It is ridiculous to ask the government to disclose the national security secrets.Basically few folks want to now the method, tech part of India's capability in tracking and intercepting the boat to help terrorist avoid capture next time . Pure Gaddari with Bad Neeyat and haramzadgi on part of MSM at the cost of national security.(TPUT) They give benefit of doubt to Paki, terrorist and every other Anti Indian entity and raise finger on our own security forces.BTW, lets hope Obama visit get India approval for Global Hawk or other super duper MALE HALE Maritime surveillance UAV for keeping eye on this kind of intrusions.Mort Walker wrote:The problem is that in the US, the MSM and public would never doubt the USCG or armed services. Period. They are held in high esteem and all sorts of respect for the men and women in uniform. In India the MSM attacks the very institutions and organizations that are protecting freedom.
Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
How much diesel fuel could that boat have smuggled? How much fuel would it have to burn to carry that weight. How much difference is there in the price to support this theory?sunilUpa wrote:I think Praveen is claiming this is Pakistani Internal smuggling operation - fully peaceful...ArmenT wrote:Praveen Swami was claiming that the boat was carrying smugglers and contained either diesel fuel or booze. Two really dumb questions come to mind:
1. Is there really diesel smuggling going on from Pakland to India? I thought the price of diesel was higher in their country and there was some talk about Reliance exporting stuff to them a while back? How could they smuggle it in, when it costs more in their country to begin with. I suppose it is possible if they could pipe off some diesel they get from free from Kuwait/Saudi (in which case it would indeed by cheaper than Indian diesel), but I doubt they would do that, especially if they have a shortage in their own country and can sell it on their own black market.
2. Booze? From Pakistan?? I'm aware that there are small liquor producers in Pakistan, despite being an Islamic country, but do Pakistani brands of liquor have *any* kind of market share in India at all? If so, I'm completely unaware of any such brand name. If he claimed that it was herbs, that would have made more sense.
I figured that the ship burned up because of its own diesel fuel supply for its engines catching fire, not any smuggled stuff in barrels.
Same for alcohol.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Chacko Ji, NTRO has a PR cell? Any twitter handle?chackojoseph wrote:ravi_g,
NTRO says - The occupants of the two explosives-laden boats from Karachi which had entered the Indian waters off Gujarat had plans to carry out a 26/11 type attack in Porbandar city, the officials probing the incident said.
Badly handled PR.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
They have a PR cell. I don't know about twitter.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Few questions to the MSM folks :-
Why is it so difficult to trust the Indian defense forces? Why is it difficult to give them a benefit of doubt (which indicates the presence of trust)? If tomorrow Bakistani terrorists were standing at your doorstep, would you guys be more worried about getting out of the situation alive or verifying whether the commandos actually asked orders in triplicate hard copies signed by Modi himself and attested by the President before starting the rescue attempt?
Why is it so hard to imagine what would have happened if these terrorists (highly likely that they are) landed up in a city in India and destroyed 100s of lives? Is it so hard to understand that trying to invent theories (without proof) that show the defense forces in bad light does two things
1) If "SOP" following would mean delay which may mean terrorist ending up in Mumbai and begin Jihad. You are basically rubbishing the lives lost in 26/11
2) Rubbish the capability of Indians and Indian defense forces to learn lessons (which they seem to have) and react in an appropriate manner.
If you have a theory causing khujli up in your Musharraf the only decent option you have is this : Get access all the data, or obtain data to support the theory then present that theory with the evidence in a clinical, objective manner without pointing fingers. It does two things
1) It does not put anyone who made mistakes on the defensive, they also look at it as a clinical analysis of events and what went wrong.
2) Betterment of processes that are in place to deal with such things.
What you guys are doing right now is not just inventing theories without proof, but you are presenting them with an emotional twist. That is an immense disservice to both journalism and to the nation. When a story is presented without objectivity as you guys are doing, it puts everyone involved in the defensive and people who are otherwise be open to close up and stop co-operating.
UNLESS, the emotional loading of the invented theories is DESIGNED to polarize and divide. Given the recent exposes on media behavior, I would not put it past the media to polarize Indians against Indians.
Why is it so difficult to trust the Indian defense forces? Why is it difficult to give them a benefit of doubt (which indicates the presence of trust)? If tomorrow Bakistani terrorists were standing at your doorstep, would you guys be more worried about getting out of the situation alive or verifying whether the commandos actually asked orders in triplicate hard copies signed by Modi himself and attested by the President before starting the rescue attempt?
Why is it so hard to imagine what would have happened if these terrorists (highly likely that they are) landed up in a city in India and destroyed 100s of lives? Is it so hard to understand that trying to invent theories (without proof) that show the defense forces in bad light does two things
1) If "SOP" following would mean delay which may mean terrorist ending up in Mumbai and begin Jihad. You are basically rubbishing the lives lost in 26/11
2) Rubbish the capability of Indians and Indian defense forces to learn lessons (which they seem to have) and react in an appropriate manner.
