Indian Military Helicopters

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sankum
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 28 May 2020 22:18

Good now the naval Dhruv will be NLUH tender complaint. Two year waiting time to prove the modification.
The tail boom folding would have reduced the folded height from 5.1m to less than 4m and folded length to 11.5m. Now not required to reduce complexity.
The article says in 2009 further orders for ALH were curtailed due to folding issue while Ajay Shukla in his 2008 article said it was because IN wanted a 3T class and 10 T class helicopters.
It had no place for 5.5T Dhruv as it falls between two stools
If IN had accepted a 5.5 T class the modification would have been implemented by now.

JayS
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JayS » 01 Jun 2020 00:42

I'll just leave this here for reference
https://twitter.com/realkaypius/status/ ... 6900393984
For the Nth time, auto blade folding was NEVER incl, either in 1985 ALH specs or the latest NUH NSQRs. Of all heptrs Indian Navy ever held, only Seaking variants have auto blade folding. Kamovs & Alouettes have best manual procedure. First get the facts right, then tweet opinion.


https://twitter.com/realkaypius/status/ ... 3867239429
It's not a requirement for NUH. It was never a requirement for ALH. Hope this tweet settles it. Perhaps, AVM Bahadur was referring to NMRH.

MeshaVishwas
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby MeshaVishwas » 04 Jun 2020 04:11

IAF indigenising Russian night vision goggles for use in helicopters
https://m.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/ ... ters-93917

basant
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 05 Jun 2020 15:50

Tweet from @Amitraaz. See the link for video.

Amiet R. Kashyap
@Amitraaz Here are some visuals from HAL LCH's Weapon and Performance evaluation trials in LEH.
#LCH
@HALHQBLR

basant
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 05 Jun 2020 15:53

And LUH at Leh!

Maverick @Maverick_bharat
HAL Light utility helicopter in Himalayas

Image

basant
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 11 Jun 2020 23:44

On the subject of ALH and all that is going on right now, it would be great to have feedback on the current state of affairs too. If Hair Nair sir or others with relevant knowledge share their experience, it would be wonderful.

ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2020 11:58

Is the NUH NQSR published?

ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 12 Jun 2020 12:19

What is the size of the helicopter hangar on IN ships?
How many ships have this?

basant
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 12 Jun 2020 13:39

ramana wrote:Is the NUH NQSR published?

RFP is available for NUH. NSQR, I don't know.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prem Kumar » 13 Jun 2020 12:06

A great opinion piece posted by WingCo Bhambhani - an ALH/LUH test pilot deputed to HAL from the IAF.

He doesn't mince words when he says that the Navy's NUH specs are intentionally designed to keep ALH/LUH out. Balanced article, that says both the Navy and HAL must set aside past differences and sit down to work things out.

https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06/navy-dhruv-spat-lets-stop-fighting-hal-test-pilot-says.html

ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 13 Jun 2020 12:37

Basant, Thanks for the RFP. Very interesting requirement. And concept of operations.

srai
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby srai » 13 Jun 2020 20:46

basant wrote:
ramana wrote:Is the NUH NQSR published?

RFP is available for NUH. NSQR, I don't know.

It’s obvious the IN is looking for a “foreign OEM”.

If only the IN, HAL, DRDO, GoI and private sector were able to work together over the last 15+ years, this import wouldn’t have been necessary. IMO

ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 14 Jun 2020 04:12

Srai, Let's see how it plays out. Trust NaMo.

sankum
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 14 Jun 2020 06:13

You just loose faith in such selection of imports where RFP and SP model are just cover to get a preselected one and HAL chairman is openly saying it.
Pilatus ,Embraer and VVIP helo were as such where kickbacks were paid and got caught.
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06 ... -navy.html

pandyan
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby pandyan » 14 Jun 2020 10:08

CDS also mentioned that services should not exaggerate requirements. the unique challenges and constraints of operating from a ship are interesting engineering problems for young HAL engineers to take head-on and with determination.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 14 Jun 2020 10:34


basant
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 14 Jun 2020 10:41

I am confused with the statement made by the HAL CMD.

