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Indian Military Helicopters

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Indranil
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 12 Oct 2017 10:52

Absolutely. Heli pilots here must be flying by "feel". Just like somebody said, "it is like balancing on a beach ball". You will be providing very quick and small inputs continuously to stay on top. If you were asked to explain why and what you were doing, you won't be able to. The human mind is incredible at this. Another case in point, the simple exercise of walking!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 12 Oct 2017 12:54

The image posted by shiv, is an absolute beauty. Both the pilot and the chopper are at balanced at a knife an edge.

The level of skills required to do that are incredible.

Hats off to the guys who do that on a daily basis.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nam » 12 Oct 2017 16:06

Indranil wrote:Absolutely. Heli pilots here must be flying by "feel". Just like somebody said, "it is like balancing on a beach ball". You will be providing very quick and small inputs continuously to stay on top. If you were asked to explain why and what you were doing, you won't be able to. The human mind is incredible at this. Another case in point, the simple exercise of walking!


All someone needs to do is get a toy RC helicopter to understand how difficult it is to fly a helicopter.

Landing a toy helicopter requires good skill and lot of practice. I can only imagine the effort required to mange a 3 ton machine!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 12 Oct 2017 16:14

nam wrote:...

All someone needs to do is get a toy RC helicopter to understand how difficult it is to fly a helicopter.

Landing a toy helicopter requires good skill and lot of practice. I can only imagine the effort required to mange a 3 ton machine!


Its a piece of cake Sir, a piece of cake. :D And a whole lot of fun too.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nam » 12 Oct 2017 16:24

Not for us mere mortals, sir!

Fun definitely. :D

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 12 Oct 2017 18:32

Pratyush wrote:The image posted by shiv,

Actually posted by one "rotormagic" on Twitter who seems to have some connection with helicopters

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 12 Oct 2017 18:53

That is me Shiv Ji but I guess you already know. :D

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 12 Oct 2017 19:01

Shiv and deejay both thanks for the image regardless.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 12 Oct 2017 19:03

deejay wrote:That is me Shiv Ji but I guess you already know. :D

Of course - just my way of confirming that you don't mind your separate handles being known across forums.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby pandyan » 12 Oct 2017 20:21

Only time i went in a helicopter was when we took a tour over Grand Canyon. It was not exactly a fun trip. When flying in the canyons, it was very bumpy/choppy ride with lot of vibration and noise. I am happy to say that I didn't throwup inside the chopper; only after i came out...ran straight to the restroom :oops:

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 13 Oct 2017 17:59

More specific to the IN td.but the make-in-India tag i why its posted here.
No mention of the NH-90 though,another eligible helo for the ASW role,v.popular with many navies.It is also news that the KA-226 has passed IN trials.One thought that despite there being a naval version,what the IN wanted was a light helowith ASW capability,able to carry LWT torpedoes and dunking sonars.No idea ifthis is just for commn./utility purposes.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news ... s-revealed
Big Indian Navy Requirement for Helicopters Revealed
by Neelam Mathews
- October 12, 2017, 10:57 AM
The Indian Navy has revealed an intention to procure approximately 111 Naval Utility Helicopters (NUH) and 123 Naval Multi-role Helicopters (MRH). The responses to two requests for information (RFI) documents by the Indian Ministry of Defence were due last week. The two projects are partially a restatement of earlier requirements that were never realized. They both require indigenous manufacture under Delhi’s “Make in India” requirements.

The MRH will replace the Indian Navy’s Sea Kings, and is to be procured in two versions. One will perform anti-submarine warfare (ASW), anti-surface warfare (ASuW), electronic intelligence-gathering, and search and rescue (SAR). The other will be for special operations, including anti-piracy missions, combat SAR and humanitarian operations.

In December 2014, the MoD chose the Sikorsky S-70B to meet an interim ASW/ASuW requirement, but a contract was never signed, since pricing could not be agreed. But a defense official told AIN that Sikorsky was still the “natural” choice, especially since it seemed that neither Leonardo nor NH Industries (which produces the NH-90 and is part-owned by Leonardo) would be allowed to bid, following the AW101 procurement scandal. When asked by AIN whether this was indeed the case, Leonardo’s head office for helicopters in Italy did not respond. Airbus Helicopters is another likely contender.

The NUH will replace aging Cheetahs and Chetaks. A previous requirement for only 56 such helicopters was cancelled in October 2014. The new request calls for the NUH to perform SAR, medical evacuation, communications, anti-piracy missions, humanitarian assistance and disaster relief. The initial NUH acquisition will comprise 15 “basic” versions. The remaining 96, according to think tank Indian Defense Research Wing, are “required to have sub-surface mission capabilities, which means the whole fleet of Indian Navy’s Next Generation Naval Utility Helicopters will have torpedo-carrying capabilities.”