If you have a theory causing khujli up in your Musharraf the only decent option you have is this : Get access all the data, or obtain data to support the theory then present that theory with the evidence in a clinical, objective manner without pointing fingers. It does two things
1) It does not put anyone who made mistakes on the defensive, they also look at it as a clinical analysis of events and what went wrong.
2) Betterment of processes that are in place to deal with such things.
What you guys are doing right now is not just inventing theories without proof, but you are presenting them with an emotional twist. That is an immense disservice to both journalism and to the nation. When a story is presented without objectivity as you guys are doing, it puts everyone involved in the defensive and people who are otherwise be open to close up and stop co-operating.
UNLESS, the emotional loading of the invented theories is DESIGNED to polarize and divide. Given the recent exposes on media behavior, I would not put it past the media to polarize Indians against Indians.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
X Posted from the STFUP thread.
Times of India reports boat sunk by the Indian Coast Guard off the coast of Porbander was in “frequent touch with Pakistan army and Maritime Security Agency of Pakistan through a "contact".” Situation more and more looking like an event orchestrated by State Actors in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to harm India:
Times of India reports boat sunk by the Indian Coast Guard off the coast of Porbander was in “frequent touch with Pakistan army and Maritime Security Agency of Pakistan through a "contact".” Situation more and more looking like an event orchestrated by State Actors in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to harm India:
And for our domestic sceptics who are consciously or unconsciously providing a burqua / burka of plausible deniability to elements in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan indulging in an unlawful activity, be it terrorism or smuggling or both, let me point out, as has the Indian Coast Guard, that flight is deemed as suspicious by Law Enforcement authorities anywhere in the world and exercise of force to prevent flight is a legitimate use of force by enforcement authorities:“Electronic chatter shows that two Pakistani fishing boats, one of which sank after being intercepted by the Coast Guard in the Arabian sea in early hours of January 1, were in frequent touch with Pakistan army and Maritime Security Agency of Pakistan through a "contact".”
Wireless intercepts indicate ‘terror’ boats were in touch with Pakistani army"It was rogue boat, which repeatedly ignored warnings to stop, switched off its lights and tried to speed away in an area where Pakistani fishing vessels do not usually come. It's easy to raise questions about the operation but can one imagine what would been the consequences if the boat had managed to evade the security net," said an official. ……………………………
"The Coast Guard regularly intercepts Pakistani fishing boats when they come into our waters without shots being fired or people being killed. This vessel, however, behaved very suspiciously. No fishing nets were down, neither were the people dressed like fishermen," said the official.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
X-Posting this from Hari garu on the Indian Political scene thread (very apt to the discussions here):
Now, do our defence journalists realise that their half baked doubts on 'discrepancies' which are unproven as yet cause India harm? I am sure the Kagrezzi do not.Hari Seldon wrote:Here's how the kangress farty has been jugal-bandi-ing with Pak on undermining our security agencies and GoI itself...
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Till we had Maun mohan, Manio and mundu master at the helm there was no critical appraisal or discrepancy hounds. Wonlee when the man from Gujarat takes over the MSM starts looking for discrepancy.
Theek hai, we already know the partisan role played by the MSM.
Theek hai, we already know the partisan role played by the MSM.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Here is a different version from the so called govt sources
new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar ...
There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.
Highly-placed government sources, however, said the intelligence had no link to terrorism, and made no reference to any threat to India. Instead, the sources said, the National Technical Research Organisation had intercepted mobile phone traffic involving small-time smugglers operating out of the fishing port of Keti Bandar, near Karachi.
The report, the sources said, was issued directly to the Coast Guard and Navy by a mid-level NTRO official in violation of systems which mandate that any possible threat must be shared with all relevant services, including the Intelligence Bureau, the Research and Analysis Wing, and the Border Security Force.
Naval headquarters, the sources said, chose not to deploy ships in response to the intelligence, noting that it did not involve any threat to national security. However, the Coast Guard scrambled at least one interceptor from Porbandar, which was seen leaving dock by local fishermen late on the night of New Year’s Eve. (Navy's silence explained)
A senior Gujarat Police official said that the Coast Guard did not share the information with the state police which also has interceptor boats and coastal police stations meant to interdict coastal trafficking. Maharashtra Police officials also said they were given no information on a maritime operation underway on December 31, and expressed surprise since the state has several landing points and jetties that could be used by a boat carrying explosives to India’s western seaboard.
“You don’t need to be a genius to figure out we should have been told,” the official said, “because if the fishing boat was actually carrying explosives and managed to evade patrols on the seas, we should have been in position waiting for it.”
