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India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Karan M
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 17:25

This is how this policy protects OFB. Deal for 100000 carbines? Say 4 preferred partners. Best gets the deal, decides to work with any other pvt firm to do it. But not necessarily OFB, if IA timelines are strict. Only 2 firms? Even if the private firm wins, MOD will lean on it to work with OFB, as has happened repeatedly in the past. So irrespective of whether a DPSU wins a mega deal or not, it gets good pickings. In the past, St Antony even took work done by L&T and gave it to BEML. If there us no competition, none of these firms will change, especially OFB and the shipyards which are the worst of the lot.
Right now, you want optics- options are between BEL, Tata, Tonbo, and a few others. This idiotic policy will ensure preference for one pvt firm and the size cap means Tonbo, which exports far more than BEL ever did in the segment, can never swing deals with the same leverage in the Indian market.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Kashi » 13 May 2017 17:38

How and Why did Parrikar and Jaitley approve this policy? Surely they would not be unaware of the pitfalls..

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 17:53

Parrikar made many decisions with the proviso he would fix it later. But then off he went to Goa. Other gent, less said the better. He is a temporary DM.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 17:54

Also of course they were aware of the pitfalls. Even IA spoke up to protect their MSME suppliers. But clearly OFB et al lobbying has done the trick.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Kashi » 13 May 2017 17:57

I think there should be more to it than that. I wonder if there were any quid pro quo involving OFB, MoD and Armed forces to achieve gains elsewhere.

Either way, it's baffling to say the least.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 18:03

The biggest concern is how this stymies both Large and small private firms. I literally whooped with joy as L&T and Tata steadily worked with DRDO to be alternatives to the license assemble DPSU complex. Now they will be pigeonholed into one area each. Astra and Datapatterns are doing great in electronics. Neither is big enough to be a preferred partner. So dome fatcat firm can sit at the top, do nothing and eat off the efforts of these two firms who will be locked out of becoming a BEL in their own right. Alpha is making TISAS, EW pods, Su-30 fuselage assemblies. What should it aim for? These babus have taken the agility of the Indian pvt sector and asked ig to mimic the lumbering zombie the OFB types are, ostensibly specialized but in reality, limited and least bothered about any improvements.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 18:04

Kashi wrote:I think there should be more to it than that. I wonder if there were any quid pro quo involving OFB, MoD and Armed forces to achieve gains elsewhere.

Either way, it's baffling to say the least.



After seeing the sheer dysfunction of pur establishment for decades, i would not hold out for any hopes of chunkian explanations. We will be disappointed. They are like this onlee. But this should show how even one DM could not change things. It needs constant attention.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby shiv » 13 May 2017 18:40

Karan M wrote:Sorry thats not how it is, it will stymie development till any policy change comes and till then the capex invested goes idle. L&T today is contributing to subs, radars, arty and thanks to this stupid policy, it may have to pick and choose rather than focusing on all round excellence. This decision is typical commie style decision making, whereas need of the hour is to have our own IAI or LG or Boeing which can make fighters, missiles and even invest in land systems. Like Wipro, you xan only work on SAP services. Infosys, CRM. Some other firm some other IT vity. What would have happened to Bangalore then? Or the Indian industry? Let the firms decide on theur capabilities and invest. Would we be anywhere if only Vodafone and BSNL could do cell phones and the rest were not preferred partners? Why make such a stupid policy to begin with? It just shows the utter lack of common sense in babucracy. Modi has to herd cats with this lot.

Same for Tata Power SED. They make multiple systems. They will be curtailed now. BTW, if the money is divided among 2-3 companies is exactly how both Akash (BEL, BDL with subsystems from multiple groups) and Pinaka (Tata, L&T) have bern successfully run. I cannot begin to express how stupid and misguided this policy decision was. Its been driven purely by MOD babucracy conservatism to avoid allegations of favoritism and so they dont gave to get off their @sses and certify capability (for which they know they are unsuited and dont want to give up.their power either) and DPSU namely OFB lobbying to prevent severe competition.

