Project 75I - It Begins

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Singha » 12 Nov 2017 11:20

i have extreme doubts about the quality and efficacy of the French and UK N-subs SSN and SSBNs.

they are mainly kept to retain a seat in the P5 as a 'global power' and not any independent deterrence value which anyway the 15 or so Ohio SSBNs provide + land based MinutemanIII silos.

as mere running dawgs of the great khan, I doubt their quality is anywhere at par. just look at the numbers khan churns out and the levels of investment in anything thats remotely an advantage - its a rain of $$ vs a trickle in EU.

Russi n-tech may not be as a polished and elegant as Khans but when the day of the dog dawns, they will work ... their own lives depend on it.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 13 Nov 2017 11:09

The only Brahmos that can be carried by a conventional sub will be the NG version which is 5m long and 0.5m in dia
The regular Brahmos is an 8.4m long and 0.6m dia beast.
Scorpene's bean is 6.2 m and Draft is 5.4m

A plug with 4-6 brahmos is doable - either in a 2x3 config or a big 2m tube with three Brahmos fit in

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 13 Nov 2017 11:53

Either P-75 I sould be an Indian designed sub taking use of consultants or collaboration of a major sub builder
or DRDO should build a few research subs, manned by IN crews to develop and refine indigenous conventional sub building capabilities.

The Naval Design Bureau with NSTL and its computers and long swimming pool at vizag can easily design these

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby tsarkar » 13 Nov 2017 13:39

Folks, visit to a shipyard or factory is no indicator of transfer of technology. The French are mounting another PR offensive for P-75I and also trying to cover up lack of ToT earlier as well as data leak. And the US personnel visiting INS Chakra is a crappy piece of news. That too has no bearing on any French deal. And the French specifically promised the Australians that no Barracuda or Shortfin Barracuda technology would be shared with India.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 09 Dec 2017 23:24

Posting screen grabs from the Navy's video depicting line drawings of a double hulled conventional submarine, with and without AIP
Credit to our own Aditya G from twitter

Image
Image
Last edited by Gagan on 09 Dec 2017 23:56, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 09 Dec 2017 23:31

The sub has both Non-AIP and AIP versions.
The AIP can possibly be the PAFC DRDO AIP, LOX tank is mentioned. AIP seems to be a plugged in section
4 cell VLS is seen (4x2 cell ?)
Less length of the conning tower as compared to the kilos, fore end tapered as on the Arihant, small hump aft of the conning tower for the VLS

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Austin » 09 Dec 2017 23:37

Reminds me of the Brahmos Advert and Amur Sub with a slight hump behind the sail

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YA9NH6H3T1Q/U ... hMos-1.jpg
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/Amur_9 ... 005_14.JPG

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Aditya G » 09 Dec 2017 23:43

Gagan, the design is clearly double hulled. Is this a surprise? I think in dimensions it's effectively a mini Arihant with VLS to suit Brahmos and Sagarika.

Gagan wrote:The sub has both Non-AIP and AIP versions.
The AIP can possibly be the PAFC DRDO AIP, LOX tank is mentioned. AIP seems to be a plugged in section
4 cell VLS is seen (4x2 cell ?)
Less length of the conning tower as compared to the kilos, fore end tapered as on the Arihant, small hump aft of the conning tower for the VLS

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 10 Dec 2017 00:01

Austin wrote:Reminds me of the Brahmos Advert and Amur Sub with a slight hump behind the sail

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YA9NH6H3T1Q/U ... hMos-1.jpg
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/Amur_9 ... 005_14.JPG

The Amurs in these pictures have only one level. The second level is the battery compartment

This P75 i sub has 3 levels, with the bottom level being the battery compartment. A mini Arihant indeed.
Instead of the N reactor, this one has the Diesel Generator and the Diesel Gen + AIP.

They might be building this at SBC/HSL right now for all we know. Or they might start building after the Scorpenes are done at Mazgaon

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby srin » 10 Dec 2017 00:06

Austin wrote:Reminds me of the Brahmos Advert and Amur Sub with a slight hump behind the sail

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YA9NH6H3T1Q/U ... hMos-1.jpg
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/Amur_9 ... 005_14.JPG


Aren't Amurs single-hulled ?

