Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 17:45

For some reason, other than 'press release', most in the defence journalist community, including me is not buying the story. Everyone seems to have their reservations on it. But, that should not kill the joy here.

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

The guys in boat set fire and burnt themselves in the boat. No one jumped etc.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 03 Jan 2015 18:01

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

With due respect, not sure under what heading to categorize the above statement. This is simply .......

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:04

I am sorry Dhiraj. I know there is going to be some blood pressure rising. But, I am trying to be brutually honest.

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 03 Jan 2015 18:07

chackojoseph wrote:For some reason, other than 'press release', most in the defence journalist community, including me is not buying the story. Everyone seems to have their reservations on it. But, that should not kill the joy here.

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

The guys in boat set fire and burnt themselves in the boat. No one jumped etc.

You're underestimating the resolve of a brainwashed Paki. So Jump into Arabian Sea in the middle of the night and go where?

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 03 Jan 2015 18:08

chackojoseph ji,

I am sure you have hopes for many things and I am equally sure you never 'hoped' for it.

Moreover, ICG boat would follow the SOP and keep itself out of the possible range of the suspected weapons but keep the suspect boat within its own range. Both things were easy to achieve.

Moreover the people on the boat were Pakis. It is in the nature of a Paki to be tactically brilliant and strategically stupid. Jo zamin mein ... woh samandar mein bhi ....

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:11

I am not looking at the SOP etc. If CG follows SOP, the Navy will be the first one to know it. Navy is terribly quite. Etc.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jan 2015 18:15

chackojoseph wrote:For some reason, other than 'press release', most in the defence journalist community, including me is not buying the story. Everyone seems to have their reservations on it. But, that should not kill the joy here.

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

The guys in boat set fire and burnt themselves in the boat. No one jumped etc.

You need to do better than insinuations. "For some reason" and "I am not buying [the pressrelease]" are meaningless phrases intended to make it sound like you know or understand something the rest of don't, but you are too good to disclose to the SDREs here.

A person who calls himself a "defense journalist" on this forum but is unable or unwilling to articulate his reservations with precision, clarity, common sense and fairness is, IMO an individual who is a self-important poseur with questionable intellect and integrity.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:17

KLNMurthy wrote:A person who calls himself a "defense journalist" on this forum but is unable or unwilling to articulate with precision, clarity, common sense and fairness is, IMO an individual who is a poseur lacking in intellect and integrity.

Thank you for the feedback on my lack of skills. I admit it.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Jan 2015 18:22

Karthik S wrote:Gurus, I've a technical question, am not questioning anything but just a query. It's mentioned that the CG chased the trawler for 1 hour. Don't you think that's a bit long. What if the boat managed to get back into paki territory, and why didn't the CG or IN order more ships to chase and stop/destroy the paki boat.

I am guessing:

a) One CG boat because one is enough.
b) The fishing boat (paki boat), pyrocraft, spotted the CG vessel at some distance and made a dash. It took about an hour for the CG vessel to close in - fire across the bow of the boat and convince it to stop. This caused the auto pyrotechnic craft to illuminate in an exothermic/endothermic manner.
c) It is possible that the boat spotted the aircraft above before the CG vessel and were on their escape and evasion routine.

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 03 Jan 2015 18:28

chackojoseph wrote:I am sorry Dhiraj. I know there is going to be some blood pressure rising. But, I am trying to be brutually honest.

but Sir, MOD statement never mentioned that there was a exchange of fire, only mention was about warning gun shots by ICG, so why such expectation.
What would have been really great is to come out with some rational reason against the authenticity of the whole story but I have still not found one. Fishermen trespassing maritime border is not something new and none have been highlighted like the one done y'day, so at least this was something different. Magnitude, Intention, cargo is something that can be debated and need thorough investigation.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:32

The chasing the trawler for 1 hour is ok. I remember MV Alandhara Rainbow (something like that) incident where crew comfortably got into the cabins below and sat. No amount of cross bow shooting by CG will stop it. But the question is if they sat tight in cabin for an hour and CG was firing only warning shots then why did the boat stop if the crew had the will to burn themselves?

Dhiraj,

I am not against the story by MoD. However, there are some reservations. I got the release 1 day ago and I waited and waited for more news as this was not adding up. Normally, if you see the ICG and paramilitary thread, i routinely post good news of CG there.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jan 2015 18:41

chackojoseph wrote:
I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

I am reminded of the early days of BRF. There would be news of 4 terrorists infiltrating and all would be shot eventually.

