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Project 75I - It Begins

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astal
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby astal » 11 Aug 2017 21:29

Rakesh Saar,
Actually the article talks about cost per tonnage. Weight in this case is highly correlated with capabilities. The size of the batteries increases silent operation time. The weapons load-out is also greater.

I think that the message to the bean counters is that in the case of this tender, L1 is not the right approach. They need to look at cost as a function of capability. Otherwise the French as usual will do their bait and switch like they did with Rafale and Scorpene. I hope the Navy can craft a suitable criteria set based on points and MOD procurement babus look at cost vs capabilities. From what it available it seems like Soryu is a formidable boat. Building and operating it will not only directly provide the Navy with enhanced capabilities but also positively contribute to India's nuclear sub effort.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 11 Aug 2017 22:29

astal, I guess I missed that part. I was looking at overall cost. Please advise / elaborate more on cost per tonnage. thank you.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Aug 2017 23:03

Philip wrote:The current gold std. in silence of conventional boats is the venerable Kilo 636.3,of which Russia is acquiring/building another 12 at the mouth-watering price of around $300M a boat.


:rotfl:

Current Gold platinum silver all standards for accidents are russian boats. They blow up standing in pier while loading.

Kursk.... Another accidents like

Our Schuka B had fire accident too.

How come same navy operates Shishumar German subs and there is no accidents? Answer = inherent russian patheticness incompetence.

Kilos are only 75 days availability per year vs German 340 days availability.

Russian torpedoes are also rejected now for Aridaman as they are too unstable / primitive and dangerous to their own boats.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 11 Aug 2017 23:06

Karthik S wrote:I'd choose Japanese equipment over others any day. Also, we can leverage on this deal immensely in terms of infra development, HSR, highways in NE or industrial corridors.


Also efficient Japanese would have built good library of cheen ships and subs, they would upload those too on Soryu for our Navy too. 8)

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 12 Aug 2017 14:14

Yes,our Kilos are nearing 3 decades of superb service! Undergoing second refits-unheard of.Try running a 30 yr old car and see what happens,esp. if St.Anthony denies you new batteries and you have to cannibalise them from other subs.The SR tragedy was not a loss at sea due to systems malfunction,etc., but due to faulty procedure in loading weapons onto the sub.
Failure by the then govt. to see that spars/support for the sub fleet was the main cause for the mishaps and the then CNS resigned in protest.
What happened at a previous US-India naval exercise when an IN Kilo "sank" a USN Los Angeles N-boat? No one has denigrated the U-boats,but why have we until recently refused to exercise our Kilos with other navies? The boat is so successful that Russia is acquiring,building another 12,Vietnam has just got 6 -built in record time at just $300M a boat too and there are other export deals in the offing.

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... lear-14473
Dave Majumdar
December 1, 2015
The Indian media is claiming that one of New Delhi’s Russian-built Kilo-class diesel-electric attack submarines managed to “sink” a nuclear-powered U.S. Navy Los Angeles-class attack submarine during exercises in October.

The Indian submarine INS Sindhudhvaj (S56) allegedly “killed” USS City of Corpus Christi (SSN 705) during an exercise called Malabar that is held annually between India, Japan and the United States. According to the Indians, the submarines were assigned to track each other down in the Bay of Bengal. “The way it happens is that the Sindhudhvaj recorded the Hydrophonic Effect (HE) - simply put, underwater noise - of the nuclear powered submarine and managed to positively identify it before locking on to it. Being an exercise what did not happen was the firing,” an Indian naval officer told India Today. The Indian vessel then “sank” USS City of Corpus Christi using 533mm torpedoes.


Some xcpts:
The Kilo-Class Submarine: Why Russia's Enemies Fear "The Black Hole"
Kyle Mizokami is a defense and national security writer based in San Francisco who has appeared in the Diplomat, Foreign Policy, War is Boring and the Daily Beast. In 2009 he cofounded the defense and security blog Japan Security Watch. You can follow him on Twitter: @KyleMizokami.

The mainstay of the Russian Navy’s conventionally powered fleet are Project 877–class submarines, known as the Kilo class to NATO and the West. Nicknamed the “Black Hole” submarine by the U.S. Navy, the Improved Kilos are extremely quiet. The class has been built more or less continuously for thirty years, a testament to their effectiveness at sea.