“The indigenous portion of the procurement is to be manufactured in India based on designs to be provided by the foreign OEM to the selected strategic partner,” said the RFI. The OEM must maximize the local content. But an analyst told AIN that government-owned Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) might still be eligible . It is in partnership with Rostec Corp for the supply of 197 Russian KA-226T helicopters to the Indian army and air force. A ship-based version of the Ka-226T has passed trials, and “nowhere does the [Indian Navy] RFI say this is meant only for the private sector,” the analyst added.

Additional reporting by Chris Pocock

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Viv S » 13 Oct 2017 18:53

Philip wrote:More specific to the IN td.but the make-in-India tag i why its posted here.
No mention of the NH-90 though,another eligible helo for the ASW role,v.popular with many navies.

Both Australia & Sweden having already received NH-90s, went ahead and ordered the S-60/70. Many others have issues with reliability & serviceability (though they've probably been ironed out by now, for the most part).

It is also news that the KA-226 has passed IN trials.One thought that despite there being a naval version,what the IN wanted was a light helowith ASW capability,able to carry LWT torpedoes and dunking sonars.

It says a ship-based model has passed trials. Doesn't say IN trials (likely referring to OEM/RuN trials).

A government source told Mail Today that “as the strategic partnership policy has been cleared by the government, an Expression of Interest would be issued to the Indian firms by the Defence Ministry in the next few weeks to buy 110 copters, which would be under the ‘Made in India’ project.” The source added that the old Kamov 226T does not meet the requirements of the Navy and so new tender would be required for buying these light utility helicopters.

- Indian Express

The Indian Navy has begun its process of acquiring 110 light utility helicopters after rejecting Russia's Kamov Ka-226T, which are being built for the Air Force and Army, according to a Ministry of Defence official.

"The Kamov 226T does not have blade folding and cannot be fitted inside a ship's hangar. Moreover, it is not suitable to carry the torpedoes, which is the mandatory requirement," said an Indian Navy official.

- Defense News

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Cybaru » 14 Oct 2017 01:43

french-defence-giant-safran-keen-to-supply-engines-to-hal-for-indigenous-helicopter

http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/economy/logistics/french-defence-giant-safran-keen-to-supply-engines-to-hal-for-indigenous-helicopter/article9904767.ece
...

Safran Helicopter Engines, manufacturer of gas-turbine engines for both civil and military helicopters, is developing a new family of high-power engines called Aneto

HAL aims to develop the 12tonne-class Indian Multi-Role Helicopter (IMRH), which will be designed to offer a service ceiling of around 20,000 feet, 3,500-kg payload with a seating capacity of 24.

RFI relates to turbo shaft engines, assistance with development of a blade-folding system and external reviews of the 12-tonne rotorcraft’s landing gear and transmission.

....

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 14 Oct 2017 11:05

Excellant news, So Naval ALH and IMRH plus LUH can take care of Navy's huge requirement of helicopters.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 14 Oct 2017 12:22

IMRH is nowhere in contention,has never flown,only a mock-up unveiled and a dedicated naval multi-role helo will take years to perfect There was a report somewhere which said that the IN was not interested in it.Its needs are immediate.

Reg. KA--226.Larger KA-28/31s are being used,can't reason why the much smaller KA-226 can't fit the bill,fit int a hangar with its co-axial rotors.unfortunately,one hasn't seen a naval variant with sonar and torpedo carrying ability. There are other similar western options for the LUH req.Unfortunately,AW shot itself in the foot with the VVIP scandal.The AW-101 is a fab helo The NH-90 should stand a chance as there is little talk now about flaws and it is a more modern bird.20 yrs. younger than the S-70.First helo to have FBW controls.More than 300 in service.The Seahawk deal floundered over claims of excessive cost.Can't see how that will go down positively in the future.We were going to pay $!B for 16 helos,working out to round 50-60M a unit.

The NH-90 was disqualified earlier being tagged along with the AW group,but NH is an Airbus controlled industry which had partners like Leonardo (AW) and Fokker.Most European manufacturers have multi-national partnerships and it would be impossible to acquire anything from Europe if such overwhelming sanctions are imposed. AW belonging to the larger group,saw that the deal for Blackshark torpedoes got cancelled even though there is no direct connection between the two cos.Our Scorpenes are now languishing becos of this. The BS was chosen over the German SeaHake which we may now acquire which Pak has been using for a long time!