Then people would come on to BRF and say:
1. Hey not even one soldier was killed? Why?
2. They sent 50 soldiers for 4 men. How stupid.

If these comments are not crass lack of sensitivity, they are despicable stupidity. If your son is travelling in a bus at night and you hear that the bus has had an accident, one will thank god that your son has escaped without injuries. One would hopefully not say "Ha ha. What sort of accident were you in son? You have no injuries. Show me at least one cut or bruise"

I think we need to look our people as our sons and Pakis as foes.

What I am seeing is the attitude of people watching a bullfight. They don't care who wins. I think that is beyond contempt.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:45

I haven't said that I hope one personnel was killed. I only said there is a bullet mark. I too understand the sensitivity. However, I understand that is a bad sentence to say. So I apologise.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jan 2015 18:46

chackojoseph wrote:
KLNMurthy wrote:A person who calls himself a "defense journalist" on this forum but is unable or unwilling to articulate with precision, clarity, common sense and fairness is, IMO an individual who is a poseur lacking in intellect and integrity.
Thank you for the feedback on my lack of skills. I admit it.

It is unfortunate that you would choose to hide behind hurt pride. In any case, I said nothing about anyone's skills per se which I am not in a position to judge, only about aspects like intellectual acuity and integrity which I surmise from the writing sample.

By the way, on what basis do you make the statement, "no one jumped..."? Was it in the CG press release that no one jumped? I thought such things can only (if at all) be determined only after an investigation is carried out? And we don't even know whether there will be a decision to spend the resources needed for an investigation, which would be iffy at best given that it is on the high seas.

I see that you have made subsequent posts apparently clarifying that you are not anti- the CG in general. As far as I am concerned, I care more about carefulness, clarity and precision on the part of India's journalistic community than about whether they are willing to be shills for the defense forces' point of view.

Again, I invite you to state more plainly just what it is you think "doesn't add up." Anyone who can't do that and stand up to sharp questioning by discerning readers isn't much good as a journalist IMO.

To hell with "sensitivities". Just strive to improve the quality of your work.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 03 Jan 2015 18:47

In a high speed chase, one would expect a small boat to run out of gas. They were far from paki land at that point. Game up at that point. Pakis blow themselves up zall the time....seems we should apply Occams razor.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Jan 2015 18:48

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eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 03 Jan 2015 18:49

chackojoseph wrote:For some reason, other than 'press release', most in the defence journalist community, including me is not buying the story. Everyone seems to have their reservations on it. But, that should not kill the joy here.

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

The guys in boat set fire and burnt themselves in the boat. No one jumped etc.

What would bullet mark on CG ship prove? That the terrorists were really stupid?

Either CG killed some terrorists or some terrorists killed themselves. I really hope the former.

In case "defence journalist community" thinks that the dead were not terrorists but peaceful smugglers with high morals and decent intentions, answer two simple questions: why run? Why not dump the goods and be taken into custody?

Praveen Swami's article is the biggest load of nonsense since his article on the beheadings. The editor of the Indian Express must have been distracted when he gave him a job.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 03 Jan 2015 18:49

chackojoseph wrote:The chasing the trawler for 1 hour is ok. I remember MV Alandhara Rainbow (something like that) incident where crew comfortably got into the cabins below and sat. No amount of cross bow shooting by CG will stop it. But the question is if they sat tight in cabin for an hour and CG was firing only warning shots then why did the boat stop if the crew had the will to burn themselves?

^^^ Oh Yes, they will. Cut off the escape route and present the alternative loud and clear on the high seas. I believe there is a repeated hollering on the loudpeaker drill with sirens to make it very clear that the 'chased' must stop immediately, or the next steps will be taken (I am not sure exactly what).

So unless, one is ready to fight back, boats tend to stop and not venture too far out in to the sea. The blowing up of the boat would be to hide evidence of carried goods. So why would the CG vessel have bullet marks. And if bullet marks are that important, even I know how to make them.

We have known the Pakis to be fidayeens too. Why this noise because they blew themselves up? They have done it in the past too. What is amazing is how everyone of the 'def journalist' want to believe everything but the Government. Diesel smuggling - from Pakistan to India - come on now people?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jan 2015 18:52

chackojoseph wrote:I haven't said that I hope one personnel was killed. I only said there is a bullet mark. I too understand the sensitivity. However, I understand that is a bad sentence to say. So I apologise.