But three naval officers told The Indian Express it was inconceivable that Pakistani fishing boats — typically four-crew vessels, with an average length of less than 25 metres and equipped with 80-220 horsepower diesel engines, or smaller mechanised sailboats with 30 horsepower engines — could outrun the Coast Guard’s state-of-the-art ships. Photographs released to media showed only fire damage to the ship’s hull, which would have blown apart had incendiary munitions, such as grenades or ammunition, been on board. Plastic explosive does not ordinarily explode in fires, and only chemical analysis can detect if it was on board. Ministry sources said the Coast Guard has not retrieved debris from the area for forensic analysis. The Ministry’s press release also said that “due to darkness, bad weather and strong winds, the boat and persons on board could not be saved or recovered”. However, open-source meteorological data for the Porbandar coast for the year-end shows conditions were almost ideal right through the second fortnight of December 15, 2014 to January 1, with cloudless skies and, on December 31-January 1. There were no bad-weather warnings for Indian fishermen in the region through this period. Six years after 26/11: Broken bomb scanner, rusting bikes, no firing range Local fishermen said they had not seen the fire on December 31— raising the prospect that the incident may have occurred in international waters, some distance from the thousands of Indian and Pakistani fishing boats in the area. “I’ve been talking to our people in the area”, said Narsibhai Jungi Jadeja, the head of the Porbandar fishing boat owners’ association, “and everyone insists they didn’t see a thing. That surprises me, because a fire at night would be visible many nautical miles away”.
new evidence has begun to emerge that those on board might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar ...
There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.
Highly-placed government sources, however, said the intelligence had no link to terrorism, and made no reference to any threat to India. Instead, the sources said, the National Technical Research Organisation had intercepted mobile phone traffic involving small-time smugglers operating out of the fishing port of Keti Bandar, near Karachi.
The report, the sources said, was issued directly to the Coast Guard and Navy by a mid-level NTRO official in violation of systems which mandate that any possible threat must be shared with all relevant services, including the Intelligence Bureau, the Research and Analysis Wing, and the Border Security Force.
Naval headquarters, the sources said, chose not to deploy ships in response to the intelligence, noting that it did not involve any threat to national security. However, the Coast Guard scrambled at least one interceptor from Porbandar, which was seen leaving dock by local fishermen late on the night of New Year’s Eve. (Navy's silence explained)
A senior Gujarat Police official said that the Coast Guard did not share the information with the state police which also has interceptor boats and coastal police stations meant to interdict coastal trafficking. Maharashtra Police officials also said they were given no information on a maritime operation underway on December 31, and expressed surprise since the state has several landing points and jetties that could be used by a boat carrying explosives to India’s western seaboard.
“You don’t need to be a genius to figure out we should have been told,” the official said, “because if the fishing boat was actually carrying explosives and managed to evade patrols on the seas, we should have been in position waiting for it.”
But three naval officers told The Indian Express it was inconceivable that Pakistani fishing boats — typically four-crew vessels, with an average length of less than 25 metres and equipped with 80-220 horsepower diesel engines, or smaller mechanised sailboats with 30 horsepower engines — could outrun the Coast Guard’s state-of-the-art ships. Photographs released to media showed only fire damage to the ship’s hull, which would have blown apart had incendiary munitions, such as grenades or ammunition, been on board. Plastic explosive does not ordinarily explode in fires, and only chemical analysis can detect if it was on board. Ministry sources said the Coast Guard has not retrieved debris from the area for forensic analysis. The Ministry’s press release also said that “due to darkness, bad weather and strong winds, the boat and persons on board could not be saved or recovered”. However, open-source meteorological data for the Porbandar coast for the year-end shows conditions were almost ideal right through the second fortnight of December 15, 2014 to January 1, with cloudless skies and, on December 31-January 1. There were no bad-weather warnings for Indian fishermen in the region through this period. Six years after 26/11: Broken bomb scanner, rusting bikes, no firing range Local fishermen said they had not seen the fire on December 31— raising the prospect that the incident may have occurred in international waters, some distance from the thousands of Indian and Pakistani fishing boats in the area. “I’ve been talking to our people in the area”, said Narsibhai Jungi Jadeja, the head of the Porbandar fishing boat owners’ association, “and everyone insists they didn’t see a thing. That surprises me, because a fire at night would be visible many nautical miles away”.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Ok. Great!chackojoseph wrote:I have not seen a single news item where they have been disrespected. The discrepancy in claims are being questioned.
What about Sensational journalism??
Proof:
Did this reported went out to test the speed of the trawler himself?There is also a suggestion of use of disproportionate force since the fishing boat did not have an engine capable of outrunning Indian interceptors.
How was this conclusion reached? Where is forensic report?Was the Pakistani boat which sank off the coast of Porbandar in Gujarat in the early hours of January 1 carrying "explosives" or was it just part of a flourishing smuggling racket between India and Pakistan and carrying much harmless cargo like diesel?
Who has verified this info? What is the source?
So quote kangressis and create controversies??“How did they (government) come to the conclusion that it was a terrorist boat? It is very strange. Nothing has been explained. Which terrorist organisation was behind it?” party spokesperson Ajoy Kumar said citing media reports which have questioned the government version about the interception and the subsequent blast on board and sinking of the fishing boat.
Man this is new low in journalism???? For kangress everyone know, but why dumb s!ckular journos fall prey, i dont get it?