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 10 Dec 2017 01:44

NMRLs AIP
Image
Image

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 10 Dec 2017 03:26

There were 2 significant reports in the last sev. months reg.the conv. sub issue.That we were signing an agr2deement to work with Rubin(?) on an AIP system for our future sub.

Secondly, a few months later another report said that the DRDO developed AIP module would be used for P-75Is.It indicates that a working prototype may have been created in similar fashion to the S-1 at K'pakkam which validated the N- reactor for the SSBN.

While the drgs.appear schematic, the fact that double hulls are being considered indicate perhaps some commonality with the elderly Kilos.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Vips » 10 Dec 2017 04:02

A lot of work related to the indigenous AIP program has been going for the last 8-10 years at the Ambernath Ordnance Factory near Mumbai and indeed a working prototype has been set up and demonstrated.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Bart S » 10 Dec 2017 05:04

Vips wrote:A lot of work related to the indigenous AIP program has been going for the last 8-10 years at the Ambernath Ordnance Factory near Mumbai and indeed a working prototype has been set up and demonstrated.


You are missing Philip saar's 'point' though, which is that the designs and expertise was handed over graciously by the superior Ruskies to the incapable and ignorant SDREs who cannot do anything on their own. :wink:

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 10 Dec 2017 05:30

Philip ji
There is a report that the Russian AIP was found unsatisfactory, and that DRDO will pursue their own design, which the Navy was reportedly happy with.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 10 Dec 2017 05:48

Aug 2016 GOI declined DCNS wish to pass on their AIP sub tech.IN rejected DRDO's system for the last 2 Scorpenes as it was not ready, " only in the project definition stage".Adm.Arun Prakash, former CNS agreeing with the IN,was scathing about the DRDO saying it "was full of hyperbole and exaggeration".He said that it should first build a test bed on land and after that fit it onto an old sub before it was cleared for series production.

Early 2017 a report emerged about a tie-up/ agreement with Rubin for AIP sub tech.I think it was for L&T in the context of partnership for the P-75I tender.It is an old post of mine.Last news around a month or so ago is that the DRDO system would be used for the P-75Is. No word from the IN.What has happened in the last yr. is unknown .However, there is no report of it having been fitted to any sub, essential before clearance, or that a land test bed has been successfully functioning.I think this may have happened why the GOI/ MOD is confident that by the time the sub design is chosen, the DRDO system would be OK.A long time ago I suggested fitting it onto a UW barge just as we've been testing our missiles from.But even this cannot replace a sub operating at diff. depths and conditions.

PS:Hindu Sep 2017.All 6 Scorpenes to get DRDO's AIP system during refits starting from 2023.System will be ready by then.In this context the GOI is probably confident that the Desi AIP system would've been perfected and that when P-75I construction begins it can be integrated smoothly with it.

Further Dec 2017 Force report reg.Rubin's offer , IN sub fleet and warning about our old Kilos even though they're being refitted (second refit) to fire Klub class missiles,are old and can't last forever, especially once they've passed their lifespan dates .When asked why Amur's are being offered when major Rubin orders were for upgraded Kilos, R said that it was
better suited keeping in mind our specific reqs. in the P-75I tender. Amurs had a better ventilation system amongst other features.Therefore we could see Kilos being retd. from around 2025 .The new P-75I subs will have to arrive from thereabouts.A decision must be taken in 2018 on choice of sub.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Eric Leiderman » 10 Dec 2017 08:43

The pump jet technology the french are dangling is not a big deal, For surface craft it has been in use for 60 years. It now powers fast ferries with a BHP of over 25k giving them a surface speed of 30 kts
Yes there will be differences using this model on a submarine however they will be design tweeks for stealth at the expense of speed.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Austin » 10 Dec 2017 11:26

It could be just one of the design NDB might be working on we will have to see if this get serious pursued and what is the final outcome.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 10 Dec 2017 21:44