That is graceful of you. Chacko. I think what is being missed is that if one's daddy, brother or son was in a small CG ship 300 km from shore at night in choppy waters chasing a terrorist boat the outcome one would want is total victory for daddy/brother/son and no injuries. That last thing one wants is a senior officer visiting with the news that one person was killed and that was your son, or multiple visits saying the terrorists sank the ship. All hands lost at sea. 300 km offshore.

I think we need to get into the habit of believing in our own fist rather tha saying "Our people are habitual liars". The media in general never apologise for errors made and in the age of the internet, people like us who are not media but empowered are going to be extremely harsh on the media.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:53

I have not complained of hurt pride. I disagree with that. I have been very clear on my points, especially if you don't know the meaning of "every one having reservations."

I hope you will stop making me as a topic. I have already said that there is going to be some blood pressure rising. You

eklavya,

The CG says in a news item. they were not looking like fishermen. They were firing at CG which has a bigger boat. Hence, i stated that I hope there is a bullet mark.

Frankly, blowing up and immolating themselves collectively is different things.

Deejay,

They are not saying fuel was up. They said they fired to convince to stop.

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 03 Jan 2015 18:54

I think some are unbelieving because the Indian side won this encounter , without even a scratch. Yes there might be info that the government is holding back, but I don't see anything wrong in blowing up smugglers who don't follow CG instructions.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:55

shiv wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:I haven't said that I hope one personnel was killed. I only said there is a bullet mark. I too understand the sensitivity. However, I understand that is a bad sentence to say. So I apologise.
That is graceful of you. Chacko. I think what is being missed is that if one's daddy, brother or son was in a small CG ship 300 km from shore at night in choppy waters chasing a terrorist boat the outcome one would want is total victory for daddy/brother/son and no injuries. That last thing one wants is a senior officer visiting with the news that one person was killed and that was your son, or multiple visits saying the terrorists sank the ship. All hands lost at sea. 300 km offshore.

I think we need to get into the habit of believing in our own fist rather tha saying "Our people are habitual liars". The media in general never apologise for errors made and in the age of the internet, people like us who are not media but empowered are going to be extremely harsh on the media.

I agree with that principally.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 18:56

Guddu wrote:I think some are unbelieving because the Indian side won this encounter , without even a scratch. Yes there might be info that the government is holding back, but I don't see anything wrong in blowing up smugglers who don't follow CG instructions.

In Most of the cases in sea, Indian side has always won.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 19:01

Porbandar boat blast: Pak army was in control of 2 explosives-laden vessels, say officials

The National Technical Research Organization (NTRO), which had recorded the radio communication between the two boats, revealed that the terrorists had plans to repeat 26/11 carnage in Porbandar.

According to the transcripts of radio communication between NTRO and the Indian Coast Guard accessed by Aaj Tak show that both the vessels were in regular contact with Pakistan's maritime agency and the army.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 03 Jan 2015 19:03

Shiv,

Very well said. It is sad that a lot of our journalists side with those bent to destroy all of us. They don't realise that they or theirs could be the traget too one day. And how are such 'experts' completely oblivious of tactics of the enemy/terrorists ? What is so surprising about terrorists blowing themselves up ?

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 03 Jan 2015 19:17

chackojoseph wrote:
Guddu wrote:I think some are unbelieving because the Indian side won this encounter , without even a scratch. Yes there might be info that the government is holding back, but I don't see anything wrong in blowing up smugglers who don't follow CG instructions.
In Most of the cases in sea, Indian side has always won.

Is that what bothers you ? That we have won most times and you would like the score to be more even ?

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 03 Jan 2015 19:19

shiv wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:I haven't said that I hope one personnel was killed. I only said there is a bullet mark. I too understand the sensitivity. However, I understand that is a bad sentence to say. So I apologise.
That is graceful of you. Chacko. I think what is being missed is that if one's daddy, brother or son was in a small CG ship 300 km from shore at night in choppy waters chasing a terrorist boat the outcome one would want is total victory for daddy/brother/son and no injuries. That last thing one wants is a senior officer visiting with the news that one person was killed and that was your son, or multiple visits saying the terrorists sank the ship. All hands lost at sea. 300 km offshore.

I think we need to get into the habit of believing in our own fist rather tha saying "Our people are habitual liars". The media in general never apologise for errors made and in the age of the internet, people like us who are not media but empowered are going to be extremely harsh on the media.

Well said sir.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jan 2015 19:20

chackojoseph wrote:I have not complained of hurt pride. I disagree with that. I have been very clear on my points, especially if you don't know the meaning of "every one having reservations."
...

