Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 05 Jan 2015 08:41

if reports true that Pakis kidnapped an Indian fishing boat, what will India's retaliation be?

how do we escalate from there?

srin · Post by **srin** » 05 Jan 2015 08:47

Hari Seldon wrote:Time Modi-Doval sarkar covertly declare (so as to retain plausible deniability) a 'zero-tolerance' olicy on chota-mota smuggling etc. Broken window doctrine revisited, lessay... The turds who matter in the break-India camp will get the message, am sure.

Additionally to declare that any soldier/officer, any IB/Police officer and any babu - who feeds titbits of classified information to the media will be face the full brunt of Official Secrets Act.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 05 Jan 2015 08:54

We should retaliate on Sindh and Sir Creek area. Never let enemies set the agenda or preferable area of conflict.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 05 Jan 2015 09:35

Pay attention to this MoD source.

ToI: Parrikar on Pakistani boat: Evidence shows suspected terror link

NEW DELHI: Defence minister Manohar Parrikar said on Monday that "circumstantial evidence shows that the Pakistani boat which sank after being intercepted off Porbandar coast had suspected terror link".

"The Coast Guard has done right job at right time based on intelligence inputs," Parrikar said. "The Coast Guard reacted immediately, the boat was on surveillance for 12 hours and it was intercepted as soon as possible," Parrikar added.

Parrikar said that people on board the Pakistani fishing boat were not likely to be smugglers.

"I think they were suspected terrorists as they committed suicide, a normal boat even carrying drugs can surrender," the defence minister said.

Even the location of the boat also raised suspicion about it. "The location was not normal sea route, even the smugglers normally take the busy route so that they can mingle with boats," Parrikar added.

Electronic chatter shows that two Pakistani fishing boats, one of which sank after being intercepted by the Coast Guard in the Arabian sea in early hours of January 1, were in frequent touch with Pakistan army and Maritime Security Agency of Pakistan through a "contact".

Sources privy to the wireless intercepts, which led technical intelligence agency NTRO to alert the Coast Guard, claimed that the "contact" also talked to someone in Thailand on a frequent basis.

It was around 8.30am on December 31, that the Coast Guard received the first intercept about two "suspicious boats" headed towards Indian waters from Keti Bandar near Karachi. The Coast Guard then launched a Dornier reconnaissance aircraft, apart from diverting patrol vessel ICGS Rajratan towards the area.

One fishing boat was "positively identified" by the afternoon, while the other could never be traced. Then followed the "hot-pursuit" of the intercepted trawler with ICGS Rajratan firing warning shots at it, which finally ended in the boat sinking — with four people on board — around 365km from Porbander early on January 1.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 05 Jan 2015 10:02

Sounds eeriely like Dileep's Spy Story-1.

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 05 Jan 2015 10:07

Could have been a great intelligence coup if we could catch them alive and paraded in front of world media... Still a good show by NTRO and coast guard. The pakis could have blown themselves or a round fired by coast guard accidentally hit it. Either way good riddance.

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 05 Jan 2015 10:10

Chacko,
I can understand your scepticism in the turn of events. However, these guys were not innocent fisherman and fled a coast guard boat. They deserved their death. I also have some doubts on why navy and marine police were not in the loop. It could be incompetence or a new SOP that we are not aware of. Either way, it is not correct to claim that coast guard conducted a fake encounter without sufficient proof.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 05 Jan 2015 10:17

