Indian Military Helicopters

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Pratyush
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 25 Jul 2018 12:54

An alternate explaination could be that MOD did not allow HAL to work for the civil aviation market.

A restriction recently removed from the HAL.

jpremnath
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby jpremnath » 25 Jul 2018 16:36

Indranil wrote:I have no knowledge of this. Kindly elucidate. IN joined the IMRH bandwagon later when the specs had already been finalized based on IA/IAF requirements. Much water has flown under the Farakka since then.


My bad...its the Army and not IN...http://www.aviationindia.net/2018/06/indian-army-doesnt-seem-impressed-by.html
This is pretty much the only source, as usual DDM hasnt quoted anyone, but says "Indian Army Planners are not impressed..."

SaiK
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby SaiK » 25 Jul 2018 16:55

Advanced Light Helicopter gives teeth to Navy's airborne ops | Videos...

Read more at: https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... e-ops.html

Vamsi31
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Vamsi31 » 25 Jul 2018 17:23

What is the status of light combat helicopter? Didn't hear anything for a long time now.

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 25 Jul 2018 17:48

Austin wrote:They did the same for Naval Dhruv

Naval Dhruv had a different issue. It was positioned as a Seaking replacement and obviously could not accommodate all that equipment.

What can be done is have versions of Dhruv like Seahawk -

1. Training, Utility, Transport & SAR - current version of INAS 322. Will need a weather radar in addition to standard Dhruv equipment
2. Anti Piracy / Anti Terrorist / Amphibious assault support - Navalized Rudra
3. ASW - with two LWT, dipping sonar, sonobuoys & launcher
4. Anti Ship - with two Harpoon/Exocet/Konsberg NSM and Elta 2022 search radar.

Austin
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 25 Jul 2018 21:15

There was no desire of IN to induct Dhruv the rest of option like Sea hake etc could have worked out , sonar for Dhruv was developed by drdo and afaik they could carry 2 lwt 324 mm or less

nvishal
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nvishal » 25 Jul 2018 21:33

Can someone following the sale of the Apache AH-64E helicopters confirm whether it will use indian made encrypted communication systems like the C17 and C130J?

This "report" says:

The Pentagon’s position is that the COMCASA is required by law if the US is to export sensitive military equipment to a country

The(Indian) Army said India was in the process of buying sensitive equipment from the US.

This includes two major platforms: The M777 and the Apache AH 64E

I generally don't peddle gossip from the indian media. I don't think the M777 is a sensitive equipment haha but I was curious about the AH64E. There are zero reliable reports from either shiv aroor or janes regarding this. During the C17/C130J sale, it was clearly states that the american communication equipment was being replaced by indian communication equipment.

nam
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nam » 25 Jul 2018 21:42

We haven't signed the treaty, so it will use Indian IFF(if required) and comm equipment like P8I.

Kakarat
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakarat » 27 Jul 2018 12:14

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022729965949931520
FIRST PHOTOS: The 1st Indian Air Force AH-64E Apache & CH-47F Chinook on their inaugural flights at Mesa, Arizona.


Image
Image

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022732011763642368
So the IAF has opted for its default ‘Tipnis grey’ on the two @Boeing_In rotorcraft that begin deliveries next March.

Kakarat
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakarat » 27 Jul 2018 12:38

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022737755498074112
In three shots, the 1st @Boeing_In AH-64E Apache for the @IAF_MCC taking off on July 16. Our piece on the kind of Apache India is getting: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/10 ... india.html


Image
Image
Image

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022738048038121472

And here’s the @IAF_MCC’s first @Boeing_In CH-47F Chinook in the air for the first time.

Image

jpremnath
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby jpremnath » 27 Jul 2018 13:28

The AH is a beauty...Hope HAL comes up with a LCH mk2, with all the muscles, bells and whistles of AH.

Viv S
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Viv S » 27 Jul 2018 14:00

For some reason I assumed the AH-64 would come same boring olive green like the US Army units. But Tipnis grey? Fantastic.

