Project 75I - It Begins

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kmc_chacko
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby kmc_chacko » 10 Nov 2014 08:13

Thakur_B wrote:
Kakkaji wrote:Who will bag the Rs 50,000-crore order for six submarines? It's a four-horse race

Detailed article about the various contenders and their prospects for bagging this order.


From the article:-
Ironically, one of the seven shipyards shortlisted for this order, Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL), isn't quite enthused about this order and almost sees it as a distraction. That may be because GSL has been preparing to build mine countermeasures vessels, or MCMVs, which are ships designed to locate and destroy mines.

GSL chairman Shekhar Mital is clear about his goals when he says: "Since 2005, GSL has been preparing to be a manufacturer of minesweepers. Indian Navy now has only four or five old minesweepers and is in need of new vessels. GSL was nominated for this and Rs 300 crore has been spent for modernization and we are waiting for MCMV orders. For that reason, we will not be able to look at submarines." So far, GSL has specialised in offshore patrol vessels.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst


The man's got a point. Public sector yard or not, the sunk costs need to be recovered before more money is sunk in.


Navy should have given approval for 6 nos rather than waiting for competition.

Singha
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Singha » 10 Nov 2014 12:56

>> Since 2005, GSL has been preparing to be a manufacturer of minesweepers.

:rotfl: thats a long wait...9 years already. and the kangnam deal just got shitcanned on allegations of middlemen.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby alexis » 10 Nov 2014 16:42

Kakkaji wrote:Who will bag the Rs 50,000-crore order for six submarines? It's a four-horse race

Detailed article about the various contenders and their prospects for bagging this order.


Too many errors in the report: names wrong, MESMA for Indian scorpenes etc

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby dinesha » 14 Dec 2014 19:16

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
I think an Eastern design will be selected for Project 75I linked to domestic production of SSNs plus direct lease of more SSNs.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Will » 14 Dec 2014 19:58

The survey of the shipyards was supposed to get over within 6-8 weeks. Its 6 weeks. Any hope of hearing something by early Jan or is it going to be business as usual and this task to will drag on for months if not years :(

Don't expect to hear much on the SSN project. That will be as secret as the ATV project. Construction of 6 SSNs was supposed to be cleared during the DAC that cleared the P-75I. No one is going to say if it was cleared or not.

Expect heavy Russian involvement again in this project. For that simple reason expect the P-75 I to go to the Russians and cost escalations every couple of years to pay for the SSN help. The main tech hurdle in the SSN project is going to be to build a more powerful reactor as SSN's need to be faster. L&T already had a tie up with the Russians for the Amur's.

There were rumours that the SSN would be based on the French Barracuda class. Was that the reason for the high cost of Scorpenes?

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby prahaar » 14 Dec 2014 21:00

What is the reason for SSN requiring a larger reactor than SSBN? I agree that SSNs need to be faster than SSBN, but they also need to carry less payload. A true-blue SSBN carries around minimum 12 ICBMs compared to 30 torpedoes for SSNs at the maximum. Also, SSBNs need to support a longer patrol period compared to SSNs (consequently more supplies). If we compare these parameters, overall, should these two factors not balance out each other?

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Kakkaji » 31 Dec 2014 00:04

BHEL, HSL, Midhani join hands for indigenous submarine project

NEW DELHI: State-owned BHEL has joined hands with Midhani and HSL to set up a consortium that will build submarines indigenously and bid for a Navy project.