No chances will be taken.
http://www.rediff.com/news/report/pak-c ... 150105.htm
Rediff.com » News » Pak captures 2 Indian boats, 170 marine commandos deployed off Guj coast
Pak captures 2 Indian boats, 170 marine commandos deployed off Guj coast
January 05, 2015 09:57 IST
The Pakistan maritime security agency apprehended 12 Indian fishermen and seized their two boats near the international maritime boundary on Sunday, a Porbandar-based non-government organisation claimed. The incident comes close on the heels of the Indian Coast Guard intercepting a Pakistani fishing boat off the coast of Gujarat. The boat, which was said to be carrying explosives, was intercepted on the intervening night of December 31 and January 1 around 365 km off the Porbandar coast, before it exploded and caught fire and sunk with four crew members onboard.
"The Pakistan maritime security agency apprehended 12 Indian fishermen along with two boats off the Gujarat coast in the Arabian sea," co-ordinator of Porbandar-based NGO 'Sagar Bharati', Jivan Jungi said. He, however, said that the origin of these boats was still unclear.
"After returning to the coast, some of the Porbandar-based fishermen told us that the Pakistani agency captured two boats and took them to Karachi port. We are trying to acquire more details about the abducted fishermen and trying to find out from where these boats headed to the sea," he said.
According to Coast Guard Commander for Gujarat Region (North-West) Kuldip Singh Sheoran, the latest incident is still under investigation.
"We are yet to verify the incident of the two fishing boats being captured by Paksitan marine agency. We are investigating the matter," he said.
Meanwhile, to enhance security cover in Gujarat's coastal region, 173 marine commandos have been deployed at 20 police stations along the state's coastline, after the recent Pakistani boat incident......
Gautam

Patni · Post by **Patni** » 05 Jan 2015 10:26

Pakistan terror boat: Defence ministry to analyse footage

The only evidence of what took place that night now lies in the footage shot by sailors onboard ICGS Raj Ratan on the night of December 31 as the boat was intercepted off Gujarat's coast. The footage is now with Coast Guard Northwest region head Inspector General (IG) K.S. Sheoran, who flew in to collect the video evidence soon after Raj Ratan was berthed at the Coast Guard jetty in Porbandar on Saturday evening.

By Monday (today), he will be ensuring that the same reaches the Coast Guard headquarters and from there, on to the defence ministry and the intelligence agencies. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) had sought all the footage for a "thorough analysis". "We have been told to not make copies. An officer from the (ICG) Northwest region headquarters will fly in with the footage on Monday morning," a government source said.

Questions & conviction

The incident has come under intense scrutiny over the past week, with several unanswered questions (see graphic) lingering about the events of that night. For one, even though the ICGS Raj Ratan was carrying inflatable boats, it has been questioned why no boarding parties were launched to investigate the suspect fishing boat. Boarding operations are a standard procedure when maritime security personnel need to investigate a suspect craft at sea and involve a select group of sailors, the 'boarding party', boarding the vessel in question and searching them. When asked why the two rubber dinghies onboard the ICGS Raj Ratan were not used to search the boat, IG Sheoran said, "The sea was very hostile that evening. Sea state was over 4 (the degree of turbulence at sea, measured on a scale of 0 to 9) and wind velocity was beyond 35 knots (approximately 65 km/h)."

Drawing his hand west of Porbandar over a straight line, Postaria pointed to a spot on the extreme west of the map. "This is not a spot where any of our fishermen go, ever." When asked the reason for not travelling to that spot, he replied, "Apart from it being too far away, the catch you net comprises sharks and whales, which are as such not allowed. What was this boat doing in those waters is the most important question." His colleague Premji Modi said the images released by the defence ministry diminished all doubts about the boat's origin.

"Pakistani boats have a typical design and what we have seen convinces us that this was a Pakistani boat," he added.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 05 Jan 2015 10:30

Holy Molly. Biz Std a.k.a. BS states on record that India violated International law in the terror boat case.

http://t.co/2aV8hmRP7m

Should sue their pants off unless they retract.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 05 Jan 2015 10:41

If indeed proven guilty they should not be let go with a "small retraction". They should be hung as anti national traitors. The situation our national security is in demands such measures.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 Jan 2015 11:02

alexis wrote:Chacko,
I can understand your scepticism in the turn of events. However, these guys were not innocent fisherman and fled a coast guard boat. They deserved their death. I also have some doubts on why navy and marine police were not in the loop. It could be incompetence or a new SOP that we are not aware of. Either way, it is not correct to claim that coast guard conducted a fake encounter without sufficient proof.

I never accused of fake encounter by CG. The excess force comment was borrowed. I just found it unbelievable as Navy was not involved. CG does a lot of stuff, but 350 kms into sea and pak boat interception without navy was baffling. I admit that I am not informed in real time, but even the local sources were clueless. Then came NTRO news which said it was terror attack. SOP did fail in my knowledge but let the MoD announce it.

Secondly, I never suspected them to be of being a fisherman. Initial doubt was arms transfer. Then the news of them being smugglers. It also was a possibility. They do smuggle liquor and other stuff to Pakistan via land border too.

