India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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srai
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 29 Jun 2020 07:13

^^^
Don’t know why they are waiting till AMCA to do this? They can start right now with LCA Mk.1/A and MWF in the near future. Volume orders are required though. Can’t do it with token orders of 20 or 40 or 80 units.

jaysimha
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 29 Jun 2020 15:13

DIGITAL SEMINAR AND EXHIBITION ON OPPORTUNITIES FOR INDIGENISATION IN ARMY BASE WORKSHOPS
Mon, Jun 29 2020 To Wed, Jul 01 2020

https://sidm.in/events/details/digital- ... -workshops

jaysimha
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 29 Jun 2020 15:20

Past event,,, Posting for records.. may be later we can see the abstracts

https://kms.gov.in/ngqecon/ngqecon_2020.html
Image

Armuan
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Armuan » 30 Jun 2020 20:25

An example of how the US protects and retains defense industries and supports domestic production during COVID-19 crisis. Not sure how much lobbying was involved but I admire their prioritization to retain talent. Hoping for a future where we groom a sustainable and vibrant MIC.

Pentagon Awards $185 Million to Shipbuilders, Aerospace Manufacturers
https://www.thomasnet.com/insights/pent ... facturers/

"$55 million each would be allocated to W International and GE Aviation, with another $50 million headed to Austal USA and $25 million to Weber Metals. The funding was authorized under the Defense Production Act as part of a massive COVID-19 relief package enacted in March. “These actions will help to retain critical workforce capabilities throughout the disruption caused by COVID-19 and to restore some jobs lost because of the pandemic,” Pentagon spokesman Lt. Col. Mike Andrews said in a statement."

jaysimha
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jaysimha » 03 Jul 2020 22:30

CSSPL has collaborated with CAIR DRDO Bangalore for Technology Transfer (TOT) for manufacture of remotely operated wheeled mobile robot, “SEVAK ”, for logistics support in quarantine and isolation wards dealing with Covid-19 patients.
http://comintindia.com/

(Interested parties contact comint@comintindia.com)

http://comintindia.com/pdfs/SEVAK%20Ver6.0%20_Model%20A%20datasheet.pdf

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 07 Jul 2020 13:25

Recently found about him in social media, Initially i thought, it is a fake article (in past a few such scandals took place with with some fake guys encasing on APJ kalm sir's name on social media). But after digging a little more found its true.

Apologies if posted & discussed earlier in BRF.

Really we have gem of manpower available in desh, only thing is providing them the platform, funding & mentoring.....

From sleeping in a bus stand unable to pay hostel fees to an award-winning Drone scientist - Inspiring story of Pratap in achieving against all odds

Pratap, all of 22, has achieved what many only dream of. Pratap won the 1st prize at a Drone competition in Japan, and Prime Minister Narendra Modi has honoured him with an award and has asked DRDO to absorb him for his inventions in Drone technology.
 
Pratap's accomplishments have been talk of the town and have inspired many youngsters to persevere and achieve their dreams. However, Pratap's path to present success has not been easy and was full of thorns.
 
Humble beginnings
 
Pratap is a native of Netkal village in Malavalli Taluk of Mandya district in Karnataka. He comes from a family of farmers. His father Marimaddaiah was a farmer too and mother Savita, a housewife. Earning a few thousand rupees a month was just enough to feed the family. However, Pratap was enamoured by eagles, helicopters, and other flying objects since his childhood.
 
His inquisitiveness in flying objects created interest in science and electronics. He started to develop small robots and working models from waste materials while at school itself. He won several prizes in school with his science projects.
 
While studying in Pre-university, he acquainted himself with various websites such as Aviation, Space, Rolls Royce cars, Boeing 777, etc. by browsing from a cyber cafe near his house. Though he wished to pursue engineering, his family could not afford the fees, and hence he opted to study BSc in Physics at JSS College, Mysore.
 
Unable to pay hostel fees at the college, he was thrown out of the hostel. For a few days, he was forced to sleep at the Mysore Bus stand and had to wash his clothes in a public toilet. Such experiences did not deter Pratap, and he continued to learn computer languages such as C++, Java and Python on his own. He also learnt about creating Drones through eWaste, and this opened his path to success.
 
Path to success
 
While trying to create his first drone from eWaste, Pratap failed nearly 80 times. But he learnt a lot during his trials and was finally able to develop a drone that was good enough to participate in a contest. He took his drone to a Drone model competition at IIT Delhi. Pratap, who was literally in shabby clothes compared to the other competitors at IIT Delhi, focused on the competition instead. Here he won the 2nd prize after which the organisers urged him to participate in the world-renowned International Drone competition in Japan that was to be held November 27 to December 2, 2017.
 
Going to Japan wasn't a straight forward path. In order to be eligible, his thesis on the drone he was to build had to be approved by as academic Professor at a Chennai college. After gathering the necessary money, Pratap went to Chennai for the first time and with great difficulty was able to get the approval of the Professor. The next challenge was to find funds for his travel to Japan and the related arrangements. Hailing from a humble background, arranging Rs 60000 to go to Japan was a huge task.
 
Luckily, a philanthropist from Mysore sponsored his flight ticket, but he needed more for the entire trip. The rest of the money was arranged by selling his mother's Mangala Sutra. After going through all this, he managed to reach Tokyo in his maiden flight to Japan all alone. When Pratap landed there, he had only Rs 1400 in his pocket. He could not afford the famous Bullet Trains in Japan. He then decided to carry his luggage along with his drone, which together weighed around 360 Kgs in a regular train by paying the extra amount. Some distance he covered by walk to save money as even taxi/cabs were costly. His mother's Mangala Sutra finally enabled him to reach the destination where the competition was to take place.
 