"The consortium, comprising BHEL, Mishra Dhatu Nigam Ltd (Midhani) and Hindustan Shipyards Ltd (HSL), will jointly stake claim with the Ministry of Defence for being considered as a prospective bidder for a proposed project of the Indian Navy for building six submarines at an Indian shipyard," BHEL said in a statement.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Kakkaji » 01 Jan 2015 05:26

This PSU combo should be asked to focus on building the SSNs. The P-75I should be given to L&T.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Pratyush » 01 Jan 2015 09:10

The interesting part is that the domestic consortium is not having any foreign partner at this stage. While it would be premature for me to comment what it may do 6 months from now. Am hopeful that the foreign partnership will not happen.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Will » 01 Jan 2015 09:20

Shipyard evaluations were supposed to have been completed by now. Has this been done or is it just talk and business as usual where deadlines have no meaning in our setup.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby krishnan » 01 Jan 2015 09:53

Pratyush wrote:The interesting part is that the domestic consortium is not having any foreign partner at this stage. While it would be premature for me to comment what it may do 6 months from now. Am hopeful that the foreign partnership will not happen.


probably roped in as consultants. We can get some people who have quit or lost jobs, hire them. Get their help

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby chackojoseph » 01 Jan 2015 10:31

Similar consortium's came up for arty deal. But no one took them seriously. You never know if Naval case might be different. They have a lot of faith in DPSU's.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Yagnasri » 01 Jan 2015 10:56

chackojoseph wrote:Similar consortium's came up for arty deal. But no one took them seriously. You never know if Naval case might be different. They have a lot of faith in DPSU's.


and did well also. Navy has great record of development and production. How it improves further and further.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Will » 09 Mar 2015 18:17


Ankit Desai
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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Ankit Desai » 09 Mar 2015 19:08

Will wrote:http://bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/newsrf.php?newsid=21761

How true?


It didn't award contract to L&T and Pipava yet. but has recognized two out of three private shipyards (ABG is third) to award contract. During contract awarding process MoD will award any one out of two qualified shipyard.

But relatively fast start if true.

-Ankit

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby shaun » 10 Mar 2015 08:14

my estimated guess , two builders will get 50:50 order to ramp up production .

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby JTull » 10 Mar 2015 12:15

Shaun wrote:my estimated guess , two builders will get 50:50 order to ramp up production .


That's the best way to build capability.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Kartik » 10 Mar 2015 12:27

Isn't anyone curious as to why Reliance suddenly went and bought a stake in Pipavav, just a few days before this shortlisting of private shipyards for the P-75I submarine project came out? It's a little too much to be a coincidence. Obvious inside information on this shortlisting..

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Indranil » 10 Mar 2015 12:29

^^^ So, I was not alone in thinking about that.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 10 Mar 2015 14:09

A report last yr. about the two shipyards,both capable of building the subs was done allegedly by Rubin of Russia.It rated the L&T yard better because of the trained tech manpower available who could easily absorb the tech transferred. L&T has a proven record of sub component building (ATV project) while Pip hasn't any worthwhile experience. With CSL busy with the carrier construction,IAC-1 and after that IAC-2 (?),the 4 amphibs could be built at Pip or split with Cochin.

It is fascinating watching Reliance desperate to get a slice of the defence pie by buying up companies with capability.The most audacious gambit by it was to build the Rafale when it hasn't even flown a paper plane!

In my opinion,it's going to be a straight fight between the Germans and Russians.The French have lost out with their shoddy support for the Scorpenes,which by the time they arrive,will be design-wise,rather long in the tooth compared with other newer designs. In the final decision,the availability of BMos aboard the sub and willingness to adopt an Indian AIP module may clinch the deal. The Germans cannot offer us a multi-role missile like the BMos,or even Klub for that matter and 100kt+ super-cavitating torpedoes like Shkval. The IN may also prefer much commonality aboard the P-75I and the N-subs being built,eqpt,weaponry,sensors,etc.It would make it easier for training crews,shuffling crews,etc.

A German sub could also find favour from the fact that we've been operating 4 U-209s successfully.Several years ago,when HDW was cleared of wrongdoing,one suggested immediately acquiring extra U-boats and reviving the sub-building facility at MDL.had we done that,we would not be in the crisis we're in right now.That proposal seems to have been stung by a Scorpene! The only Q about German U-boats is the weaponry that they will bring with them. They do not have any supersonic cruise missile available and will have to depend upon the Scandinavians or French. The cost of that when compared with BMos will also be a factor. We would also need a larger design than the current U-boats,the 212/214s. A most interesting contest awaits us.