It is easy like catching child having his milk?A top Gujarat Congress leader today said it would have been better if at least one of the occupants of the "terror" boat had been captured alive even as he alleged loopholes in the State's coastal security.
As if, CG was groping in dark, common, understand basic thing. People know their job, dont make them like foolsA vital asset – one closest to the scene of the dramatic December 31 Coast Guard operation – that could have helped identify and elicit more information about the ‘terror’ boat was with the Navy’s Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) squadron at Porbandar. Yet, on December 31, the squadron had no information whatsoever nor was it pressed into action even after the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) tracked a communication between a Karachi-based handler and crew members of a boat said to be carrying terror operatives from Pakistan.
Who needs enemy, when you have journos like these????
It would have been digestible had this diatribe come from pakiland, but this is taking thing too far.
Last edited by ritesh on 04 Jan 2015 12:22, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
From when did Indian Farticle Express become govt source??chackojoseph wrote:Here is a different version from the so called govt sources
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
And your questions have been, without exception, nonsensical and idiotic.chackojoseph wrote:I have not seen a single news item where they have been disrespected. The discrepancy in claims are being questioned.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Still, I can see only discrepancy part. All are only clearing up that. Disproportionate force use is a not an insult. It has to be explained by the personal concerned why it was necessary. The term is used by the MoD itself and not journos. Why is the question UAV not being used a disrespect?
I am not into politics here. So cannot comment on all that.
I am not into politics here. So cannot comment on all that.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Strange how chacko first other's swamy from the "nationalist" journalists and then quotes his article to further his agendachackojoseph wrote:And why not? I am not from PIB or a government spokesman. This time, except Praveen Swamy (who always bats for pakis in my opinion) , all the journalists have done a good job.
Also note the declaration about the "anti national journo" being right when the article merely provides half baked theory with nothing solid to back it up except of course "sources".chackojoseph wrote:Pak boat explosion: Intercepts under scrutiny as Coast guard ship returns
The anti national journos were not wrong after all.
There is only one official government statement from the MoD and nothing else, I have asked you multiple times about showing whether any other government agency has issued any statement based on which you are claiming discrepancy but you haven't done that either. All you like other esteemed "journalists" have shown are dodgy theories.chackojoseph wrote:It is the government agencies which are talking out of turn and incoherent.
chackojoseph wrote:Again, discrepancy.
CG says it sunk and then returns with the charred remains of the boat. here is depth chart http://oceana.org/en/explore/marine-places/arabian-sea
Chootyape ki had hoti hain !!! Why can't CG return with "remains" of a charred boat ??? What's the "discrepancy" there ???
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
The media campaign against the CG/IN/GOI is really cranking up
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -wreckage/
Pak boat explosion: Def Min prepares for a full internal review of wireless intercepts
With MSM like these who needs enemies hanji?
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... -wreckage/
Pak boat explosion: Def Min prepares for a full internal review of wireless intercepts
So now without any evidence the CG has become "involved in the destruction of a Pakistani fishing boat".Even as the patrol ship involved in the destruction of a Pakistani fishing boat on New Year’s Eve pulled into dock on Saturday, carrying evidence that investigators believe could resolve the growing controversy over the sinking, the Ministry of Defence is preparing for a full internal review of the intercepted satellite-phone communications that led up to the operation, official sources have told The Sunday Express.
The investigation, the sources said, is intended to address the growing controversy over whether the destroyed fishing boat was carrying explosives, and whether it had any connections with terrorist groups.
Footage from cameras on board the ICG Rajratan, which arrived at the Coast Guard station in Porbandar late in the evening, as well as audiotapes of satellite conversations between its crew and their ground station, are expected to provide a minute-by-minute of precisely what happened during the operation.
...
However, forensic experts contacted by The Sunday Express noted that photographs of the burning boat showed its structure was intact, a fact inconsistent with the explosions burning munitions would normally set off. The flames also showed no signs of the white plumes characteristically associated with fires involving explosives.
“It’s quite hard to set diesel on fire,” a Naval forensics expert said. “So, investigators would want to take a close look at what might have set off the fire — which would, of course, have to include the possibility of firearms being used to target it.”
With MSM like these who needs enemies hanji?
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
All such lunatic theories are being farted out by IE, they need to be taken to cleaners on SM
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
The focus on the UAV is very strange to say the least!!
If the CG used a Dornier wasn't that enough? What *extra* edge does the UAV provide over CG *Dornier*?
If the CG used a Dornier wasn't that enough? What *extra* edge does the UAV provide over CG *Dornier*?
Last edited by pankajs on 04 Jan 2015 12:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Three questions
1) Has any journo got access to the chase video? Just to make sure the "minor chota mota smugglers" were not killed by cannon fire from CG vessel.
2) A single shot from a high caliber cannon (even the smallest one on the boat) would split that "minor smuggling vessel" into two. There wont be a fire in that case because the boat would be on the sea floor before the fire catches on
3) Regardless of the SOP If the boat is running AWAY from Indian territorial waters, why should someone tell the Mumbai police officer that a boat is coming TOWARDS Mumbai? What is the usefulness of that info?
