How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

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SBajwa
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby SBajwa » 09 Dec 2014 01:06

Almost all phases of Defense Housing Authority of Lahore city is about 14 miles from Indian border (Amritsar)., everytime there is an attack., we need to lob few artillery shells in this area to target top Jarnails!

check

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.5176346,74.4691849,13z

member_26622
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby member_26622 » 09 Dec 2014 03:09

As per my understanding Pakis are ahead of us in # of Artillery guns and we are not going to order more desi bofors. Another new acquisition and what not to add further delays.

Starting an artillery duel is fine but want to make sure we come out winning.

fanne
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby fanne » 09 Dec 2014 05:38

Pk is not ahead in artillery. We have more, mostly 130mm (some upgraded to 155mm). Tsp has some heavier caliber gun, and some spg where we do not have any. Overall we have 2/3 : 1 advantage.

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby mody » 09 Dec 2014 11:21

What most members are advocating are what can be described as punitive actions or strong retaliations for every provocation that comes from pak.

What I would like to see is a complete destruction of pak as a viable state, so that it has no ability to carry on terror activities against India.

Someone had pointed out that for every economic action that India takes, China might try to counter.
I have alluded to this in my previous post.
China will try to counter. But china cannot force western or japanese or Korean companies to operate in pak. What will happen is that Chinese companies will replace other MNC's that exit pak. This will happen in all spheres, like consumer electronics, automobiles, power equipment etc. However, even the Chinese cannot fund the pakis indefinitely. They will ask for their pound of flesh. This will happen in the form of control to china of greater areas within pak. Maybe a military base for the dragon. Access to build a rail line connecting Gwadar with KKH.
To counter this, we have to run lifafa journalist in pak to decry the selling of pak to china. China should be painted as a evil moneylender, asking for the services of the debtors wife or daughter, when the interest payments cannot be made.
Offering real estate to china should be sold to the populace as selling of paki H&D.

The pakis especially the better off ones, will already be curing the chinese products, that they would be forced to use, instead of the western ones that they would ideally prefer. Besides the chinese products coming to Pak, would be amongst the worst that china can produce. Hence the reputation of chinese products and by some extension of china would generally negative.

As I had mentioned in my previous post, for complete destruction of pak, we need all the three forms of war:
1). Economic
2). Social
3). Military

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Deans » 09 Dec 2014 13:31

Modyji, You have summed it up when you say it should be a combination of Economic, military and Social (in that order) forms of pressure on Pakistan. A couple of points in response to your earlier posts:

There is actually no quota for textiles / cotton in Western markets. Hence, an indirect export subsidy for Indian exports will hit Pakistan badly.
There are ways of circumventing WTO norms on subsidies. The only problem ( I know this from personal experience) is that GoI has not
applied their minds to it and whatever export lobbying is there, has never been to target a competitor country.

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Deans » 09 Dec 2014 13:37

Rather than considering banning all MNC's who do business with Pakistan etc (which will only hurt our own image as a business friendly country for foreign investment), we should look at selectively targeting for e.g. Military suppliers, car manufacturers etc - basically those categories where the Indian market is far bigger than Pakistan's, enough competition exists in India, such that the absence of a couple of companies (if black-listed) won't hurt the Indian customer and a pull-out from Pakistan causes a significant loss to their economy.

There should however be a blanket ban on ANY Indian company setting up shop in Pakistan. This need not be official, its enough for `defaulting' companies to get a visit from IT dept, or for the Media to say that Company X, is financing terrorism.

Finally, boost exports to Afghanistan (under the guise of aid etc). Most of these exports actually find their way to Pakistan, to take advantage of high import tariffs in Pakistan, by smuggling from Afghanistan (I've actually been part of this, several years ago).

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby mody » 09 Dec 2014 14:47

The point is not to ban all MNCs who do business in Pakistan. The point is to coerce them to stop the business in pakistan and if not then their future expansion plans for Indian markets would get affected. Given the relative size of the markets and the prospects for future growth, it should not be too difficult a decision for the companies to take.

Targeting companies selling weapons to Pak should have been done a long time back. But unfortunately, for weapons, pak was and still remains a lucrative market. For western companies, especially US, the tab was being picked by the US govt. and hence the companies were always making money. We should have tried to lay down the conditions that any company participating in tenders for Indian requirements, would submit an undertaking, that they would not sell anything to pak for a period of 10 years.
Unfortunately our procurement process has been so bad and we have blacklisted so many companies, that this would have been difficult to implement.

