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Indian Military Helicopters

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Khalsa » 30 Oct 2017 12:10

shiv wrote:If the info is not released someone will say "Chinese cyber warfare" and promptly have a pant browning episode. Even object hitting tail could be Chinese cyberwar - starting from butterfly in Beijing, remember.


I agree, the Dhoti Shiver started when a AN-32 went down followed by a flanker after a couple of years.
It is terrible and I understand what causes Indranil to feel that way, I respect his feelings but better that its out there.

The video editing by the media houses can be sensitive and stop just after the tail rotor is affected.

Google B52 crash air display
this was a major B52 crash and originally the whole video was out there.
However the media trimmed to just before it goes into an unrecoverable turn.
Last edited by Khalsa on 31 Oct 2017 00:01, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Mollick.R » 30 Oct 2017 18:56

del.
Last edited by Rahul M on 01 Nov 2017 23:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: OT

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2017 07:12


shiv
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2017 07:13

Mollick.R wrote:Not sure if this belongs to this thread or not.
Admin may please remove it if it doesn't fits in this thread.

With respect, the title of the thread is "Indian Military Helicopters"

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 01 Nov 2017 09:25

Stalled & Drifting, Russia Rushes To Kickstart Ka-226T Deal
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/10 ... -deal.html

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Khalsa » 01 Nov 2017 14:18



ah you beat me to this.
RESPECT to the pairs of brass balls riding in the front seats.
Respect, Also to the engine and the craft.

Make in India !!!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 01 Nov 2017 14:26



Just another day in the office. So smoothly and efficiently done. The guy with the camera was vibrating and shaking more than the helicopter :)

Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2017 16:11

Sauravjha has the whole thing on YouTube - but I have not located it yet..

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 01 Nov 2017 16:13

shiv wrote:Sauravjha has the whole thing on YouTube - but I have not located it yet..


Check the Delhi Defence Review channel on YouTube:


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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 01 Nov 2017 16:38

deejay wrote:
shiv wrote:Sauravjha has the whole thing on YouTube - but I have not located it yet..


Check the Delhi Defence Review channel on YouTube:



Thanks deejay. What is absolutely kick ass about this is that with the starboard skid hovering a couple of feet above ground a total of five men get on the skid to transfer the casualty up - but the helo does not tilt an inch. Rock steady.

An AAC pilot evacuating a Cas
had balls that were made of brass
In stormy weather, they clashed together
..but the lightning came out of my ass


..just sayin

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 01 Nov 2017 16:40

shiv wrote:...
An AAC pilot evacuating a Cas
had balls that were made of brass
In stormy weather, they clashed together
..but the lightning came out of my ass


..just sayin[/quote]

Yeah! KICKASS! :D

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 01 Nov 2017 17:49

Deejay sir,
A quick doubt. What kind of weight penalty does a winch on a chopper incur??? Would it be too much of a concern for a unit operating in the Himalayas, for eg??

Considering that the chopper had plenty of clearance but no place to land, a winch would have enabled a much more safer recovery of the casualty, I feel. Does take out a lot of the risk especially in such conditions.

shiv wrote:...
An AAC pilot evacuating a Cas
had balls that were made of brass
In stormy weather, they clashed together
..but the lightning came out of my ass

:eek: :lol: :P

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 01 Nov 2017 18:55

Bala Vignesh wrote:Deejay sir,
A quick doubt. What kind of weight penalty does a winch on a chopper incur??? Would it be too much of a concern for a unit operating in the Himalayas, for eg??

Considering that the chopper had plenty of clearance but no place to land, a winch would have enabled a much more safer recovery of the casualty, I feel. Does take out a lot of the risk especially in such conditions.

shiv wrote:...
An AAC pilot evacuating a Cas
had balls that were made of brass
In stormy weather, they clashed together
..but the lightning came out of my ass

:eek: :lol: :P


Good Point. Winch is not very heavy (at least does not look like a limiting factor as the helicopter was doing OGE hover). Maybe the helicopter was the closest available but did not have a winch.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 02 Nov 2017 05:01

Deejay: On that note (because I saw the video like everyone else) can paradrops happen while the Mi-17 (or any helo) is hovering? Would that damage the payload being dropped (one over the other)? In this case it was kerosene.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 02 Nov 2017 09:21

Rakesh wrote:Deejay: On that note (because I saw the video like everyone else) can paradrops happen while the Mi-17 (or any helo) is hovering? Would that damage the payload being dropped (one over the other)? In this case it was kerosene.