What is noteworthy is the speed with which the GOI/MOD has taken a decision to shortlist the two yards.Let's hope a decision can be made by the year end.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Ankit Desai » 10 Mar 2015 17:34

Kartik wrote:Isn't anyone curious as to why Reliance suddenly went and bought a stake in Pipavav, just a few days before this shortlisting of private shipyards for the P-75I submarine project came out? It's a little too much to be a coincidence. Obvious inside information on this shortlisting..


Even Mahindra and L&T have also shown interest to acquire Piapavav Defence.

Apart from Mahindra, two other corporate majors, including L&T, were in the race to buy stake in Pipavav

-Ankit

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Singha » 10 Mar 2015 17:40

I hope rubin does not try to palm off its failed 877 Lada class sub design. even RuN has rejected it after tests.
http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/en/projects/nav ... oject_677/

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby nits » 10 Mar 2015 18:23

Philip wrote:
It is fascinating watching Reliance desperate to get a slice of the defence pie by buying up companies with capability.The most audacious gambit by it was to build the Rafale when it hasn't even flown a paper plane!


Sir Minor Nitpick; Rafel has partnership with Reliance ( Mukesh); and Pipavav is acquired by Reliance ADAG ( Anil); also reliance ADAG has just acquired 26% stake "as of now" which is not a controlling stack

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Cosmo_R » 10 Mar 2015 19:59

Singha wrote:I hope rubin does not try to palm off its failed 877 Lada class sub design. even RuN has rejected it after tests.
http://www.ckb-rubin.ru/en/projects/nav ... oject_677/


They are offering the 977 Dala MKI so we can rest easy.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby shaun » 10 Mar 2015 22:32

^^^^
:rotfl: just awesome :rotfl:

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 11 Mar 2015 12:22

Latest on Lada/Amur construction in Russia for the RuN.Contrary to some,the sub has not been rejected,but improvements after trials of the lead boat.One major improvement is a much reduced crew due to extensive automation.BMos equipped Amurs were shown in earlier def. shows,but since the IN has no sub available,the focus is now upon developing BMos-M which can be fired from std. tubes. This would however require a larger space for torpedoes,missiles,etc. forward,perhaps a sub with a mix of around 24+ weapons.The design with a silo complex aft of the sail is still available. The Lada/Amur comes with a NHPP scope,and improved sonars,quieting,engines,combat system,displays,etc.

The lead ship of the class, named the Sankt Peterburg, was launched in October 2004 and began sea trials in November 2005. The submarine was transferred to the Russian Navy in April 2010.[1] Another two vessels are under construction at the Admiralty Shipyard with plans to launch four to six submarines by 2015. The Russian Navy has set out a requirement for a total of eight Lada class submarines


Here are some details of the new German U-218 class sub,probably its main contender.http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... pe-218.htm
HDW Class 218 / Type 216 ‘Concept Submarine’

http://defense-update.com/20131205_sing ... P_qn8v9ljo
What is Type 218SG?

At the recent IMDEX naval expo in Singapore TKMS submarine branch Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW) displayed models of its newly released Type 216 ‘concept submarine’. It is likely that the Singaporean Type 218SG will be a derivative based on this new class. In the past HDW extended the capacity of former models – for example, the Type 209 grew over the years from the basic 1000 tons submerged displacement to 1500, 1700, 1900 and even 2,300 tons (submerged displacement of the Type 800 Dolphin class).

Building upon a baseline platform of 4,000 ton displacement, HDW’s Type 216 is designed to be scaled up or down, thus better matching the requirements of navies seeking large, ocean going AIP-augmented diesel-electric powered submarines – as reflected in current Australian, Canadian and Indian acquisition programs.


The only problem with the German U-boats are that they will be v.expensive,costing almost as much as one far more capable 3-4 times larger Akula SSGN on a 10 yr lease! Lada/Amurs were touted as being cheaper than the 636 Kilos that they were to complement/replace. It would be interesting to see at what price they are touted as Viet Kilos 636.3s were acquired for around just $300M+ each in an order for 6.The U-218SGs for Sing are costing around $1.5B for just two.