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Philip » 09 Dec 2014 18:07

Break off/downgrade diplomatic relations,build a "Great Wall of India" between India and Pak using layered defences,minefields,whatever,reduce contact with Pakis to the bare minimum and let them chew on each other to their hearts' content.
Treat Pak like a contagious disease like Ebola.Whatever swine come across our border ,turn them into roast pork! We have better things to do than waste our time dealing with Pak.It's simply futile,the Paki's army's existence and raision-d'etre is based upon hatred of India. Let them rant and rave as much as they want.Jokers like Arnab are only giving them oxygen by engaging with them whenever their is a terrorist strike,whatever. Each side simply shouts at the other.Poor fare and an utter waste of time watching the terrorist scumbags.

Now that is the overt way to go.The covert way should also be exercised and the least said about that and out options the better. Simply make them pay 100 times whenever there is a terror strike, any-which-way. Don't let them put up their guard.

SBajwa
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby SBajwa » 09 Dec 2014 19:37

What you guys are describing (Economic, Social, Military) approach has been tried and has failed since the invasion of Alexandar and has failed. What happens is that we build our economy by keeping the enemy at bay using variety of approaches and we get very rich so that our temples start hording gold. Then the enemy attacks and take away the Gold causing poverty/famines/etc.

The approach should be the other order

1. If we earn 1 Rupee, we should spend at least 25% of that on Defense/Offense buildup.
2. For each and every terrorist action the payup should be higher up so that these Jarnails think before committing to violence., USE YOUR FORCES TO RETALIATE FOR EACH TERRORIST ACTIVITY.
3. Then when time is to our advantage after substantial buildup (4:1) declare war and start hostilities.

So! in the positive sense Raja Dahir, Shahi kings and Rajasthan kings in 760s should have actually attacked Baghdad and defeated the caliphate for us to not be in the current position.

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Amit Patel » 09 Dec 2014 22:57

There is a lot of printed money from bakistan that is pumped into indian economy via nepal/bangladesh route.

What we need is for covert operations to print baki money en mass and pump that printed papers into the paki economy via afghan/baluch/karachi routes. There can be far reaching consequences for this. The same strategy must also be used for bangla/lanka economies.

NRao
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby NRao » 09 Dec 2014 23:35

Support all regional self-determination efforts, outside of Paki Punjab (which even hell does not want). Baluach and Sindh for starters.

member_22733
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby member_22733 » 10 Dec 2014 00:11

Just like "barely surviving" a catastrophe or strategic blunder is considered "victory" by Bakistan. The very existence of India is considered as their failure. And speaking from an ideological POV it IS their failure.

So we are making them pay just by existing :). Even so, once in a while a irreverent whack is needed to keep them within their lines.

svinayak
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby svinayak » 10 Dec 2014 00:29

Pak ideology is supported by western countries. Even if the state does not exist the ideology will exist with western support.
So India needs to make sure that the artifical state make sleast damage to Indian people. Indian nation and Indian culture and Indian ideology must be protected and spread worldwide

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby VijayN » 10 Dec 2014 03:00

Looks like we should be starting a TV series "Thousand ways to eliminate Pigs" :)

One point I did not see being made - is the unofficial cross border trade between India and pakis. The value of trade in this route is supposed to run into billions of $$, can we cut this off w/o affecting our own people? If we do, we also need to find alternate sources of supply to the items that come through and be able to find a market for the Indian businesses.

I still feel our place in the world is still not where we can call the shots in the economic sense, militarily perhaps yes. Imagine being like the khan, closing off the money taps, turning on the screws whenever they want or just simply threaten them with travel embargo. Unfortunately our soft power is still some ways off, and I hope someday soon we can be a position of such strength (Politically, economically and Militarily) that roasting pigs should be a routine affair.

PS: Not meaning to throw water on the raging Harmones here, but just trying to be realistic. Peace!!

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Kapil » 16 Dec 2014 12:37

Hi Deans,
Pls mail me on kapilchandni at gmail dot com
thanks

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby member_28638 » 13 Jun 2015 23:33

mody wrote:Starting a new topic to get ideas from everyone on the best ways to make Pakistan pay for its terror activities.
For me one thing is clear. As long as the Pakistani Military (includes ISI etc), is allowed to remain a potent force inside Pakistan, the hostility towards India will remain.
Sooner or later India will have to draw concrete plans to neutralize the pakistani military.

For starters, I would suggest we embark on the following path.
We should use the area of our maximum relative strength vis-a-vis pakistan to strike. Our economy and the siz eof our market are the biggest relative advantages that we have as compared to Pakistan. I suggest a plan to be carried out over the next 5-6 years to completely ruin pakistan's economy.