He participated in the Drone competition where participants from 127 nations were present. Pratap showcased and flew his drone, which he called 'Eagle' and mesmerised the audience. However, after the competition, as the results were being announced, there was no mention of his name until the very last. As the top three names were to be announced, Pratap was dejected and started walking back, thinking that he had lost. The judges announced the third prize, then the second and finally the first prize was announced. "Please welcome Mr Pratap, Gold Medalist from India", said the judges and Pratap's joy knew no bounds. 

Pratap's Gold medal at the Drone competition saw Indian tricolour fly above that of USA and Japan. He was rewarded with $10000 as the prize money. His victory at the competition was the beginning of the accolades he was to receive. Coming to know of his struggle and accomplishments, Japanese Nobel laureate Hideki Shirakawa invited him to his home. It was an experience that Pratap cherishes very much. He was congratulated by MLA's and MP's of Karnataka and later by PM Modi who called and congratulated him.
 
In the subsequent days, Pratap participated in competitions in other countries. He won the 'Albert Einstein's Innovation Medal' at the 2018 International Exhibition in Germany. However, once when he was in France, he ran out of money and had no money left for the return flight to India. During his stay, his achievements were recognised by France and his photo had appeared in a local newspaper. The airport staff recognised him, and despite not knowing him in person, they gave him a special treat and booked a seat for him on a business class flight.
 
In service of Motherland
 
Achievements of Pratap have been recognised in several countries like Japan, Germany and France. In each of these countries and elsewhere, he has received offers from government agencies and companies which have offered him millions of rupees, houses and huge perks. But Pratap is very clear that he wishes to work for his Motherland.
 
Former President APJ Abdul Kalam has always inspired Pratap. He says that he grew watching and reading him. It is Kalam who inspired him to work for the nation, says Pratap. It has been reported that PM Modi has suggested that Pratap be absorbed by the DRDO to continue his work and further research in drone technology.
 
The drone developed by Pratap is a technological breakthrough in India. His drone, named 'Eagle', has the technology to detect people at the border instantly. It can be used to ascertain if they are intruders or anyone in danger. He is also working on drones that will benefit the farmers in planning for crops, soil quality, and other parameters. 


https://www.organiser.org/Encyc/2020/7/5/Inspiring-story-of-award-winning-Drone-scientist-Pratap-in-achieving-against-all-odds.html
Last edited by Mollick.R on 07 Jul 2020 13:36, edited 1 time in total.

Mollick.R
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 07 Jul 2020 13:35

Few more on the brilliant guy............//Apologies if posted & discussed earlier in BRF.

This 22-year-old ‘drone scientist’ from Mandya has developed over 600 drones

Read more at: https://yourstory.com/socialstory/2019/ ... 600-drones
This 22-year-old ‘drone scientist’ from Mandya has developed over 600 drones Pratap NM has been invited to over 87 countries to showcase his drones and has worked in over six major projects, including one for defence purposes.

Over the course of the next few years, Pratap built 600 drones all by himself. He has so far completed six major projects that includes Telegraphy in Border Security, Drones in Traffic Management, UAVs in rescuing humans and Auto piloted drones and Cryptography in Drone Networking. Pratap’s drones are saving the lives of tribals in Africa by helping deliver medical support in a short period of time.

Pratap has also been invited to over 87 countries to showcase his different kinds of drones. According to Deccan Herald, Pratap has been the recipient of the Albert Einstein Innovation Gold Medal in the International Drone Expo 2018 held in Hanover in Germany, another gold medal in the International Drone expo in Germany and many others. He was recently invited by IIT Bombay to deliver a lecture on drone applications in emergency situations.

“I use very little money and a lot of e-waste to make my drones. Whenever I win competitions, I am awarded money which I save for the future. And as far as e-waste goes, a lot of it is generated and I get it from electrical shops in Mysuru, Visakhapatnam, Mumbai and a few other cities. For example, if there is a mixer-grinder that is defunct, I can remove the motor and use it in my drone. Similarly, I make use of chips and resistors from broken televisions to build my drones. It doesn't matter what the prototype looks like. Proving the technical points of the drone is all that matters.”

Read more at:
https://yourstory.com/socialstory/2019/12/drone-scientist-karnataka-mandya-600-drones



Young Prathap Has Built Over 600 Drones From E-Waste, Saved Lives And Won Medals For India
Monit Khanna// Updated on Dec 30, 2019, 17:32 IST

He has also been asked to give lectures at IIT Bombay, and IISc to talk about the application of drone tech in a time-sensitive scenario. He is currently working on a project with India’s DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) for drone application in critical national projects.

https://www.indiatimes.com/technology/news/drone-scientist-this-22-year-old-guy-has-created-over-600-drones-from-scratch-using-e-waste-503300.html

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby arvin » 07 Jul 2020 14:01

^^Thanks for posting. Truly inspiring. Good to see hardware innovation for a change. Usually it is only app development.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby csaurabh » 07 Jul 2020 18:24

These articles scream of fake news and arrant nonsense. One particularly stupid idea seems to be using a mixer grinder motor to run a drone. Firstly the mixer grinder runs on AC power ( which isn't available on a drone ), and secondly drones use high rpm low weight BLDC motors which the mixer grinder won't have. Using components from e-waste or broken TVs is a similarly dumb idea. It can be done for some of the larger through hole components like capacitor but is virtually impossible for smd components including microcontroller chips. Using jugaad to turn e-waste into drone components makes for a good story, but is a very poor engineering strategy. There is a reason why e-waste is 'waste' after all. Drones contain brushless DC (BLDC) motors, BLDC motor drivers, flight controllers, RF communication gear, IMUs, specialized payloads like small cameras, etc. None of which can be found in e-waste.