However,there maybe a joker in the pack.The new Russian Kalina class sub,supoosedly a "5th-gen" AIP sub. It all depends upon what the IN's specs are and whether an existing east/west type can be tweaked or a totally new design considered,where we have to be the "lead-in" guinea pigs.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 19 Mar 2015 17:40

More on the Lada/Amur AIP sub which has been approved for series production,14 to be built for the RuN.This Pravda report,which contains an element of hype,however has some interesting points about types of subs and the plus points of the Amur/Lada. This is the sub that is expected to be touted by Russia for the P-75I requirement. Ladas will be able to carry both Klub and BMos missiles and Nirbhay when it arrives.

http://english.pravda.ru/russia/politic ... bmarine-0/
Russia's new 4th generation Lada submarine to nullify USA's naval power
18.03.2015

The new Russian submarine, Lada, will end the era of USA's reign at sea. (!) Washington will lose the main instrument of "power projection" to remote regions and may finally lose its global geopolitical role as well.

Anti-Russian militaristic hysteria has been snowballing in the West lately. Having noticed the revival of the traditionalist, imperial Russia that the deceitful Western Sodom has been humiliating and insulting for decades, the "free" European and American media filled their reports and pages with alarmist headlines about Moscow's "military preparations."

Should the Russians launch a rocket from the Plesetsk cosmodrome or from a submarine in the Barents Sea, or send its strategic aircraft flying along European borders, countless Western publications explode in accusations of "militarism and imperialism," "nuclear weapons rattling" "intimidation of the international community," and so on and so forth. Meanwhile, important news reports that are directly related to a change in the military-strategic balance of power in Eurasia, often pass unnoticed.

For example, on October 13, 2014, RIA Novosti news agency reported, citing a source at the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation that Russia decided to launch serial production of air-independent propulsion power plants that would be used for future Project 677 "Lada" submarines."

The message did not receive any attention of the general public. Even military observers paid no proper attention to it. Yet, the news marked a real revolution in the field of military submarine making.

Advantages and disadvantages of underwater hunters

Today, all submarines are divided into two groups by the type of power plants: submarines with a nuclear power plant (nuclear reactor) and diesel-electric submarines that move on the surface with the help of a diesel engine, and use battery-powered electric motors when navigating under the water.

Nuclear submarines appeared in the Soviet Navy in the late 1950s. The first nuclear submarine of Project 627 called the Leninsky Komsomol was put into operation in 1957. Since then and to this day, nuclear submarines constitute the main striking force of the Russian navy. They carry a wide range of most formidable weapons in the world - from strategic intercontinental missiles and tactical nuclear torpedoes to high-precision long-range cruise missiles - the core of the Russian strategic forces of non-nuclear deterrence.

Nuclear submarines possess a number of outstanding advantages. A nuclear sub can stay under the water for a practically unlimited period of time; it has high underwater speed, impressive submersion depth and an ability to carry a huge number of various weapons and equipment. Modern large displacement nuclear subs can be equipped not only with weapons, but also with highly efficient sonars, systems of communications, electronic reconnaissance and navigation.

At the same time, the main advantage of a nuclear power plant - its power - is the source of the main drawback of nuclear submarines. This drawback is noisiness. The presence of a nuclear reactor (and sometimes two) on board the submarine along with a whole range of other systems and mechanisms (turbines, generators, pumps, refrigeration units, fans, etc.) inevitably produces a variety of frequency oscillations and vibrations. Therefore, a nuclear submarine requires sophisticated technology to reduce the noise level.