They should atleast build a TD version and let Navy and DRDO run it and improve it
Add the AIP once it is available 5-7 yrs down the line.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Pratyush » 10 Dec 2017 21:56

The posted picture is of a prospective sub design appears to be an early effort with the hump for the Brahmos tubes. Subsequent efforts should look at making the boat hull smooth and hydrodynamic.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby viveks » 11 Dec 2017 01:16

Does anyone have any info on which agency maybe testing the oxygen generation and reprocessing systems that help the submarine stay under water for more than...15 days. I have never heard of any one talking about that. Only reactor talk.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Singha » 11 Dec 2017 09:19

Pratyush wrote:The posted picture is of a prospective sub design appears to be an early effort with the hump for the Brahmos tubes. Subsequent efforts should look at making the boat hull smooth and hydrodynamic.


given the limitations of a SSK power plant, it might be preferable to have a prominent small hump than enlarge the entire hull to make it streamlined but incur a huge weight (and speed) penalty . the small hump will increase a bit of drag and turbulence but might be lesser of two evils.

the delta class SSBNs definitely had a long and successful service life. and they had the ugliest humps possible due to size of the R29 Sineva liquid fuel SLBMs..40t but 14.8m long

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Vips » 30 Jan 2018 02:44

Growing alarm as Rs 70,000 crore submarine project remains stuck a decade after initial approval.

India is yet to get cracking on its long-pending project to build six advanced stealth submarines, with land-attack cruise missiles and air-independent propulsion for greater underwater endurance, over a decade after the initial approval from the defence ministry.
Defence sources, in fact, say the acceptance of necessity (AoN) for the around Rs 70,000 crore ($10.9 billion) diesel-electric submarine project called "Project-75 India" is set to expire once again on February 6 without "any concrete progress" being made to select the Indian shipyard and the foreign collaborator for it.

Though the AoN for the project, which was first accorded way back in November 2007, will be extended, it must be remembered that it will take another seven to eight years for the first submarine to roll out after the final contracts are actually inked.

This is yet another grim reminder of the sheer lack of long-term defence planning and execution to build military capabilities in tune with the country's expanding strategic objectives. No major "Make in India" project in defence has actually kicked off in the last four years, with at least six mega plans worth over Rs 3.5 lakh crore stuck at different stages, as was first reported by TOI in October last year.

Saddled with 13 old conventional submarines, only half of them operational at any given time, the Navy however has some reason to cheer this week. The third of the six French Scorpene submarines being built under the ongoing Rs 23,652 crore "Project-75" at Mazagon Docks will be "launched" into water on January 31.

The 1,565-tonne submarine, which will be christened INS Karanj, will follow her sisters INS Kalvari, which was commissioned last December, and INS Khanderi. While INS Khanderi is slated for commissioning in mid-2018 after finishing her sea trials, INS Karanj will follow by early-2019. Though all the six Scorpenes were initially to be delivered by 2017 under the contract inked in 2005, the last one is now slated for induction by June 2020.

Project-75 India, which has been stuck in general politico-bureaucratic apathy and a series of expert committees and task-forces, of course is yet to be even finalised. Four ship-builders, Naval Group-DCNS (France), ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (Germany), Rosoboronexport Rubin Design Bureau (Russia) and Saab Kockums (Sweden), have responded to the request for information (RFI) issued for the project in July last year.

But the RFI to shortlist the Indian "strategic partner" or shipyard is yet to be even issued. Consequently, the "marriage" or the eventual down-selection of the Indian shipyard with the foreign collaborator is still nowhere on the horizon.

A worried Navy, in the interim, has pushed for the over Rs 5,000 crore "life extension and refit" of four existing Sindhughosh-class (Russian Kilo) and two Shishumar-class (German HDW) submarines beyond their operational life of 25 years. The first one, INS Sindhukesari, is slated to return from Russia after its ongoing Rs 1,197 crore refit by the end of this year.

