India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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Amber G.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Amber G. » 05 Dec 2018 21:49

Amber G. wrote:This, IMO, is BIG and great. I have also seen it in news reports so can be shared in open forum.

Our scientists and defence has developed a cutting-edge materials which is RADAR *and* Infrared absorbing. Will keep soldiers "invisible" and safe. This is, as far as I know, first of its kind in the world and really great. Congratulations.

Researchers from IIT Kanpur have developed cutting-edge metamaterials that will be of great importance in developing our country’s defence capabilities. Profs. Anantha Ramakrishnan, Department of Physics; J Ramkumar, Department of Mechanical Engineering and Kumar Vaibhav Srivastava, Department of Electrical Engineering have developed transparent RADAR absorbent material, the first in the world to cover all RADAR frequencies as well as textile-based material, non-detectable by RADAR, which can be used in uniforms for soldiers as well as skirtings for war machines.

They have also developed India’s first infrared absorbent metamaterial, meant to prevent hot objects from emitting infrared radiation, making them virtually undetectable at night. These will be crucial for keeping our defence systems and soldiers safe from attacks at night.

**> This news is in HT:
IIT-K scientists develop material to help soldiers avoid detection by enemy
Scientists said the material can be used as uniforms for personnel and skirting or covering ground vehicles to avoid their detection by the enemy’s advanced battlefield radars, motion-detecting ground sensors and thermal imaging systems.
INDIA Updated: Dec 04, 2018 13:10 IST
Scientists at the Indian Institute of Technology-Kanpur (IIT-K) said on Monday they have developed textile-based metamaterials that can help defence personnel and vehicles avoid being detected by enemy radars.

The project was supported by the Defence Research Development Organisation, the department of science and technology, and IIT-K. It was carried out by Kumar Vaibhav Srivastava of the electrical engineering department and J Ramkumar of the mechanical engineering department of the institute.

They said the material can be used as uniforms for personnel and skirting or covering ground vehicles to avoid their detection by the enemy’s advanced battlefield radars, motion-detecting ground sensors and thermal imaging systems. The material is flexible and can be customised for different climates, they added.

“In a major achievement, we have designed and produced micro-structured infra-red metamaterials with processes that can be readily scaled for mass production to cover large area surfaces. These infra-red metamaterials are applied on any given surface to reduce the thermal emission to create infra-red stealth,” professor S Anantha Ramakrishna of the department of physics at IIT-K said.


Transparent meta-material absorbers have also been developed for vehicular windshields or a canopy of slow aircraft like helicopters.

“We are also in the process of developing robust meta-materials for radar stealth which can be applied on high-speed aircraft and switchable meta-materials for active camouflage applications,” Ramakrishna said.

He said at the beginning of the 21st century, new composite micro-structured materials called meta-materials were found to have very unexpected properties due to their specific structure that caused resonant interactions with electromagnetic waves.


Ramakrishna said they began working on defence applications of metamaterials, which will reduce radar detection in most radar bands, around 2010.

“Stealth fighter aircraft were already in use but they used very different concepts and heavy ceramic ferrites for achieving stealth. Meta-material based absorbers held the promise of lightweight, ultra-thin and flexible materials that could be applied literally on any surface to give the required properties at radar frequencies, infra-red frequencies or even optical frequencies,” he said.

The professor said they have also been able to realise metamaterials for infra-red light that will enable forces to completely control the emission of infra-red light from surfaces, which can be used for infra-red stealth.


“Laboratory level development of demonstrations has been completed and now we are proceeding for field testing,” he said.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Arun.prabhu » 05 Dec 2018 22:04

Heat energy has to go somewhere. If we use these, how will our soldiers and war equipments manage the heat energy they generate, I wonder... Further, unlike radar, IR is sensed passively. If all that this system will do is absorb heat energy but not radiate it, it'll be useful, but not be revolutionary.

The radar absorbent metamaterial is very interesting. If it absorbs all radio frequencies, the possibilities are very interesting. Kudos to the inventors.

Amber G. wrote:
Amber G. wrote:This, IMO, is BIG and great. I have also seen it in news reports so can be shared in open forum.

Our scientists and defence has developed a cutting-edge materials which is RADAR *and* Infrared absorbing. Will keep soldiers "invisible" and safe. This is, as far as I know, first of its kind in the world and really great. Congratulations.