I think the WIPRO/Infosys comparisons do not count because those companies were looking for contracts from the entire world. These Indian companies are only going to get a limited pool of money from Indian resources and rather than splitting that money up into small packets that makes huge investments unattractive- let the private company get the money and deliver. The world over - large companies have expanded their portfolio by mergers and acquisitions and not by starting off as Jacks of all trades. No Indian company has the skills or resources to compete even with the half-dead sloth bear DPSUs and they must have a pot of gold at the end rather than some shared scraps from our defence budget. Diversification can come if these companies can deliver. policies can change - but having competitions between multiple companies which don't have the skills to start with and don't have the funds to invest for assured returns - things will never get off the ground.

Are there any reports of FICCI protesting against this policy - because that would be an indicator of what private industry feels.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby abhik » 13 May 2017 20:36

We already have institutions that can design and develop armoured vehicles, fighter jets, helicopters etc. This only purpose this new policy serves is to give the large private conglomerates like Reliance, Tata a piece of the defence pie. And stymie the institutions with existing capabilities.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby shiv » 13 May 2017 21:55

abhik wrote: And stymie the institutions with existing capabilities.

Which institutions will be stymied?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby KrishnaK » 13 May 2017 22:28

As far as I can tell, the mutually exclusive rule applies only to the four segments chosen - single engine fighter aircraft, helicopters, submarines and armoured fighting vehicles. I don't see anything that says if you make submarines you can't make MLRS. This stipulation is not bad to start off with - don't want telecom jio/airtel style wars to break out. I think the idea is to nurture companies with technical capacity AND finances and jumpstart a minimum viable MIC. The original recommendation was to have two in each major segment IIRC. It is probably too early to let this play out as a free market.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby abhik » 13 May 2017 23:06

shiv wrote:
abhik wrote: And stymie the institutions with existing capabilities.

Which institutions will be stymied?

If armoured vehicles are going to be developed and built by private companies in partnership with global OEMs (i.e. screwdrivergiri) then what will DRDO labs like CVRDE and OFB plants do? The ability to design and manufacture armoured vehicles like Arjun has been gained only after decades of investment, now we just throw them away?
Another example is the the proposed Scorpene submarine follow up to be built by private players. AFAIK our conventional submarine fleet requirement is supposed to be 16 (lower estimate) to 24 (upper estimate), with each sub having a lifespan of say at least 30 years, all you need is a single production line which delivers a sub every 1 to 1.5 years running at steady state. We now have such a line at Mazagon, which finally started delivering after a decade of investment. And instead of sustaining this line we planning to open a new one, while the line at Mazagon is slowly winding down to a close.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 23:24

shiv wrote:
Karan M wrote:Sorry thats not how it is, it will stymie development till any policy change comes and till then the capex invested goes idle. L&T today is contributing to subs, radars, arty and thanks to this stupid policy, it may have to pick and choose rather than focusing on all round excellence. This decision is typical commie style decision making, whereas need of the hour is to have our own IAI or LG or Boeing which can make fighters, missiles and even invest in land systems. Like Wipro, you xan only work on SAP services. Infosys, CRM. Some other firm some other IT vity. What would have happened to Bangalore then? Or the Indian industry? Let the firms decide on theur capabilities and invest. Would we be anywhere if only Vodafone and BSNL could do cell phones and the rest were not preferred partners? Why make such a stupid policy to begin with? It just shows the utter lack of common sense in babucracy. Modi has to herd cats with this lot.

Same for Tata Power SED. They make multiple systems. They will be curtailed now. BTW, if the money is divided among 2-3 companies is exactly how both Akash (BEL, BDL with subsystems from multiple groups) and Pinaka (Tata, L&T) have bern successfully run. I cannot begin to express how stupid and misguided this policy decision was. Its been driven purely by MOD babucracy conservatism to avoid allegations of favoritism and so they dont gave to get off their @sses and certify capability (for which they know they are unsuited and dont want to give up.their power either) and DPSU namely OFB lobbying to prevent severe competition.