While the second one, INS Sindhuraj, is also being refitted in Russia, the other four (Sindhuratna, Sindhughosh, Shishumar and Shankush) will undergo the process in Indian shipyards. "It will take four-five years for all the six to complete their refits," said a source.

Overall, India needs at least 18 diesel-electric submarines as well as six nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSNs) and four nuclear-powered submarines with nuclear-tipped missiles (SSBNs). But the Navy is making do with just one new and 13 old conventional submarines, and one SSBN (INS Arihant) and SSN (INS Chakra) each as of now.

China, in sharp contrast, has over 56 submarines, which include five advanced JIN-class SSBNs armed with 7,400-km range JL-2 missiles. Pakistan, in addition to its four to five diesel-electric submarines, is now on course to induct eight more stealth submarines from China.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 30 Jan 2018 11:19

The IN should at least lease brand new Kilos/Amur's once offered by Russia in the aftermath of the SR tragedy.They can either be bought at depreciated costs after the lease period of returned when our new built subs of whatever design start arriving.Unfortunately the IN is to my mind behaving very unrealistically, like the OZ navy in wanting a conv.AIP sub to do the biz of an SSN. They should instead acquire large numbers of HUKs, leaving the biz of multi-ocean long endurance ops to the SSNs/SSGNs (Akulas).A few more Akulas armed with BMos,Klub, Shkval, Nirbhay, etc. will be excellent for the IN far more capable than anything the PLAN possesses and the equiv. or even better than USN LA class SSNs.

Small cheap HUKs are perfect for dealing with Pak and anything intruding in the IN with a 45 to 60 day patrol if AIP is added.The Desi DRDO AIP system could be fitted to Amur's, which would be at least $100M less than a German U-boat and almost $200M less than a Scorpene!These leased subs are the fastest and only way of swiftly beefing up the appalling state of the IN's sub fleet where Kilos 30 yrs on are still operating.The tragic lesson of the Argie U-boat which was not properly maintained , no regular maintenance done for 3 years, as old as our Kilos appeared to have suffered a battery fire, couldn't resurface and imploded when it reached crushing depth.Even with their second record IN Kilos Can't have a life extension beyond another decade.Some immediate remedy has to be found , leading new Kilos/ Amur's the most sensible option.There are no new U-209s or other U-boats available unfortunately and the German navy's subs are also in a poor state.

Some years ago I advocated buying the new Greek U-boats which they couldn't pay for, which they claimed had some flaws, a device to prevent payment.We could've picked them up for a song.Previously, those senior admirals and officers of the IN were very clued on with their small budgets and acquired a lot of second hand warships like the Hermes/Viraat, Vikrant earlier a Leander for the training sqd.etc. These days ouf top brass appear to want only the best and most expensive eqpt. which we can neither afford nor build at home on time.The number of warships and subs without vital weaponry, helos and systems is a joke.

he fastest way in which we could get z third carrier is to make an offer of buy or lease of the cash-strapped RN for one of their new 65K QE carriers.Building one of that size will take us at least 10+ years.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby JTull » 30 Jan 2018 12:14

With billions being thrown at many other projects, I 'd have thought getting 5-6 ready made Kilos for $2bln would have made sense to the planners. Perfection is the enemy of good enough. We're chasing impractical barracuda, soryu deals while more and more foreign subs are stalking just off our waters. Our shipyards will have hands full with SSN /SSBN construction and there is no immediate need to insist on a 'perfect' local diesel-electric sub.

Think about it. 5-6 Kilos for just the price of 1 SSN/SSBN. We can afford a decade of further delays in P-75I with these.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 30 Jan 2018 13:06

Precisely.The RUN is building both Kilos-for the Pacific fleet,and Amurs,more likely for the Baltic fleet.Since we're sending all ur Kilos for their second refit,why the offer of lease of new Kilos made some time ago was not taken up? There was no replacement for the SR too.This boat is the most widely used one in the IN and the easiest to induct from the point of view of training,operations,maintenance,etc. The time our MOD takes for grandiose acquisitions right from the AJT,MMRCA,etc. should've warned our naval planners sufficiently enough to ask for "more" of the same like Oliver Twist,instead of a new item on the menu which takes years to "cook"! Even a G-to-G arrangement with Germany for a second series of U-boats based upon the U-209 or 212/214 after HDW was cleared,could've taken place as we're satisfied with operating German boats.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Will » 30 Jan 2018 14:18