A lot of silencing went into the Kilos. The hull is described as having the approximate shape of a drop of water and greatly reducing water resistance over older, World War II–era submarine designs. The propulsion plant is isolated on a rubber base so it doesn’t touch the hull, preventing vibrations from turning into noise that can be heard outside the boat. The ship has a rubbery anechoic coating to deaden noise emanating from the submarine, which occasionally gives the submarines a blocky appearance noticeable in photographs. The air regeneration system can keep the crew supplied with oxygen for up to 260 hours, giving the ship almost two weeks’ worth of underwater endurance.


The 636.3 class was an all-around upgrade. The dimensions of the submarine are essentially the same, but the bow has been reshaped to improve hydrodynamic flow. It features improved quietness due to further isolation of the machinery, moving other machinery to areas where they would make less noise. The submarine also has 25 percent greater range than previous versions. Major sonar systems however are largely the same as in the original Kilo class.

One major improvement of the 636.3 class is the ability to launch Kalibur cruise missiles. Kalibur (the export version is known as Klub) is a versatile class of missile with land-attack, antiship, and antisubmarine warfare versions. In December 2016, the Russian submarine Rostov-on-Don launched Kalibur land-attack missiles against Islamic State.


Vietnam bought six 636.3 boats, with five so far delivered, as the nucleus of an anti-access/area denial force against its traditional enemy, China. The two countries have a history of mutual hostility, currently stoked by Chinese oil drilling in a contested Exclusive Economic Zone and competing claims in the South China Sea. Vietnam purchased six submarines for an estimated $1.8 billion dollars—a real bargain.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 12 Aug 2017 14:38

Two articles to look at in the search for our P-75I.

OZ's Shortfin Barracuda may be too large -analysis.The Soryu is in the same size class and will suffer the same limitations.The IN's search appears to be for a sub 25% lesser in size,around 3000t+,becos we are to build a fleet of 6+ SSNs too.
http://gentleseas.blogspot.in/2015/08/w ... e-too.html

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... lthy-17964
Russia's Next Submarines Will Be Small, Super Stealthy and Multirole?

Smaller dedicated task subs instead of larger "jack of all.." ones.More lethal attack subs .Some talk of Russia resurrecting the Alfa sub concept.They were the fastest subs ever built,hulls entirely out of titanium,why their high cost led to the Akula class instead.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 12 Aug 2017 15:26

Strange these procedural mistakes never happen on German OR other west been subs, but only russian ones.

Since accident IN doesn't want russian torpedoes on Aridaman also.

I think I detect fear and panic in russian patriots that if people see all 3 Japanese, french & German subs faultlessly, then russian patheticness will stand exposed.

Hence this writhing like fish without water at Soryu possibility. Khalbali much gayi hai!!!

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_P » 12 Aug 2017 17:41

Philip wrote:Some talk of Russia resurrecting the Alfa sub concept.They were the fastest subs ever built..


And the loudest.. (and practically deaf) at those speeds.

Quiet a big disadvantage in a game where stealth is the big stick.

Besides they were a maintenance nightmare since the metallurgy with titanium was not as advanced nor were the automated on-board systems (made necessary by the fewer crew complement - which was forced by the smaller size ) as reliable as they are now.

Titanium has it's advantages - lighter, low-magnetic, corrosion-resistant but the disadvantages of extremely high cost, more brittleness over diving cycles etc far outweighed them at the time.. and may do so even today.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 12 Aug 2017 18:49

Actually if one is not hung up on the well-being of russia and looks from the angle of Bharatvarsh's self interest, extra large, more range and high availability LiOn run Soryu will give us option for special forces and missiles, while without baggage and expensiveness of nuclear subs. Imagine a super silent battery run Soryu unloading special forces near enemy's coast. Then unleashing missile attack while any has no clue where it is. It disappears 450 meter below out of enemy torpedoes and subs.
________________________--__-

Cross posting from Armour thread:

Gyan wrote:T-90 breaks down in the host nation, in moderate climate, the breakdown is evidently severe & tank cannot be repaired. Not one but Both the tanks break down, these would be obviously the best tanks & not over used ones. But no chest beating in media. Hail Import lobby for its efficiency.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 13 Aug 2017 18:21

:x

No takers for construction of India’s Next Generation of Nuclear Submarines

http://defenceupdate.in/no-takers-for-c ... rines/amp/

While the Indian Navy badly needs nuclear submarines to bolster its strength underwater as well as replace ailing fleet, it is not finding any builders to take up the project. It should be recalled that the Union government announced that six nuclear submarines would be built, following clearance given by the Cabinet committee on security.