I don't know and don't care who first accused me of doubting the incident as I have put some 5-6 guys in ignore list including a guy claiming that he was a BR veteran. That bullet mark on the boat comment was very obscene for which I regretted already.

I consider this as very bad PR from the government. Anyway, since the govt has now decided to take another look , we will have to wait and see. Parrikar too has shot off from mouth. He says that it had terror links under circumstantial evidence (earlier they said it was arms). Then he claimed that why would smugglers keep in touch with maritime authority, so my question is why will terrorist keep in touch with maritime authority instead of the so called non state actors. CG has already issued the statement that they lit fire to boat and then it exploded, Parikkar asks why did they explode the boat? Most of us are confused here. However, he is right on congratulating the CG and NTRO in timely stoppage of the boat. Entire thing should have been handled in a more coherent manner. What was CG hurry in shooting off a press release even before the CG ship reached the shores and the situation was evaluated? Even US evaluates its claims before a press brief. If they do it earlier, they use cautious words. This gives an advantage to pakis in perception game. Another revelation is that pakis were fully prepared for such an eventuality after 9/11 and appeared to have commissioned their source/s in India for a denial.

Thank you for putting it across politely.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jan 2015 11:10

Chacko-> But some journalists and INC has gone overboard by virtually parroting the Paki line also. That is also condemn able making it a BJP thing, These sort of actions are also not good.

partha · Post by **partha** » 05 Jan 2015 11:11

chackoji, good PR by GoI still won't prevent Praveen Swami types from coming up with imaginary grandma theories and creating confusion and doubt in the minds of Indian readers. How do we solve that problem? MOD could bar all agencies from talking to the media directly during these incidents and instead pass on all the data to MOD. MOD should be the single point of contact for journos to get info from.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 05 Jan 2015 11:13

g.sarkar wrote:
...
Meanwhile, to enhance security cover in Gujarat's coastal region, 173 marine commandos have been deployed at 20 police stations along the state's coastline, after the recent Pakistani boat incident......
Gautam

How does it make sense to disclose in the media such exact information about force deployment? Can't the spies be at least made to earn their pay?

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Jan 2015 11:21

I hate to insert anything here again. But I have yet to see any journ-anal-cysts ask a single question of the pakistanis. Was it their boat? Were there two boats? Who was on it? What were they doing?

Instead, now the journ-anal-cysts having gone too far over board are busy covering their behinds in ghee to save them (or was it cause) brain leporosy.

How self important do you folks think you are? The media is not supposed be a reflection of your pathetic ego.

Not one worthy has put 2+2 together. For example, the Rajshrees are 300t, 50m, 35knot vessels. If the chase was 1 + hour and boat was 350 miles off shore then what does it add up to? Mars orbiter? No, you must be properly bottle fed, or you will throw temper tantrums.

No, god forbid someone called your bluff. You dont deserve posting privileges on an internet forum let alone face on national media. How do you justify youself -- Just puting food on the table?

Learn to correct your mistakes, not turn your back on them. One more thread out of my reading list.

ps -- re. disclosures by GoI have been at par with or better than australia, china, korea (cheonan?), malaysia, indonesia, israel, .... and there is nothing wrong about noting generic numerical strength either. Its not like that is static or that they will send a container ship with 10x numbers. stop hyperventilating. what happenned, happens dozens of times a year. if this was 100tonnes of drugs, that is the budget of a medium size mafia. no wonder there is bellyaching.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 05 Jan 2015 11:26

Hari Seldon wrote:Holy Molly. Biz Std a.k.a. BS states on record that India violated International law in the terror boat case.

http://t.co/2aV8hmRP7m

Should sue their pants off unless they retract.

Now it's CG's word against 4 men enjoying 72 doe-eyed virgins.

à¤µà¤°à¥à¤£ · Post by **à¤µà¤°à¥à¤£** » 05 Jan 2015 11:39

The amount of khujli-based-FUD emanating from usual quarters makes me think this was some high-value "cargo" that had powerful backers in the padosi mulk and at home

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 05 Jan 2015 11:42

chackojoseph wrote:Thank you for putting it across politely.

chackojoseph ji,

The word 'encounter' I think was introduced by me in this thread. And if you read it carefully it was not directed at you (I took enough care to draft it for a fellow BRF member). But that is exactly what PS is suggesting. And the dumb Shooklaw has added his own histrionics to it all despite that fact that he is an ex-armyman who already knows enough and yet he chooses to do it.