Eurocopter is another option.Indonesia ordered the Panther,The AW-159 won the SoKo order against the MH-60R Seahawk.Becos of the AW backlisting,unlikely,though a v,good helo.Kamov are upgrading their KA-27/28 veterans,we're upgrading all of them and they should be appearing on the 4 extra Talwars when they arrive.

The dark horse I think is the Airbus EC-725 for the heavy MR req. First flew in 2000,and as the report below says,Fr. is willing to set up a manufacturing unit here if the deal is struck.Two reports here.

By 2015, the EC725, since re-designated as the H225M, was being manufactured on two separate production lines in France and Brazil. In July 2015, Airbus Helicopters announced that it was considering setting up a third assembly line in India if the firm was successful at winning an Indian tender for naval helicopters.[4]


The EC725 has been submitted to the Indian Navy's Naval Multi-Role Helicopter (NMRH) competition, seeking 120 helicopters to replace its aging Westland Sea King fleet.[40][41] In October 2015, Indian authorities were holding discussions to finalize a deal for 14 H225s for the Indian Coast Guard. Media reports note that Airbus was in the lead to win the contract, having made a lower financial bid than rival Sikorsky for their S-92. The submitted bid complies with a 30% offset clause, requiring Airbus to invest Rs.600 crore of the Rs.2000 crore bid in India's defense and aerospace manufacturing sector.[42]

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rishi_Tri » 15 Oct 2017 22:01

http://www.janes.com/article/74840/safr ... rotorcraft

IMRH Mock up was revealed end 2016. Design should be advanced by now. Given that Heli division does pleasantly surprise, IMRH may fly in 12-15 months.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Khalsa » 17 Oct 2017 01:52

shiv wrote:Wonder which book this pilot was consulting?
https://twitter.com/rotormagic/status/9 ... 1301079040
Image

HOLY HELL !!

I can't believe I am seeing this.
Yaar isko Gold Medal doh please. Mein Iski Pooja Karunga.

These guys must have brass balls.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 17 Oct 2017 10:12

There is no flying prototype as yet,apart from a dedicated naval version which would require a lot of variations in materials used due to the salty marine environment.Airborne search radars,dunking sonars,dropping sonobuoys,hull shaped for landing on the water,capable of carrying at least two torpedoes,depth charges,mines,anti-ship missiles,anti-sub consoles aboard,etc. This is going to take an enormous time to develop and perfect.Look at how long LCA weapons testing has taken,more than a few years. The IN's need is yesterday,it can't wait endlessly for a product in the "bush".It has identified a few birds in the "hand",available today.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 17 Oct 2017 11:20

Khalsa wrote:...
HOLY HELL !!

I can't believe I am seeing this.
Yaar isko Gold Medal doh please. Mein Iski Pooja Karunga.

These guys must have brass balls.


I may be wrong but from what I have learnt the pilot did get a medal for this.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 17 Oct 2017 12:37

Deejay sir can you give some details on what that Op was.. that's the perfect example of living on the knives rotors edge

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 17 Oct 2017 13:00

Philip wrote:There is no flying prototype as yet,apart from a dedicated naval version which would require a lot of variations in materials used due to the salty marine environment.Airborne search radars,dunking sonars,dropping sonobuoys,hull shaped for landing on the water,capable of carrying at least two torpedoes,depth charges,mines,anti-ship missiles,anti-sub consoles aboard,etc. This is going to take an enormous time to develop and perfect.Look at how long LCA weapons testing has taken,more than a few years. The IN's need is yesterday,it can't wait endlessly for a product in the "bush".It has identified a few birds in the "hand",available today.



Yeah, yeah, yeah Filipov. Let me guess your next suggestion: buy more Kamovs.

The IMRH will come before we even finish negotiating with Russia for this new duplicate effort. And we haven’t even finished setting up the lines for the fvcking 200 KA-226s that will eat into LUH sales.

Let us keep the medium lift market for the IMRH. PLEASE, Filipov.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 17 Oct 2017 13:09

Manish_P wrote:Deejay sir can you give some details on what that Op was.. that's the perfect example of living on the knives rotors edge


I don't have the details. It was a rescue of a climber I am told (if we are talking of the same incident - which most probably we are) on twitter. BTW, the pilot would then be brother of someone who posted here.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 17 Oct 2017 13:22

deejay wrote:
Manish_P wrote:Deejay sir can you give some details on what that Op was.. that's the perfect example of living on the knives rotors edge


I don't have the details. It was a rescue of a climber I am told (if we are talking of the same incident - which most probably we are) on twitter. BTW, the pilot would then be brother of someone who posted here.


