit in the coming months. Already, getting work out of them is becoming a challenge since they are due for audit. They may not pass muster though they are confident that somehow they will.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 12 Oct 2017 10:12

So who runs the DGCA? What is it's org structure?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 12 Oct 2017 10:31

DG is an IAS officer nowadins. Earlier the DG used to be from internal cadre. They recently recruited some 350 new engineers as recruit. The required QRs failed to mention Aeronautics / Aeroengine background and all mechanical background guys got recruited. So now, they have sent them for a long training to get some aviation knowledge.

Some mid level staff is ex IAF, IN etc. Also all FOIs (Flight Ops Inspectors) are pilots many directly joining DGCA after leaving services.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby deejay » 12 Oct 2017 14:19

hnair wrote:Maybe they migrated to the new forum, but the people of BRF who used to track such things, seem oblivious that Quest Kodiak sales have something called a 10:1 input into "Quest Mission Team" :lol: They are just repaying their original investors, who helped start the company

The Spicejet deal adds 10 more planes as repayment


A further update on this. There will be a JV between Spice and Setouchi Holdings / Quest Aircraft. The JV will have majority holding of Spice Jet. The project is planned for launch in 06 months - 01 year. A total of 100 planes, but not all will be sea planes, will be operated under a new vertical to be formed. All ops will be under NSOP.

Quest Aircraft is owned by Setouchi Holdings of Japan which bought Quest Aircraft in 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quest_Aircraft

There will be no local manufacturing.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby A Sharma » 15 Oct 2017 18:44

DRDO Oct 2017 Newsletter

Indigenous Development of Trawl System by DRDO
Development Trials of Astra BVRAAM conducted Successfully
Successful Test of 3rd Generation Anti-Tank Guided Missile

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby hnair » 16 Oct 2017 08:08

deejay,please check your forum inbox

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Pratyush » 16 Oct 2017 09:12

The DGQA is acting this way even after intervention of one CM and the PMO.


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