Its criminal that the second sub line hasn't been finalised till date. On the defence front am really disappointed with this govt. Thought they would move faster on projects and increase the defence budget. At the very least follow on orders for the scorpenes should be placed with tweaks to mitigate the signature due to the leaks. Get the French to pay for that incident.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Vips » 30 Jan 2018 20:56

The more the delay in the 75I finalization, the better the chances for French to get orders for at at least 2-3 more Scorpenes. A quick decision needs to be made or the sub building skills at Mazgaon Docks will be lost just as it happened 3 decades ago with U209.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 30 Jan 2018 22:08

The Indian Scorpenes are completely compromise#.OZ leaks specific to our boats.Secondly they're very expensive even wighout any AIP system! It woulc be an act of great stupidity to build mord simply to keep thd sub lind at MDL active.Why haven't we a single research sub in the inventory.Russia has built so many to improve its designs.There is a req. for mini-subs too.These could easily be built at MDL.Just because we are building a line of French subs does not mean that we are beholden to them forever!

L&T would be best placed to build the 6 SSNs as HSL will be fully occupied in building the SSBNs.Kalpakkam is also close by too their yard outside Chennai.MDL could build German subs after Scorpenes with the Amur's anywhere else.Pip, or even in a parallel line.Conversely, the 6 SSNs could be built at HSL, an easier proposition since the SSBNs are also being built there.L&T could then I stead build the diesel boats.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Kartik » 31 Jan 2018 05:49

kit wrote:
Rakesh wrote:https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/923947447566475269 ---> Japan's counter-OBOR (One Belt, One Road) proposition needs to be examined carefully. But it must fully reflect Indian strategic sensitivities.

Japan to propose strategic dialogue with US, India and Australia: Report
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ar ... 277784.cms


They need a defence pact till they develop nuclear weapons. Japan is one of those original warlocks wearing a pacifist mask., now waking up! Good for India.


The more warrior like they become the better for India. They'll look to India for partnership against the Chinese and will occupy more and more of the Chinese mindspace, drawing resources away from India. The Chinese will never be able to forget what the Japanese Army did to them in WW-II and given the lack of any disputes between Japan and India, we make for natural democratic partner nations.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby yensoy » 31 Jan 2018 11:11

Gagan wrote:NMRLs AIP
Image


This appears to be state of the art. NaBH4 isn't known to be a big player in hydrogen storage as per Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_borohydride. The referenced article which proposes to use NaBH4 with nanotechnology is rather recent http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2012/08/16/3569478.htm.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Eric Leiderman » 31 Jan 2018 11:44

There have been many comments in different threads that we cannot build a diesel powered sub.
We have 30% indiginous content in the scorpoins, However IP is not ours.

So we design one roughly on the same hull as the scorpion. and get the local content up gradually over a build of 10 to 12 units However the IP is ours now. With each batch of 3 we improve it with user feedback.

Preferably a joint venture between Maz dock and L & T We have waited 10 years for 75I we might have been well on our way by now if we had followed a template roughly as outlined above.
As we get better we lease at freindly rates the first iterations to veitnam phillipines and other East pacific states, That way when the sh..t hits the fan
Maybe the PLAN will have some ambiguity on what is ours and what is not and we could slink some of ours in the mix. They are doing the same to us learn from them.
For this to happen we need a Navy that is willing to procure something that is less than the best and a goverment to lay out funding in stone.
So a lot of ifs here but this could be a LCA type project for the navy to run with.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Pratyush » 31 Jan 2018 15:55

It is really quite strange that having designed a nuke boat. And having put her in the water 10 years ago. We are still looking at forign partners to help us with the p 75I.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Singha » 31 Jan 2018 16:37

a cost effective option would be buy out the U209 design from Thyssen, put in whatever domestic systems we can incrementally and build some 12 of them using 2 yards. I dont think german govt will mind as their main export product is now U214 and U216(on paper). it will be small and chalak sub but worth it to rebuild our submarine building ecosystem. would be like our BAE Hawk deal. BAE is offering good support for any adaptations as they make some royalty and consulting money on a cash cow basis if it clicks.

we shoulda have done this in early 90s...but HDW conspiracy as usual nuked our ambitions....like clockwork some scam or FUD is erected to sink our plans by traitors and their foreign masters.