The project was estimated to cost Rs 50,000 crore and would have given a boost to the ailing shipyard. The submarines were to be designed by navy’s Directorate of Naval Design. Even the state-owned Hindustan Shipyard said that it will not build nuclear submarine in its yard. “We will not build any nuclear submarine for the Indian Navy,” said chairman and managing director of Hindustan Shipyard Limited Rear Admiral (retired) LV Sharatbabu.

He refused to elaborate further. Even Reliance Defence and Engineering is not coming forward to develop its shipyard at Rambilli village in the district, though the company had signed a MoU with the state government during partnership summit here in 2016.It should be noted that the Reliance Defence and Engineering has proposed to build nuclear submarines and much needed aircraft carriers for the Indian Navy in association with Russian companies.

“They are yet to come forward to take up the project. The government has already issued a GO paving the way for allotment of land,” said general manager of District Industries Centre A Ramalingewara Rao.Indian Navy has 13 conventional submarines and two nuclear powered submarines-INS Chakra taken on lease from Russia in 2012 and INS Arihant which was de-commissioned quietly in October last year.

Defence sources said half of the conventional submarines are aged and ready for medium refit. Indian Navy badly needs more submarines to counter the presence of Chinese submarines in the Indian Ocean. Chinese submarines came close to Indian waters six times during the last few years.


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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Karthik S » 13 Aug 2017 18:25

Can state owned entities say NO to the government? What could be the reason for the refusal, is it financial, technical or political?

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby abhik » 13 Aug 2017 18:55

The article is a confused mess, better to wait for a more credible DDM source.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Aug 2017 14:06

Crossposting from Newbie thread:

There was video on brf showing a tug pulling aircraft carrier kuznetzov.

Has there been any example of underwater tugs for submarines? As ssk ranges are short, I was thinking to use underwater tugs pulling Scorpene subs to Indo-China Pacific ON THE LINES OF OUR OSA MISSILE BOATS TUGGED TO KARACHI HARBOUR DUE TO THEIR SHORT RANGE.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby prasannasimha » 14 Aug 2017 14:10

Tug pulling a submarine means you are declaring its position so in essence it is useless and a boat would do just as well !

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Aug 2017 14:12

I meant an underwater tug, not surface tug.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 14 Aug 2017 22:09

Manish-ji: it is best to let the sub travel under her own power. An underwater tug (is there such a thing?) could be noisy and easily cause the boat to be detected.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby arvin » 14 Aug 2017 23:11

Manish_Sharma wrote:Crossposting from Newbie thread:

There was video on brf showing a tug pulling aircraft carrier kuznetzov.

Has there been any example of underwater tugs for submarines? As ssk ranges are short, I was thinking to use underwater tugs pulling Scorpene subs to Indo-China Pacific ON THE LINES OF OUR OSA MISSILE BOATS TUGGED TO KARACHI HARBOUR DUE TO THEIR SHORT RANGE.


Soryu may fill in the above role on its own power.
Scorpene and HDW may be used for paki coastal duty.
Natasha may provide escort services to IAC.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 14 Aug 2017 23:19

Rakesh Saar it was just an idea that popped remembering our Osa boats tugged to Karachi due to short legs. I asked and search google mamaa if underwater submarine tugs exist or ever experimented. You are right they aren't.

So Soryu it has to be as Arvin Saar says.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 15 Aug 2017 02:06

Manish-ji: The more I read up on the Soryu Class, I do not know which other boat can exceed what the IN is expecting in Project 75I.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby arvin » 20 Aug 2017 15:07

Interesting data regarding lead acid battery and Lion battery for Soryu subs.
If power density is indeed 6 times as claimed in the article, it will have hugh implications on range. We can even upgrade our other subs to Li ion and simply bypass AIP.
They are putting in new gensets and snorkeling systems.

http://gentleseas.blogspot.in/2017/08/i ... k.html?m=1

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 20 Aug 2017 17:13

Soryu tech transfer difficult but not impossible:



Pros and cons:


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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 20 Aug 2017 18:13

The IN from its reqs. wants a sub around 3000+t,not 4000t.The larger conv. subs are for navies who cannot acquire N-subs with their enormous capability but hope that these "pretenders" can suffice.The simple truth is that they cannot .An N-sub with 100 days
endurance,which can circumnavigate the world
UW,dive to 600m+,carry 40-80 missiles,torpedoes,etc.,UUVs,spl forces modules,
far outclass any conv. boat xcpt in one area,littoral waters-shallow water ops where a smaller diesel/
AIP boat is quieter.