Paradrops can happen while hovering but there will be severe load penalty. In fact OGE hover for para drop will require more power (hence lesser load) than landing at that place. Meaning, it is better to land and drop the load than para drop from hover.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 02 Nov 2017 11:25

India And Russia To Sign Contract For The Overhaul Of Mi-26 Choppers

New Delhi: India and Russia are set to sign a contract soon for the overhaul of three Mi-26 helicopters for the Indian Air Force, with Moscow also offering long-term maintenance service for IAF's Mi-17 choppers, a Russian official has said.

Russian Helicopters, a part of Rostec State Corporation, is negotiating the financial and technical details of the contract for these overhauls with the Indian side, the official said.

In October, Russian Helicopters completed the repairs of five Mi-17 helicopters and will deliver these to India in the near future for flight tests and repair acceptance.

According to a contract with Rosoboronexport, 30 units of Mi-17 helicopters will be repaired by mid-2018. The repairs will be done in six stages -- five units for each.

The Russians have also offered overhaul service for two Mi-35 helicopters, repair and modernisation of five Ka-31 choppers operated by the Indian Navy, as well as offered to India a long-term agreement for repair and maintenance of the Mi-17 helicopters.

India is one of the largest operators of Russian-made helicopters.

The Mi-17 helicopter fleet of the IAF currently has more than 250 choppers.

The Mi-26, the world's largest load-lifting helicopter, is widely used throughout the world for carrying out transport, evacuation, and fire prevention tasks.

The Mi-26 is capable of transporting up to 20 tonnes of cargo inside its fuselage or on an external suspension.

Russia's Rostec State Corporation was established in 2007 to facilitate development, production and export of high-tech industrial products designed for civilian and military applications. The Corporation comprises over 700 organisations.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 02 Nov 2017 14:07

Well I thought these Mi-26 were due to retire once the Chinooks become operational but there could always be case of lifting Bulldozers etc to High altitude areas where the Chinook can't

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 02 Nov 2017 15:26

I suspect the NLUH is S-76 for taking its being put in class where neither Dhruv with 4-5 T class or LUH with 2-2.5 T can compete doesnt matter if its single or twin enigine , The S-76 falls in 3-3.5 T class and is in the sweet spot its already navalised and operationalised

I still dont get what is the sweet spot of 3.5 T class considering IAF operated the Cheetak class and Dhruv would still be in ~ 4.5 T class would adding 1 T make a big difference for the Navy in terms of deployment when its an Indian made chopper ? What about logistics part of IAF/IA/IN operating different chopper in Light Class ?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 02 Nov 2017 15:35

^Sir, over sea - distance from base will be key in determining Single vs Twin and also reflects on possible roles for the helicopter.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 02 Nov 2017 16:20

deejay wrote:^Sir, over sea - distance from base will be key in determining Single vs Twin and also reflects on possible roles for the helicopter.


deejay , I am asking why the 3.5 T qualification that rules out Dhruv or LUH choice , The distance from base etc is fine so is single or twin engine but the whole game of getting Foreign competitory via RFP that rules our either the HAL LUH/Ka-226 or Dhurv is mind boggling

Why is that IN cant standardise on Naval Dhruv and for 10-12 T class go for other class via Lic prod model to replace the Sea King/Ka-27

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby deejay » 02 Nov 2017 16:21

Dhruv is not ruled out. It is in contention. I am seriously miffed with the foreigners in this. Call me Xenophobic.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby abhik » 02 Nov 2017 22:34

deejay wrote:Dhruv is not ruled out. It is in contention. I am seriously miffed with the foreigners in this. Call me Xenophobic.

That's like saying LCA is a contender for Single engine MII. It has been marked for "Strategic Partnership" i.e.
1. A foreign helicopter will be chosen with transfer of screwdrivergiri tech
2. A big private chorporate group will chosen to torque the screws.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 03 Nov 2017 05:01

Though I have not (in the past) looked at the Dhruv-N with much favour tx to its sub-std. naval features,the LUH-N req. also adding ASW features beggars the Q "why not give Dhruv a second chance?",simply becos the hangars can now accomodate a Dhruv with folding blades,plus it will have more space for ASW eqpt.,carry two not one LWT and have greater range ,payload,endurance than any L UH.
The naval LUH order could be split with the smaller bird tasked for the utilitarian tasks like commons. duties,etc.Dhruv-N would be a dedicated ASW helo in the med. class,we'll suited for our smaller corvette and FFGs.In addition,on those warships that can accommodate two heavy SK types,with the limited no. of large multi-role helos, these ships could in the interim carry one heavy and one Dhruv.Dhruv-N could also carry the smaller anti-ship missiles which the IN has been looking around for.

The Q is whether the IN and HAL can get their act together.After all it takes two hands to clap.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 03 Nov 2017 07:49

abhik wrote:1. A foreign helicopter will be chosen with transfer of screwdrivergiri tech
2. A big private chorporate group will chosen to torque the screws.

