Indian Military Helicopters

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ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 25 Jan 2021 01:26

Kakkaji wrote:Home-grown rotary wing fleet to be in focus at AeroIndia

NEW DELHI: India plans to showcase its home-grown rotary-wing fleet, which has potential for exports to friendly foreign nations, as a centrepiece of the upcoming AeroIndia show that is set to be attended by over 35 foreign delegations. Indigenous platforms like the Light Combat Helicopter, a weaponised version of the Advanced Light Helicopter as well as the new Light Utility Helicopter (LUH) will be displayed prominently at the three-day show beginning February 3, which will also see a variety of home-grown aircraft flying, including the Tejas fighter jet and two sets of trainers.



Should ask the idiot reporter which tree do helicopters grow on?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ragupta » 25 Jan 2021 06:52

ramana wrote:HAL needs to get paid for the LCH they built. The three will be used for creating operational procedures.


Sure, make it simple, come to agreement on a ball park price, induct what is produced and take the money from the allocated budget for the wing of the armed force, that had put the requirement and is inducting it.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Neela » 25 Jan 2021 15:14

Looking for a reference. Was the 3-stage ALH Dhruv MGB backported into Tiger?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 30 Jan 2021 02:12

An Evening with Wing Commander Unni PIllai (retd) | Unknown tales of HAL's Chief Test Pilot


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Feb 2021 17:32

rajkumar wrote:via Twitter

IOC version of Light Utility Helicopter has been handed over to @IAF_MCC and production of #LUH to commence from Aug'22 in a new facility near #Bengaluru which would replace ageing Cheetah-Chetak: HAL CMD R.Madhavan to @ABPNews

https://twitter.com/neeraj_rajput/statu ... 19266?s=20

if some pvt company had done so..all the media would have been gaga as if they have given their both kidneys..i really like the smooth finish, HAL seems to have upped the game quite a bit!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ArjunPandit » 01 Feb 2021 17:34

ramana wrote:Should ask the idiot reporter which tree do helicopters grow on?

please dont he might say its a fungus on his gravy!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 02:44

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/135 ... 50112?s=20 ---> HAL’s LUH has a great flying set at #AeroIndia2021 — exuding confidence fresh off successful final demos for the Army in Ladakh. The case for a foreign light copter evaporating fast.

Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2021 07:34

https://twitter.com/ReviewVayu/status/1 ... 79264?s=20 ---> The slick HAL Dhruv Mk.4 is here!!!!

Image

Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sooraj » 04 Feb 2021 11:35

Image
Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Suraj » 04 Feb 2021 22:31

Dumb newbie question: What is the service ceiling of the HAL Dhruv, particularly the latest revision ? The above impressive service ceiling the IMRH made me look for it, and I see various numbers in various places, but BR itself claims a rather old figure. Isn't the figure more like 7000m or more ?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 05 Feb 2021 04:25


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 05 Feb 2021 09:34

Any word on the LUH IOC from the ARMY? It was supposed to happen at AI21.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 05 Feb 2021 14:00

Defence secretary confirms ARMY gave IOC for LUH today. :D His speech starts about an hour into the program


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 05 Feb 2021 15:40

https://twitter.com/HALHQBLR/status/1357617818187878406

HAL’s LUH (Army Variant) Receives IOC and ALHs handed over to ICG and IN
Image

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Atmavik » 05 Feb 2021 17:07

not sure if this video of LUH over sichen was posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzZjXz7yh00&t=2s

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rishi_Tri » 05 Feb 2021 19:00

^^IOC for LUH is perhaps as big a news as order for Tejas. We can say goodbye to Ka 226.

May LUH be Everything that the Forces and Nation want it to be.

--Atma Nirbhar Bharat--

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakkaji » 05 Feb 2021 22:48

Indian Navy receives three Mk III Advanced Light Helicopters from HAL

BENGALURU: The Indian Navy has received three "Made in India" advanced light helicopters, customised for coastal security, from the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on Friday. The Mark-III Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) is meant for coastal security.