That is another useless statement with no meaning. Without stating precisely, what the reservations are and why they might make sense, your contribution to the level of information is worse than nothing, you are just making a sneaky insinuation, that's all.

I hope you will stop making me as a topic. I have already said that there is going to be some blood pressure rising. You

As a veteran BRFite, I am surprised you don't seem to have an appreciation of the degree of frustration at the execrable quality of India's journalists. Coverage of a story like this is bound to raise reactions and concerns arising from that frustration.

I understand you might feel personally targeted but I don't understand why, after posting your views as a journalist, why you would expect to be exempted from expressions of those concerns.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 03 Jan 2015 19:23

Well, to me, the rot within our media is too deep to afford them any kind of understanding.
They frankly deserve no sympathy. I agree with every kind of abuse hurled at them.

166 people killed 8 years ago . A whole city brought to a standstill and a nation humiliated. Guests of the country killed .
Pak made a mockery of the trial. Hard evidence ignored.

Fast-forward to 2014 and a strangely similar event begins to happen. CG prevents a disaster. And what does our media do? Questions veracity of events as said by GoI and makes that the main story instead of focussing on disaster being avoided.

With what integrity do they expect us to believe their version of the story as opposed to official version from a professional force like CG?
They dont have even a fraction of the discipline our security forces have.

This has gone far too long, far too far. 166 people killed. Does our media even understand that every one of those lives had a story, had relationships, friends, life events ,celebrations etc. Does our media understand the magnitude of seriousness when Pak does not prosecute those who planned this.

Indian journalists need to be shot for siding with a criminal nation.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 19:28

CG ops and IN Ops have scarcely attracted bad press from Indian journos. There is only awe from journos in Mumbai atleast where maximum news comes for naval forces (except the coastal police). This time, it was different.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 19:33

As I was pointing out how come navy was not involved. We know that first info reaches Navy. This is a deviation.

Conspicuous: silence on navy

Navy sources surprisingly said here today that they were not involved in the operation off Gujarat. The sources cautioned that they need not be aware of tactical maritime operations......

The Coast Guard operates with the Indian Navy for up to 200 nautical miles that include the Exclusive Economic Zone. Since the Indian agencies are saying the boat blew up and sank around 191 nautical miles from the Porbandar coast, the navy should have had a role.

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 03 Jan 2015 19:34

chackojoseph wrote:I am not looking at the SOP etc. If CG follows SOP, the Navy will be the first one to know it. Navy is terribly quite. Etc.

You want to say NTRO and sleuths are initiating the rendezvous with prime intel and it becomes a Coast Guards SOP to go to Navy to report it. Sorry, not convincing. Doesn't the Intel community seek primacy for its own methods and targets regularly?

I am afraid the belief in our own fist is the issue here and not the bullet mark on the ICG boat.

Pls feel free to file it as a case of spontaneous combustion. I will file it as a case of Indian marine paint being more important than 4 Pakis.

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 03 Jan 2015 19:39

The Sickular MSM is all out to dis-credit Modi govt. and are showing their true colors.

They are nick-picking on any and everything

Only my take!!!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 19:39

ravi_g,

I will explain. We have followed Navy / CG, asked them questions on coastal safety etc. What we have understood till now is that Navy (with information system) is the first one to know in such cases. That is how the chain of command works after 9/11. Navy is responsibly for the coastal (unfortunately) as well as outer. This is beyond we know.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 03 Jan 2015 19:41

chackojoseph wrote:CG ops and IN Ops have scarcely attracted bad press from Indian journos. There is only awe from journos in Mumbai atleast where maximum news comes for naval forces (except the coastal police). This time, it was different.

Your exclusive focus on "bad" vs "good" press--the definition of a corrupt media IMO--and use of terms like "awe" tells me how far Indian journalists are from grasping that the expectation is for them to be professional, honest and responsible, and not that they will just take "our side."

If I tell you that you are doing a crappy job, your response can't be that, "but I have always taken your side, saar". That you are making such a response sums up in a nutshell much of what ails India.

srin · Post by **srin** » 03 Jan 2015 19:42

chackojoseph wrote:For some reason, other than 'press release', most in the defence journalist community, including me is not buying the story. Everyone seems to have their reservations on it. But, that should not kill the joy here.

I hope ICG has atleast 1 bullet mark on their ship.

The guys in boat set fire and burnt themselves in the boat. No one jumped etc.