The IN which plans to operate both N-boats and conv.AIP subs , want the best of both.Little point in
emulating Japan or Oz.We will have in our sub fleet Akula SSGNs,Arihant SSBNs and an SSN class too.Smaller silent conv.AIP subs for the
littorals but with Klub/Kalibir,BMos,Nirbhay and
Shkval capabilities though in smaller payloads more affordable than an any "obese" conv.
boat,would complement the N-boats.Also
remember that an N-boat,SSN, is the best boat to
track and countrr an enemy SSBN.Read the
exploits of both sides in the Cold War underwater
great game.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 20 Aug 2017 18:41

I've had lengthy discussions with veteran submariners,multi-starred ones too,reg. AIP subs,systems,virtues/drawbacks of each system.
The conclusion was that the only real AIP system is an N-reactor! Why despite littoral warfare drawbacks ( which it hopes stealthy UUVs will resolve) the US wants only N-subs. Just recall the massed Tomahawk attacks in recent conflicts by US N- subs.No AIP boat can match that strike capability.

PS: Monday.
The problem affecting countries like India,even Russia,is that only the US can afford an all nuclear sub fleet.Geography also requires Russia to possess smaller conventional boats for its restricted/shallow waters like the Baltics,Black Sea/Meditt.etc. Its double-hulled Kilos have been found to be ideal boats for green/brown duties as well as some limited blue-water ops. thanks to the latest Kalibir land attack missiles. These boats come in at just half the cost of a Western boat,very affordable for developing nations like Vietnam-who recently acquired 6 fr just $300M a boat,and are being completed from keel to launch in just two years time too. Boats like these allow major navies such as the IN to possess larger numbers at affordable costs while they build up their N-boat capability steadily.
Last edited by Philip on 21 Aug 2017 14:06, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby kit » 20 Aug 2017 19:28

Philip wrote:I've had lengthy discussions with veteran submariners,multi-starred ones too,reg. AIP subs,systems,virtues/drawbacks of each system.
The conclusion was the only real AIP system is an N-reactor! Why despite littoral warfare drawbacks ( which it hopes stealthy UUVs will resolve)the US wants only N-subs. Just recall the massed Tomahawk attacks in recent conflicts by US N- subs.No AIP boat can match that strike capability.


true . the nuke reactor is the best AIP. India would need a mix of both nuclear boomers and hunter killer SSK s that can take the fight to the India China Sea.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 21 Aug 2017 20:02

Philip wrote:The IN from its reqs. wants a sub around 3000+t,not 4000t.


You are making arguments like this because this 4000 ton sub is Japanese not russian.

Otherwise why are you advocating russian amur submarine of 1000 tons? Because it's russian you can ignore IN specification of 3000 tons contemptuously.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby YashG » 22 Aug 2017 02:27

Li-ion batteries have very high energy carrying density compared to lead batteries - but this is a double edged sword.
Due to the high energy density of Li-Ion batteries they also misbehave ( the burning mobiles or laptops).

Otherwise very high desnity batteries are available in commercial marekts - tesla uses a type of battery bed consisting of small li-ion cells - accessing that tech must be possible.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby kit » 22 Aug 2017 02:48

YashG wrote:Li-ion batteries have very high energy carrying density compared to lead batteries - but this is a double edged sword.
Due to the high energy density of Li-Ion batteries they also misbehave ( the burning mobiles or laptops).

Otherwise very high desnity batteries are available in commercial marekts - tesla uses a type of battery bed consisting of small li-ion cells - accessing that tech must be possible.



You just need to drive a Tesla dude .. you will be calling for Soryu :mrgreen:

Its quite remarkable how small the Tesla motors can be and the torque it generates is mind boggling . just experience it once and scale that a thousand fold , you can imagine what that sub can do !!