Out of the 16 Mk-III helicopters, HAL delivered three to Indian Navy Chief Admiral Karambir Singh at Aero India.

The helicopters are fully loaded, multi mission and are fitted with an array of advanced sensors. This will augment the Navy's responsibility for coastal security

The helicopter features a full glass cockpit with HAL's Integrated Architecture Display System (IADS), more powerful "Shakti" (Safran Ardiden 1H1) engines, and a host of new systems.

These helicopters have come up with latest-generation avionics and role equipment. It is primarily meant for use in a shore-based role.

The Mk-III ALH are also equipped with an indigenous low frequency dunking sonar (LFDS) developed by Kochi-based Naval Physical and Oceanographic Laboratory.

The sonar's units are being produced by state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited with a host of sub-vendors downstream.

The aircraft has also a nose-mounted surveillance radar with 270-degree coverage that can detect, classify and track multiple marine targets.

It also has synthetic-aperture radar, inverse synthetic-aperture radar, and moving target indication classification functions.


Question for Gurus: If the role of these helicopters is coastal security, then shouln't all 6 of these have gone to the Coast Guard, instead of 3 to the Navy an 3 to Coast Guard? :-?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby AkshaySG » 05 Feb 2021 23:37

Kakkaji wrote:

Question for Gurus: If the role of these helicopters is coastal security, then shouln't all 6 of these have gone to the Coast Guard, instead of 3 to the Navy an 3 to Coast Guard? :-?



Post 26/11 the Navy was also directed to take on more coastal security roles and work closely with ICG on this initiative ,

Here are few articles which explain the current ICG-IN cooperation and their specific roles in more details

https://www.deccanchronicle.com/nation/ ... ity-a.html

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... s?from=mdr

https://maritimeindia.org/coastal-secur ... ter-26-11/

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakkaji » 06 Feb 2021 01:13

Thanks AkshaySG!

I hope there is no duplication of responsibilities, turf war, or wastage of resources.

I assume these coast-based ALH Mk3 are replacing the Chetaks?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby isubodh » 06 Feb 2021 01:31

<poof>

Admin note: no such comments on this forum.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 06 Feb 2021 01:57

Guys don't be so sensitive. After a long dry period finally, some orders are coming and people are expressing their joy. Let's not get stuffy.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby andy B » 06 Feb 2021 02:05

Suraj wrote:Dumb newbie question: What is the service ceiling of the HAL Dhruv, particularly the latest revision ? The above impressive service ceiling the IMRH made me look for it, and I see various numbers in various places, but BR itself claims a rather old figure. Isn't the figure more like 7000m or more ?


I had to cross check couple of times if it really was you Suraj saan :mrgreen:

From the C-hindu
Two HAL-Turbomeca Shakti turboshaft engines power the 5.5t Dhruv, which has a range of 660km (355nm), and a service ceiling of 14,800ft (4,500m).


https://www.flightglobal.com/paris-air-show-indias-hal-seeks-export-markets-for-helicopters/87078.article

Another important data point:

On one test, the Dhruv Mk III carried 600 kg load to Sonam Post at an altitude of 6,400 meters against the Army’s requirement of 200 kg.


This was the infamous test where the Dhruv smashed the payload to height requirements by a huge margin!

https://www.aviatorsbuzz.com/alh-dhruv-the-underdog/?amp

The range is 630 km, the service ceiling is 6,100m and the rate of climb is 10.33 meters per second.


https://military-wiki.com/hal-dhruv-helicopter-the-indian-pride/?amp

The below data point also notes that Mkiii dhruvs are clearly flying in and arounf siachen at close to 5.5km