Additionally I would suggest (I give it as priceless and you have full freedom to treat it as worthless or in every other way) - These days are a bit hot in terms of information warfare. Pick and choose wisely. The days where you could do an honest reporting even by cross-checking against the people supported by the old establishment are gone. You need to do multiple checks and take special care writing the contexts/pretext/subtext of the sources themselves too. Sources may easily be plants themselves. Foreigners used to do information warfare till now exclusively because UPA was basically a doormat with welcome written on it.

But the new guys in are not a doormat personality and will retaliate in terms of information warfare only. PS took the full brunt of it. People he used to rely on earlier, are today desperate themselves and will catch anything for support. Today they feed him trash which he idiotically reports. Manu Pubby, PS, Shooklaw, Undie etc. have been tracked by SM since quite early.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jan 2015 12:03

The worms and quislings are all appearing out of the woodwork in support of Paki terror. The INC should stand for Indian National Cowards,and the insinuation of their windbags that there was something "fishy" about the incident is tantamount to treason. The GOI should be lauded for the swift decisive action taken .My only query is whether the speed of terror vessel posed problems for that of the CG interceptor. Perhaps the next series of CG/IN fast craft should be substantially enhanced to meet such situs. This is one example where the possession of amphibians which could've carried commandos along with their RIBs,could've been an option.The second boat wouldn't have got away that easily if at all.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 05 Jan 2015 12:11

partha wrote:chackoji, good PR by GoI still won't prevent Praveen Swami types from coming up with imaginary grandma theories and creating confusion and doubt in the minds of Indian readers. How do we solve that problem? MOD could bar all agencies from talking to the media directly during these incidents and instead pass on all the data to MOD. MOD should be the single point of contact for journos to get info from.

Then, it becomes like Pakistan / China etc. I am asking for a review in such incidents and then come out with it. CG could have done this. DRDO now does this. Navy does this. I hope they learn. In US etc, they conduct through review and then weed out unwanted stuff. Of course that does not let journo's from probing further and writing their opinion or a insider blowing a whistle or planting stories (which is ok and it makes our world safer or unsafer). But this is a very bad example IMHO and it includes Parrikar comments on in touch with maritime authority. Anyone who is knows even a little bit will know that the maritime authority call center is manned like most other government type call centers. The call center guy needs to be only told that the ship is being intercepted by IN and please advice without divulging or lying about the cargo.

Pakis have now an edge on perception battle. In the factual battle, both what Indian govt "now says" and Indian Express's details on the smuggler's is now going to be laughed off or doubted. It is not that it won't be doubted if the response was more coherent, but perception matters too.

ravi_g wrote:

chackojoseph ji,

The word 'encounter' I think was introduced by me in this thread. And if you read it carefully it was not directed at you (I took enough care to draft it for a fellow BRF member).

I end up being a villain for doubting the operation itself.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Jan 2015 12:16

I am not sure that the boat was 350 Kms from the shore. All initial reports suggest the the incident took place 360 Kms from Porbandar. That distance from port you can draw a semicircle and you will be 360 Kms from the port. The ends of the semi circle will touch the shore nicely.

Secondly, no where in the CGs mandate does it say that it will not interdict any boat more than 12 nautical miles from shore. It says what will will do, not what it will not do.

So where is the doubt coming from. If not from the willful decision to cast aspersions on the GOI ?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Jan 2015 12:29

I do not understand this ruckus that has been raised. Pakistanis came in a boat, India had prior information about a suspicious boat from Karachi, the boat was identified, coded conversations were recorded, the CG challenged them, those in the boat tried to evade, they took all measures not to be identified, CG fired warning shots across the bow but that did not deter them, and finally the boat-borne people either self-destructed themselves along with the boat or the CG fired at them leading to an explosion or the CG somehow set them upon fire. What is there to 'prove' in this? Why should our armed forces prove every action of theirs? I can understand if policemen kill Indians in encounters and then there is a demand to disclose all information about the encounter. These are Pakistani terrorists (we assume every Pakistani to be a terrorist and it is up to them to prove it otherwise) who deserved to get the end they ultimately got and here we are feeling 'suspicious' about the actions of our brave defenders. There is something fishy in this, not in the incident per se.

partha · Post by **partha** » 05 Jan 2015 12:40

Highly placed sources in Pakistan police have said the boat is linked to Karachi's drug mafia so why is DM still persisting with terror tale?