Isn't this exactly the problem with us as a nation?
1. Foreign imports should not be allowed
2. Existing corporates are called thieves
3. DRDO/PSUs are inefficient

But we don't have answers. Only critiques.

RM Nirmala Sitharaman said pretty much the same thing to IAF. She said "Stop whining. Suggest solutions"

But we whined even before that - we said "Oh Parikkar was much better"

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby abhik » 03 Nov 2017 17:06

^^^
SP doesn't solve any problems unless you think private / foreign companies not getting a piece of the pie is a problem.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 04 Nov 2017 13:38

deejay wrote:Dhruv is not ruled out. It is in contention. I am seriously miffed with the foreigners in this. Call me Xenophobic.


Dhruv is no where in contention else they woulndt have this RFP thinge in first place.

Why would GOI place RFP so that it can negotiate a better price with HAL for N-Dhruv ?

Lets not fool ourself unless this Tender Process gets cancelled NUH would be a foreign helicopter , IN has deliberately put its requirement in 3-3.5 T class where neither IAF LUH or HAL Dhruv will meet its requirement its a sweet spot to rule out both

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 04 Nov 2017 14:45

I'm not so sure that the aim is to shaft HAL!
The Allouette 3 platform which we modified into Chetaks,etc. is an SE helo. The demands of helos on IN warships today have increased a lot.Subs have greater endurance,can attack with both torpedoes and missiles from greater ranges and are becoming more difficult to detect.Larger warships require dedicated SK type multi-role helos.Our smaller OPVs ASW corvettes and deck-only
K class combatants require such twin-engines light helos with better performance than the legacy birds.Perhaps even the 16 inshore ASW corvettes could also have an open deck for light helo ops.Carriers require small helos for plane guard duties too. Had Dhruv-N worked out perhaps we would've seen a doz. or two ordered. The more capable MRH req will absorb that need and upgraded Kamovs wi/31s serve aboard all Talwar/Tegs and the carriers.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 03 Dec 2017 02:44

Production Of Kamov Helicopters For India To Be Done In 4 Stages: Russian Official
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/product ... al-1782804

The production of 200 Kamov light weight multi-role military helicopters for India will be done in four stages to ensure the transfer of technology for its main components under the Indo-Russian joint venture, a senior official for the programme has said. Under the Indo-Russia joint venture, 200 Kamov 226T helicopters will be produced out of which 60 would be supplied to India in fly-away condition. One hundred forty helicopters will be manufactured in India under a USD 1 billion deal inked in 2015. "The project will be implemented on the basis of an inter-governmental agreement, under which the Russian side has taken the obligation to transfer technology and achievement of the highest possible level of localisation in the customer's country," Dmitriy Shvets, director of Kamov-226T programme said here.

"By that, we mean that within the localisation there will be four stages for production from of transferring technology to production of helicopters and its main components," Dmitriy Shvets said. According to officials of Russian Helicopters, the first stage includes the delivery of assembled helicopters from Russia. The second stage includes delivery of joint venture helicopter components and preparation for localisation, technology transfer and technical assistance. The third stage is the production of components from supplied materials and assembly. The fourth stage is full assembly of helicopters from components with materials produced locally or delivered from Russia and involves customer personnel joint training and infrastructure setup of service and maintenance center.

When asked to clarify the share percentage of Russian and locally produced components, Dmitriy Shvets said, "As per the intergovernmental agreement the Russian side has taken the obligation to transfer technology and achievement of highest possible level of localisation. To implement the project we have to comply with certain legal framework of the country. This condition is included in the signed documents. "Within the documents the localisation requirement is 40 per cent or higher. But I would like to note that this is the responsibility of the Joint Venture, that is comprised not only by the Russian side, represented by Russian Helicopters holding company, but also a key aviation company of the customer's country".

When asked when the delivery of helicopters to India would begin, a senior official of Kamov Design Bureau said, "We take our responsibility very seriously and will comply with the required timelines. "The supply of the helicopters under the contract that you have mentioned is overseen by Rosoboronexport, and only they are can answer the question on the timeline for delivery," the official said. In October last year, India and Russia finalised a broad agreement for a joint venture between Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) and two Russian defence majors. India is procuring Kamov choppers to replace its ageing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters.

The agreement for the Kamov choppers was signed during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Russia in December, 2015. In October last year, Russian Helicopters, Rosoboronexport and India's HAL Corp had almost completed the formalities for the joint venture to localise the production of Ka-226Ts and deliver them to the Indian market. It was registered in May this year. According to Russian Helicopter officials, Ka-226T is the pilot project on creation and production of helicopters through digital technology. It has helped in reducing by half the risks and costs to the development of the helicopter as well as to the changes for the future upgrades.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Karan M » 03 Dec 2017 02:48

40% localization? LOL.
I wonder what the status of the HAL LUH is.
The only reason for the Ka-226T is the safety of IA pilots, period. But this is anything but a local deal even by the standards of erstwhile Russian ones.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ashishvikas » 03 Dec 2017 22:20

HAL to offer technology to private sector to build helicopter

Let's see which Pvt company comes in ?