I think the WIPRO/Infosys comparisons do not count because those companies were looking for contracts from the entire world. These Indian companies are only going to get a limited pool of money from Indian resources and rather than splitting that money up into small packets that makes huge investments unattractive- let the private company get the money and deliver. The world over - large companies have expanded their portfolio by mergers and acquisitions and not by starting off as Jacks of all trades. No Indian company has the skills or resources to compete even with the half-dead sloth bear DPSUs and they must have a pot of gold at the end rather than some shared scraps from our defence budget. Diversification can come if these companies can deliver. policies can change - but having competitions between multiple companies which don't have the skills to start with and don't have the funds to invest for assured returns - things will never get off the ground.

Are there any reports of FICCI protesting against this policy - because that would be an indicator of what private industry feels.



Shiv, there are many companies whichhave already built up capabilities. Now they are veing forced to pigeonhe themselves. Next, cross leveraging for scale goes for a toss. L&T worked with DRDO on missile FCS for Pinaka etc. Today, they are taking their electronics expertise for K-9 FCS and the hydraulics stuff for DRDO radars. This policy will force them into one bucket. Its even worse for smaller firms like VEM which live program to program and work on multiple programs. Now they can forget about scaling up because the primes will gather the larger programs and even if VEM gets funding they cannot do a missile line by themselves. Our defence budget is substantial Shivji , our new programs are each thousands of crores worth. This blasted policy will lock into a cabal of shell firms funded by larger firms abroad scuttling our MSMEs and companies like Tata SED, L&T which have persevered to build cpmpetence in multiple areas.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 23:28

If the primes only one company rule is restricted to only this segment, its at least something. Hopefully a bad policy but not a disaster. But with one company alone, still a joke as far as competition goes. The Govt shipyards in particular will be chortling.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 13 May 2017 23:31

In Arty. Bharat Forge is the metals, barrel, forging expert. L&T the electronics. Tata has optics. So who should be the prime? What if L&T decides to leverage its nuke metal work experience and build barrels inhouse. Should we stop them? This GOI policy is nuts.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2017 02:23

This is what I mean. Common sensical decision making which will now be hampered by this policy.
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... lued-at-2b

Last December, the ministry placed an order for two regiments — one regiment is 18 systems — totaling a $350 million order for the Pinaka rocket launchers. Industry sources say India is now contemplating exporting the Pinaka.

The order will be split between the prime state-owned contractors Bharat Earth Movers Limited and the Ordnance Factories Board, or OFB, and private sector defense companies Larsen & Toubro and Tata Power SED. Under the contract, BEML will supply the vehicles for the rocket launchers; L&T and Tata Power SED will supply the launcher systems; and OFB will supply the rocket ammunition .

L&T and Tata Power SED have designed and developed the Pinaka system with the Defence Research and Development Organization, or DRDO. The Indian Army currently operates two regiments of the Pinaka systems.

Last December, the ministry placed an order for two regiments — one regiment is 18 systems — totaling a $350 million order for the Pinaka rocket launchers. Industry sources say India is now contemplating exporting the Pinaka.

The order will be split between the prime state-owned contractors Bharat Earth Movers Limited and the Ordnance Factories Board, or OFB, and private sector defense companies Larsen & Toubro and Tata Power SED. Under the contract, BEML will supply the vehicles for the rocket launchers; L&T and Tata Power SED will supply the launcher systems; and OFB will supply the rocket ammunition .

L&T and Tata Power SED have designed and developed the Pinaka system with the Defence Research and Development Organization, or DRDO. The Indian Army currently operates two regiments of the Pinaka systems.


And why is the Pinaka delayed? Because OFB is having issues with making the rockets in number at the right quality.
Pvt sector MSMEs in Hyderabad can make motors for Agni for DRDO. But OFB has issues with Pinaka.

And we want to lock down our programs to OFB+1 as versus OFB and many, making OFB competitive.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Y I Patel » 14 May 2017 07:58

This took a while getting to this point, but not much new from what we already know. One thing that did catch my eye in Shukla's summary is that the insistence on having two SPs seems to have been dropped - while two can still be considered, one will be deemed sufficient if a single vendor situation arises.