**> This news is in HT:
IIT-K scientists develop material to help soldiers avoid detection by enemy
Scientists said the material can be used as uniforms for personnel and skirting or covering ground vehicles to avoid their detection by the enemy’s advanced battlefield radars, motion-detecting ground sensors and thermal imaging systems.
INDIA Updated: Dec 04, 2018 13:10 IST
Scientists at the Indian Institute of Technology-Kanpur (IIT-K) said on Monday they have developed textile-based metamaterials that can help defence personnel and vehicles avoid being detected by enemy radars.

The project was supported by the Defence Research Development Organisation, the department of science and technology, and IIT-K. It was carried out by Kumar Vaibhav Srivastava of the electrical engineering department and J Ramkumar of the mechanical engineering department of the institute.

They said the material can be used as uniforms for personnel and skirting or covering ground vehicles to avoid their detection by the enemy’s advanced battlefield radars, motion-detecting ground sensors and thermal imaging systems. The material is flexible and can be customised for different climates, they added.

“In a major achievement, we have designed and produced micro-structured infra-red metamaterials with processes that can be readily scaled for mass production to cover large area surfaces. These infra-red metamaterials are applied on any given surface to reduce the thermal emission to create infra-red stealth,” professor S Anantha Ramakrishna of the department of physics at IIT-K said.


Transparent meta-material absorbers have also been developed for vehicular windshields or a canopy of slow aircraft like helicopters.

“We are also in the process of developing robust meta-materials for radar stealth which can be applied on high-speed aircraft and switchable meta-materials for active camouflage applications,” Ramakrishna said.

He said at the beginning of the 21st century, new composite micro-structured materials called meta-materials were found to have very unexpected properties due to their specific structure that caused resonant interactions with electromagnetic waves.


Ramakrishna said they began working on defence applications of metamaterials, which will reduce radar detection in most radar bands, around 2010.

“Stealth fighter aircraft were already in use but they used very different concepts and heavy ceramic ferrites for achieving stealth. Meta-material based absorbers held the promise of lightweight, ultra-thin and flexible materials that could be applied literally on any surface to give the required properties at radar frequencies, infra-red frequencies or even optical frequencies,” he said.

The professor said they have also been able to realise metamaterials for infra-red light that will enable forces to completely control the emission of infra-red light from surfaces, which can be used for infra-red stealth.


“Laboratory level development of demonstrations has been completed and now we are proceeding for field testing,” he said.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 05 Dec 2018 22:10

Prasad wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Prasad almost all the radars mentioned above are phased arrays whereas all the newer ones are active phased arrays.

My fault. I meant the HPR type ones. 12 of those iirc. I wonder if an MPAR style system is being looked-at.


Here you go. Its like a 4 panel Arudhra, with 50% greater performance.
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/II ... -radar.pdf

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 05 Dec 2018 23:30

The meta-material is DRDO funded project and specification/requirements were laid down by DRDO.

They will want to figure out a way to embedded these material on to a composite skin of aircraft and the effect of high speed and air friction/heat on these material.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby titash » 05 Dec 2018 23:39

nam wrote:
Karan M wrote:The biggest need of the hour is for the IAF to fund a DRDO program to adapt the Uttam for the Su-30 fleet and keep the program going and advancing beyond what it has achieved. A high density AESA on the Su-30 fleet, domestically sourced, can be a huge win for the IAF.
Similarly Naval radars are stated to be on the anvil from Arudhra (DRDO press release). We should start focusing on longer range L band units too like SMART-L for naval applications.


The irony is Uttam is a better fit for Su30 at this stage compared to LCA. Putting Uttam on LCA means switching BVR or integration with Derby. For SU30 since Astra is already done, it is easier to put in Uttam! Moreover it is in the MLU phase as well and Russian hardly have cutting edge airborne AESA.

There seems to be no major hurry on Su30 uprgade, Uttam can definitely be considered.

Regarding the Naval radar, BEL has brought out Rawl-03 a GaN radar. SAAB says it is L band, BEL says it is C band!

Even in the video below, it says L band and the poster has C band !
https://saab.com/region/india/about-saab/stories/saab-india-stories/2018/saab-and-bharat-electronics-co-develop-surveillance-radar/

On BEL's website, there is another S band radar called "Missile defence radar". If they are one and the same, I don't know.

RAWL-03 is probably going in to P15B onwards.