Kakarat
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kakarat » 27 Jul 2018 14:08

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022750544581021698

VIDEO: The 1st Indian Air Force AH-64E Apache & CH-47F Chinook on their inaugural flights at Mesa, Arizona. Deliveries begin March 2019. / via @Boeing_In

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Manish_P » 27 Jul 2018 15:47

https://twitter.com/SaurabhJoshi/status/1022734162724356096

The Apache AH-64E also has the capability to control/operate/target unmanned aircraft. This capability has not been offered to the IAF


Am i right in assuming that this is because we have not got on board COMCASA. If in the future we do so, then the capability can get added on (at extra cost)

chola
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby chola » 27 Jul 2018 16:20

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022737755498074112
In three shots, the 1st @Boeing_In AH-64E Apache for the @IAF_MCC taking off on July 16. Our piece on the kind of Apache India is getting: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/10 ... india.html

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022738048038121472

And here’s the @IAF_MCC’s first @Boeing_In CH-47F Chinook in the air for the first time.

They look absolutely beautiful in our colors.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Singha » 27 Jul 2018 16:29

Viv S wrote:For some reason I assumed the AH-64 would come same boring olive green like the US Army units. But Tipnis grey? Fantastic.


because the IAF owns them.

the IA apaches may be come in their own sand/digital camo.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby VishalJ » 27 Jul 2018 20:17

Image

ramana
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby ramana » 27 Jul 2018 20:39

That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stop bringing it up.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby VishalJ » 27 Jul 2018 23:03


Picklu
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Picklu » 27 Jul 2018 23:58

This colour on a helo is so meh......

Kartik
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 28 Jul 2018 03:29

Beautiful colors! I especially love the contrast color of the main aiframe's Tipnis grey versus the dark green on the FLIR optical turret. Israeli Apaches had that too and I loved that compared to the dull all dark green color scheme on most other Apaches.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rakesh » 28 Jul 2018 05:37

Beautiful colours. WOW....that Tipnis grey is gorgeous. Both helicopters look amazing.

Khalsa
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Khalsa » 28 Jul 2018 16:54

I think the Tipnis grey reflects our envrmnt.
I love it.

Austin
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Austin » 28 Jul 2018 17:32

Mi-171A2 helicopter tested for automatic landing
Domestic appliances manufactured at the Saratov JSC "KB Promavtomatiki" made possible the automatic landing of the Mi-171A2 helicopter. The avionics of the helicopter is equipped with the PKV-171 flight control system and the navigating console-calculator PVN-1-03. Flight tests of the helicopter were held in Astrakhan.

The crew of the helicopter performed for the first time instrumental landing blindly, being guided only by the readings of the flight control system and signals of the local control-correcting station (LKKS). So far, only aircraft have been able to perform such a landing. The airborne navigation system installed on the helicopter showed perfect interaction with the LKKS equipment.

Saratov designers were able to combine satellite navigation equipment and a calculator in one case of the remote control calculator, which provides the integration of satellite information with other onboard equipment sensors with the calculation and delivery of information about the trajectory and navigation and flight parameters of the helicopter. All this information enters the flight control system automatically.

The new technology made the landing more accurate and safe, reducing the impact of the human factor, time of day and weather. Also the equipment allows to reduce flight time and save fuel.


https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110114/

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Lisa » 28 Jul 2018 18:19

Polite question, why no radar dome on Apache mast? Anyone know?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Cybaru » 28 Jul 2018 19:12

It's an add on and a can be added before flight. Not a permanent fixture. It hurts altitude performance...

Indranil
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Indranil » 28 Jul 2018 19:53

Not all of them will have the radar.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kshirin » 28 Jul 2018 21:49

ramana wrote:That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stopbringing it up.


This is very reassuring. But how are you so sure? Reports are that we will pay with COMCASA for Russian waiver. And that COMCASA obliges us to reduce purchases from Russia and eventually indigenous sources too. Hoping I am wrong so feel free to contradict.

nvishal
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nvishal » 28 Jul 2018 22:25

kshirin wrote:
ramana wrote:That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stopbringing it up.


This is very reassuring. But how are you so sure? Reports are that we will pay with COMCASA for Russian waiver. And that COMCASA obliges us to reduce purchases from Russia and eventually indigenous sources too. Hoping I am wrong so feel free to contradict.

You lack understanding of the basics

It depends where the sanctions come from

There is difference between the US ordering a few of its poodles to stop transacting with India vs an entity like the UN which asks its members to the same.