The boat was 300 nm away from mumbai or porbandar according to reports, it would take more than half a day for that to reach these cities, how much notice do you need to assemble a tactical squad to destroy that boat? 3 days? In todays environment a commando squad or a marine squad would be an hour away at anytime. Why should the CG keep them in the loop about every little thing? Do so only as and when necessary. Mumbai police does not need to know what the CG is doing everywhere and all times do they?
Added later: WTF with the UAVs? Can UAVs are observational devices. What would it have done? Send pictures to the Mumbai police tactical squad waiting for the boat to dock and the terrorists to alight?
1) Has any journo got access to the chase video? Just to make sure the "minor chota mota smugglers" were not killed by cannon fire from CG vessel.
2) A single shot from a high caliber cannon (even the smallest one on the boat) would split that "minor smuggling vessel" into two. There wont be a fire in that case because the boat would be on the sea floor before the fire catches on
3) Regardless of the SOP If the boat is running AWAY from Indian territorial waters, why should someone tell the Mumbai police officer that a boat is coming TOWARDS Mumbai? What is the usefulness of that info?
The boat was 300 nm away from mumbai or porbandar according to reports, it would take more than half a day for that to reach these cities, how much notice do you need to assemble a tactical squad to destroy that boat? 3 days? In todays environment a commando squad or a marine squad would be an hour away at anytime. Why should the CG keep them in the loop about every little thing? Do so only as and when necessary. Mumbai police does not need to know what the CG is doing everywhere and all times do they?
Added later: WTF with the UAVs? Can UAVs are observational devices. What would it have done? Send pictures to the Mumbai police tactical squad waiting for the boat to dock and the terrorists to alight?
Last edited by member_22733 on 04 Jan 2015 12:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
The chatter is that the use of munitions by CG inflamed the liquor which burnt the boat. Liquor was onboard since the transfer did not take place.
My estimation is : It could also be that the liquor transfer too to the pakistan boat as liquor is smuggled into that goddam country due to prohibition. Liquor came from SE Asia, probably Indonesia etc.
My estimation is : It could also be that the liquor transfer too to the pakistan boat as liquor is smuggled into that goddam country due to prohibition. Liquor came from SE Asia, probably Indonesia etc.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Liquor transfer nearly 300 kms from any coast ?
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
And the people onboard the boat would risk their lives by fleeing from an Indian Coast Guard boat for carrying liquor?
Truly pathetic state of Indian journalism.
Truly pathetic state of Indian journalism.
Last edited by PratikDas on 04 Jan 2015 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Wallah another article from the one (in Mr. chacko's own words) "who always bats for pakis" being presented as proof of "discrepancies" which the article bases upon "sources". Some nuggets from the article beingchackojoseph wrote:Here is a different version from the so called govt sources
Where did the retard Swamy get the idea that CG was outran by the pakis ??? He fails to understand a simple thing that the paki retards like Swamy himself thought they could outrun CG and hence 1 hr. 30 min chase.But three naval officers told The Indian Express it was inconceivable that Pakistani fishing boats — typically four-crew vessels, with an average length of less than 25 metres and equipped with 80-220 horsepower diesel engines, or smaller mechanised sailboats with 30 horsepower engines — could outrun the Coast Guard’s state-of-the-art ships.
The fishermen folks must have superman eyes to be able to watch a fire which is 197 nautical miles faraway from the coast.“I’ve been talking to our people in the area”, said Narsibhai Jungi Jadeja, the head of the Porbandar fishing boat owners’ association, “and everyone insists they didn’t see a thing. That surprises me, because a fire at night would be visible many nautical miles away”.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
srin wrote:And you have this farticle ...
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... smugglers/
Quoting in full ...
Less than 48 hours after the Coast Guard destroyed a boat it claimed was ferrying explosives and terrorists from Pakistan into Indian waters, new evidence has begun to emerge that the victims of the operation might have been small-time liquor and diesel smugglers, ferrying bootleg cargo from the port of Gwadar to other fishing boats which were to have carried it into Karachi’s Keti Bandar harbour.
........................... {Rest Snipped}..........................
So the Indian Express wants us to believe that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is an oil rich sheikhdom awash in highly subsidised diesel which makes it profitable to smuggle diesel to India . The reality of course is that the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is no such thing and instead indulges in smuggling subsidised fuel from Iran or diverting duty free diesel transiting Pakistan to get to Afghanistan for which demand is so strong that it is completely consumed with Pakistan.
On top of that the Indian Express wants us to believe that Islamic Republic of Pakistan is either a large legal importer/producer of alcohol or surrounded by countries that are large importers/producers of alcohol . The reality of course is that obsession with Mohammaddenism has ensured Pakistan not to mention neighbours Iran and Afghanistan are not large legal importer/producer of alcohol making them unlikely sources for smuggling alcohol into India.
Talk of “small-time liquor and diesel smugglers” by Indian Express is illogical poppycock not in keeping with the ground situation about these two items.