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Cain Marko » 22 Aug 2017 10:32

^ damn 300 ft/lb torque is mindblowing - we are getting into ninja territory here

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 22 Aug 2017 11:24

My arguments/views are objective and based upon facts ,nothing to do with Russian interests at all.The Soryu is a large,would-be N-sub,a "pretender" that cannot compete with an N-sub at any level.The larger you make an conv. sub,and stuff it with a larger weaponload,etc.,the higher would be its power req.size of plant and greater its noise factor. Moreover, a nuclear reactor can provide the sub with far more power than any dieseil/AIP boat,allowing ti to dive deeper and travel faster ,around 10kts. at least UW,not to mention around 3-4 times the weaponload. The Japanese after WW2 and the N-strikes against it,are by doctrine opposed to possessing N-weapons.Even N-power has its share of critics and after Fukushima,there is great anxiety amongst the population about N-power in any form. Given the huge waters of the Pacific and southern seas,the Japanese navy requires boats with a long endurance to suit their naval doctrine. The IN does not have any qualms about possessing N-boats and do not require conv. boats trying to duplicate the performance of N-boats.We will have at least 2 Akula2/3 SSGNs,plus at least 6 SSNs later on.SSBNs are part of the strat. deterrent and thus cannot be included in conventional UW warfare .Apart from this at least 18+ conventional AIP subs will/should be in service with the IN My suggestion is to go in for a new line of German U-boats to replace the U-209s,another line of the latest Ru conv.boats to replace the Kilos (going on 30+ yrs.+ of service!),and perhaps a few more Scorpenes. This way we would possess the best conv. sub-tech of the East and West.Come 2030,we can then take the best features of the 3 sub types and design our own sub to meet our requirements.

However,once we start using more N-subs,one is sure that the IN will demand more of them other than for littoral warfare simply because of their outstanding capabilities which outclass any conv. sub. Once rectors are built in series and eqpt. components and weapons are standardised,costs will come down significantly.The fact that a sub's N-reactor can be built to last the lifetime of the sub is an added advantage.No return to port to refuel,etc.like a diesel boat.The IN possessing a large fleet of both SSGNs and SSNs,would be able to have a permanent v.capable UW sub force in the waters of the ICS-Pacific,to act as a forward intel/strike force monitoring the PLAN in its backyard.
As mentioned before,talk to In submariners and get their views as I have done if you can.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 23 Aug 2017 04:19

Manish-ji: Abe Saar is coming in September...

Shinzo Abe visit: India, Japan to forge closer defence ties
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... es/820018/

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 23 Aug 2017 04:21

Submarine deal about to materialize
http://i-hls.com/archives/78038

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 24 Aug 2017 11:49

This xcpt. from an article on Ru subs may partly explain why the RuN continues to build Kilo variants of a sub design that is now 30+ yrs old. The design has been found very successful and is still being exported to many navies.One would've thought that AIP subs would give a conventional boat an edge over a non-AIP boat,increasing its UW endurance for around another 10-15 days. This xcpt. alleges that US sub experience has found that AIP boats are actually noisier than non-AIP boats.We have sev. AIP systems like fuel-cell,MESMA,Stirling engine and dev. on a fuel recovery system for Ru boats.Li-ion advanced batteries another phase in AIP dev.Read on.

The Russians are responding to the U.S. Navy discovering that, given current sensor (sonar, magnetic, heat, chemical) technology it is possible to detect very quiet submerged diesel-electric sub. This includes the new ones using AIP (Air-Independent Propulsion) systems that allow diesel-electric sub to stay under water, silently, for several weeks at a time. Since 2000 the United States has done a lot of work on improving systems used to detect submerged subs. This included lots of tests on diesel electric and AIP subs that led to many small tweaks to existing sensors on subs and surface ships. AIP boats, in particular, were found to have many vulnerabilities. The AIP technology generated more noise and heat than just using batteries for underwater propulsion. The more the U.S. studied AIP subs in operation the more ways they found these subs could be detected. The passive (listen only) sonar systems in the new Virginia class SSNs (nuclear attack sub) were tweaked considerably to better find diesel-electric and AIP boats. The sensors on the Virginia are also among the best (if not the best) available for finding surface ships or other nuclear subs. But it depended on how noisy the other ships were. Diesel-electric subs operating submerged using battery power are theoretically the quietest. But the older a sub gets the more components become noisy and some diesel-electric sub designs are simply quieter. Even the older and noisier diesel-electric subs tend to be quieter than most nuclear subs, which have to run pumps at all times to circulate cooler water around the hot nuclear reactors. The most recent nuclear sub designs have found more ways to conceal the pump noise along with noise in general. Add that to more effective noise detecting sonar and you have a Western edge that Russia was getting close to matching when the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Before 1991 the Russians had managed to steal a lot of the silencing tech and smuggle in special manufacturing equipment to create the quieter components. But all that ended in the 1990s and all the Russians had left were less than a dozen “quiet” nuclear subs that had been completed by 1991. After that Western, especially American, silencing and sensor tech continued to improve, although not as fast as during the Cold War.