Most likely it will go on the smaller IN vessels to be inducted shortly...since the radar is designed for vehicles and small ships
- 16 ASW shallow water craft...doubtful since they lack fire control radars/SAM
- 7 next gen missile corvettes...most likely candidates
- Karmorta class upgrades? perhaps

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Thakur_B » 06 Dec 2018 10:35

Karan M wrote:
Prasad wrote:My fault. I meant the HPR type ones. 12 of those iirc. I wonder if an MPAR style system is being looked-at.


Here you go. Its like a 4 panel Arudhra, with 50% greater performance.
https://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/English/II ... -radar.pdf


EL/M-2084 substitute ?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2018 13:41

Well we need a lighter weight antenna, a gimbal and the aerostat to hoist it all up. :oops:

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2018 13:41

nam wrote:The meta-material is DRDO funded project and specification/requirements were laid down by DRDO.

They will want to figure out a way to embedded these material on to a composite skin of aircraft and the effect of high speed and air friction/heat on these material.


Good find. Any link?

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 06 Dec 2018 15:01

Karan M wrote:
nam wrote:The meta-material is DRDO funded project and specification/requirements were laid down by DRDO.

They will want to figure out a way to embedded these material on to a composite skin of aircraft and the effect of high speed and air friction/heat on these material.


Good find. Any link?


https://defenceforumindia.com/forum/thr ... 5/page-221

This page has the image of the professor along with the specification of the frequency it is effective. If you have an account, then you can see the large format of the image with the all the details.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 06 Dec 2018 18:32

Ok, thanks this is really credible stuff and designed for practical application. If they can integrate this into the composite skin of our aircraft, even as secondary layer.. great stuff. Thanks to AmberG and you for flagging this.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 04:47

nam wrote:Something I was trying to get confirmation. SSPL's GaN X band effort.

This video confirms SSPL has X band GaN HEMT for RF at 5 watt in 2017. If I am not wrong 10-15 Watts would allow us to use GaN in fighter radar.
There are some info floating on internet that we have reached 10 watt and GAETEC is able to repeat the process. Cannot confirm.

At 3:55


If they have managed to make S/C/L Band GaN devices in bulk, its possible they do have an AWACS India antenna populated and ready for tests. GaN had achieved 10W/mm @ 50V as of 2017. They didn't have X-Band at the time but were trying for it, and had managed till L/S/C. Looks like they then delivered 200 HEMTs at C/S/X band at 5W/mm for tests. This combined with the DRDO's stated plans for their AESA architecture clearly explains why they aren't yet mucking around with exotic bands for their radar programs. Simply put we don't need to. Really remarkable how far we have come from such a limited footprint of 1x homegrown radar in the 1980-90s.

Just to reiterate how rapidly DRDO has leveraged successful programs across different radars. The S-Band TRM tech developed via the AEW&C, and then the matured tech. fielded via Arudhra has led to Ashwini, and then ADTCR, and now the Mountain Radar & HPR programs. I am fairly certain the C-Band tech will be used for WLRs or Akash NG and they are being used for the QRSAM, while we know the X-Band GaAs modules have been used for Uttam, the QRSAM and the ADFCR.

The next tranche of development will really be interesting as we are aiming squarely at what the bigwig in the field is fielding.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 05:10

DRDO is really rocking the frugal engineering mindset using the scale offered by the engineering bench strength in India. For a fraction of the cost allocated by WW bigwigs, they have been developing system after system. Now for that same stuff to be replicated across missiles.

https://salute.co.in/military-modernisa ... air-force/
AM Nambiar:
We are in the development stage of the Pralay—a guided short-range (400 km) tactical ballistic missile for battlefield use developed by DRDO. Also developed for the IAF are the precision guided munitions (PGMs) Garuthmaa and Garudaa. An air launched anti tank missile has been developed called SANT (Stand off Anti Tank) which will have multi-platform launch capability and can be launched from attack helicopters. Other weapons developed are the SAAW (Smart Anti Airfield Weapon), Dhruv Astra an anti surface missile and a new generation anti radiation missile—the Rudram-1. We also have the Rudram-2 and Rudram-3 missiles which are variants of the Rudram-1 with different functions for ground attack.