1). In the wake of current terror attacks, India should pass a new Anti-Terror Funding Law.
India should first officially declare Pakistan as a state sponsoring terror. Under the new law, all companies and individuals would be required to certify that they are not involves in funding terror, directly or indirectly, if they have any kind of operations in terror originating countries (read Pakistan).
What this would mean is that all MNC's, if they have operations in Pakistan, would have to certify that neither the company directly nor any of its employees or vendors are involved in funding terror. Any contributions to JuD type of "charity" organisations would be construed as terror funding.
Apart from this, all companies sourcing goods from Pakistan and also having operations in India, would also have to certify that none of the companies, including all employees, from whom they are sourcing goods, are not funding terror in any way.

The above provisions would be impossible to meet for almost all companies. What the above would basically mean is that If a company wants to have operations in India, it should cease all operations in Pakistan. If not, then till the time that the company can furnish the required documentation, its future expansion plans in India would be put on hold. The existing operations would go on, but any kind of changes to existing operations and all future operations would be put on hold.

The size and potential of the Indian market is an order of magnitude bigger then pakistan's.

The above law if executed, would mean almost all MNCs, like Pepsi, Coke, Adidas, Nike etc. would have to shut their operations in Pakistan and repatriate the proceeds from sale of their business. The companies would suffer some loss, but perhaps the Indian govt. can provide certain short term tax breaks for companies complying with the above law.

This would mean a huge loss for pakistan in terms of jobs and foreign currency. The job loss would be mainly be amongst the RAPE class and the educated elite.
Moreover, exports from Pakistan of things like textile, clothing, sporting goods etc. would take a big hit. We can offer to open multi-brand retail for the likes of walmart etc., provided they shut down all sourcing from Pakistan for their worldwide operations. Not just multi-brand, single brand companies like Gap, Levis etc. also source from Pakistan.
This would hit paki exports really hard, and also job losses and loss of business for exporting companies.

Even other essential imports would take a hit. Cellphone companies like samsung etc. can cease operations, thereby reducing the pakis to buying imported gray market stuff only, with no official after sales service.
Boeing and Airbus can be forced to stop their service and after sales operations in Pakistan, after reviewing the fine print in their existing contracts, forcing all civilian aircrafts to be flown to the gulf or elsewhere for maintenance and repairs. If the contracts don't allow closing down of the service operations, maybe with the right kind of carrot and stick approach the Indian govt. can make these companies downsize these operations. This would hinder the smooth operations of the civil air traffic in pakistan.

All of the above, would put a huge burden on the paki economy and would lead to flight of foreign exchange from pakistan.

Apart from this, we also have good expertise in Financial scams in India. Not just the good old fashioned 10% commission like Zardari, but more sophisticated stock market and bank related scams.

I would propose to start with a Ketan Parekh style stock market scam, in pakistan. Start pumping up a few chosen stock of actual companies, as well as shell companies in the karachi stock market. The operation would go on for a good two years. With high global liquidity and soaring Indian stock market, the media in pak should be manipulated to highlight this rise as a very good thing for pak and encourage maximum no. of pakis to invest.
The markets should be driven up by about 150% minimum over two years. A lot of the funding should be obtained from paki banks, the same way fraudsters in India are able to get dubious loans sanctioned.
After this, like Ketan Parekh, the inflated stocks should be hypothecated to the banks to get loans against shares.
The money thus obtained should be used to buy gold etc and send that to India.
Once a we reach a substantial amount, the stories should get planted in the paki media, exposing the shell companies and a lot of the other financial irregularities. The stocks still being held, by our agents should then be dumped enmass to crash the market.
We would also need to have a few of the mutual fund managers etc. on our payroll to do the dirty work and assist in the pumping and then the dumping operation of shares.
The markets should be crashed and with no real support from the actual economy the crash should be to the tune of 80% atleast.
Once the crash is well on the way, the stories about banks holding substantial amount of stocks as collateral should appear in the media. Every new report would add to the notional loss that the banks would be looking at. The nos. should get exaggerated with every passing report.
A few of the bank branch managers that have assisted in the passing of dubious loans, would then be used to create a temporary liquidity shortage in the banks. The reports about losses to the banks and short liquidity position, would lead to general panic and a classic run on the banks. The stock scam would have targeted only 2-3 amongst the top 5-7 banks in Pakistan, but the resulting panic and run on the banks would mostly affect the entire banking sector.

The stock market scam, resulting in big losses to a lot of people and bank problems should be used to motivate the TTP type jihadis in pakistan to declare a ban on the stock market and a ban on western style modern banking. For good measure a dozen or more grenade attacks should be encouraged on bank branches. These would be soft targets and such attacks would be easy to carry out. The attacks would be carried out by TTP like jihadis only and not by us.
If possible, a large truck bomb attack to be carried out on the karachi stock market, being labeled as a gambling den by the Jihadis and hence un-islamic..
All of the above, would bring the entire formal financial sector in pakistan to its knees.