The Indian Army has created a world record of sorts as its pilots and technicians successfully recovered a helicopter which was stuck in snow at an altitude of 18,000 feet at Siachen Glacier in Jammu and Kashmir


https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/army-recovers-snow-stuck-helicopter-from-siachen-glacier-sets-new-record/story-uFkOgEeB8A5zV6UUCLe20O_amp.html


Hope the above helps answer!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Suraj » 06 Feb 2021 21:56

Thanks for the research ! When it comes to dishum dishum forum I am generally a newbie :)

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby andy B » 06 Feb 2021 23:21

Suraj wrote:Thanks for the research ! When it comes to dishum dishum forum I am generally a newbie :)


Any time saar! I have learnt much (and shamelessly used the same :mrgreen: ) from the the eco and tech threads! So the least I could do is return a small favour!!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sankum » 07 Feb 2021 01:13

IMRH present IAF version in naval version with rotor and tail folding will have estimated length of 16.3m.
While in NMRH tender required folded length as far as I remember is 15.5m.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kit » 07 Feb 2021 01:35

Rishi_Tri wrote:^^IOC for LUH is perhaps as big a news as order for Tejas. We can say goodbye to Ka 226.

May LUH be Everything that the Forces and Nation want it to be.

--Atma Nirbhar Bharat--


wondering about exactly that , what happens to the Ka226 now

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 07 Feb 2021 05:58

KA-226 order was for only 200 helos for the IA if I remember right, first 60 supplied by the OEM.LUH req. will be around 400 at least,so there's enough room for both types if the money is available. The IN req. is for over 100+ nos. alone and the KA-226's height due to the co-axial rotors requiring higher hangars would preclude it from that req. I would estimate including civvy reqs., a potential total of around 500 nos. excluding exports as this helo priced right could find a lucrative export market too.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 07 Feb 2021 09:31

There is space for both. But why should India go for the 226?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby manjgu » 07 Feb 2021 09:58

Russian political jaziya !! i think there is space for 1000+ LUH ( civil+military)... India shold be looking to export and investing profits in further R&D ... if we just think of our requirements then we are doing great injustice to ourselves..

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 07 Feb 2021 12:45

Def.Ind. news report just in.Indig. content of KA-226 LUH is 33% going up in stages.60 to be bought outright with varying indig.% and 140 built at home.Total 200.The req. was for 40%.indig. content which was holding up finalisation.The IA is seeking a waiver for the initial batch as the req. is extremely urgent,delayed for years.Req. overall for LUH types at least 400.
Whatever LUHs we build ,and the naval req. of 100+ is also a critical one as both IA and IN have been using All-3 desi variants,Chetak,Cheetah,etc. for decades,must be built at speed and high ROPs. At least 16 to 24 helos built/yr. A second line could also be set up with pvt. industry (Tatas make cabins for Sikorsky) to uncrease annual production if HAL is full with orders for ALHs,LCHs,LUHs,KA-226s and their variants,plus development of the med. multirole helo. Great opportunity for helo exports of every type.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 07 Feb 2021 13:14

Philip wrote:Def.Ind. news report just in.Indig. content of KA-226 LUH is 33% going up in stages.60 to be bought outright with varying indig.% and 140 built at home.Total 200.The req. was for 40%.indig. content which was holding up finalisation.The IA is seeking a waiver for the initial batch as the req. is extremely urgent,delayed for years.Req. overall for LUH types at least 400.
Whatever LUHs we build ,and the naval req. of 100+ is also a critical one as both IA and IN have been using All-3 desi variants,Chetak,Cheetah,etc. for decades,must be built at speed and high ROPs. At least 16 to 24 helos built/yr. A second line could also be set up with pvt. industry (Tatas make cabins for Sikorsky) to uncrease annual production if HAL is full with orders for ALHs,LCHs,LUHs,KA-226s and their variants,plus development of the med. multirole helo. Great opportunity for helo exports of every type.