That's 9 missiles/PGMs being developed in one go for the IAF, pretty much covering the entire gamut of their needs. Add to this the GP bombs, Astra & Nirbhay.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby sum » 07 Dec 2018 07:44

Tragic news:
What caused blast? Confusion on IISc campus

A pall of gloom descended on the Indian Institute of Science (IISc) campus, where an explosion at the Laboratory for Hypersonic and Shock Wave Research (LHSR) claimed the life of an engineer, and critically injured three others. The blast, which occurred around 2.15pm, could be heard across the campus, according to students who gathered at the lab to find out what had happened.
As news of the blast spread through the campus, there was confusion, especially among those who work and study at the department of aerospace engineering. No one seemed to be able to pinpoint what exactly caused the blast, and theories began doing the rounds. The force of the blast was enough to blow away every window of the lab and even affected the roof, which is at least 20 feet high. “Such a blast can occur only with the presence of a fuel,” said one anxious student from the department.


Super Wave Technology Private Limited, a startup founded by Professors G Jagadeesh and KPJ Reddy, from the department of aerospace engineering, was housed at the Laboratory for Hypersonic and Shock Wave Research, and was working in the area of shockwaves and how they could be applied to daily situations as well as industrial ones. They have earlier delivered solutions which allow for drug patches which deliver vaccines, insulin and antibiotics through shockwaves, instead of injections

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 12:34

This sort of stuff happens. Its regrettable but also reiterates that people toiling silently in the background often take great risks.

I still remember meeting an old Bengali gentleman from DMRL, a senior scientist, who was overjoyed to have people genuinely interested in what he did for "Mother India", he mentioned how once he left an experiment in his lab and went out for a bite to eat, only for it to explode and take out his lab. Devoted to the cause and his patriotism was eye-opening in an era where it is "un-cool" to be nationalistic and any such beliefs are "toxic", "hyper-nationalistic", "jingoistic" etc. Yet, there he was having dedicated his life to ensure India got some breakthroughs in an esoteric field. We are lucky that way.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 07 Dec 2018 13:17

Karan M wrote:If they have managed to make S/C/L Band GaN devices in bulk, its possible they do have an AWACS India antenna populated and ready for tests. GaN had achieved 10W/mm @ 50V as of 2017. They didn't have X-Band at the time but were trying for it, and had managed till L/S/C. Looks like they then delivered 200 HEMTs at C/S/X band at 5W/mm for tests. This combined with the DRDO's stated plans for their AESA architecture clearly explains why they aren't yet mucking around with exotic bands for their radar programs. Simply put we don't need to. Really remarkable how far we have come from such a limited footprint of 1x homegrown radar in the 1980-90s.


On DRDO's website, they have claimed to have L/S/C TRM at 400W. DRDO chief in one of the interview mentions that GaN S band is at 40W, targetting 110W to allow them to apply for radar. So 400W must be L band.

10W @ 50V is at X band. I don't know if they have TRM for X band. They would targetting for atleast 20W. Equivalent power rating to GaAs 10W X band does not provide any advantage and will be expensive.They would only go for it, in case the criteria is to get more range for the same onboard. Once they achieve 20W or more, it is worth using GaN.

Given the cost factor, I would expect GaN to be applied to land based radar, given the numbers required. Also you can provide it with more power.
Next in line will airborne, so the current version of India AWACS is probably GaAs based.

Further version might be GaN. We have to also consider the time required to qualify the TRM.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 07 Dec 2018 17:18

nam wrote:
Karan M wrote:If they have managed to make S/C/L Band GaN devices in bulk, its possible they do have an AWACS India antenna populated and ready for tests. GaN had achieved 10W/mm @ 50V as of 2017. They didn't have X-Band at the time but were trying for it, and had managed till L/S/C. Looks like they then delivered 200 HEMTs at C/S/X band at 5W/mm for tests. This combined with the DRDO's stated plans for their AESA architecture clearly explains why they aren't yet mucking around with exotic bands for their radar programs. Simply put we don't need to. Really remarkable how far we have come from such a limited footprint of 1x homegrown radar in the 1980-90s.


On DRDO's website, they have claimed to have L/S/C TRM at 400W. DRDO chief in one of the interview mentions that GaN S band is at 40W, targetting 110W to allow them to apply for radar. So 400W must be L band.

10W @ 50V is at X band. I don't know if they have TRM for X band. They would targetting for atleast 20W. Equivalent power rating to GaAs 10W X band does not provide any advantage and will be expensive.They would only go for it, in case the criteria is to get more range for the same onboard. Once they achieve 20W or more, it is worth using GaN.

Given the cost factor, I would expect GaN to be applied to land based radar, given the numbers required. Also you can provide it with more power.
Next in line will airborne, so the current version of India AWACS is probably GaAs based.

Further version might be GaN. We have to also consider the time required to qualify the TRM.