Now if the Indian Express talked of this event as an effort to smuggle illicit opium based narcotics, forged Indian currency notes or the polio virus, its claim may have been given a more serious consideration. Needless to add smuggling in terrorists, arms and ammunition are the other mainstays that deserve serious consideration though that would destroy the Indian Expresses contention .
Last edited by arun on 04 Jan 2015 12:34, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
If the CG Dornier search/surveillance was deemed enough why the insistence on the UAV? It is not as if there was no arial search and a chase vessel was dispatched.
Does the *SOP* specifically state UAV is the *only* acceptable search/surveillance craft and the CG Dornier or say a Helo search does not *fit* the bill?
This insistence on the UAV seems more to muddle the discussion than to clarify. It falls in the same category of why CG instead of IN.
Does the *SOP* specifically state UAV is the *only* acceptable search/surveillance craft and the CG Dornier or say a Helo search does not *fit* the bill?
This insistence on the UAV seems more to muddle the discussion than to clarify. It falls in the same category of why CG instead of IN.
Last edited by pankajs on 04 Jan 2015 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Okay, I have some idea about high caliber weapons ( I have seen them in action and it was quite a sight).
So here is my question: What munitions can be used by CG that can leave the boat structurally intact and yet ignite the alcohol within the boat? It is NOT auto-cannon (or anything about 20mm caliber). The boat would lose structural integrity with just one hit. The boat looks wooden, the rounds usually destroy double hulled steel without much problems.
So here is my question: What munitions can be used by CG that can leave the boat structurally intact and yet ignite the alcohol within the boat? It is NOT auto-cannon (or anything about 20mm caliber). The boat would lose structural integrity with just one hit. The boat looks wooden, the rounds usually destroy double hulled steel without much problems.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
You cannot *inflame* liquor by just shooting at it. They would have to be incendiary rounds.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Secular diesel explosion theory did not fly. So now a more humble, smuggler carrying liquor theory. CG is supposed to ask the offenders if it is all clear to fire a warning round. On any small boat, even a crate of liquor can cause a fire. Need not be the main cargo.PratikDas wrote:And the people onboard the boat would risk their lives by fleeing from an Indian Coast Guard boat for carrying liquor?
Truly pathetic state of Indian journalism.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
I did not specify the munitions. it could be anything.Varuna wrote:You cannot *inflame* liquor by just shooting at it. They would have to be incendiary rounds.
Also the second boat can be either the boat that had transferred or come to take the transfer. This is my hypothesis.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Weren't the CG was being fired upon and in retaliation they fired warning shots ??? Why are you consistently creating "discrepancies" out of thin air ???chackojoseph wrote:Still, I can see only discrepancy part. All are only clearing up that. Disproportionate force use is a not an insult. It has to be explained by the personal concerned why it was necessary.
Last edited by Sagar G on 04 Jan 2015 12:41, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
I request members to not put so much emphasis on the need for Indian journalists to be loyal to the state or have respect for defense forces etc., and instead focus on closely critiquing the quality of the work that these journalists are turning out, with an air of doing something valuable.
By emphasizing loyalty instead of quality, we are allowing some very third-rate persons to wriggle out of being confronted with their deplorable professional standards: either they plead a record of loyalty, or cover themselves with a bogus mantle of courageous, independent journalism that raises hard questions to a corrupt establishment, or, even both in the same breath. All the while, they feel enabled and encouraged to ruthlessly carry on with peddling toxic nonsense in the name of public service.
BRF is basically a talk shop. That is not a bad thing, as through talking and challenging each other, we can develop greater clarity of thought. But giving some of these nonsense-peddlers the means to slide out from under their own nonsense is a huge obstacle in achieving this goal.
By emphasizing loyalty instead of quality, we are allowing some very third-rate persons to wriggle out of being confronted with their deplorable professional standards: either they plead a record of loyalty, or cover themselves with a bogus mantle of courageous, independent journalism that raises hard questions to a corrupt establishment, or, even both in the same breath. All the while, they feel enabled and encouraged to ruthlessly carry on with peddling toxic nonsense in the name of public service.
BRF is basically a talk shop. That is not a bad thing, as through talking and challenging each other, we can develop greater clarity of thought. But giving some of these nonsense-peddlers the means to slide out from under their own nonsense is a huge obstacle in achieving this goal.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Chakoji,
It cannot be "anything". Like I said, it cannot be high caliber, it cannot be HE rounds, as both would shred the boat to pieces.
What else? Machine gun fire? If so they should have fired it from close range at considerable risk to themselves. What are the odds that a round ended up at a precise spot in the boat to set fire to it? How many rounds should have been fired to cause such a fire?
Have you seen the video from the coastguard?
---- added rest of stuff in a separate post below ----
It cannot be "anything". Like I said, it cannot be high caliber, it cannot be HE rounds, as both would shred the boat to pieces.
What else? Machine gun fire? If so they should have fired it from close range at considerable risk to themselves. What are the odds that a round ended up at a precise spot in the boat to set fire to it? How many rounds should have been fired to cause such a fire?