Yet, a diesel-electric submarine is almost silent under water. Battery-powered electric motors do not require turbines and other noisy equipment. However, a diesel sub can stay under water for a relatively short period of time - just a few days. In addition, a diesel submarine is slow. The shortage of power, in turn, imposes serious constraints on displacement, weapons, and other key characteristics of diesel-electric submarines. In fact, these subs can hardly be referred to as "underwater" vessels. "Diving" would be a better word as they stay on the surface most of the time on deployment routes. In combat patrol areas, diesel-electric submarines have to ascend regularly and start diesel engines to recharge batteries.

For example, Russia's state-of-the-art diesel-electric submarine of Project 636.3 has only 400 miles of undersea navigation. In addition, the submarine moves under water at the speed of 3 knots, i.e. 5.4 km/h. Thus, such a submarine is unable to pursue an underwater target. The sub relies on intelligence information first and foremost. Hence, the main technique to use diesel-electric submarines in combat action is known as "veil" when submarines are deployed in a line perpendicular to the probable movement of the target, at specific distances from each other. The entire group of submarines receives commands from an external command post, which creates extra telltale factors and reduces the stability of underwater combat groups.

It has long been a dream for many navy engineers to create a submarine with a fundamentally new power plant that would combine the advantages of nuclear and diesel-electric submarines: power and stealth, longer autonomous diving and low noisiness.

Project 677 Lada: Major technological breakthrough

Russian submarines of Project 677 Lada with air-independent power plant will mark a serious breakthrough in this direction. The new submarine will take the Russian undersea fleet to new frontiers.

The Lada sub is not large - their displacement is almost twice as less as that of the famous Varshavyanka. Yet, its arms complex is unusually large. In addition to traditional mine and torpedo weapons (six 533-mm torpedo tubes, 18 torpedoes or mines), Project 667 is the world's first non-nuclear submarine, equipped with specialized launchers for cruise missiles (ten vertical launchers in the middle part of the body). These cruise missiles can be both tactical and long-range missiles designed to destroy strategic targets deep into enemy territory.

The most important feature of the new Russian submarine is the new air-independent propulsion plant. Without going into details, we would only say that with these power plants a Lada submarine will be submerged for up to 25 days - that is almost ten times longer than of its famous predecessor - Project 636.3 Varshavyanka. To crown it all, the Lada submarine will be even less noisy than the famous "black hole" Varshavyanka, which the Americans dubbed so because it is almost impossible to detect it.

NATO countries, particularly Germany and Sweden, have long been trying to equip their submarines with such power plants. German shipbuilders have tried to build small submarines equipped with a hybrid power plant since late 1990s. It includes surface speed diesel engine for recharging batteries, silver-zinc batteries for energy-conserving underwater navigation and air-independent propulsion plant for energy-saving underwater navigation on the base of fuel cells that include tanks with cryogenic oxygen and metal hydride containers (special metal alloy with hydrogen).

The Germans succeeded in increasing the duration of underwater navigation of their submarines to 20 days. Presently, German submarines with air-independent propulsion plants of various modifications are in navy service in Germany, Italy, Portugal, Turkey, Israel, Korea and several other countries.

Swedish group Kockums Submarin Systems began the construction of Gotland class submarines with air-independent propulsion power plants based on the so-called "Stirling engine". Swedish subs can also stay under water for up to 20 days without recharging batteries. Stirling engine submarines currently serve not only in Scandinavia, but also in Australia, Japan, Singapore and Thailand.

However, both German and Swedish submarines pale in comparison with Russian Lada submarines. Project 667 Lada is qualitatively a new generation of submarines.

Rubin Design Bureau - the main developer of submarines in Russia - designed the Lada to deliver salvo torpedo-missile strikes on marine and stationary ground targets both from torpedo tubes and specialized vertical missile silos. Due to the unique sonar system, the Russian sub has a significantly increased distance for target detection. It can submerge at the depth of 300 meters, develop underwater speed of up to 21 knots and submerged endurance of 45 days. To reduce noisiness, vibration isolators are used along with all-mode propulsion motor with permanent magnets. The hull of the submarine is covered with "Molniya" ("Lightning") material that absorbs sonar signals.