Really! Brother of someone at BR? Photo is brilliant.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 17 Oct 2017 13:50

chola wrote:
deejay wrote:
I don't have the details. It was a rescue of a climber I am told (if we are talking of the same incident - which most probably we are) on twitter. BTW, the pilot would then be brother of someone who posted here.


Really! Brother of someone at BR? Photo is brilliant.


Yes, the poster has permitted me to share his name - The poster is Arun_S and the pilot is his elder brother then Flt Lt and later Air Cmde Pravin K Sharma and he was awarded Vayu Sena Medal for the bravery and skill. I am also told that the photo featured in the book the climber later gifted to Air Cmde Sharma. One person was distinctly unhappy with the photo and the pilot's "bone-headedness"- his wife :D

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 17 Oct 2017 13:56

deejay wrote:
chola wrote:
Really! Brother of someone at BR? Photo is brilliant.


Yes, the poster has permitted me to share his name - The poster is Arun_S and the pilot is his elder brother then Flt Lt and later Air Cmde Pravin K Sharma and he was awarded Vayu Sena Medal for the bravery and skill. I am also told that the photo featured in the book the climber later gifted to Air Cmde Sharma. One person was distinctly unhappy with the photo and the pilot's "bone-headedness"- his wife :D



Wow! Congrats to Arun for having such a brother! And of course, congrats to Air Cmde Sharma himself!

I can imagine his wife’s reaction in seeing that picture with the rotor blades inches from the mountainside.

Many thanks for posting, Deejay!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 17 Oct 2017 14:14

Wow. Thanks Sir. Such a treat to see such rare pics and to hear about the events behind them. I am crossing fingers that BR hasn't lost the old posts.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ranjan.rao » 17 Oct 2017 14:38

deejay wrote:
chola wrote:
Really! Brother of someone at BR? Photo is brilliant.


Yes, the poster has permitted me to share his name - The poster is Arun_S and the pilot is his elder brother then Flt Lt and later Air Cmde Pravin K Sharma and he was awarded Vayu Sena Medal for the bravery and skill. I am also told that the photo featured in the book the climber later gifted to Air Cmde Sharma. One person was distinctly unhappy with the photo and the pilot's "bone-headedness"- his wife :D

I have seen guys refusing to take bikes between two trucks because their hands shake(even though there is plenty of space) and this is taking things to a different plane altogether.
I thought the pilot will be a IA-AAC

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 17 Oct 2017 21:49

Manish_P wrote:Wow. Thanks Sir. Such a treat to see such rare pics and to hear about the events behind them. I am crossing fingers that BR hasn't lost the old posts.


Hi Manish, would really appreciate if you could drop the Sir.

Fortunately for me Arun_ S ji has shared a link from BRF database of the citation which I am sure can only be for this photo. Pls check link and read as quoted.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/17465

Sqn Ldr PK Sharma was commissioned in Jun 84. He is a senior staff pilot on the posted strength of a Helicopter Unit since 14 Feb 91.

Late at night on 23 Jun 92, the unit was called upon to undertake an urgent casualty air evacuation mission for Mr. Vincent Venable a member of Indo-British Mountaineering Expedition, who had suffered multiple fractures during the descent and lay immobile on the steep icy slopes at a height of over 18000 feet. Sqn Ldr PK Sharma with his co-pilot was detailed for this rescue mission. The weather was bad and locating the injured person became very difficult. By persistent effort despite bad weather, he spotted the mountaineers perched on a steep and treacherous slope. By that time the wind had picked up and menacing dark clouds surrounded the area. The steep slope offered no suitable place to land. Considering the deteriorating weather condition and unpredictable cloud shifts, he took a bold decision to touch down next to the injured man. While one pilot precariously held the machine in place with right ski touching the slope, the other opened the door and assisted Mr. Venable in boarding the helicopter safely.

By sheer dint of courage, professionalism and airmanship of very high order, the seemingly impossible task was made possible. It was a superb display of joint team work requiring extraordinary synchronous co-ordination on part of both the pilots.

For his professionalism of exceptional courage, the President is pleased to award Vayu Sena Medal to Sqn Ldr Pravin Kumar Sharma.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 17 Oct 2017 23:40

How useless our lives have been compared to the glory and accomplishments of men like these.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Khalsa » 18 Oct 2017 01:08

Vivek K wrote:How useless our lives have been compared to the glory and accomplishments of men like these.

and dying in our beds many years from now.... would we be willing for once chance, just once chance ?
I think you know the rest

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 18 Oct 2017 12:04

deejay wrote:
Hi Manish, would really appreciate if you could drop the Sir.