Can't DM just accept he was wrong now that Pakistan police have found out the truth?

Can't Indians just accept that Kasab was actually Amar Singh as claimed by highly placed sources in Pakistani establishment and move on from Mumbai 26/11?

That Indian Express report has been jointly authored by a Pak journo and Praveen Swami. Not sure what's Praveen Swami's contribution to the article. It's a Pakistani version of the event. It may as well have been dictated by ISPR.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 05 Jan 2015 12:47

SSridhar wrote:I do not understand this ruckus that has been raised. Pakistanis came in a boat, India had prior information about a suspicious boat from Karachi, the boat was identified, coded conversations were recorded, the CG challenged them, those in the boat tried to evade, they took all measures not to be identified, CG fired warning shots across the bow but that did not deter them, and finally the boat-borne people either self-destructed themselves along with the boat or the CG fired at them leading to an explosion or the CG somehow set them upon fire. What is there to 'prove' in this? Why should our armed forces prove every action of theirs? I can understand if policemen kill Indians in encounters and then there is a demand to disclose all information about the encounter. These are Pakistani terrorists (we assume every Pakistani to be a terrorist and it is up to them to prove it otherwise) who deserved to get the end they ultimately got and here we are feeling 'suspicious' about the actions of our brave defenders. There is something fishy in this, not in the incident per se.

Agree -- very strange of Indian media to create ruckus about an incident in which no Indian citizens were harmed. Something is fishy -- looks like Goras (patron saints of Pakistan) or ISI directly has built up a mechanism to manipulate editors to get the kind of coverage they want to serve their national interests.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 05 Jan 2015 12:51

But, didn't Pak say that the boat had nothing to do with Pakistan at all?

Pakistan rejects report on blowing up of boat off Gujarat coast - India Today

Pakistan has rejected India's claim that the crew of a Pakistani fishing boat blew up and sank their vessel in an attempt to evade capture at the hands of the Indian Navy in a high-speed chase at sea, Geo News reported Saturday.

Pakistan Foreign Office spokesperson Tasneem Aslam denied that any boat from Keti Bunder port of the country's Sindh province had sailed off.

Sources in the foreign office termed the Indian claim as mere propaganda to tarnish the image of Pakistan, the report added.

In a first reaction, Pakistan's foreign ministry said it was unclear whether the incident had happened at all.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 05 Jan 2015 13:38

So Pakistan foreign office denies that there was a boat. Indians say there was a boat with a possible terror angle. "Neutral" praveen swami says it was "merely" a boat carrying drugs that belonged to a blood thirsty gangster accused of several murders.

I for one am happy it got caught and committed soosai.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 05 Jan 2015 14:22

Somewhere in the last 67 years since 1947, a lot of us have become afflicted with the "Stockholm Syndrome". Folks like PS will peddle BS and folks like retd Col. will propagate it further. A retired Admiral will come and say they were 04 so terrorism is not a concern anymore. Should we have an SOP where we list out the following:

a) 04 people and below are not to be killed / engaged as they cannot be involved in any acts of terrorism whatever be the evidence to the contrary.
b) If there is a direct intelligence that the incoming terrorists are going to carry out 'chota mota' bomb blast, they must be allowed to do so.
c) All operations against Terrorism must be cleared, vetted and witnessed will full access to all details, from our large body of Defence Journalists. Till such journalists have been assembled, permission sought and arrangements for their safe presence as witness is ensured, all actions by Indian Security agencies will be treated as a violation of International Law.
d) Live and ongoing military action must be covered and aired directly and beamed across the world with the most intimate details of Indian security apparatus or it is an infringement on Freedom of Speech and hence denial of a Fundamental Right.
e) The journalists right to seek the truth supersedes the right of an Indian to be secured by the security agencies.
f) Public Relations Officers / personnel should be the most trained and capable people in the defence apparatus. Poor PR will make the security set up (and hence India) as whole liable to a public global flogging. PR is the most important part of the security set up's job.
g) The media and defence journalist have a right to represent the side of Pakistan or the enemies against the Indian Security set up or GOI as the case may be. All security related activities are essentially wajibul critique from a Paki perspective and hence this should be the guiding thought among our security personnel while on any operation.
h) Any given Indian security action will be treated halal only after a 'gora' confirmation of the action either from the 'gora' media or from Chee Aayee Yea, Eff Bee Eye, Em Eye Six, etc.