The Russian air-independent propulsion power plant will be a lot more energy conserving than its German analogue with up to 25 days of continuing underwater navigation. At the same time, Lada will be substantially less expensive than the German Project 212\214 sub.

Before 2020, the Russian Navy expects to receive 14 of new 4th generation submarines.

"Four to six of such submarines can completely block closed or semi-closed water area as of the Black, Baltic and Caspian Seas. Their advantages are obvious to any naval specialist," Vice-Admiral Viktor Patrushev said in an interview with RIA Novosti in late 2010.

The deployment of two or three groups of Lada submarines can fundamentally change the balance of power not only in the Baltic, Caspian and Black seas, but also in the North, in the Mediterranean water areas and in the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean. In the North, in the Barents Sea, Lada will cover the routes of deployment of Russian strategic missile submarines from any activity that US and NATO forces may show. This will significantly improve the combat stability of the naval component of Russian strategic nuclear forces.

Presently, Russian missile cruisers are mainly on duty under the Arctic ice, where they are virtually inaccessible to enemy action. The Americans can detect, track and attack our submarine only at the stage of its transition to the ​​combat patrol area. The Lada sub is ideally suited to counter US submarines as they hear them at much greater distances.

With regard to the Mediterranean, the Atlantic and the Indian Ocean, the presence of Lada-type submarines in those waters nullifies the American naval power that is primarily based on aircraft carrier strike groups.


PS:While the Lada may add to the capabilities of the RUN's sub fleet,its new Borei SSBNs and Yasen SSGNs,of which work on an upgraded version was just begun,will be the most deadly assets of its navy. The Ladas however will be exceptionally useful in the Baltic,Black and Meditt Seas and in the Far East operating out of Vladivostok against the PLAN,Japanese and SoKo navies.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby sohamn » 19 Mar 2015 22:25

^^^^ The article over hypes the unproven capability of lada / amur. In fact under current economic situations, I doubt russia has the funds to come up with a world class submarine. Its better we go with more scorpenes, as it just makes more operational sense.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby member_23370 » 19 Mar 2015 22:58

Mazagaon should be asked to modify scorpene design suitably for P-75I. Add DRDO AIP and the ability to fire Brahmos-M from VLS or tube.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2015 07:27

brahmos-m is being designed from day1 for TT launch and hence solve that problem.

the nirbhay I believe was 21" diameter as a design parameter so should be tested from TT after couple more land launch tests.

a mix of HWT, Nirbhay, Brahmos-M will give our subs a balanced weapons load. but SSKs (Kilo/Scorpene types) have load of around 14 weapons only.

the bigger ones like Soryu or Collins might have around 20(collins), 30(soryu). hence Soryu load equals that of a SSN.

a fresh design like Soryu2 might feature the new trend of a couple of big VL tubes, packed with 4-6 missiles each. thats the route all SSNs are going.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2015 07:34

P75I design imo should have 20 weapons in torpedo room and 2 tandem inine UVLS chambers behind TT room featuring 4 x brahmosM / nirbhay each. have sub caliber tubes gives freedom over 40 yrs to fit new weapons as things develop.

so a 8 x brahmos load would equal that of a DDG/FFG

and 10 HWT + 10 more missiles in torpedo room.

enough to hit anyone very hard.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby kuldipchager » 20 Mar 2015 07:50

Bheeshma

Post subject: Re: Project 75I- It Begins

PostPosted: 19 Mar 2015 22:58



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Mazagaon should be asked to modify scorpene design suitably for P-75I. Add DRDO AIP and the ability to fire Brahmos-M from VLS or tube.





[b]This submarne is to small to carry brahmos missile.Only sub is suitable for brahmos is Lada 1650.
[/b]

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby member_23370 » 20 Mar 2015 07:53

The Brahmos-M is only 6 m so should be possible.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby hnair » 20 Mar 2015 09:38

Question: the Scorpene hull forms should be visible in google images by now, but are not in any dry docks. Except SBC, no other place seem to have a covered dry dock. Maybe these are being made inside long buildings and we will see a ship-lift type assembly, with a roll-out and splash launch?