Fortunately for me Arun_ S ji has shared a link from BRF database of the citation which I am sure can only be for this photo. Pls check link and read as quoted.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/17465

Sqn Ldr PK Sharma was commissioned in Jun 84. He is a senior staff pilot on the posted strength of a Helicopter Unit since 14 Feb 91.

Late at night on 23 Jun 92, the unit was called upon to undertake an urgent casualty air evacuation mission for Mr. Vincent Venable a member of Indo-British Mountaineering Expedition, who had suffered multiple fractures during the descent and lay immobile on the steep icy slopes at a height of over 18000 feet. Sqn Ldr PK Sharma with his co-pilot was detailed for this rescue mission. The weather was bad and locating the injured person became very difficult. By persistent effort despite bad weather, he spotted the mountaineers perched on a steep and treacherous slope. By that time the wind had picked up and menacing dark clouds surrounded the area. The steep slope offered no suitable place to land. Considering the deteriorating weather condition and unpredictable cloud shifts, he took a bold decision to touch down next to the injured man.While one pilot precariously held the machine in place with right ski touching the slope, the other opened the door and assisted Mr. Venable in boarding the helicopter safely.

By sheer dint of courage, professionalism and airmanship of very high order, the seemingly impossible task was made possible. It was a superb display of joint team work requiring extraordinary synchronous co-ordination on part of both the pilots.

For his professionalism of exceptional courage, the President is pleased to award Vayu Sena Medal to Sqn Ldr Pravin Kumar Sharma.


Oh dear god!

I consider myself reasonably fit and agile, but at times find it hard to balance on the foot-board of crowded buses and local trains (perks of living in Mumbai) and here the co-pilot nonchalantly opens his door and gives a hand to lift a heavily geared mountaineer while leaning out under the rotor wash of a heli being buffeted by strong icy winds, with the rotor blades inches away from the inclined mountain slope... Oh dear god :shock:

Awesome pilot for sure...but amazing co-pilot too. My salute to that gent too.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 18 Oct 2017 18:56

I think the gent in question is Arun S brother. Or a relative

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 18 Oct 2017 20:25

I was referring to the brave unknown (to me) co-pilot, Shiv ji.

Unless i have read the post by Deejay sir wrong, Air Commodore P Sharma, the pilot, is the brother of BRF poster Arun_S.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Gagan » 23 Oct 2017 09:15

Wow! Amazing feat!!

Pilots do one ski touchdowns on some posts in Siachen fairly routinely.
Some posts are helicopter supported mainly.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Shubham » 29 Oct 2017 17:09

Regarding recent Mi17 accident in arunachal, a video has surfaced on net
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/video-said-to-show-moments-of-arunachal-air-force-helicopter-crash-that-killed-7-military-personnel-1768464?amp=1&akamai-rum=off

The remarks of CAS were indeed correct, the tail rotor separated moments later as an entangled parachute/cord got stuck in tail rotor and the whole tail rotor hub has sheared off.

Question is why that rouge parachute opened like that. Pilots were doing what they should and once parachute malfunctioned, they were sadly doomed. There is nothing much anyone can do in tail rotor failure especially at that altitude.


Sar par kafan bandh ke jaate hai, kya pata kab zarrorat padh jaye .

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 29 Oct 2017 19:23

I am a little angry at this video being released. We shouldn't make a national spectacle of moments of our soldiers death. Can you imagine what their families may be feeling to see the death of their loved ones played again and again on national TV!!!!

I want to discuss this with Deejay. But not here, not now. Deejay, please email me at indranilr at googal chacha's mail dat kaum.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JTull » 29 Oct 2017 20:01

I understand the anguish, but this kind of information is needed to stop any speculation. I, myself, have been guilty of speculating on real reasons in the past.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 29 Oct 2017 20:04

^ The Chief had given the information on this. Exactly what the video shows.

Indranil check email.

shiv
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 29 Oct 2017 21:25

If the info is not released someone will say "Chinese cyber warfare" and promptly have a pant browning episode. Even object hitting tail could be Chinese cyberwar - starting from butterfly in Beijing, remember.

Pratyush
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 30 Oct 2017 09:45

shiv wrote:If the info is not released someone will say "Chinese cyber warfare" and promptly have a pant browning episode. Even object hitting tail could be Chinese cyberwar - starting from butterfly in Beijing, remember.

You have a way with words that speak truth in the simplest way.


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