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 903981.cms

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 03 Dec 2017 23:07

Karan M wrote:40% localization? LOL.
I wonder what the status of the HAL LUH is.
The only reason for the Ka-226T is the safety of IA pilots, period. But this is anything but a local deal even by the standards of erstwhile Russian ones.

I wish somebody stood up and just said. "Yeh sab faltoo batein chodo, coaxial rotor technology kya bhao diye" (Cut the crap, what's the rate for the coaxial rotor tech). We want to build our next helis with pusher props for higher speed.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 04 Dec 2017 19:19

We lack effort in funding bleedin' edge R&D. This is why the US is still the world's top mil power,with the Chinese fast narrowing the gap in certain spheres and the Russians concentrating with lesser moolah to spare on core weapon systems such as SSBN/N-subs.We have no specialised research subs being developed at al,midget/mini-subs,etc.Our UAV/UCAV prorgamme which was started in the last century has still not delivered and we're still buying loads of Israeli drones.now wanting US naval drones! HAL's helo division should go ahead with tech-demo projects ,its making money,has huge orders for ALHs,now with the LUH JV,its own LUH,the great LCH achievement and hopefully in the future ,the MH too.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Cybaru » 05 Dec 2017 13:56

ashishvikas wrote:HAL to offer technology to private sector to build helicopter

Let's see which Pvt company comes in ?

https://m.economictimes.com/news/defenc ... 903981.cms


Excellent move by HAL. Keeps foreign players out and creates local supply chain as well.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 05 Dec 2017 18:21

PS:Apart from the helo tech,the key component is the engine! We've still not developed a single engine for a major tkt. either fixed wing or rotary.
GTRE and Kaveri is like the play "waiting for Godot". Pvt. entities will be n a quandary as to this aspect.If HAL on the other hand offers a full package engine included even if it is foreign,say a second line for Dhruv,LUH,etc., then a pvt. entity would get a complete picture of the undertaking.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Cybaru » 05 Dec 2017 23:09

Yeah we know and won't get there for another 10/15 years. Hal started with it's efforts. Let's see what happens. The sky ain't falling due to lack of engine here.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby durvasa » 05 Dec 2017 23:51

The extent of pimping for Russian military hardware that happens in BRF forums by a few is outrageous.

Almost every post, however small, on Dhruv, Tejas, Insead, submarines is followed by at least one post dissing the Indian stuff and two more posts plugging the Russian Maal! Mind-boggling and extremely sad!

Hope mods bring some antidote to this infection!

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Cybaru » 06 Dec 2017 00:29

durvasa wrote:The extent of pimping for Russian military hardware that happens in BRF forums by a few is outrageous.

Almost every post, however small, on Dhruv, Tejas, Insead, submarines is followed by at least one post dissing the Indian stuff and two more posts plugging the Russian Maal! Mind-boggling and extremely sad!

Hope mods bring some antidote to this infection!


<poof>
Last edited by nachiket on 06 Dec 2017 13:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Personal attack deleted

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vivek K » 06 Dec 2017 00:32

Philip wrote:PS:Apart from the helo tech,the key component is the engine! We've still not developed a single engine for a major tkt. either fixed wing or rotary.
GTRE and Kaveri is like the play "waiting for Godot". Pvt. entities will be n a quandary as to this aspect.If HAL on the other hand offers a full package engine included even if it is foreign,say a second line for Dhruv,LUH,etc., then a pvt. entity would get a complete picture of the undertaking.

So then what are you suggesting? Of course HAL will offer a full package. Or do you think Indian MIC should be shut down and imports from mother hen should be taken up?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nachiket » 06 Dec 2017 01:59

Philip wrote:PS:Apart from the helo tech,the key component is the engine! We've still not developed a single engine for a major tkt. either fixed wing or rotary.
GTRE and Kaveri is like the play "waiting for Godot". Pvt. entities will be n a quandary as to this aspect.If HAL on the other hand offers a full package engine included even if it is foreign,say a second line for Dhruv,LUH,etc., then a pvt. entity would get a complete picture of the undertaking.

Why would the pvt. entity be in a quandary? If HAL is able to build the Dhruv currently with the Shakti engine, why would a private sector entity not be able to do that if HAL provides them with the requisite technology? The article does not say anywhere that HAL is not open to let the pvt manufacturer build the SHakti engines as well.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 06 Dec 2017 05:05

The engine for the KA-226T is French one.

Are the plans to make them also or develop a smaller Shakti engine?


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