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Indian Military Helicopters

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tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 03 Sep 2017 21:34

fanne wrote:And what can 1 man operator do in a AEW or AWACS - you need an army of very well trained people, plus a hierarchy to quickly decide what to do and not do.


Its a radar picket helicopter and not an AEW or AWACS. Its a compact helicopter whose job is to lift the radar in the air and transmit whatever information gathered back to ship. It does no analysis itself.

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 03 Sep 2017 21:38

Austin wrote:There is no 3rd Operator , its just 2 pilots the space behind it is like 40 % filled with Electronics and Hardware they looks all ruggedish and containerized for the radar nearly 50-60 % space is empty for future Hardware/Upgrade , More or less the space behind the pilot looked more empty than full so the potential to add more hardware in future is very much there. This information is now like more than 9 years old not sure latter on thing got changed and more things were added to it.


The weight limits were reached before volume limits.

With Moore's Law, better and lighter systems will equip the helicopter.

A good option would be Netra's radar modified to fit the Ka-31

Karthik S
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Karthik S » 04 Sep 2017 10:56

Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 41s42 seconds ago
More
41 New Dhruv Helos Ordered For Indian Army & @IndianNavy. Deal Worth $953-million, HAL To Deliver Over 60 Months.


Good news.

chola
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 04 Sep 2017 11:17

Karthik S wrote:
Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 41s42 seconds ago
More
41 New Dhruv Helos Ordered For Indian Army & @IndianNavy. Deal Worth $953-million, HAL To Deliver Over 60 Months.


Good news.



Dhruvs for Navy meaning for carriers, destroyers and frigates? Or just land-based units?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakarat » 04 Sep 2017 11:18

HAL Gets Orders for 41 Advanced Light Helicopters

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited signed one more contract for supply of Advanced Light Helicopters (ALH). The contract is for 40 ALH to the Indian Army and one to the Indian Navy.

Karthik S
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Karthik S » 04 Sep 2017 11:24

Of the 40, 18 are Rudra.

Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 1m1 minute ago
More
18 Rudra armed helos among the 40 Dhruvs for the Indian Army.

sum
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby sum » 04 Sep 2017 11:36

chola wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
Good news.



Dhruvs for Navy meaning for carriers, destroyers and frigates? Or just land-based units?

Since only 1 is for IN, tough to make out what it could be for.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Sep 2017 12:03

Could it be for Dunking sonar trials?? Or are they ordered separately??

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Singha » 04 Sep 2017 12:07

do our CG ships still use Alouette3 helis? if the Dhruv can have folding rotors, and with increasing number of large CG OPVs , is this a potential market ? Dhruv is 2engine which is preferred for naval ops esp in deep sea.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 04 Sep 2017 12:13

Naval Dhruv would likely be SAR ....We should know it once HAL builds for IN

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 04 Sep 2017 12:39

sum wrote:
chola wrote:

Dhruvs for Navy meaning for carriers, destroyers and frigates? Or just land-based units?

Since only 1 is for IN, tough to make out what it could be for.


This is in addition to 32 ordered for CG and Navy in Mar 2017

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Sep 2017 12:49

BTW, i saw a tricycle type Dhruv in army camo scheme over BLR.. Wonder who is getting that bird?? A similar tricycle type bird is also with the IAF but i wonder why is the army getting one??

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JTull » 04 Sep 2017 16:18

ambati wrote:when will LCH get a name


I think it's "TigerBird"

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Yagnasri » 04 Sep 2017 16:19

I do not think they have given any name till now.

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 04 Sep 2017 16:30

sum wrote:Since only 1 is for IN, tough to make out what it could be for.

One existing and one new Dhruv have been delivered to Maldives. The new order replaces the in-service helicopter that was transferred to Maldives.

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 04 Sep 2017 16:32

Image

Since the thread needs some colour in between occasionally, here's a snap of Coast Guard Dhruv rescuing fishermen off Gujarat during the low pressure depression that hit Bombay & South Gujarat.

The helicopter is some distance away to avoid rotor wash swamping the small craft.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya G » 04 Sep 2017 16:42

tsarkar wrote:
sum wrote:Since only 1 is for IN, tough to make out what it could be for.

One existing and one new Dhruv have been delivered to Maldives. The new order replaces the in-service helicopter that was transferred to Maldives.


This is win-win on so many counts.

- IN/ICG get brand new equipment.
- Friendly neighbour gets free hardware
- HAL gets an export customer with at least MRO contracts coming their way
- MEA is happy
- China looses an export
- We get a potential export customer when replacement time comes.