Through lifafa media, the govt would be pressurized to not only re-capitalize the banks, but also make good all losses incurred by the public, due to the stock market crash. Also, under pressure from Jihadis and media, govt of pak to declare conversion of the entire banking sector to strict islamic banking only.
This would mean a further flight of capital from the country. Most RAPE class would use their most preferred hawala channels to take as much money out as possible and park it in Dubai, London etc.
More importantly, the repatriation from Non-resident pakis would almost stop.

The recapitalization of banks (given the corruption in pak, most banks would exaggerate the loss a-la farm loan waivers in India and get more money from the govt) and making up for some of the losses in the stock market would force to govt. to print a lot of money. Also, the loss of foreign exchange, drop in exports, drop in Non-resident receipts, and almost zero FDI, would mean that the paki rupee would have to devalue big time. With dollar tap from US now coming to a close, the coffin would tightly shut.

From the above, I would expect the following results on paki economy.
1). Paki rupee drops to between 120 to 140 to a dollar.
2). Official Inflation would be above 20%.
3). GDP growth less then 2.5%.
4). CAD to reach 8% to 10% of GDP.
5). Trade deficit uncontrollable.
6). Over 50% of pak budget to be used for debt servicing.
7). Pak officially defaults on interest on loan payments.
8). Narcotics and arms smuggling only viable options for funding paki military.

This would teach pak the anjam of dushmani with India.

Would welcome all members to details other military and non-military steps that India can take to truly punish pak for its terror activities.



One way to make these Arabic camel worshiping fanatics pay is to tell the Americans they must stop funding and arming Porkiland.

Cain Marko
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Cain Marko » 15 Jun 2015 21:08

The real problem here is US + China support to TSP. Time to engage the eagle even if this means buying some uber China specific toys. India will deter the dragon on condition that US look the other way when hot pursuit is used in pok.

Presently TSP is the yoke around the neck, China keeps making it heavier, and US is showing the carrot. India can take the carrot so long as the yoke can be lightened.

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby KLNMurthy » 15 Jun 2015 23:30

Philip wrote:Break off/downgrade diplomatic relations,build a "Great Wall of India" between India and Pak using layered defences,minefields,whatever,reduce contact with Pakis to the bare minimum and let them chew on each other to their hearts' content.
Treat Pak like a contagious disease like Ebola.Whatever swine come across our border ,turn them into roast pork! We have better things to do than waste our time dealing with Pak.It's simply futile,the Paki's army's existence and raision-d'etre is based upon hatred of India. Let them rant and rave as much as they want.Jokers like Arnab are only giving them oxygen by engaging with them whenever their is a terrorist strike,whatever. Each side simply shouts at the other.Poor fare and an utter waste of time watching the terrorist scumbags.

Now that is the overt way to go.The covert way should also be exercised and the least said about that and out options the better. Simply make them pay 100 times whenever there is a terror strike, any-which-way. Don't let them put up their guard.

How would you close off the coast from pakis?

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Cosmo_R » 16 Jun 2015 01:40


K Mehta
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby K Mehta » 17 Jun 2015 14:19

Ib4tl

ramana
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby ramana » 18 Jun 2015 19:25

Are you guys "thinking like a Paki" to see what would hurt the most? otherwise its a waste activity like "how to bell the cat?"

Gagan
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Gagan » 18 Jun 2015 20:14

Keep funding Jahil Hamid, Badmash Sharif, Zardari, Lal mulla, crore commandars etc.
They will do India's bidding and keep Pakistan dhimmified.

Wait, turns out they are doing a splendid job without funding too...
TTP, MQM, Seraki movement, Gilgit Baltistan people, Baloch are doing it anyways...

Prem
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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Prem » 18 Jun 2015 21:49

How vulnerable are Paki on Saltoro Ridge /Siachen area? Arrival of Chinese is change in material circumstances, nullifying previous understanding .

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby Cain Marko » 29 Jun 2015 03:52

In continuation of my previous post, time to.engage the US. offer to become their bulwark against China in return for.discounted uber weapons such as JSF, take a leaf out of the Pak handbook on how to engage with 800 lb gorilla without losing your manhood, even if they are to be used purely against China.
Partner up in the south China sea, offer to become a UK type poodle but only vs. China.

Ensure that the US looks the other way in our jhapads to TSP, soon enough get POK back and set up land route to Central Asia via Afghanistan. Will cost us some but then tsp two wbe out of the picture entirely. Just thinking out loud....

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Re: How to Make Pakistan Pay For Terror Activities

Postby RamaY » 29 Jun 2015 04:48

Just use Terrorists to Kill Terrorists.


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