I know many people in the drone industry (entrepreneurs and engineers ) and can assure you that it is challenging to even develop a single drone from scratch within a few years, let alone 600. This reminds me of the news about similar whiz kids claimed to be working for NASA and such like and later found to have invented tall tales and photoshopped images, same as Ankit fadia and his 'hacking' nonsense from 15 years ago. Disappointing to see BRF which is tech savvy to be so gullible.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Jul 2020 21:18

Have to agree several details seem off. Plus all the images shown of the gent and his drones seem to show commercial kit based type units. Not hand-made sort of items.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby basant » 07 Jul 2020 22:15

Karan M wrote:Have to agree several details seem off. Plus all the images shown of the gent and his drones seem to show commercial kit based type units. Not hand-made sort of items.

Of course! ACSL is a Japanese company, Autonomous Control Systems Laboratory Ltd. That's the drone he is with in the picture!

Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 08 Jul 2020 01:27

@ csaurabh consider me a party on your skepticism.
In fact , the first post on this subject & very first line of that post itself I have mentioned the same point

Recently found about him in social media, Initially i thought, it is a fake article (in past a few such scandals took place with with some fake guys encasing on APJ kalm sir's name on social media). But after digging a little more found its true.


Boom is fact checker website, Today evening around 6 pm this article was posted on on their website.

A viral message doing the rounds of social media claims that a 21-year-old drone scientist called Prathap has been appointed as a scientist for the Defence Research and Development Organisation by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. BOOM spoke to Prathap, who denied that he was offered a job by the prime minister as a DRDO scientist. Furthermore, Prathap does not have a Master's degree yet, which is a minimum requirement to obtain an entry level job as a scientist at the DRDO. Twitter user Amit Singh Rajawat (@satya_AmitSingh) shared an image of Prathap in a thread with a caption saying, "Interesting story of DRDO Scientist appointed by PM Narendra Modi. He is Pratap aged 21 years. He travels 28 days in a month to foreign countries.France has invited him to join their Organisations for which he will be provided with monthly salary of Rs 16 Lakhs, 5 BHK house, and Car worth 2.5Cr.But he simply declined. PM Modi has honored him with suitable award and has asked DRDO to absorb him." The rest of the thread provided details about the hardships faced by Prathap, and his inspirational journey to becoming a scientist. Click here to view the entire thread.

Fact Check We did a Google search with keywords like "pratap drdo scientist", and came across an article by the Deccan Herald, which spoke of a 22-year drone scientist from a village called Mandya in Karnataka, who provided his drones to the National Disaster Response Force for rescue operations during the floods in Karnataka in August last year. The article carried a picture of the same person whose image is currently going viral.

BOOM reached out to Prathap who claimed that while most of the content of the thread was true, the claim around DRDO absorbing him was not. "I just got a call from New Delhi to meet some people for a project but I am not sure what it is about. Officially I think the prime minister cannot appoint anybody, and I did not get any appointment from him at the DRDO," he said. Prathap also claimed that the rest of the message was true. "I did get an offer from France with the salary and perks as mentioned in the message, but I refused as I wanted to set up a lab in Bengaluru," he said.

BOOM could not independently verify these claims. Prathap currently works for a Bengaluru-based startup called Aerowhale Space and Tech. Furthermore, according to Indian government's Recruitment and Assessment Center, to be recruited into the organisation as a scientist at the entry-level, once must have a First Class Master's degree in Science Subjects, Mathematics or Psychology or First Class Degree in Engineering or Technology or Metallurgy from a recognized University or Equivalent.

Prathap, however, has not yet attained his Master's degree, which he confirmed to us over a phone call. Would he be interested in working for the DRDO once he has the required qualifications? "Yes, definitely," he says. BOOM reached out to DRDO for a comment, and the article will be updated upon getting a response.

Full article here
https://www.boomlive.in/fake-news/did-pm-modi-appoint-drone-wiz-prathap-as-a-drdo-scientist-8778?infinitescroll=1

Take it, as per your own judgement and if you discover any further information, do share it here.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby milindc » 08 Jul 2020 02:19

with monthly salary of Rs 16 Lakhs, 5 BHK house, and Car worth 2.5Cr.


This crap was forwarded last week on various WhatsApp groups. Just reading that one sentence about his offer in France and 5 BHK house made the whole post suspicious. Did research on Google, found many holes in his proclamations. He visits Fair & Expos and claims he won Gold Medals. No Gold Medals were awarded in those fairs. One article claimed, he won 'Albert Einstein Gold Medal in Hanover expo', and obviously that is also fake.

Like others stated earlier, I think we shouldn't be too gullible. Of course the Indian media publishes this crap without any research or due diligence leading to more frenzy around this person. Not one picture of him is with a non-commercial drone (out of 600 he built). And 600, not 631 or 594.. precisely 600 drones.

ramana
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 08 Jul 2020 02:47

Guys N^3 wrote a book on low speed Aerodynamics and has guided many PhDs in that area.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby csaurabh » 08 Jul 2020 08:53

Apologies, I did not read the first post. Now I went back and read many other posts. They are hilarious. The dude's imagination is very fertile, and includes saving starving Africans from snakebites!