I feel that it would be very important to have a sunset clause for the strategic partnership. Any exclusivity obligations for contracts in a particular category should be for a fixed time period, not in perpetuity. This would strike a right balance - one should not expect a private company to take investment risks without ensuring a sustainable contract that would generate a reasonable ROI. This is especially true for development or production projects involving complex systems of systems like combat aircraft, submarines, etc. But beyond that, it should be open ended to not throttle any future competition - a party that starts with fixed wing aircraft should, in the normal course of things, be able to pick up expertise it can use for multi-engine transport aircraft production, or for helicopter production. And it is important to note that being a SP for one segment does not exclude a company from participating in non-SP segment projects (e.g. Arty, production of missiles, radars, etc.)

So the devil will still be in the details, especially in what is different from the previous policy. But this is encouraging how policy continues to precede choice of an actual system (e.g. F16) or the foreign OEM partner. Also of note are qualification criteria which are based on business track record (ever heard the term solvency ratio in the context of an Indian defense procurement before?) This is all very encouraging because this is how a business owner would think about a project, not a turnkey public sector entity that has never had to worry about being profitable, market driven, or customer oriented. That is the sea change which needs to come for Indian defense industry to truly become world class, and hopefully this SP policy will help trigger the change.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2017 08:41

This more or less implies that the SP's have the first or only dibs on any big-ticket program.

Once a shortlist of SPs and OEMs is available in a particular technology segment, the MoD can proceed with procuring that platform by issuing a “request for proposals” (RFP) to SPs in that technology segment. The RFP will mention shortlisted OEMs, so that the SPs can engage with them, choose an OEM partner, and submit an offer in collaboration with that company.


So how can other firms compete with that SP if the MOD does not even issue them a RFP!!

This assuming Shukla is not completely mistaken!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 14 May 2017 08:43

And this:

The policy’s initial aim is to shortlist six top companies as SPs in four technology segments – single engine fighter aircraft, helicopters, submarines and armoured fighting vehicles. A company can be nominated an SP in only one segment, and will have to indicate its preferences while applying.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Neshant » 15 May 2017 02:49

Apply for funding if you have a small company or if you are an academic or even individual with an idea for defence related product.

---------

Defence Ministry to launch innovation organisation

NEW DELHI: Defence Innovation Organistaion (DIO) is to be launched as a non-profit company later this month to foster technology development and innovative products with commercial potential for the defence sector, informed sources said.

The company is being formed by defence electronics major Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) and defence aviation major Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

The Defence Ministry had in December approved the creation of a Defence Innovation Fund (DIF) under which the DIO is being formed.

"This was a Ministry of Defence initiative and was tasked to BEL and HAL. The new entity will work under the guidance of the ministry which will provide the ideas and topics for innovation," a BEL source told IANS.

The company will fund development of new and innovative products and solutions for India's defence requirements.

"Anyone from academia, medium and small enterprises, research and development institutes, individuals and start ups can approach DIO for funding," source said.

"BEL and HAL are contributing Rs 5 crore each to Defence Innovation Organisation, a Section 8 company, to promote innovation in defence. The company will be launched within this month," the source said.

As per the Section 8 of the Indian Companies Act, 2013, not-for-profit companies can be established for promotion of art, culture, science et al.

After the launch, DIO will choose a knowledge partner for screening the ideas received for funding support.

The selected ideas will be financially supported to work on the proof of concept and those will go through further down selection process to select concepts that can be funded for prototype development.

The successful prototypes will also be helped in their commercialisation.

"If we get good response then the fund can go up to Rs 100 crore, with Rs 50 crore each from both the partners," source added.

The process of the registration of the company is in final stages.

According to sources, the company's board will initially have two nominated directors, one each from the HAL and BEL. The process of selection of the nominee directors is underway.

The DIO, in future, may also have some independent directors.

http://defenceaviationpost.com/defence- ... anisation/

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby srai » 15 May 2017 05:38

Karan M wrote:And this:

The policy’s initial aim is to shortlist six top companies as SPs in four technology segments – single engine fighter aircraft, helicopters, submarines and armoured fighting vehicles. A company can be nominated an SP in only one segment, and will have to indicate its preferences while applying.

It seems these guys are still thinking from MII license production angle. They love the idea of government-created monopolies.