Providing the first concrete timeline to HAL’s promise on the Dhruv, Madhavan has told Livefist, “I can categorically say that the Dhruv will meet all requirements of the navy. Within 24-36 months from the time an order is placed, we will develop and deliver the product. Our rate of production is also far higher. So project time will be much shorter than what the navy has envisaged in its request for quotation.”


So does HAL want modification of NUH RFQ/RFI or says will match it if is allowed to participate?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby srin » 14 Jun 2020 18:12

The NUH RFI requires the AUW to be around 5t. The Dhruv is around 5.5t. So can't make the cut.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 14 Jun 2020 18:27

srin wrote:The NUH RFI requires the AUW to be around 5t. The Dhruv is around 5.5t. So can't make the cut.

If you see the CMD's interview, he 'categorically' said HAL will meet all requirements.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby abhik » 14 Jun 2020 22:04

The requirements need to be more of, as they say, "I want to cross the river" rather than "build me a bridge" - or the specifications can narrow down the so the outcome will be predetermined.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby anupamd » 14 Jun 2020 22:19

1st Contract Finally In Sight For India's Own Attack Helicopter https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06 ... opter.html

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Hari Nair » 15 Jun 2020 19:59

anupamd wrote:1st Contract Finally In Sight For India's Own Attack Helicopter https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06 ... opter.html


Finally! If we had, as a nation enabled this contract 16-18 months ago - we would have had at least 7-8 LCHs inducted and perhaps available for operations at DBO!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 15 Jun 2020 20:03

^^We always prepare for last conflicts & Wars.

abhik
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby abhik » 15 Jun 2020 20:25

We are now awaiting financial sanction. By the end of this year, we should see the initial order for 15 aircraft.

Don't count your chickens saars, this almost done business has been going on for quit some time (for Tejas Mk1A etc and others), we can celebrate only after the deal is actually signed.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby gunnvant » 15 Jun 2020 21:07

I think LCH is in air. Night flying trials?

nachiket
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 15 Jun 2020 22:26

Hari Nair wrote:
anupamd wrote:1st Contract Finally In Sight For India's Own Attack Helicopter https://www.livefistdefence.com/2020/06 ... opter.html


Finally! If we had, as a nation enabled this contract 16-18 months ago - we would have had at least 7-8 LCHs inducted and perhaps available for operations at DBO!

Sir, has HELINA finished integration with LCH, dev and user trials and is it ready for production? The report doesn't make it clear.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 15 Jun 2020 22:28

It has taken four years since the MoD clearing acquisition for the price negotiations to complete. Price negotiations for a contract where for all practical purposes, money will be transferred from one govt. department to another. Let that sink in. This is downright criminal behavior. It is because of these geniuses that if the balloon goes up in Ladakh during the current confrontations, the IA will not have access to what could have been an extremely effective asset to counter the Chinese Armored and Mechanized forces being built up.

And yes, shame on the government too for allowing this state of affairs to continue. You can't aim to be strong on Natl security on the one hand and then allow this on the other.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 15 Jun 2020 23:30

Price negotiation has taken 4 years for 15 LCH OR all 165 ?

Kartik
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 16 Jun 2020 04:24

Some great shots of the LUH from Livefist's article
Indo Russian light copter overdue; India's own speeds up

One of the prototypes ZG-4620 has modified skids. Not sure why.

Open the images in a new window to see full size.
Image

Image

Image

Shameek
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Shameek » 16 Jun 2020 05:02

These would make great police or air ambulance helicopters for crowded cities and states. We have not really had that in India, but with the Kerala police renting a chopper, maybe its a start.

Indranil
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 16 Jun 2020 10:46

Kartik,

It's just not skids, look carefully.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 16 Jun 2020 11:13

It's on tail also.


Harsh Vardhan Thakur
@hvtiaf
Replying to
@KSingh_1469
yes. the fairings reduce vortices.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby SourabhK » 16 Jun 2020 11:32

Indranil wrote:Kartik,

It's just not skids, look carefully.