Not to blame you but you should use some common sense. Manufacturing 600 drones would make his company one of the largest in India, with a big factory and lots of employees. Such a massive operation would be pretty easy to track down , he cannot be some unknown person.

I think this raises a bigger question on credibility of Indian news/media organizations and if they are just this easy to fool. Even the fact checker website raises doubts on the question of whether DRDO hired him or not, rather than on the very dubious technology of making drones out of e-waste.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby JayS » 08 Jul 2020 12:00

Wheever I read such fantastic news mynfirst reaction is "its fake", because of n number of such fake stories in the past.

SHQ showed me this news a couple of days back and I told her its probably fake just based on the thing that Modi recommended him to DRDO or something like that. Last year similar news came on some TV channels where some guy in UP claimed to have made ICBM in his house. That news item was such a commedy show. Felt bad for her mother though. He probably was chuna lagaofying his poor uneducated mother. The news channels wanted DRDO to send a team to evaluate his missile when that guy had no idea what he was talking.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby amar_p » 08 Jul 2020 14:02

Reminds me of the petrol from plastic lady a few years ago...

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Jul 2020 16:52

Ok guys lets move on - i think the consensus is, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck..

Any news on DRDO programs or other R&D ones?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby dinesha » 10 Jul 2020 20:25

We are planning to change the game, close to an agreement between two governments to co-create a new jet engine, India will get the IP. "The vision of Rolls Royce for India.": @donaghey_louise
, Senior Vice President, India, and South East Asia, @RollsRoyce
#BeTheRevival #IGW2020

https://twitter.com/IndiaIncorp/status/ ... 7302621184

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby bharathp » 11 Jul 2020 02:55

dinesha wrote:
We are planning to change the game, close to an agreement between two governments to co-create a new jet engine, India will get the IP. "The vision of Rolls Royce for India.": @donaghey_louise
, Senior Vice President, India, and South East Asia, @RollsRoyce
#BeTheRevival #IGW2020

https://twitter.com/IndiaIncorp/status/ ... 7302621184

if this happens it will be gold.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Mollick.R » 11 Jul 2020 13:06

A month old news, but still posting it for records.............

Two Indian firms in WEF list of tech pioneers for 2020
PTI|Last Updated: Jun 16, 2020, 04.26 PM IST

Two Indian firms - ZestMoney and Stellapps - figure in a new list of Tech Pioneers released on Tuesday by the World Economic Forum (WEF) which described these 100 entities as future headline-makers addressing global issues with cutting-edge technology. From artificial intelligence (AI) to carbon capture, these companies are using innovations to protect the climate, improve healthcare and much more, helping us to reset society and build towards a better future, the WEF said.
.
.
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About India's ZestMoney, the WEF said the company is using its technology to transform the financial services industry, offering affordable credit to those who are unable to access this through traditional finance paths. The company uses AI-based digital lending platform for disbursing affordable credit.

Stellapps, another Indian firm in the list, is a data-led, internet of things-based, farm-to-consumer dairy supply chain digitisation service provider.


Full Article Here//The Economic Times Link
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/company/corporate-trends/two-indian-firms-in-wef-list-of-tech-pioneers-for-2020/articleshow/76404207.cms

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby dinesh_kimar » 11 Jul 2020 16:05

dinesha wrote:
We are planning to change the game, close to an agreement between two governments to co-create a new jet engine, India will get the IP.


We should start a new thread on the number of times India has been offered engine technology, and relaxed her efforts.

Starting with RD-9 from Soviet Union in 1961 for the Marut, the Orpheus for the Gnat, the Viper instead of HJE 2500 for Kiran, the Adour, deep technology Al-31 FP, Snecma,Kaveri, etc.

ISRO did not relax from developing the basic Cryogenic engine, even though new "gas generator cycle" was available.

In a major do or die endeavour, they succeeded in 2014.

The original 7 Russian engines had been whittled down to the last one.

Why do some organisations like the Indian Army and ISRO succeed with their backs to the wall, while others like OFB and DRDO fail miserably ?

Also, what's the meaning of " India will get the IP ? "

How is it different from "deep" transfer of technology, or
"Entire manufacturing will be done in India?"

Added later: why did GTRE say that Kaveri engine work stopped because 'world has moved on, parameters have changed , client now wants a 98-103 KN engine?'

Did ISRO , which started work on Cryo engine in 1994 and succeeded only in 2014, say ' client now wants Gas Generator Cycle, parameters changed' ?

In earlier posts, I mentioned how ISRO chief K.Radhakrishnan brought back old retired buddas to ensure success of the Cryo engine. He insisted that Cryo will fly, immediately after their failure in 2010, when they had only one Russian engine left, at their lowest ebb.

What, pray, has tied the hands of DRDO chiefs and Raksha Mantra , to prevent coordination and regular monitoring of this project ?

In UP, Yogi Adityanath had given the DIG 1 weeks time to capture Dubey..He was monitoring the situation daily. This is the determination to complete something which is solely lacking in DRDO.

The blame of Kaveri is solely on DRDO chiefs Christopher and Satish Reddy, who were supposed to integrate/ fly it on a fighter plane, after the flight trials were successful in Gromov on IL-76 test bed, instead of coming up with this parameter changed nonsense.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby darshhan » 14 Jul 2020 16:52

Seeing the MoD and military procurement officials' unending appetites for imports, I feel many important private sector firms
such as Kalyani Strategic systems, L&T etc which were supposed to provide indigenous capabilities, will start shutting shop in the coming years or at the very least draw down their operations substantially.