Organic growth would be a better approach IMO. Outsource/Collaborate as much as possible to/with SMEs and large conglomerates for every project whether it's indigenous or licensed. Let it be a competitive process for each project with the winner(s) involved from R&D phase all the way to production. Make sure that the size of order is viable from ROI for everyone involved. If the quantities desired are substantial then look into multiple project partners at various component/parts level; even final assembly line could be spread across multiple Tier-1 or vertical integrators.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jayasimha » 15 May 2017 11:23

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=160294

Print ReleasePrintXClose
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
31-March-2017 15:07 IST
Defence Start-Ups

Government of India has launched ‘Start-up India’ initiative in January 2016, which aims at fostering entrepreneurship and promoting innovation by creating an ecosystem that is conducive for growth of start-ups. The data of start-ups recognized by Department of Industrial Policy & Promotion (DIPP), is maintained by ‘Start-up India’ and at present, there is no recognized start-up in the Defence sector. However, in order to encourage start-ups and give them an opportunity to contribute in the defence production, Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) and all Defence Public Sector Undertakings (DPSUs) have been mandated to follow the guidelines of Ministry of MSME regarding ‘Relaxation of norms for start-ups and Medium & Small Enterprises in public procurements on prior experience – prior turnover criteria’.


The Government has taken following actions to encourage culture of innovation in defence sector:-


• Under the new Defence Procurement Procedure (DPP) 2016 promulgated in April 2016, the ‘Make’ Procedure has been simplified. The procedure provides for funding of 90% of development cost by the Government to Indian industry for design, develop and manufacture of defence equipment. Projects not exceeding development cost of Rs. 10 crore (Government funded) and Rs. 3 crore (industry funded) have been reserved for MSMEs under this procedure.


The Government has recently approved a Defence Innovation Fund (DIF) with initial funding by two DPSUs; Bharat Electronic Limited (BEL) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). The fund aims at creation of ecosystem to foster innovation and technology development in Defence, by engaging R&D institutes / academia and industry including start-ups and provide them the funding to carry out innovative development which has the potential for future commercialization.


• The Government has also launched a scheme of Technology Development Fund (TDF) which aims at funding the development of defence and dual use technologies that are currently not available with the Indian defence Industry, or have not been developed so far, thus creating an ecosystem for enhancing cutting edge technology capability for Defence applications. The TDF scheme is implemented by Defence Research & Development Organization (DRDO) and provides for assistance in the form of grant to public and private industries for design and development of key defence technologies.


This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Dr. Subhash Bhamre in a written reply to Shri Asaduddin Owaisi in Lok Sabha today.


NAMPI/Ranjan

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Philip » 15 May 2017 13:08

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 675462.cms

Govt to set up specialised defence procurement organisation
Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: May 15, 2017,
The defence procurement organisation (DPO) will
streamline mega arms acquisitions
Sources said creation of the DPO as “a strategic imperative for longterm self-reliance” would be the second big-ticket defence reform to be set in motion.

Defence Minister Arun Jaitley has already received detailed presentations on the DPO. (PTI File Photo)Defence Minister Arun Jaitley has already received detailed presentations on the DPO. (PTI File Photo)
NEW DELHI: India does not get enough bang for its buck in the arms business. With this in mind, the defence ministry is now looking to create a specialised defence procurement organisation (DPO) to streamline mega arms acquisitions as well as leverage them to build a robust defence industrial base (DIB) in the country.

Defence ministry sources said creation of the DPO as "a strategic imperative for longterm self-reliance" would be the second big-ticket defence reform to be set in motion after the "strategic partnership (SP)" policy is finalised to boost the private sector's role in defence production.
The SP policy, under which select Indian private sector companies will be nominated to jointly produce weapons systems with global armament companies, is slated for discussion in the defence acquisitions council (DAC) meeting to be chaired by defence minister Arun Jaitley on Monday, as was earlier reported by TOI.

"Once the SP policy is hopefully cleared this month, the focus will shift to setting up the DPO. Jaitley has already received detailed presentations on the DPO, whose main aim will be to use India's arms procurement clout to build a strong DIB," said a source.
The "professional and empowered" DPO, which was recommended by the Pritam Singh committee, will "amalgamate" what the defence ministry currently does in "a fragmented and isolated manner" by integrating the longwinded and cumbersome arms acquisitions, offsets, defence production and other such processes.