We are seeing this with ships as now Mauritius and SL are buying brand new ships from us to replace the old ICG/IN ships we had transferred to them.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya G » 04 Sep 2017 16:45

Bala Vignesh wrote:BTW, i saw a tricycle type Dhruv in army camo scheme over BLR.. Wonder who is getting that bird?? A similar tricycle type bird is also with the IAF but i wonder why is the army getting one??


I think i noticed an IAF Dhruv in Army colours with Navy type tricycle gear.

duh.

There is a picture on Airliners.net - IIRC

chola
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 04 Sep 2017 17:58

Singha wrote:do our CG ships still use Alouette3 helis? if the Dhruv can have folding rotors, and with increasing number of large CG OPVs , is this a potential market ? Dhruv is 2engine which is preferred for naval ops esp in deep sea.



Yes, this is why I asked. The few photos I see of shipbornevhelos are Chetaks and the venerable Sea Kings.

We have a major shortfall in helos for our frontline warships which is bad as not having torpedos for the Scorpenes. Hoping to see Dhruv as the solution instead of another phoren order. But haven't see any news of a shipborne Dhruv prototype so fearing that the recent orders are for land use only.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Gyan » 04 Sep 2017 18:15

jayasimha wrote:RFI for Procurement of Naval Multi Role Helicopter (NMRH), Simulators and Associted Equipment as for Indian Navy (IN) through Strategic Partnership

Tender Date:
23/08/2017 to 06/10/2017

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/content/r ... ent-indian

https://www.indiannavy.nic.in/sites/def ... download=1


It is worth reading the tender document. The tender is very comprehensive and asks for very extensive amount/depth of technologies. Well drafted.

Re Deejay

Mentions DIRCM, SATCOM also

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Sep 2017 19:47

Aditya G wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:BTW, i saw a tricycle type Dhruv in army camo scheme over BLR.. Wonder who is getting that bird?? A similar tricycle type bird is also with the IAF but i wonder why is the army getting one??


I think i noticed an IAF Dhruv in Army colours with Navy type tricycle gear.

duh.

There is a picture on Airliners.net - IIRC

Thanks Aditya Ji.. They are BSF/CPMF birds!! So I guess they were undergone some maintenance checks here.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ambati » 04 Sep 2017 20:17

JTull wrote:
ambati wrote:when will LCH get a name


I think it's "TigerBird"




I was thinking bhediya or wolf would me niche . Think about it three or four of them becomes wolf pack

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 04 Sep 2017 21:08

Seriously, bhediya!! May be something more elegant and befitting her sleek form like sishumar or sankush..

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_Sharma » 04 Sep 2017 21:27

ambati wrote:
JTull wrote:
I think it's "TigerBird"




I was thinking bhediya or wolf would me niche . Think about it three or four of them becomes wolf pack


LCH has been named already: Janmey Jay

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 05 Sep 2017 00:40

Manish_Sharma wrote:
ambati wrote:


I was thinking bhediya or wolf would me niche . Think about it three or four of them becomes wolf pack


LCH has been named already: Janmey Jay

Named already? By whom?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_Sharma » 05 Sep 2017 03:11

Kartik wrote:
Manish_Sharma wrote:
LCH has been named already: Janmey Jay

Named already? By whom?


Although I remembered reading it here couple of years back, but can't find on search anymore.

Here is another link :

http://activedefence.blogspot.in/2012/1 ... a-and.html

Janmejay

Janmejay is the name for HAL Light Combat Helicopter for use by the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army. This is the one, which is still in development and trial phase. At HAL Bangalore (old airport road) you can see a hoarding (bill-board) with details about this helicopter, however the name Janmejay is yet to be announced, officially.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Philip » 05 Sep 2017 12:50

But just 8/yr? This is a dreadful production fig. and coupled with that of the LCA,6-8 too,will make it impossible for the nation to acquire meaningful and timely replacements for obsolete birds as well as augmenting the fleet.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Aditya_V » 05 Sep 2017 12:58

Thats cause our Order sizes are small, when we make international orders of similar quantity, the products are already in production with demand from the home country's armed forces, so we can order piecemeal. With domestic products we do the same , without ordering in Bulk and doing the procurement and production in bulk.

Neither does the Babu in Hal or MOD want to take a risk and go against the established and powerful Arms import lobby within and outside the country.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 05 Sep 2017 13:13

Philip wrote:But just 8/yr? This is a dreadful production fig. and coupled with that of the LCA,6-8 too,will make it impossible for the nation to acquire meaningful and timely replacements for obsolete birds as well as augmenting the fleet.

Plus there is the preexisting order for 32 navy and CG dhruvs which would be happening at the same time, so I guess it would be at about 10-15 a year, giving you the same 60 month time frame give or take a month.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby pankajs » 05 Sep 2017 13:59

I don't think it accounts for the new Heli production facility that is in the process of being setup. One needs to read up on the new factory to get an idea of what is being planned and at what rate.