If so, one hopes for better pichars than the Arihant ones!

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 20 Mar 2015 10:35

BMos-M will take at least 3 years to arrive if the go-ahead is given today.Another 2 years of testing and one can say that perhaps by 2020 will it be ready for service in all 3 dimensions. Now the Scorpenes we have do not have AIP which will only arrive with the last 2. No idea whether this will be MESMA or an Indian/German/Russian AIP.The DRDO is developing our own,so most likely it will be the DRDO AIP system. That too has to arrive within 3 years otherwise the last 2 Scorpenes will be further delayed.
BMos or Klub already exists. As the article says,in addition to the usual 18 tube launched weapons,upto 10 more BMos type missiles can be carried. The sub may then arrive at around 2500t as it is single-hulled. How BMos-M can be integrated onto the Scorpenes/U-boats is another moot point.WE do nopt know if there are clauses concerning that possibility as the missile is a JV.In the current UKR imbroglio,with Russia and the EU at odds,sanctions,etc.,it is most unlikely that the Russians will give the nod for BMos-M to be fitted onto subs of countries currently actively working against it. The French stay on the Mistral delivery to the RuN is sure to produce a 100% veto of BMos-M being aboard Scorpenes.

Holistically,the IN should acquire at least 2 more Akulas,3 would be better,ex-Russian upgraded ones on lease,giving us a fleet of 4 SSGNs until our 6 desi SSN/SSGNs are built. The Russians are on a fast-track building campaign to build new Yasen-2 subs,with at least 10-12 planned. Some of their Akulas will still have 20+ years of life and be ready for their mid-life upgrade and may be available to us. All Soviet era N-subs are being upgraded as their hulls have 30-40 years of life left in them.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby SNaik » 20 Mar 2015 13:41

Kilo has a weapon load of 18 torps or 4 missiles+12 torps or 24 mines.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Singha » 20 Mar 2015 14:01

a 8 pack of brahmosM/nirbhay fired out of UVL and another 8 from TT can do a fair amt of damage to a large industrial or defence facility.
that would give all our SSKs a long range land attack capability upto 1000km....far enough from the coast to make it very tough for ASW assets to deter.

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby member_28722 » 20 Mar 2015 21:44

Considering how big Brahmos is, I find it hard to see an SSK equipped with Brahmos... leave alone 16 missiles in it.
Also considering the fact that LA class nuke boats carry only 12 Thawk and another 25 torpedo/harpoon mix with torpedo being majority of that , expecting an SSK to deliver close to equal in missiles is unrealistic on many levels

Finally we have no surface ship deployed which delivers 16 LACM as of today while navies which have such capability have surface ships deploying a lot more

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Philip » 21 Mar 2015 15:45

Sub launched BMos is ready for action,but the dude at the BMos pav said that the IN hasn't given them a sub for it to be fitted,due to the sub shortage.Meanwhile more Lada/Amurs being built.

http://en.portnews.ru/news/196635/
Admiralty Shipyards lays down submarine Velykiye Luki (photo)

Admiralty Shipyards has held a solemn ceremony for keel-laying of the Velykiye Luki , diesel-electric submarine of Project 677 Lada, the shipyard says in its press release.

The Velykiye Luki is the third ship in the series of Project 677 submarines being built by Admiralty Shipyards for RF Navy. Project 677 Lada is the forth generation of conventional submarines.

The construction of the second and the third submarines of Project 677 was resumed by Admiralty Shipyards in July 2013 and in late 2014 accordingly. The submarines were laid down in 2005 and in 2006 but in 2009 the construction of the submarines was suspended according to the decision of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation before handing over the lead submarine for trial operation.

A new contract signed by the Ministry of Defence provides the ship’s construction according to the corrected detailed design. The submarine designer of the Lada project — CDB ME “Rubin” — has carried out a lot of work on improvement of the submarine and development of the modernized systems for the ship. The serial ships will be equipped with the modernized prototypes of equipment, i. e. the integrated automated ship system, electric propulsion system and navigation system.