"Vested with some autonomy
:rotfl: *(How much?), the DPO will function as the powerful executive arm of the defence minister-led DAC. After the DPO is approved by the Cabinet, it will take around two years to take full shape. :rotfl:

*(*This is the killer blow to the news item! Typical babudom.Why can't it be done in two months? Simply scrap the current system and bring in the new.)


It will also have legal, costing and contracting experts, who are largely missing in the existing system," he said.
*Ye Gods! Is this really true? Then how have we been acquiring weapon systems from anywhere over the last sev.decades? No legal/contracting experts? No wonder the deals have been so badly contracted with India being the sucker permanently dependent upon OEMs for performance,spares,etc.

India still acquires 65% of its military hardware and software from abroad, which not only places it in a strategically vulnerable position, but also ensures its enduring and embarrassing tag of being the world's largest arms importer.

This is primarily due to the sloppy performance of DRDO and its 50 labs, five defence PSUs, four shipyards and 41 ordnance factories as well as the failure to enthuse the private sector to enter defence production in a major way over the years.

The Modi government, after it came to office in May 2014, launched a major 'Make in India' drive in the defence production sector but it's yet to translate into anything concrete on the ground.
"There has been some improvement with the new Defence Procurement Procedure giving top priority to the new indigenous design, development and manufacturing (IDDM) category. We hope the SP policy and DPO, working in conjunction, will catalyse the defence-industrial ecosystem in the country," said the source.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Neshant » 15 May 2017 13:27

Philip wrote: India does not get enough bang for its buck in the arms business. With this in mind, the defence ministry is now looking to create a specialised defence procurement organisation (DPO) to streamline mega arms acquisitions as well as leverage them to build a robust defence industrial base (DIB) in the country.


These jokers need to open up the country to the import of electronic components & tools.
That supply chain is completely missing in India.
There is no way any Indian can gain deep level experience in this stuff if he can't even rapidly import the stuff he needs to get started.

Setting up an organization of babus is not going to do a thing.
They have never innovated anything into existence in their life so what could they possibly know about the process of innovation.
The drive has to come from the inventors, innovators & entrepreneurs in the nation.

Innovators need quick access to the things they need to get started.
Components, tools, venture capital, a functioning legal system, no govt bureaucracy and govt corruption.
That's all.

Stop handing over vast sums of money to foreign arms producers thinking its going to kickstart anything.
Its a big bill for a bunch of nothing.

SSridhar
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby SSridhar » 15 May 2017 15:10

IIT Bombay gives a leg-up to thermal imaging technology - Jayant Sriram, The Hindu
Develops India’s first infrared sensors

Night-vision devices like goggles or telescopes are a key part of modern military and security operations. Whether you’ve seen them in movies or television shows or read about them in novels, the concept has been around for a number of years. What is less known, perhaps, is that while the Indian Army relies heavily on these devices for a range of operations, they have never been produced indigenously.

A team of scientists from IIT-Bombay has now made a key breakthrough in developing India’s first infrared sensors for thermal imaging. The research started in 2010, with funding from the Defence Research and Development Organisation. The details of the work have been published in the prominent journal Current Science in April 2017.

Multiple applications

The technology, the scientists say, can be used for a range of applications such as night vision, surveillance and — going beyond military and security operations — even in the detection of cancers.

“The successful development and demonstration of indigenous infrared sensors to image human objects is a major milestone for the Indian scientific community,” says Subhananda Chakrabarti, of IIT-B’s department of electrical engineering, where the infrastructure for creating the sensor was developed.

In an air-conditioned room in the department, Prof. Chakrabarti and his team are able to use the sensor to capture startlingly clear images of human subjects, even when the room is in complete darkness. The sensor captures the thermal signature emanated by a subject and is accurate to the point of picking up minor temperature differences: put your hand on a cold surface for two seconds for instance, and that spot on your palm registers darker on the camera.

“This will make the indigenous thermal imaging or night vision technology affordable and cheaper and will serve as a perfect example of Made In India.”