Have you seen the video from the coastguard?
---- added rest of stuff in a separate post below ----
Last edited by member_22733 on 04 Jan 2015 12:58, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
No I haven't seen the video. It must have caught fire may be due to indirect reasons. But, little else can explain that fire in current information we have. Stupid smugglers must have used gunfire.LokeshC wrote:Chakoji,
It cannot be "anything". Like I said, it cannot be high caliber, it cannot be HE rounds, as both would shred the boat to pieces.
What else? Machine gun fire? If so they should have fired it from close range at considerable risk to themselves. What are the odds that a round ended up at a precise spot in the boat to set fire to it? How many rounds should have been fired to cause such a fire?
Have you seen the video from the coastguard?
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Sir, here is something more from my limited understanding of choice of weapons (guess work onlee):
the pictures that have been made public was after the boat was on fire for a while, the CG will maintain safe difference and at that time there was limited danger at that distance. Which means the boat would have been set on fire when the CG boat was much farther away. So just like you guys are doing "guess work", my "guess" is that we can rule out small arms/machine gun fire since because its not very effective at that range.
So the only option to reach the boat is a cannon, if that hit the boat it would have sunk by the time the CG reached the spot. You will be seeing different set of pictures if that was the case.
the pictures that have been made public was after the boat was on fire for a while, the CG will maintain safe difference and at that time there was limited danger at that distance. Which means the boat would have been set on fire when the CG boat was much farther away. So just like you guys are doing "guess work", my "guess" is that we can rule out small arms/machine gun fire since because its not very effective at that range.
So the only option to reach the boat is a cannon, if that hit the boat it would have sunk by the time the CG reached the spot. You will be seeing different set of pictures if that was the case.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
I dont understand "in violation of systems" part.
Every time we get a terror threat, we should fill out a form in triplicate, get it attested by a gazetted officer, stick a revenue stamp paper of the likely value of damage if the terrorist succeeds, get a magistrate to counter sign it, then issue a no-objection certificate from the collector, superintendent of police, forward the file to the cabinet secretary. Who will then make a noting and send it to defense ministry, which will then get cleared and get to the navy, who in their next scheduled meeting will pass it on to the coast guard?
See, the first instruction with any gun is that you have to always treat it like it is loaded and chambered. Even if you cannot see a magazine sticking out, you are instructed to assume that there is a round in a chamber. Similarly, you have to treat every Paki like he is wearing a soosai vest and has an AK concealed in his musharraf. If he doesnt stop when asked to stop, anything is fair game.
Every time we get a terror threat, we should fill out a form in triplicate, get it attested by a gazetted officer, stick a revenue stamp paper of the likely value of damage if the terrorist succeeds, get a magistrate to counter sign it, then issue a no-objection certificate from the collector, superintendent of police, forward the file to the cabinet secretary. Who will then make a noting and send it to defense ministry, which will then get cleared and get to the navy, who in their next scheduled meeting will pass it on to the coast guard?
See, the first instruction with any gun is that you have to always treat it like it is loaded and chambered. Even if you cannot see a magazine sticking out, you are instructed to assume that there is a round in a chamber. Similarly, you have to treat every Paki like he is wearing a soosai vest and has an AK concealed in his musharraf. If he doesnt stop when asked to stop, anything is fair game.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Anti-National Congress alleging the boat interception/blowing up by Coast Guard is a BJP publicity stunt for the Vibrant Gujarat meeting in Gujarat.
“Government should come clean on it. There is no evidence … How can you say that a terrorist attack was prevented?
“How did they (government) come to the conclusion that it was a terrorist boat? It is very strange. Nothing has been explained. Which terrorist organisation was behind it?” party spokesperson Ajoy Kumar said citing media reports which have questioned the government version about the interception and the subsequent blast on board and sinking of the fishing boat.
After SeS, Italian Congress providing Pakistanis another handle/excuse to get away scott free.
Latching on to the media reports (ofcourse of anti-national paid journalists like Praveen Swami), Congress said they raise “question marks” as to the government theory now that it has come to the fore that the local police and administration had “no clue” about any Pakistani terrorist boat.
“I do not know. Either it is done to get recognition or keeping in view the Vibrant Gujarat meeting,” Kumar said.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Bear with me for one more data point:
Let us assume that the there was indeed some ammunition used by the CG that left the boat intact and set a fire to it. What would a "rational smuggler" do? (i.e. not a violent jeehadi, but chota mota smuggler)
A rational chota mota terrorist would would wear a floatation jacket and wave frantically to get rescued.
What would make them want to burn in the fire? That too ALL 4 of them?
Let us assume that the there was indeed some ammunition used by the CG that left the boat intact and set a fire to it. What would a "rational smuggler" do? (i.e. not a violent jeehadi, but chota mota smuggler)
A rational chota mota terrorist would would wear a floatation jacket and wave frantically to get rescued.
What would make them want to burn in the fire? That too ALL 4 of them?