Indian military with some exceptions is simply not interested in Indigenization. Even in todays environment with threat of a 2 front war being a clear and present danger, they are unable to shun imports. Most of the items they are importing citing emergency measures(small arms, ammo, drones etc) can be procured locally by private players either in standalone mode or through JV mode. The current RM is not a patch on Manohar Parrikar especially when it comes to indigenization. Even for PMO this is way down the priority list.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 14 Jul 2020 17:01

dinesh_kimar wrote:
dinesha wrote:


Why do some organisations like the Indian Army and ISRO succeed with their backs to the wall, while others like OFB and DRDO fail miserably ?


Can you please stop making these incorrect comparisons? The ISRO has very little common in comparison with the situation the DRDO faces and the number of successful products DRDO has developed despite its challenges is far more than ISRO has. ISRO is literally its own customer.

As regards delivering with a back to the wall, DRDO has developed over 120 production lines for items during this CV crisis apart from ventilator designs licensed to SkanRay and now made at BEL, ranging from the essential everyday items to the most complex. What did ISRO do or volunteer? Was it DRDO's responsibility to make all these products? Where were the much vaunted vendors who claim better R&D capability?

Its quite clear that you are not aware of the depth of capabilities the DRDO has, or the products they have delivered. To some extent the organizations lack of publicity regarding its own products, and the vested coverage of their efforts is responsible. But then you can take a look sometime at the orders placed on local defense industry. Around 80% of the truly local items and even more, are basically DRDO TOT. Literally everything India makes, from sensors, to ammunition, to platforms, to weapons is of DRDO origin if it is not imported. The pure-play OFB products are negligible. The BEL/ECIL/Brahmos/Pvt sector combine heavily depend on DRDO to develop products along with them.

As of 2018, the DRDO made equipment developed at a fraction of the cost of their worldwide peers, and being inducted, stood at Rs 1.8 Lakh crore.. This is with multiple orders for items successfully developed yet to be placed due to a funds crunch, including Tejas, missiles, sensors. With those orders, the above will go up by multiples.

In UP, Yogi Adityanath had given the DIG 1 weeks time to capture Dubey..He was monitoring the situation daily. This is the determination to complete something which is solely lacking in DRDO.


The question may equally be asked as to what kind of system allows a guy like Dubey to thrive and kill 8 cops and who knows how many before that. As regards the determination to complete stuff, it takes far more determination to exist and persist against the import lobby and develop something like a tank or a weapon. Besides, lets not even get into comparing setting folks after a two bit political thug as versus developing something complex from scratch and taking it to production for a customer who expects world-class gear.

The blame of Kaveri is solely on DRDO chiefs Christopher and Satish Reddy, who were supposed to integrate/ fly it on a fighter plane, after the flight trials were successful in Gromov on IL-76 test bed, instead of coming up with this parameter changed nonsense.


I suggest you spend more time in understanding jet engines and expenses involved rather than making these claims. There is an entire thread on the forum. Read through it, and try to understand why jet engines are incredibly hard to master and why a multi-use engine is fundamentally different from a few-times use engine used for a rocket, and we didn't get any TOT or assistance either for the same.

No further replies in this thread please till you do some research.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Jarita » 14 Jul 2020 20:00

This is great twitter thread on how India's indigenous development has been strangled by the import lobby which exists in both the babu community as well as some of the armed forces (we can see residue of that with the likes of Phhoookla and such). I see that the indigen thread is dead hence posting here.
https://twitter.com/drukkk/status/1281867978733023232

Story of Prahaar Battlefield Missile developed by DRDO. Proved in 2011. Army Orders ZERO even after 10 years

Prahaar missile length of 7.3 metres , diameter of 0.42 metres and weight 1280kg. Warhead of 200 kg. Range over 150 kilometres.


Story starts with Govt permission to start developing Ballistic Missile Defence System in 1990s.

Two interceptor SAM missiles were developed for BMD systems AAD & PAD/PDV

AAD was publically shown in 2007 as fully developed missile

AAD Became the basis of Prahaar. The missile was already fully developed & was simplified for its use as Prahaar.

Seeker was removed & warhead size was increased. Voila we have fully developed Prahhar, successfully tested in 2011

Battlefield missiles are produced, exported & used by many nations like

USA ATACMS
Russia Tochka
ISRAEL Lora etc
China SY400

China has its own WS32 & SY400 equivalents which is not only deployed on Border with PLA But also exported to numerous nations

So What does Our Indian Army do? looking at importance of inductiong equivalent indigenous systems?

It refuses & asks for Improvements. So Prahaar becomes Pragati with range increase to 170km+

It strongly seems Army is delaying all surface to surface missile production & induction

1. Guided Pinaka-2 range 90km

2 Prahhar Guided missile Range 150km

3. Pralaay Guided missile Range 400-800km

So we are left with only few Pinaka Unguided Rockets 40-60km range only


Miltary has long history of moving the Goal posts to spite indigenous developments. Let me give you extract from CAG report for Air Defence Guns

Remember A famous German Co. Was trying to supply Air Defence Gun, in those days. (Subsequently black listed)

Brahmos is 2000% or 20x more costly than Prahaar. Brahmos is a very costly system & hence can be used for important targets & not routine battlefied support.