This project could, perhaps, be the first significant development in the push for indigenous military equipment production. According to Prof. Chakrabarti, the DRDO spends about Rs. 1,000 crore per year on importing night-vision devices for Indian soldiers and has been searching for an indigenous solution for over two decades.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby arvin » 16 May 2017 07:54

Philip wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/govt-to-set-up-specialised-defence-procurement-organisation/articleshow/58675462.cms

New menu of Alphabet soups created : DPO, DIB, IDDM. Total time pass only.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jayasimha » 16 May 2017 10:56

^^
it is like when u are hungry, I give u bubble gum.
U open the cover and start chewing continuously. but it will not quench your hunger.
but to a third party it appears I have give a "lot" to eat.
-------
This is called bubble gum technology.

ramana
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 16 May 2017 22:12

Folks this thread is about R&D in DRDO, PSUs, and the Private Sector.
Not about freeing up economy.

ramana
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby ramana » 16 May 2017 22:13

That IITB report looks like a lab demonstration.

Project started in 2010 and results in 2017 and the prof talks about decades long search for IR sensors.
Can some onepost a link to the Current Science article?

link to pdf:

http://www.currentscience.ac.in/php/sho ... &page=1568

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Gyan » 17 May 2017 10:57

SP System is important otherwise no one will sink in massive investments. A small arms manufacturing unit requires investment of Rs. 1000 crores. A thermal imaging sensor manfactering line requires investment of Rs. 2000 crores. Heavy press for aerospace and submarine require investment of Rs 500 crores etc

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby A Sharma » 23 May 2017 19:09

Astra Microwave Earnings Call

On BrahMos, the regular telemetry products we are supplying, but in other side the seekers, which we have taken up for development, it is in the final integration stage and it may take another three to four months time for us to demonstrate to the customer.

Rahul Gajare: Okay, Sir, but in BrahMos we would know right, what are the kind of order numbers?
M.V.Reddy: Yes, we know, but as you said the regular products are not having the significant value, but the major product what we are developing for BrahMos is the seeker that is in the development and there is delay in the approving the spec etc., so that is in the final integration stage. As I said in next three to four months we should be able to demonstrate to the customer.

Rahul Gajare: Sir, but you are the only one who is developing this for BrahMos or other parallel development, which is going around?
M.V.Reddy: There are various versions for the various applications, so we are developing in for one particular application.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jayasimha » 24 May 2017 16:02

https://www.indianarmy.nic.in/Site/Pres ... dKCnBCDA==

The 3rd Defence – ITTA (Indian Technical Textile Association) Joint Seminar cum Exhibition

This lady was doing so well in Human resources. Unfortunately she was removed ( may be school/ text book swindling lobby dint like her much )

Now she is doing her bit in textiles. Hope forces take full advantage of her tenure.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2017 18:31

Kudos to the PM to stand his ground.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 808375.cms

4 lakh Defence employees plan massive strike

BENGALURU: At a time when commanders of India's defence forces are delivering pep talks and preparing their personnel for prospective conflicts, 4 lakh employees working with 41 ordnance factories, naval docks, and other productions units that form the backbone of the armed forces' are readying themselves for a massive protest.

The multiple protests against the government's move to increase privatisation in defence production beginning from Wednesday are likely to disrupt work in parts but experts say it is unlikely to change the Centre's resolve, which they believe is the right way forward.

The has now finalised the 'strategic partnership' policy that will see increased private participation in defence manufacturing in the coming years.

On Wednesday, a one-hour "no work" protest is planned in all of the ordnance factories, 52 Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) labs, naval docks, ship-building units, a few Indian Air Force stations, and defence PSUS. (lol)

The protests come after multiple attempts by the trade unions to secure a meeting with Defence Minister Arun Jaitley failed and letters to more than 60 members of parliament (MPs) including several on the Defence Standing Committee did not garner any response.