S'pore's German U-boats which could be a contender for the P-75I tender.
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsub ... 70613.aspx
June 13, 2017: In early 2017 the Republic of Singapore Navy (RSN) announced that it has ordered two more Type 218SG submarines from a German firm. The first two were ordered in 2013 and will be delivered in 2021 and 2022. The two additional boats are expected to be in service by 2025. The growing threat from China is a major reason for ordering two more of these subs.

The Type 218SG is a variant of the Type 216 that the manufacturer proposed in 2012. A Type 218SG is 70 meters (230 feet) long, displaces 1,800 tons on the surface, has AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) and a lot of electronics built in Singapore and customized for local conditions. These boats are highly automated and thus require a crew of only 28. There are also modifications to improve maneuverability in the shallow waters common in areas adjacent to Singapore. AIP (underwater) endurance is up to 25-30 days and total endurance as much as 80 days. Other modifications make the subs easier to maintain and upgrade. Armament consists of eight forward firing 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tubes and 18 torpedoes or anti-ship missiles. Mines can also be carried. These boats will cost at least $900 million each :eek: and this includes training and tech support.

Manish_Sharma
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Manish_Sharma » 24 Aug 2017 18:51

Rakesh wrote:Manish-ji: Abe Saar is coming in September...

Shinzo Abe visit: India, Japan to forge closer defence ties
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... es/820018/


YooooooooHooooooo
:D

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/thaimili ... japan/amp/

Feast for you Admiral !

Karthik S
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Karthik S » 24 Aug 2017 18:57

Sign the damn deal! it takes 4 years from start to commissioning, that's good timeline as well. Need to build 3 in parallel so that all 6 can be inducted in 8 years.

arvin
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby arvin » 24 Aug 2017 20:21

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Rakesh wrote:Manish-ji: Abe Saar is coming in September...

Shinzo Abe visit: India, Japan to forge closer defence ties
http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... es/820018/


YooooooooHooooooo
:D

https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/thaimili ... japan/amp/

Feast for you Admiral !


From the pics looks like Soryu like the scorpene has a 'top loading' mechanism to load torpedos and harpoon/exocet anti ship missiles. Would like to be corrected, but it seems Amur and all other contenders have a 'front loading' horizontal style loading for weapons. Former would be more conveinent since it would be using gravity and is much above the water level.

Rakesh
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Rakesh » 24 Aug 2017 23:14

Manish_Sharma wrote:https://www.google.co.in/amp/s/thaimilitaryandasianregion.wordpress.com/2016/03/03/soryu-class-submarines-japan/amp/

Feast for you Admiral !

Manish-ji: You found the gold mine! Wow. Thank you!!!

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Cybaru » 25 Aug 2017 00:53

If we add two/three more Akula class, continue to add one arhiant class every 2-3 years, stabilize on 9 scropene (3 with AIP) and 9 new class (soryu) IN will be quite powerful for a long time. The Li-ION boats will be interesting. Every 10 years or so with advancement in tech, the boats will get a huge bump in range as they go in for a refit.

Pratyush
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Pratyush » 25 Aug 2017 08:43

Is there a reason why the Kalvari cannot be fitted with Li On batteries instead if the normal lead acid battery. Thereby increasing subsurface performance.

arvin
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby arvin » 25 Aug 2017 12:06

why do cesearean on a virgin...

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 25 Aug 2017 13:35

3-4 Akulas will make acquiring Soryus unnecessary. Ideally at least 4 Akulas should be acquired,since their lease/acquisition cost is very attractive when compared with a large AIP boat.These boats cost almost $1B,when an Akula,which is 4-5 times larger and carries more than double the weaponload costs only around $1.5B max.Even cheaper would be acquiring Amur/Lada subs to replace Kilos which would cost around $400M at the most.We'd be able to get atr least two of this class for just one Soryu,or U-216S that SPore is getting.Extending the Scorpene run for upgraded boats would seem an answer,but the Scorpene data leak in Oz has had a devastating effect on the sub's future

Indo-Japanese def. relationship should be based upon a jt. strategy rather than simply buying one's milware.Perhaps buying a few US-2s for the IN/CG may suffice as a gesture,as we need amphibs and could stretch the budget to buy these v.costly birds.


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