There is only one thing that I care about - that these weren't innocent civilians killed in fake encounter. For all other combinations (Indian fishermen smuggling, Pak terrorists captured and being interrogated now), I'm pretty much indifferent to what the cover story is.

The Govt is under no obligation to give you or me all the facts. In case of intel op like this, the Govt shouldn't be under any obligation to even tell the truth. You or I don't need to know that it was an NTRO intercept and not a humint tipoff from somewhere - let Pakis bust their ball$ figuring it out. You or I don't need to feel entitled to be given the whole story - and frankly, the article from PS and AS's tweets and your own message above reeks of hurt that you weren't/aren't in the know.

If you can figure out the truth without violating OSA, all power to you.

So do your research and come out with *facts* that can contradict the facts in the facts press release. Don't quote anonymous sources. Anything without facts is just an opinion and that just shows your bias. Until then, don't wear the badge of a "journalist" - you're just another poster on this board.

Lastly, to say that our boat should've been fired upon to prove the truth in your eyes is a despicable, disgusting and sick comment.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 Jan 2015 19:44

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 739630.cms

Did another boat of terrorists get away?

PANAJI: After a suspicious Pakistani boat, on being intercepted by the Coast Guard, exploded off the Gujarat coast on Thursday, the Indian authorities are said to be keeping an eye on a second suspected terror vessel near the maritime borders of the two countries.

Top sources told TOI that the second boat, which also came from Karachi, was spotted around the same time as the first one, by the second sortie of a Coast Guard Dornier aircraft that flew in from Porbandar. The authorities have been monitoring the Pakistani vessel off Keti Bandar, a port on the Arabian Sea, in the Thatta district of Sindh province.

An official confirmed that the Coast Guard had been monitoring the two boats that came from Pakistan since December 31. "The first one blew itself up after it was being chased by the Coast Guard ship near the maritime border off Keti Bandar. There was allegedly a second boat as well which was in operation. The search is on for the second boat. The second boat tried to mingle with the fishing boats on the Indian coast," he said.

The second boat, sources said, tried to escape attention, but a Coast Guard aircraft managed to get its approximate location and its monitoring is under way.

As soon as the terror outfit, suspected to be LeT, got wind of the first vessel having been tracked by the Coast Guard, the second boat went back into Pakistani waters and hence the Indian side is treading cautiously, said sources. The two boats were trying to take advantage of the presence of many fishing boats in the area. "The second boat is now back in Pakistani waters, and hence we are treading carefully. It is a high risk exercise for us too," said the official.

The suspected 'terror vessels' had taken a longer route than what fishing boats usually do when they enter Indian waters. The boats set out in a straight direction from Pakistan. But once they went into the high seas, the boats changed course towards Indian waters, said sources.

Another official said when the first boat was located and Coast Guard ship Rajratan was diverted to tail it, it altered its course towards Pakistani waters. "At that time, the sea was rough, the boat switched off its lights, we tried to communicate to channel 16 (a radio channel), but they did not reciprocate. We started firing, but they did not come out and they instead returned fire. They then blew themselves up."

Officials said the Coast Guard and Indian Navy were alert since December 28 after receiving some intelligence inputs. On December 30 evening, a specific intelligence was received from National Technical Research Organization (NTRO), the technical intelligence agency under the National Security Adviser, which gave approximate location of two boats.

The Coast Guard vessels sailed out from Northwest Command, Gandhinagar, and Mumbai on December 31 and January 1, since the agencies suspected that Mumbai was the target of attack once again.

Even as the operation unfolded, Coast Guard aircraft used gambit tactics to shadow the vessel, allowing it to enter deeper into Indian waters. It was only after that the first boat was intercepted by the Coast Guard ship.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 03 Jan 2015 19:45

Srin,

Govt need not tell but it doesn't men we should not ask questions or have a doubt.

You have twisted it further. CG said they were fired upon. You are claiming that i said they should have been fired upon.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 03 Jan 2015 19:48

It is really disgusting to read the nonsense from elements in the media. Even smugglers can be fired upon in hot pursuit. Warning shots in such operations are not uncommon. In fact I have heard that the Brits used 4.5" guns for warning shots. IIRC the rules of hot pursuit indicate that once the initial arrest attempt is made within your waters and the pursuit is unceasing with no contact lost, you can compel a vessel to halt even in international waters.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 03 Jan 2015 19:51

Chackoji, your colleague (journalist) has said that it is quite normal for CG operations without involvement of Navy near the shore. Chackoji please show the sentence in press release about CG claim of being fired upon.