"We have even written to Amit Shah and Sonia Gandhi. The Centre did not take us into confidence before taking such an important decision on privatisation. We are not just concerned about thousands of jobs that will be lost in the coming years, but also about the strategic issues," All India Defence Employees' Federation (AIDEF) General Secretary C Srikumar told TOI from Chennai.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 25 May 2017 22:59

DRDO is visibly more ahead on GaN modules than i had thought. 400W modules are fairly credible for many requirements, especially strategic ground based units which can pack many of these. Further improvements will come. The pure GaAs TRM i suspect refers to the Xband TRMS which were originally around 8W each.

http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/labs1/LRDE/ ... oducts.jsp

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby arvin » 26 May 2017 06:28

This 1 hour no work is there in all industry. Its called lunch break.
These guys are not attempting anything more damaging only means they have the fear of losing jobs to private sector.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby shiv » 26 May 2017 07:09

arvin wrote:This 1 hour no work is there in all industry. Its called lunch break.
These guys are not attempting anything more damaging only means they have the fear of losing jobs to private sector.

I think at least a few will know that there is to be an expansion of the defence industry and not a contraction - but this is no "workers movement". This is an obvious left-party Congress inspired instigation to cause trouble for government initiatives. As always...

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Yagnasri » 26 May 2017 11:25

With 4 Lakh workers, we are the biggest importers of arms in the world. We need to take babus of MoD out of their office and hang them to current polls.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Marten » 26 May 2017 11:49

There is no research or manufacturing organization free of the menace of strikes. In Bangalore, there must be a strike each month at any of the given units. If you add OFB, GCF and other maintenance bases and so on, then you will have a strike a day over this country. Not without reason that forces look down upon the average DPSU employee. I do not condone it but no party etc. is free of it too -- let's not attribute any malice to just one set of parties -- all of them benefit equally from their representative unions and will not act against them. Most folks (esp those from the forces) who keep talking about employee incompetence and indiscipline are obviously peeved by this more than other issues such as lack of accountability or ownership.

As with other complaints, one finds that some agencies are better run while others are basically retirement plans. It will take time shaking these up, but the new lot of youngsters are a shining hope.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby jayasimha » 29 May 2017 16:29

posting for records.
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/PrintRelease. ... lid=162208

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
28-May-2017 20:57 IST
Defence Minister Arun Jaitley dedicates Aeronautical Test range to The Nation

The DM inaugurated the newly built Aeronautical Test Range (ATR) of the DRDO at challakere, Chitradurga in Karnataka.

DM said facilities such as the ATR will help in creating conditions for research, which will in turn develop the type of human resource in the country required in the field of aeronautical testing.

Complimenting the DRDO Shri Jaitley said the development of the test range will cater to the needs of DRDO for testing of indigenously developed aeronautical systems. He said the facility would also contribute to the development of the region in which Chitradurga is located.

The ATR is the first of its kind range in the country exclusively meant to conduct flight-tests of indigenous unmanned and manned aircrafts, developed by the DRDO including
1]the naval and trainer versions of the Light Combat Aircraft,
2]the unmanned air vehicles- Rustom-I and Rustom-II (Tapas);
3]the Airborne Early Warning & Control Systems (AEW&C),
4]Air-to-Ground weapons, parachutes and aerostats, etc.

This outdoor testing and evaluating facility has been set up by the Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), one of the premier laboratories of the DRDO.

Spread across 4,029 acres, the 28 kilometre perimeter strategic test range envisages
1] two kilometre runway besides other tracking and control equipment where a rail link to the facility has also been planned.
2]The State-of-the-Art Range Control Centre (RCC) houses the Air Traffic Display System with remote control of Radar operations,
3]ATC RF Voice communication system, Ground Telemetry system, Mission Video Distribution and Display System and Range Operational Communication System.
4]The Radar centre houses Primary Radar and Secondary Surveillance Radar (MSSR).


About 200 acres of land outside the technical area is earmarked for a township with a shopping complex, school, hospital and transit facility.

The landmark event was attended by Shri S. Thippeswamy, MLA Molakalmuru and Shri Janardhana Swamy former MP, Chitradurga , Dr S. Christopher Chairman DRDO along with a large number of officers of the DRDO and the Armed Forces, civil administration and other invitees.

****


NW/DK

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby abhik » 29 May 2017 17:59

Runway is only 2 km long?


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