In any case, as I said Army loves imports & Brahmos is imported


Please read through his tweets.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Jarita » 14 Jul 2020 20:03

darshhan wrote:Seeing the MoD and military procurement officials' unending appetites for imports, I feel many important private sector firms
such as Kalyani Strategic systems, L&T etc which were supposed to provide indigenous capabilities, will start shutting shop in the coming years or at the very least draw down their operations substantially.

Indian military with some exceptions is simply not interested in Indigenization. Even in todays environment with threat of a 2 front war being a clear and present danger, they are unable to shun imports. Most of the items they are importing citing emergency measures(small arms, ammo, drones etc) can be procured locally by private players either in standalone mode or through JV mode. The current RM is not a patch on Manohar Parrikar especially when it comes to indigenization. Even for PMO this is way down the priority list.


Its evident that this is not a priority for the RM but unfortunately the Army and Babu's also have a lot of say. The way it goes is that approvals get snail level slow when it comes to product that is not a high preference for someone in the supply chain - be it perception or rewards. That is how it is killed. Then suddenly, someone does a gap assessment and procurement is made at a premium.

At the very least the procurement chain needs to be cleaned up and the way to do it is to track beneficiaries and benefits.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby kvraghav » 14 Jul 2020 20:18

We should also remember that the ministers are Dumb when it comes to procurement and other technical aspects barring some like Manohar Sir. A first time minister is only worried about the percentage received on the total money spent. He also know how to channel the money back to either party/personal gains. It is the army procurement which raises the request and MoD approves the request based on many factors including the overall percentage receivable. MoD and Ministers care Zilch from where the equipment comes as long as the percentage is there.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby abhik » 14 Jul 2020 20:45

The doubling "emergency" purchase limit (all of it going to imports of course), instead of giving a "free hand" to the armed forces is just exposing that the RM and political leadership don't have the chops to actually fix the underlying issues ailing out MIC and procurement system. Some of the items reportedly on the list are more on the ridiculous side, e.g. RQ-11 portable drone (there are probably half a dozen Indian M/SMEs who can supply products like this), and even artic tents (there is a global shopping hunt for this now).

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby csaurabh » 14 Jul 2020 21:09

darshhan wrote:Seeing the MoD and military procurement officials' unending appetites for imports, I feel many important private sector firms
such as Kalyani Strategic systems, L&T etc which were supposed to provide indigenous capabilities, will start shutting shop in the coming years or at the very least draw down their operations substantially.

Indian military with some exceptions is simply not interested in Indigenization. Even in todays environment with threat of a 2 front war being a clear and present danger, they are unable to shun imports. Most of the items they are importing citing emergency measures(small arms, ammo, drones etc) can be procured locally by private players either in standalone mode or through JV mode. The current RM is not a patch on Manohar Parrikar especially when it comes to indigenization. Even for PMO this is way down the priority list.


I feel your pain. Armed forces/MOD/Babus have really done a number on individuals and organizations who struggled to create an indigenous defence industry during the last 5 years. All the people that I know who won grants for development either got a paltry sum or even none at all. There was a good deal of effort put on, organizing conferences at IIT and such like and it all comes to zilch. I think my lucky stars that myself and my company did not get tangled up in this mess and did not waste much money in pursuing it. I once aspired to be a defense entrepreneur and I no longer do.

The fact is that import lobby is insanely powerful and the lure of the commissions and foreign trips and gravy train is just too much. If even large companies like Kalyani and L&T as well as DRDO/HAL have trouble getting contracts, what hope is there for small businessmen and entrepreneurs.
It's just really depressing.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srin » 14 Jul 2020 21:56

The Galwan crisis has happened at the absolutely worst possible time for us - just when we had declared "atma nirbharta" with an economy in crisis, the GOI has been forced to open purse strings due to the border issue.
The problem with MoD is not the budget. It is the procurement process and lack of decisiveness and direction. Still waiting for Tejas MK1A orders, LCH orders.
This is a stark reminder for all those of us who have been asking for more defence budget. What it has shown is that as the budget increases, the imports will increase.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 15 Jul 2020 05:46

Tejas contract will be before December.
Already told so dont bring it time and again.

20 lakh crores economic revival package has been released.

MoD procurement is getting laser focus as many crap is showing up.

Example the 158K helmets that are good for nothing because of wrong requirement.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby csaurabh » 15 Jul 2020 10:34

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... e-decades/

Defence procurement : Nothing has changed in the last three decades

Nothing much seems to have changed in the last three decades in defence procurement. I reproduce below a post that I had written here five years ago ( February 21 , 2015, which is broadly a repetition of what I had written even during UPA Two. It shows we fiddled while China built its economy and war machine.

Stem the rot in defence procurement for Make-in-India to happen

Napoleon Bonaparte, military leader and former Emperor of France, said, “The army marches on its stomach.” It was metaphoric. Troops can win wars if they are well stocked with not just food but guns, ammunition, clothing and more. While our soldiers are one of the finest in the world, it is the lack of resources that has been their bane ever since the Chinese war that exposed them to their vulnerability against an army vastly superior in armament and logistics. Napoleon also said that it is not canons alone but lightening speed that helps armies win wars. It is key not only at the level of army commanders on the battlefield, but also as critical at the political leadership level that can be fatal for troops and compromise sovereignty of the country if the leadership dithers and prevaricates.