Admiralty Shipyards is the only shipyard in Russia to build ships of this class.

Admiralteiskie Verfi OJSC (Admiralty Shipyards) is a key enterprise of shipbuilding, a centre of conventional submarine building of Russia. The shipyard is affiliated with the United Shipbuilding Corporation OJSC. At the moment the shipyard facilities are fully engaged. A number of contracts are being successfully implemented at the shipyard for domestic and foreign customers. Three series of submarines for RF and foreign Navies are under construction now. Besides, the Igor Belousov rescue vessel with the deep-operating vehicle Bester-1 is under trials today. The Company’s staff numbers 6,700 persons.


Ck links for pics.
First multirole Yasen SSBN adopted by Russian Navy
Hidden Potential: Russia Builds Two More Submarines

© Photo: press-service of JSC "PO "Sevmash 19.03.2015

The multirole Yasen-class nuclear sub Arkhangelsk and the diesel-electric Lada-class Velikiye Luki have been laid down as part of Submariners' Day celebrations.

Two new submarines will be laid down to celebrate Russian Submariners' Day on March 19, the Arkhangelsk, a 120-meter Yasen-class nuclear submarine and Velikiye Luki, a 72-meter Lada-class diesel-electric submarine as part of the rearmament program which will complete in 2020.

A Strategic Goal
Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin's working visit to Severodvinsk

Currently there is only one Yasen-class multirole submarine in the Russian Navy, the Severodvinsk, seven of which are expected to be made. Notably, the submarines are made using solely Russian defense industries, as components made in the former USSR have been phased out.

Delta IV class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine

Russian Northern Fleet’s Nuclear Forces Hold Snap Drills
Multirole nuclear submarines have been growing in importance internationally, and in the US Navy, they have been slowly pushing out strategic subs, as since 2004, 11 Virginia-class submarines have been built and seven more are in the works. Meanwhile, the last strategic nuclear sub made in the US, the Ohio-class USS Louisiana, was laid down in 1992.

Strategic nuclear submarines and multirole submarines form the foundation of the Russian Navy's Submarine Forces. By 2020, the state rearmament program projects that the navy will receive eight Borei-class strategic nuclear submarines, three of which have already entered service, and two more of which will be laid down by 2016.

Assembly begins of diesel-electric submarine "Velikiye Luki" in St. Petersburg

Meanwhile, Lada-class diesel submarines are meant to replace the Varshavianka-class, two of which are currently in service in the Black Sea Fleet, a third undergoing trials, and three more are under construction but expected to be in service by in 2016, after which the contract won't be renewed. The Lada was meant to replace the Varshavianka in the late 1990s, but issues with the engine and acoustic isolation caused the first ship, the Saint Petersburg, to only be finished in 2010.

© Sputnik/ Mikhail Fomichev

Russia Grows Maritime Potential, Returns to Global Geopolitics
The new Velikiye Luki submarine will be built according to a new, modernized project, and will have "improved stealth parameters and extended autonomous operation," according to Navy Commander Viktor Chirkov. This most likely means a new engine which does not depend on the submarine's oxygen supply, which gives submarines improved stealth and allows them to stay underwater longer.

The Varshavianka, called the "Improved Kilo" in NATO terminology, has been called the "Black Hole" by the organization because of their quiet operation. The project dates back to the 1970s, and is considered which automatically reload every 15 seconds.
one of the best diesel submarine projects, as despite its stealth, it has six 533-mm torpedo bays
Read more: http://sputniknews.com/russia/20150319/ ... z3V17g5x8K

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Re: Project 75I- It Begins

Postby Thakur_B » 22 Mar 2015 13:55

saurabh.mhapsekar wrote:Considering how big Brahmos is, I find it hard to see an SSK equipped with Brahmos... leave alone 16 missiles in it.


Brahmos-M/NG seems to be the only viable alternate in the Brahmos family for integration with P75I subs.


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