Is there an IRST over the nose I can see?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby srin » 16 Jun 2020 12:00

Btw, I hadn't noticed the difference in the tail between Dhruv and LUH till now. Interesting.

The horizontal stabilizer on the Dhruv is right on the tai, whereas it has moved ahead in the LUH (similar to Chetak). This provides space for the tail rotor to be below at the tail level in the LUH (again similar to Chetak), instead of higher as in Dhruv.

Can the gurus shed light on the pros and cons of the two approaches ?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 16 Jun 2020 12:18

sankum wrote:It's on tail also.


Harsh Vardhan Thakur
@hvtiaf
Replying to
@KSingh_1469
yes. the fairings reduce vortices.


Ah thanks, that explains it. So we'll likely see it in the production variants too.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 16 Jun 2020 12:23

It was in response to question below Production varients will carry the modifications.


@KSingh_1469
and
@hvtiaf
+
@hvtiaf
it looks like TD1 has some modifications to the skids? Is this something HAL is just testing out? Is this expected to be part of the series production aircraft?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Mollick.R » 16 Jun 2020 12:46

Kartik wrote:Some great shots of the LUH from Livefist's article

Image


The camouflage pattern ( pattern location , pattern shape & size) is ditto on all 3 Helis, albeit colour scheme is different :!:

Is it a decision by choice or HAL is yet to focus on those minute stuffs. :?:

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby KSingh » 16 Jun 2020 19:10

basant wrote:I am confused with the statement made by the HAL CMD.

Providing the first concrete timeline to HAL’s promise on the Dhruv, Madhavan has told Livefist, “I can categorically say that the Dhruv will meet all requirements of the navy. Within 24-36 months from the time an order is placed, we will develop and deliver the product. Our rate of production is also far higher. So project time will be much shorter than what the navy has envisaged in its request for quotation.”


So does HAL want modification of NUH RFQ/RFI or says will match it if is allowed to participate?


Most worrying part of the CMD’s comments were about IMRH imo. He said that the navy is unlikely to be a customer for it, or at least that’s what I took from his comments. Given that we know HAL already has a separate design for the N-IMRH that has been based on navy inputs (it will be 10t instead of the IAF/IA aversions that will be 12-13 ton) and that the navy can work with HAL from outset I cannot fathom why N-IMRH won’t be accepted by them. This is looking like it could be another ALH/NUH debacle in 8-10 years from now.

IA/IAF seem happy to work with HAL (to an extent)- see ALH/LCH/LUH but the so-called “builders navy” always wants to play foul, all this because of a bad experience 20+ years back?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby basant » 16 Jun 2020 19:40

If you recollect the interviews on Livefist, IN does operate ALH Mk3 (Maldives). So not sure what their problem is. Could be issues with automated blade-folding and HAL doesn't seem to be too upset about IN not going with IMRH. It's okay to go ahead with a proper solution instead of 'will get it done eventually' given the decade and half lost and given the current scenario. I believe, unlike IA and IAF, IN did not have the requirement of many ALHs, so in a way it is understandable that Mk1 still rankles them. Bad leadership somewhere, I guess. Unlike TEDBF to replace Mig-29Ks only after 15 years or so they are in a hurry, understandably.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby KSingh » 16 Jun 2020 19:44

basant wrote:If you recollect the interviews on Livefist, IN does operate ALH Mk3 (Maldives). So not sure what their problem is. Could be issues with automated blade-folding and HAL doesn't seem to be too upset about IN not going with IMRH. It's okay to go ahead with a proper solution instead of 'will get it done eventually' given the decade and half lost and given the current scenario. I believe, unlike IA and IAF, IN did not have the requirement of many ALHs, so in a way it is understandable that Mk1 still rankles them. Bad leadership somewhere, I guess. Unlike TEDBF to replace Mig-29Ks only after 15 years or so they are in a hurry, understandably.

123 NMRH will cost $7-10 BILLION USD, this is a huge opportunity to forgo and I still can’t understand why. The navy can work with HAL to get exactly what they want.


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