In the days of emperors, the army came directly under their command. And so, in matters of deciding on equipping their armies or building forts, their actions were as prompt as their thoughts. They knew intuitively that delay may cost them their kingdom. Our defence ministers, at worst, may have a change of portfolio. It was said of Chengiz Khan that he shortened a straight line to reach his objective. Now we all agree that we don’t want a dictator ruling us. The worst democracy is preferred to the best monarchy. So, here is a dilemma: How do we get democratically-elected leaders to act with speed and integrity?

It is nine months since Narendra Modi took over as the Prime Minister. Manohar Parikkar with good credentials, a former Chief Minister from an IIT background has assumed charge as Defence Minister just three months ago. He is yet get his feet wet and get a grip of his portfolio. And so, things have not still changed much on the ground. On the contrary almost the whole world of defence manufacturers are frustrated and confused. Modi’s vision ‘to make in India’, especially defence equipment is laudable. Phil Shaw head of Lockheed Martin India,the world’s biggest defence aerospace industry, speaking at the Airshow in Bangalore said, -” Lockheed has completed more than 40 billion dollars worth of programmes globally, without problems, but is struggling in India and is finding it a challenge.” Dealing with Indian defence is beset with horrendous bureaucratic delays and lack of clarity in policies. He was diplomatic and did not mention the cancer of corruption.

Take an example: the Indian Army put out a tender for advanced light helicopters 14 years ago. The tender itself was late by 25 years! The current fleet of Chetak helicopters is more than 50 years old in technology and manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics under licence from French company Eurocopters now renamed Airbus Helicopters. Eurocopters have stopped production of this version decades ago. The defence ministry has yet to award the contract. Even a layman can grasp that if a contract is delayed beyond two or three years, then a host of issues like obsolescence, expiry of quotes, lack of continuity due to change of people dealing with the contract, change of government, etc, will crop up, rendering the whole exercise futile. And an award never gets finalised. Many tenders have been awarded after twenty years delay in selection, in the Airforce and Navy. In fact, people from Airbus, Boeing, Rolls-Royce and others will tell you that it just takes two to three years to get an award of a defence contract in countries like Brazil, Turkey or South Africa. Never more. Even those countries are not free of vested interests and the proverbial middlemen. Manohar Parikkar has admitted candidly at the Defence air show in Yelahanka Airforce Base Bangalore yesterday – “I agree that current procedures are very complex. .. There has to be a definite time frame ..” It was an understatement.

The ongoing Helicopter tender after extensive field trials , which reached final stages of bidding was scrapped in favour of the new FDI policy of 49 percent in Defence sector rolled out in a hurry by Arun Jaitley in the last budget, to give a push to ‘Make In India’, the new mantra. At 49 per cent equity no foreign defence manufacturer is showing interest to manufacture in India and part with its technology, without management control. The contract to supply the above 300 odd helicopters under offset policy was awarded three years ago to Airbus Helicopters. Allegations of corruption and misdemeanours derailed the award. And the Indian Army is back to square one, woefully strapped in its requirements to meet its operational needs.

Gen VK Singh, the former Army Chief and minister of state in the present government wrote a blunt letter to the then Defence Minister AK Antony,”The Indian Army is alarmingly ill-equipped.” Many chiefs earlier from all three services have echoed this, which has fallen on deaf years on successive governments. That the cause of inordinate delay has been due to vested interests: from ignorant or rapacious politicians to bureaucrats, and retired Generals to arms dealers, conniving to divide the spoils from the kickbacks of the deal is not in doubt. It is an open secret.

Competing bidders scuttle the deal when they discover they are unlikely to win it. An arms dealer is like any salesman. He doesn’t care which weapon you buy as long as he pockets his commission. But as the General said, it is a different matter if those responsible for awarding the contract compromise with the middlemen and recommend substandard equipment, then he has committed ‘high treason’.

A K Antony though incorruptible and was referred to as ‘Saint Antony’ was also generally perceived to be notoriously indecisive and lacking in dynamism. There’s credence to both perceptions. Now we have a new dispensation led by Modi who in complete contrast, is perceived as decisive, bold, hawkish and desires a militarily very strong India – which helps in rebooting the defense forces. But we are speaking of correcting the system rather than individual traits. Can we afford an honest leader who is indecisive or a corrupt one who decides in haste ?

We need urgently a well thought out and a clear defence procurement policy keeping in mind the strategic vision and interests of India and that is well informed and dictated by the needs of the three services, in the next three to six months, that can be reviewed once in three years.

Let us look at the anomalies. Defence procurement was not preferred from Indian private sector. Being a holy cow, procurement was only from moribund government ordnance factories or government public sectors like HAL which are in a time warp. But it is alright to buy from foreign private companies! Bofors, Jaguar, Boeing, Mirage, Dassault and Eurofighter, Rafael, Lockheed Martin are all private companies, with the result Indian private sector does not have the technology and depth of manufacturing combined with research capabilities to meet India’s immediate defence needs. Therefore the FDI policy needs to be quickly tweaked to equip our forces in a time bound manner and in the interim, a quick and thorough overhaul of the import and offset policy has to be undertaken till the Indian private sector becomes capable and globally competitive to attract investments.

The defence procurement budget and its needs must be decided by a committee of people with specialised knowledge from all three services including members from foreign service and intelligence like RAW, reputed defence analysts etc, so that all aspects are considered, especially strategic, in view of rapidly changing technology and geopolitical interests.

May be a separate directorate for procurement is created with stringent qualifications and minimum tenure so that we don’t have IAS officers, howsoever brilliant (and most are), who have spent all their life in Jharkhand or Uttar Pradesh or Kerala in departments of animal husbandry or social welfare , or commercial taxes, getting postings to defence ministry through networking, and influence and presiding over purchase of crucial high-technology weapon systems.