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
Wasn't the fact that Baki boat didn't give up and had to be chased is not disputed by anyone? Since the boat was behaving suspiciously how does it matter if it carried diesel, liquor or pakola? Or how does it matter it met its jahannum? These things are at best side issues and whole incident is not worth the hype and questioning it deserves. Sure, it is an interesting academic exercise, not the FUD the worthies are trying to plant.
Just because some folks are stirring the pot about this incident, hope MoD or others don't give out too many details. Next time any Baki boat in the same circumstances should meet the same end.
Just because some folks are stirring the pot about this incident, hope MoD or others don't give out too many details. Next time any Baki boat in the same circumstances should meet the same end.
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
To put diesel to fire you either put fire source like a fiery rag or diya-silayi into the diesel giving it sufficient time to vaporise some of the fuel. Alternatively you first vaporise some fuel then compress the vapours about four times more then you would compress petrol and if the momentary spark plug works then you will burn diesel in an IC engine. I doubt if a fast moving incendiary round would be effective against jerrycans or tanks. I would be more easily convinced of getting holes in the containers instead and the spilt fuel somehow catching fire. But then that would give ample time to jump into the sea. Whatever the occupants would do they would get the easiest death in an RDX explosion. Something that is best suggested by the scale of the fires. No smuggler would like to die for some diesel and jail time. But suspected RDX would surely keep the ICG at a safe distance from the boat. In such a case it is reasonable for ICG boat to maintain its distance from an ongoing fire since there may be more explosives expected.
Actually the initial explosion would also yield some charred debris and floatsam, that may be collected without a full fledged salvage being attempted.
The fact is the conflagration does suggest explosion of just as much explosives as are typically deployed by pakis in such cases.
Fact also is that they have the full footage available and that implies use of excellent resources. Probably they wanted to assess or probably did not know of the deployment or probably it was both. That probably explains better the use of too many 'sources' initially and now its only professional pride that prevents the defence journalism community from realising or admitting that they got used by both sides without anything to show in hand as a rational story.
If instead they had investigated how the situation may have unfolded instead of going for 'sources', then perhaps they could have added some value.
Thanks to this episode I did a lot of net fishing and I am satisfied about progress and possibilities for coastal defence
Actually the initial explosion would also yield some charred debris and floatsam, that may be collected without a full fledged salvage being attempted.
The fact is the conflagration does suggest explosion of just as much explosives as are typically deployed by pakis in such cases.
Fact also is that they have the full footage available and that implies use of excellent resources. Probably they wanted to assess or probably did not know of the deployment or probably it was both. That probably explains better the use of too many 'sources' initially and now its only professional pride that prevents the defence journalism community from realising or admitting that they got used by both sides without anything to show in hand as a rational story.
If instead they had investigated how the situation may have unfolded instead of going for 'sources', then perhaps they could have added some value.
Thanks to this episode I did a lot of net fishing and I am satisfied about progress and possibilities for coastal defence
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
It is astonishing that readers have to put with flights of fancy of journalists when they have a clear lack of understanding of basic science or common sense to realise they dont know enough and hence should not speculate until they have more data. Shaping theory to match incomplete data knowingly is beyond intellectually dishonest that one is forced to question motives.chackojoseph wrote:No I haven't seen the video. It must have caught fire may be due to indirect reasons. But, little else can explain that fire in current information we have. Stupid smugglers must have used gunfire.LokeshC wrote:Chakoji,
It cannot be "anything". Like I said, it cannot be high caliber, it cannot be HE rounds, as both would shred the boat to pieces.
What else? Machine gun fire? If so they should have fired it from close range at considerable risk to themselves. What are the odds that a round ended up at a precise spot in the boat to set fire to it? How many rounds should have been fired to cause such a fire?
Have you seen the video from the coastguard?
Loyalty is a dangerous word when it is demanded to the nation without riders. Truth and a higher sense of purpose are what journos should be loyal to, not to those who fund their outfit or their indulgences. Write the facts, separate speculation from it, clearly explain it and let readers decide for themselves. Difficult as it may seem to knowitall journos, there are far more intelligent readers than the one penning the story.
Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat
saravanaji, I logged in to say this is my thought too. We can go into endless debate whether it was diesel or explosives but the fact is it was a shady Pakistani boat near an Indian port which refused to be scrutinized by Indian CG and tried to escape. This much is enough for it to be taken down especially after Mumbai attacks. Considering 9/11, what will happen if an alien plane intrudes US airspace, refuses to co-operate and tries to escape from the chasing US jets?saravana wrote:Wasn't the fact that Baki boat didn't give up and had to be chased is not disputed by anyone? Since the boat was behaving suspiciously how does it matter if it carried diesel, liquor or pakola? Or how does it matter it met its jahannum? These things are at best side issues and whole incident is not worth the hype and questioning it deserves. Sure, it is an interesting academic exercise, not the FUD the worthies are trying to plant.
Just because some folks are stirring the pot about this incident, hope MoD or others don't give out too many details. Next time any Baki boat in the same circumstances should meet the same end.