The CAATSA act comes solely from the US state and has no legal validity in the global world. The americans are in a situation where they cannot solely impose sanctions on India, whatever they are worth.

COMCASA is a requirement for using certain communication equipments from the US. The Indian side is fishing for hardware without those equipment. Ignore the Indian reports as most of them have 2% facts and 98% gossip.

Head over to shiv aroors livefist page for reliable info on defence acquisition. At the same time, you can head over to ajai shuklas broadsword blogpost to get the latest sales pitch from the US defence lobby. They appear on his blogpost 10 days in advance before the Indian media gets it for wide aggregation.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kshirin » 28 Jul 2018 22:46

Hullo, nothing in my post suggests I dont know the difference between the US and the UN.

nvishal
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nvishal » 28 Jul 2018 23:06

XXXXXX

----------
Added later: Ignore my comments. Maybe another BR member can answer your questions appropriately

Edit by Karan M:
Please be civil and take forward the discussion constructively.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 29 Jul 2018 00:32

For our P-8I and C-130J, we using BEL and Israeli datalink and communication equipment. No US communication equipment is used, so no need to sign COMCASA

tsarkar
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 29 Jul 2018 00:40

VishalJ wrote:Pls join in the naamkaran samaroh: https://twitter.com/VishalJolapara/stat ... 9868540929

IAF stopped naming foreign equipment. Su-30MKI, C-17, C-130, don't have Indian names. Was silly anyways renaming an already named equipment.
IN never had Indian names for Islander, Dornier, Kamov, Sea Harrier or Sea King.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby tsarkar » 29 Jul 2018 00:48

The Chinook is the second helicopter after Seaking capable of water landing without floats

Pratyush
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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Pratyush » 29 Jul 2018 06:49

Lisa wrote:Polite question, why no radar dome on Apache mast? Anyone know?


Because not every Apache has one.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby kshirin » 29 Jul 2018 09:32

That is why I am asking, as a very concerned and agonised citizen, how are you (Ramana and nvishal) sure we are not going to sign? Really scared that it will put paid to indigenous industry, which is getting NO support. IIT (M) has come up with an indigenous chip, others have created high technology, but there are no takers as the major part of defence capital outlay has gone for imports.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Neshant » 29 Jul 2018 10:14

With no support for domestic R&D in defense, there is no nucleus around which fledgling science & tech companies can form.

India has spent a fortune subsidizing the scienctific and engineering cadre of foreign nations with expensive armament imports.

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby nvishal » 29 Jul 2018 10:56

kshirin wrote:how are you (Ramana and nvishal) sure we are not going to sign?

A US bugged hardware is limited in actual use. They cannot be used on the border with pakistan(a longterm american ally). Instead, they can be used on the border with china. Here, the americans are convinced that they can get the indians to do the work for them. This is what they mean by the term, "major defence partner" aka a rent boy.

Previously, we bought the C17, C130J from the US. Both of them used COMCASA communication and navigation systems but the indian side bluntly told the americans that we don't want it with COMCASA equipment. They could have done this now but the US must have refused to sell them without COMCASA. Imagine indian pilots using private encrypted walky talkies to communicate with headquaters because the onboard equipment has arrived in bugged condition. It already reveals their GPS coordinates.

It's also not that hard to disguise snooping components on a PCB. Any commercial component manufacturer will happily take a custom order to fit the form factor. The CIA has its own guys making custom components for them.
Image

How will you inspect them if the americans don't allow access to the mainframe without ripping a few VOID stickers? Reverse engineering a PCB schematic takes just half to 1 hour for a 10x10cm PCB board and any hobbyist can do it and reveal the function of each side in the pcb.

On americans passing snooping components inside their systems
When we are importing so much military equipment from the US, do we really believe that they can’t monitor things that they want to?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Rishi_Tri » 29 Jul 2018 22:47

Why was 'Experimental' printed on side of the AH?

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Re: Indian Military Helicopters

Postby Kartik » 31 Jul 2018 03:38

Because it is the first of its kind. India being a new customer with its own set of specific requirements, will need some flight testing and qualification before being handed over to the customer. After the baseline is qualified, the remaining serial produced AH-64E Guardians for India can be handed over after acceptance tests and acceptance flights are completed.


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