I am talking of the HEMTs at W/mm (power density). You are taking that as overall W achieved by the module, there is a difference.

So don't take 10w/mm as = to the 10W module achieved by a TRM which has entirely different subcomponents. The 10W/mm modules can operate at 5W/mm @ 28V. However, typically the larger value is mentioned (all-up performance), so the video above could be referring to the earlier components.

Also size matters. The Large Peak power wattage TRM systems mentioned (on the website) are the large modules for ground based radar using different types of components, base technologies, amplifiers etc. Some use GaAS, others use Si-based LDMOS tech. etc.

The compact TRM modules for X-Band are currently at 10W using GaAs modules, BEL/DRDO have them packaged in planks (4/6/8) depending on application. These are being used across Uttam, QRSAM, Atulya, BEL AESA BFSR and likely some strategic programs.

I remember the DRDO Chief's interview (forgot when it was made though) and given the rapid pace at which these advancements are being made, it could very well be he was referring to the lower power density HEMTs which resulted in a lower peak power TR module.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 08 Dec 2018 01:31

Ingenious design. A C band TRM with GaN Transmitter and GaAs Receiver from BEL! Neat, get the power efficiency for transmitter, but keep the cost down with the receiver.

Credit: Delhi Defence Review

Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby nam » 08 Dec 2018 02:14

Alpha, GaN 110W S band 7 TRM Plank. This solves the comment made by DRDO chief on waiting for S Band 110W. Wonder if this is going in to India AWACS.

Credit: Delhi Defence Review

Image

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2018 05:53

The first set are for QRSAM radars ( https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... IuJvb9S8wA), and Uttam. Second set, likely for AWACS India.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Prasad » 08 Dec 2018 08:36

Alpha uses off the shelf GaN from global market, not Indian. BEL lady at the stall want too keen on answering questions about the X Band module. Atleast she object to taking these pictures!

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2018 17:56

Prasad wrote:Alpha uses off the shelf GaN from global market, not Indian. BEL lady at the stall want too keen on answering questions about the X Band module. Atleast she object to taking these pictures!


Thanks Prasad. Alpha seems to be the go to partner for CABS if I recall correctly. Why the heck did the BEL lady object?? That Alpha module design is reminiscent of this for the AEW&C
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... M.jpg.html
Could you figure out whether it was for the regular programs in Arudhra etc or the AWACs.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Karan M » 08 Dec 2018 17:59

Note 8*65W peak in earlier TRM set. Now it's 7*110W, around a 50 perc increase in performance with one less TRM module.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Prasad » 08 Dec 2018 18:19

Karan M wrote:Thanks Prasad. Alpha seems to be the go to partner for CABS if I recall correctly. Why the heck did the BEL lady object?? That Alpha module design is reminiscent of this for the AEW&C
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/Aer ... M.jpg.html
Could you figure out whether it was for the regular programs in Arudhra etc or the AWACs.

Sorry for that terrible post. Need to recheck before hitting the submit button while on mobile.
No idea why the bel lady was acting that way. Wanted to ask us why we were so interested in the X-band systems. Guess, we should be thankful they're prudent? :P

And yeah they're CABS (and LCA) partners. The lady at Alpha was very enthu to talk to us. Several modules are being flight tested and she was greatly upbeat. Don't really wanna talk about ew stuff.

Will lookup that trrm at night properly and reply to that.

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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Postby Paul » 10 Dec 2018 16:54

Tarmak007 added 2 new photos.
10 mins ·
LUH clears 6-km altitude flight

(Unedited release)

The Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) has achieved an important milestone of flying at 6 km altitude here in Bengaluru, recently. The chopper was flown by Chief Test Pilot Wg Cdr Unni K Pillai (Retd) and Test Pilot, Wg Cdr Anil Bhambhani (Retd).

The flight was carried out under the envelope expansion tests and flying at 6 km altitude is a critical requirement towards the certification of LUH. The helicopter exhibited satisfactory performance and handling qualities. With the completion of this milestone, LUH can now undertake high altitude cold weather trials planned in January 2019.

The LUH is a 3-ton class new generation helicopter designed and developed by Rotary Wing Research and Design Center (RWR&DC) of HAL to replace the ageing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters used by Indian Armed Forces. First flight of LUH PT-1 was carried on September 6, 2016 and the second Prototype flew on May 22, 2017. HAL has in principal order for 187 LUH that includes 126 for Indian Army and 61 for IAF


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