The HAL MD does not sound at all enthused about the prospects of any deal. I think the ARMY may have a tough time convincing the MOD for pushing the deal through. The original decision to split the buy was taken at a time when the LUH was on the CAD screen. Now it is a proven product. We can use our Russian credits for other more needed weapon system.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ka-226t-utility-chopper-has-33-indigenous-content-hal/article33769304.ece

The total indigenous content of the Ka-226T utility helicopters, to be jointly manufactured locally by India and Russia with Transfer of Technology (ToT), is between 27%-33%, said Chairman and Managing Director of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) R. Madhavan. The final deal is held up as the Russian proposal of 62% indigenous content in assembled helicopters falls short of the tender requirement of 70%,“In Ka-226T when we talk of 70% indigenous content, it is not the same as the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) 52%. The 70% is of the Russian content. Engine from Safran and avionics from other countries are not accounted for in this. Balance is what we are looking and from there 70% is taken. Taking the whole helicopter, the indigenous content is about 27-33%,” he said in response to a question from The Hindu at Aero India.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kit » 07 Feb 2021 13:42

Between the HAL LUH and Ka226 ., Scrap the Ka226 deal and go the whole hog for the LUH. Economies of scale will make it even cheaper and easier to export. This is a no brainer.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby arvin » 07 Feb 2021 18:46

With Navy planning to lease Panther helicopters, KA 226 case becomes even more weaker. With wrangling going on over indigenious content, It will eventually become a non-starter. Ideally Kamov should have targeted utility providers or farming companies for this jack of all trades.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 07 Feb 2021 19:13

At the Helo India seminar( video is available above), Air Marshall Tiwari indicates that LUh numbers could be up to 400 depending on the Kamov deal's fate. So this now not just a jingo fantasy but it is actually being talked about in official circles.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kit » 07 Feb 2021 19:49

Bharadwaj wrote:At the Helo India seminar( video is available above), Air Marshall Tiwari indicates that LUh numbers could be up to 400 depending on the Kamov deal's fate. So this now not just a jingo fantasy but it is actually being talked about in official circles.


So why the question about not dumping the Kamov ? What is there to talk about ? Why is it even under consideration now ? Are we missing anything else

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bharadwaj » 07 Feb 2021 20:01

kit wrote:
Bharadwaj wrote:At the Helo India seminar( video is available above), Air Marshall Tiwari indicates that LUh numbers could be up to 400 depending on the Kamov deal's fate. So this now not just a jingo fantasy but it is actually being talked about in official circles.


So why the question about not dumping the Kamov ? What is there to talk about ? Why is it even under consideration now ? Are we missing anything else


Dunno Kit. Maybe the twin engine config/co axial rotors has benefits at altitude or perhaps the ARMY is wowed by the modular system.Sure beats any publicly available logic.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Prasad » 08 Feb 2021 09:18


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 08 Feb 2021 13:10

Philip wrote:KA-226 order was for only 200 helos for the IA if I remember right, first 60 supplied by the OEM.LUH req. will be around 400 at least,so there's enough room for both types if the money is available. The IN req. is for over 100+ nos. alone and the KA-226's height due to the co-axial rotors requiring higher hangars would preclude it from that req. I would estimate including civvy reqs., a potential total of around 500 nos. excluding exports as this helo priced right could find a lucrative export market too.


With indigenous content drama what is the case for KA-226 when LUH is certified?
How can we constantly bat for Russian extortion?
Fir that $1B can set up new LUH factory and produce 400 +200 there.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby RKumar » 08 Feb 2021 14:52

^ So that we can khichdi of LUH in 3 services and keeping the maintenance a mess. And we import more to have enough birds in the air.

Logic is being reversed - Let's buy a helicopter which is in the bush than in the hand - all hail external Fatherland! :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 09 Feb 2021 05:28

Sorry. Dont make sense.
Please don't use emojis.

Navy will lease those Panthers than agree to HAL.

Then it becomes IA and IAF replacing the chetaks.

If Kamov plays games then all will be LUH.


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