Aren't we supposed to get 15 LCH LSP in the first year? That will be the absolute minimum rate of production given that the factory will have just started.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vidur » 05 Sep 2017 14:16

Aditya_V wrote:Thats cause our Order sizes are small, when we make international orders of similar quantity, the products are already in production with demand from the home country's armed forces, so we can order piecemeal. With domestic products we do the same , without ordering in Bulk and doing the procurement and production in bulk.

Neither does the Babu in Hal or MOD want to take a risk and go against the established and powerful Arms import lobby within and outside the country.


No, the sizes are small because budget is small. I have written a detailed piece in another thread on the way the annual budgetary support for Raksha Mantralaya works. Please read it before making baseless statements. No one fears any import lobby. There is no such overarching lobby.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 05 Sep 2017 14:17

Vidur saab,
Can you please post a link of the above post here or better yet in the FAQ thread since it will be referred to very often.
Thanks

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vidur » 05 Sep 2017 14:20

Production agency is also not geared up to deliver more. They have a backlog of orders already.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby yensoy » 05 Sep 2017 14:35

Time for HAL to sell the LCH blueprints to a private player, have that company do the component/sub-assembly manufacturing, final assembly, worldwide marketing/sales, training and support. HAL can derive IP license fees per unit sold and plough the proceeds back into more R&D for future versions (and if the private party does its own innovation, more power to them!).

Licensee will be responsible for quality, schedules, performance and safety; HAL scientists can be brought on as consultants. Deal is already sweet with such a big order backlog, and govt can sweeten it further if needed.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby shiv » 05 Sep 2017 14:41

yensoy wrote:Time for HAL to sell the LCH blueprints to a private player, have that company do the component/sub-assembly manufacturing, final assembly, worldwide marketing/sales, training and support. HAL can derive IP license fees per unit sold and plough the proceeds back into more R&D for future versions (and if the private party does its own innovation, more power to them!).

Licensee will be responsible for quality, schedules, performance and safety; HAL scientists can be brought on as consultants. Deal is already sweet with such a big order backlog, and govt can sweeten it further if needed.

I have been hearing this idea (or similar ideas) on BRF for a long time and at this point in time there is no Indian company who can do this even if HAL simply handed over its most successful program.The whole idea of "make in India" is to gradually set up an ecosystem of manufacturers so maybe this kind of idea will be implementable in 20 years time if all goes well. JMT

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby jayasimha » 05 Sep 2017 14:44

https://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata ... 290914.pdf

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION FOR
RECONNAISSANCE & SURVEILLANCE (RSH) HELICOPTERS
The Indian Army and Indian Air Force are holding Chetak and Cheetah
helicopters. The Ministry of Defence, Government of India intends to urgently
replace the fleet of existing Cheetah and Chetak helicopters with suitable
helicopters of modern design (hereinafter called Reconnaissance &
Surveillance / RSH Helicopters)

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby darshhan » 05 Sep 2017 15:57

yensoy wrote:Time for HAL to sell the LCH blueprints to a private player, have that company do the component/sub-assembly manufacturing, final assembly, worldwide marketing/sales, training and support. HAL can derive IP license fees per unit sold and plough the proceeds back into more R&D for future versions (and if the private party does its own innovation, more power to them!).

Licensee will be responsible for quality, schedules, performance and safety; HAL scientists can be brought on as consultants. Deal is already sweet with such a big order backlog, and govt can sweeten it further if needed.


So basically you are asking HAL to create its own competitor. Why would any company do such a thing?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vidur » 05 Sep 2017 16:33

Bala Vignesh wrote:Vidur saab,
Can you please post a link of the above post here or better yet in the FAQ thread since it will be referred to very often.
Thanks


Don't know how to post the link. Its in the Industrial Development and Military Aviation discussion.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Bala Vignesh » 05 Sep 2017 17:50

Many thanks, Vidur sir. Will look it up there.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby JayS » 05 Sep 2017 18:11

Vidur wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:Vidur saab,
Can you please post a link of the above post here or better yet in the FAQ thread since it will be referred to very often.
Thanks


Don't know how to post the link. Its in the Industrial Development and Military Aviation discussion.


At the top of any post you see hyperlink "Re: ThreadName (or whatever)" that's link to that post. Either right click and copy link/shortcut or click on that so that the it opens and the link shows up in the address bar of the browser. Then copy from there. Just paste that link here in editor. That should work. If you want to do by the book, click on the URL button on top of the editor and paste link between "[url]" and "[/url]"


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