Karan M wrote:jphnee g, request please - please no page long posts if you are replying to me. if you have something compress it and post it. otherwise this will be my last reply to you. you may have the time for long exchanges wherein i have to hunt for your statements and compose a reply. i find it hard.
Karan M, please don't give any suggestions on how I should post. I'll post the way I think I should be posting. I don't care whether you reply or not or even whether you read or not. If you don't have time, then thats your problem.
Karan M wrote:
johneeG wrote:His simple achievement is that he happens to be PM. As simple as that. And it seems to be the Govt policy to clear the oldies who have been having extensions.
oopsyhttp://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/ ... ority.html
ps: for one quoting policy, usually generalists consult specialists before making policy and in a democracy above appeals to authority dont work.
You were the one who started this 'whats his achievement' argument. And I just gave you the answer. He decides because he is the PM. And thats how democracy works.
Anyway, this policy is not about science. It is about management. When so many of the Top scientists in an institute are on extension, then clearly it is a result mis-management and needs better management. And thats precisely what Modi Govt is doing.
Karan M wrote:pps: he is not infallible. automatically assuming that whatever he says/does cant be debated, isnt democracy, its banana republic behavior.
I didn't say that you can't criticize the govt. I am a big supporter of anyone who criticizes the authorities because I think criticism keeps the system alert and working well. But, you were not criticizing the policy. You don't like the policy, fine. You can criticize the policy and point out why you think its a wrong policy. But, you were indulging in a silly logic that unless the PM is a Top scientist, he should simply keep giving extensions.
Karan M wrote:
If the Generals are also on extensions, then maybe he will also ask them to go.
yeah, because the govt first puts the generals on extensions and then yanks it away..people shouldnt even raise their eyebrows..
Well, apparently, thats what the contract based extension was. So, the Govt has every right to terminate the extension if it feels the need. Why should there be any raised eyebrows?
Karan M wrote:
Obviously, the Govt does not agree with you. The Govt seems to feel that younger lot need to be given opportunities and that the oldies are clogging the upward mobility.
upward mobility, lol
boss we need merit based mobility not quotas for young, old etc
Fine. But, there will be no upward mobility(merit based or seniority based) if the same oldies are given extensions after extensions. The younger lot will never get a chance.
Karan M wrote:
Karan M wrote:their knowledge is hard won, across usually a handful of programs which is then leveraged across others.
The whole idea of creating institutions is to not depend on individuals. If an institution has not been able to groom the next generation to take over the mantle, then that too is counted as a failure. Extensions are not going to solve anything. Extensions are a bad policy. It is also a bad policy if a single person is holding too many portfolios.
It is good that all such decisions are being taken. It tells me that the institutions will become really better. Kudos to Modi Govt for taking a good decision. Hopefully, the younger lot will step up and seize the opportunities.
missed the point by a mile. where is the CURRENT pool of people to draw upon?? what happens to CURRENT programs while the Govt comes up with some great policy?
You are the one missing the point. The whole point is that the new pool of youngsters is not being created because the youngsters are quitting as they seem to feel that there is no upward mobility. There is no upward mobility because of extensions to oldies.
So, the first step is to stop giving extensions to oldies. Then, there will be upward mobility. Then, more and more youngsters will join and be retained. Then, there will be a good pool of talent.
BTW, if you say that there is no talent pool in current circumstances, does it not mean that even you are accepting that the management policy is not working? Will extensions create new talent pool? What happens if top scientists suddenly quit for some reason?
Good management means creating a good institution which can run even if an individual is not available for some reason. Thats what the Govt is trying to do. Dependence on individuals and extensions is being minimized and proper management policy is being created to make DRDO more efficient.
Karan M wrote:it takes a decade for drdo to train an engineer (vk saraswat estimate) due to indian educational system limitations. he is 35 by then adding another 2-3 years for mtech. how can that guy in anyway compare to a 65 year old? or even a 50 year old in terms of domain knowledge?
If you really think that oldies will be very useful, then maybe you should be asking for increasing the retirement age instead of keep giving extensions.
I don't agree with you on this.
But, I do agree with you on some points:
a) the upward mobility should be based on merit rather than merely seniority.
b) there should be reforms in education system.
Karan M wrote:we need enough seniors to hand hold the juniors and run some of these programs which require really experienced folks.
All the grooming is supposed to happen before the retirement time. Extensions should be an exception, not a norm.
Karan M wrote:rest of your post is just media quotations so i'll pass. looks like you rely purely on media messaging and have no interaction with the folks who work in these domains to understand their staffing issues. and if you rely on the media, its going to be a mess.
It is media reports about Govt policy that the oldies will not be giving extensions. Those reports are 2 months old. The report quotes an internal survey which apparently revealed that the extensions to the oldies are leading to youngsters taking VRS. So, the Govt seems to have decided that extensions will not be given anymore. This seems to be the consistent policy of the Govt. I don't see why there is even surprise about this when the Govt seems to have clearly spelled out its policy on the issue and is carrying it forth.
I personally like this approach and I think the Govt should be steadfast on this policy regardless of the pressure.
I really think the Modi govt's exceptional PR skills is still stuck in election mode. The CG episode, the ISRO chief episode and now this. There is this perennial hurry to showcase achievements. The CG's wonderful achievement was so badly mismanaged that it should be made into a case study! Why not take the time to carefully draft press releases and make the release only after ensuring that everything is in place? For example, wait for the CG ship to return, ask the experts to brainstorm on any adverse questions that might be asked, and then issue the shortest press-release required! Instead, a hurried and boisterous press release is published within hours of the operation. Inevitably, it was taken to the dogs by the media, which ultimately led to a national achievement (which it truly was at many levels) into something that can be possibly used against us! The DM had to say, "circumstantial evidences point to", "if you want, you can question the CG ship's crew", etc. etc. An internal investigation has to be launched!!!!
The same goes for this episode! No matter how meritorious the decision was, couldn't they wait for an acknowledgement from the DM, the MoD spokesperson, and Dr. Chander before going public! And why on earth does such a letter have to be put up on any website at any time?!!!!
Kongi party and some of the journos have consistently taken a pro-Baki stand. Diggy had released a book which claimed that that 26/11 was an RSS conspiracy. So, I don't see how this boat episode has anything to do with good or bad PR of Modi Govt. Regardless of what CG did or did not do, these pro-Baki elements would have still taken pro-Baki stand.
If anything, that episode only shows one thing: Modi Govt is going to strengthen the institutions. Coast Guard was used to take the lead on Boat episode because its the coast guard's job to do it.
But, I do believe that Modi govt has failed in cleaning up the media and opening up to people.
I am not bothered about criticism against Govt or Modi. I am actually surprised that people are not cheering a good policy decision. If good policies are criticized, then the Govts will obviously continue with the same old bad policies which will lead to the same 'desperate' conditions.