I have lost faith that conventional AIP subs (U216, collins, barracuda, soryu) armed with VL tubes will be a "poor mans SSGN" .... for one thing we should be able to field Klubs from the TT itself, and the whole "land attack" thing only reaches scary mean levels if you kit up a Ohio with 150 TLAMs or the Oscar-mkis now coming online with the Granit tubes fielding sub caliber zircon/kalibr/yakhont in some typically ungodly russian headcount.

for bigger meat, our SSN/SSBN fleet will field the VL tables + be able to spring across long distances both in egress and ingress...so the whole "submerged strike carrier" thing is best left to them, while SSK do the ASW and ship hunting work and be as small and light on feet & purse as possible.

the Yasen carries some 40 VL tubes in mix n match mode. enough to wipe out a small nation using nuclear tipped missiles or lay waste to a range of infra targets.

a big of a pup is my SSK plan, but once he gets teeth on someone's neck does not let go. these boxer family routinely kill much larger dogs simply by not letting go.
Image

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 31 Jan 2018 22:05

Wow! What if a yasen type boat with 30-40 tubes with MARVed conventional tipped weapons, unloads on a nation?
THAT threat would be something really really fearful, much more than an N tipped version, which is all hot air.

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Gagan » 31 Jan 2018 22:09

A conventional boat is will within India's design and engineering capabilities.
India is also not under any sanctions as far as tech is concerned in this field, and parts can be sourced from everywhere - the US, Europe, Russia, Israel if needed to speed up things. There is a framework for defense cooperation in place with most such arms and component manufacturing nations.

Optics, engines, weaponery, sensors, steel - India is either self sufficient or close to being so. Eitherway, none of these items are currently under sanctions AFAIK

A family of conventional subs must also be developed just as a family of N subs is being built

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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 01 Feb 2018 00:10

That was the Adm. Bhagwat plan.Two lines from east and west to acquire 24 (conv.) subs, followed by a desi design incorporating the best features of both.He was sacked ostensibly for revealing the ATV programme (a lame excuse, everyone knew of such a programme in existence ), when he questioned the huge money spent for it from the navy's budget with little progress, much delay and zero accountability. Two decades on, we are still struggling to build Scorpenes at home.

Singha
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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2018 10:54

yasen is the size our future SSBNs will be. it has 8 SLBM sized tubes (but not long enough for SLBM) behind the sail.
will be packing heat in this format - the photo is probably a Ohio SSGN conversion but replace those tlam with your favourite mix of russian weapons . I would say 8*5=40 is minimum and 8*7=56 as maximum depending on missile diameter and sub caliber tubes.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... th3_ciSVgg

likewise the 3 unfinished oscar class are being completed for service. each packed 24 pvls granit array. I would image each such tube can take 3 kalibers. for a total of 72. nearly twice the strike power of the yasen , as befits its forbidding size and shape. I think the first refinished Oscar is already online rigged for special missions and a manned UUV on its back, but it still packs the 24 tubes for sure - one can trust the russians to pack missiles to the gunwales and from bow to stern.

Singha
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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Singha » 01 Feb 2018 10:56

Syrian airbase strike by TLAMs (56) has shown it takes a lot to even level a major airbase and decommission it for a long time.

Philip
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Re: Project 75I - It Begins

Postby Philip » 01 Feb 2018 11:32

Titbit from the media.MDL is gearing itself up to have two lines to manufacture subs.What gives? Something is cooking.


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