Policies must be put in place that ensures contracts are awarded within three years after all formalities including completion of field trials. And delays must be investigated and accountability established, both within the forces and the ministry, and guilty punished.

It is well known that while ‘something is rotten’ in the civilian set up of the defence ministry, all is not well within the three forces either. The arms dealers worm their way through retired Generals to senior officers who are in charge of technical evaluation and user trials, to get better rating for their own arms and fudge those of their competitors. And they use all means: gifts, Swiss accounts and honey traps. Corruption in defence procurement should be treated as treason and Indian Penal Code should be suitably amended.

We have no dearth of extremely capable, honest and eminent people who can be picked up, not only to formulate a defence procurement policy and enact a robust framework to plug loopholes but also knowledgeable men to fill the specialised posts for procurement on a revolving basis. May be a separate directorate for procurement is created with stringent qualifications and minimum tenures.

Systemic changes can be brought about if there’s a political will and urgency. Political leadership need not necessarily have expertise in weapons or fighter jets to be able to lead the forces in deciding what armament to acquire, but we can ill-afford lame-duck ministers who are indecisive and out of depth for the portfolio they hold who are easily manipulated by the bureaucracy or influenced by arms lobbies. In times of crisis, we need political leaders who can galvanise the defence forces and lead from the front. And the buck ultimately stops with the Prime Minister. He must clean up the Augean stables through his defence minister, who has a reputation for honesty and capability, and overhaul the system and strengthen the country’s defence forces. Time is running out.”

Now after the Chinese incursions in Ladakh and their continuing overbearing and bullying tactics along the LAC and their increasing hegemonic designs becoming clear and brazen by the day, we must remember the famous lines – “ The woods are lovely dark and deep but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep , before I sleep. ”

These were reported to be the hand written lines of Robert Frost , by Jawaharlal Nehru found on his writing desk the night before he died , a broken man , who felt betrayed by the Chinese when they invaded and overran our unprepared, ill equipped troops in 1962.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby pankajs » 15 Jul 2020 17:08

https://twitter.com/writetake/status/12 ... 8076989440
Anantha Krishnan M @writetake

#GoodNews from from #MahindraDefence. The ‘Mine Resistant Ambush Protected’ #MRAP specialty vehicles with interrogation arms to lift road side IEDs. These #MRAPs will be deployed in @UN Peacekeeping Ops. A home-grown product already on the export route.
Image
Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby basant » 16 Jul 2020 14:58

Like we track here the developments of LCA, wouldn't it be a good idea to do the same for desi products progress of desi products? Like dates for RFI/RFP, DCC approvals, CCS approval, etc? It would help us estimate typical progress towards atmanirbharta.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby csaurabh » 16 Jul 2020 16:49

basant wrote:Like we track here the developments of LCA, wouldn't it be a good idea to do the same for desi products progress of desi products? Like dates for RFI/RFP, DCC approvals, CCS approval, etc? It would help us estimate typical progress towards atmanirbharta.


There is NO progress towards atma-nirbharta.
Import lobby has sabotaged everything.
One well reputed company I know was awarded a grant to develop an indigenous replacement for Carl Gustav Rocket launcher.
After a ton of red tape compliances they were awarded 10% of the promised grant for the first installment. Second installment is nowhere in sight. Project crawls at snails pace, Armed forces are clearly totally uninterested and just keeps up a charade.
This is not the exception, it is the norm.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 16 Jul 2020 17:37

We are badly missing the presence of Parrikar sahab.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gyan » 16 Jul 2020 21:22

csaurabh wrote:
basant wrote:Like we track here the developments of LCA, wouldn't it be a good idea to do the same for desi products progress of desi products? Like dates for RFI/RFP, DCC approvals, CCS approval, etc? It would help us estimate typical progress towards atmanirbharta.


There is NO progress towards atma-nirbharta.
Import lobby has sabotaged everything.
One well reputed company I know was awarded a grant to develop an indigenous replacement for Carl Gustav Rocket launcher.
After a ton of red tape compliances they were awarded 10% of the promised grant for the first installment. Second installment is nowhere in sight. Project crawls at snails pace, Armed forces are clearly totally uninterested and just keeps up a charade.
This is not the exception, it is the norm.


If you add up imports of Carl Gustaf & its ammo in last 20 years, its a massive amount.

Just like high altitude winter clothing imports.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 17 Jul 2020 02:40

There is pdf "History of DRDO" from 1958 to 1982: by Dr. Ramdas Shenoy.

He was tasked by Dr. Kalam to write the history and did a very good job.

He has an appendix that covers the later years too.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby MeshaVishwas » 18 Jul 2020 02:49

A brief but comprehensive overview of DRDO designs:
https://aeroindia2019-drdo-ada.com/2018 ... e-product/

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Manish_Sharma » 18 Jul 2020 05:10

csaurabh wrote:There is NO progress towards atma-nirbharta.
Import lobby has sabotaged everything.
One well reputed company I know was awarded a grant to develop an indigenous replacement for Carl Gustav Rocket launcher.
After a ton of red tape compliances they were awarded 10% of the promised grant for the first installment. Second installment is nowhere in sight. Project crawls at snails pace, Armed forces are clearly totally uninterested and just keeps up a charade.
This is not the exception, it is the norm.


Could you name the company & name of product so I can Tweet to pmo et al and make them aware.


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