This is my brief list. I am sure we can all make this SOP more elaborate ( for eg: filing in triplicate etc).

P.S.: I have a tag line for our DDM def journalists: "Discredit India"

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 05 Jan 2015 14:34

SSridhar wrote:But, didn't Pak say that the boat had nothing to do with Pakistan at all?

In a first reaction, Pakistan's foreign ministry said it was unclear whether the incident had happened at all.

[/quote]

On further questioning by journalists Pakistan's foreign ministry spokeswoman wondered whether 72 virgins will be available to the 4 alleged matyrs if they were not true Pakistanis. She also said she was not clear whether Pakistani national killed by Indian Coast Guards 350 NM away from Pakistani shores will qualify as matyrs. When journalists reminded her of precedence set after "Kargil victory" when Matyrs who were officially not Pakistanis were awarded Nishane Jurrat, she said Government of Pakistan was unclear whether Kargil indecent happened at all.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Jan 2015 14:43

Philip wrote:The worms and quislings are all appearing out of the woodwork in support of Paki terror. The INC should stand for Indian National Cowards,and the insinuation of their windbags that there was something "fishy" about the incident is tantamount to treason. The GOI should be lauded for the swift decisive action taken .My only query is whether the speed of terror vessel posed problems for that of the CG interceptor. Perhaps the next series of CG/IN fast craft should be substantially enhanced to meet such situs. This is one example where the possession of amphibians which could've carried commandos along with their RIBs,could've been an option.The second boat wouldn't have got away that easily if at all.

phillip,

35kt (quoted for rajshree class) should be good enough for most. Endurance will make sure "they" run out of fuel first even if 35+kt , the Do228 is overhead. There arent many options except to ground/abandon/burn.

In sea state 4 you are not sending smaller ships, nor needlessly try RHIB/VBSS. What horsepower would a boat that also burns need -- to go 35+kt? I am sure it is obvious to you that nothing "started" chasing from the coast here. You cant cover every inch. This took an hour to catch up in open sea.

The 50+kt boats dont look like the burning vessel. And in sea state 4 they arent venturing south-west either.

The CG is relatively free of casualties, it is better the way it is. Faster options -- smaller interceptors bought after mumbai, the dworas in navy exist. The CG needs to keep a friendly posture relatively speaking.

This time, I will discipline myself and bow out of this one. really.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Jan 2015 14:48

SSridhar wrote:I do not understand this ruckus that has been raised. Pakistanis came in a boat, India had prior information about a suspicious boat from Karachi, the boat was identified, coded conversations were recorded, the CG challenged them, those in the boat tried to evade, they took all measures not to be identified, CG fired warning shots across the bow but that did not deter them, and finally the boat-borne people either self-destructed themselves along with the boat or the CG fired at them leading to an explosion or the CG somehow set them upon fire. What is there to 'prove' in this? Why should our armed forces prove every action of theirs? I can understand if policemen kill Indians in encounters and then there is a demand to disclose all information about the encounter. These are Pakistani terrorists (we assume every Pakistani to be a terrorist and it is up to them to prove it otherwise) who deserved to get the end they ultimately got and here we are feeling 'suspicious' about the actions of our brave defenders. There is something fishy in this, not in the incident per se.

Sridhar,

The only easy way to set fire is to VBSS. Then the four are singing. Not enjoying their hoors. If you look at Rajshree class, it has nothing that will burn a diesel boat like the pictures show.

Edit -- damnation, there goes the discipline.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 05 Jan 2015 14:52

Has this been posted here before? Gives a clear time line. Also there is no "discrepancy" regarding Navy not in loop. Wonder why most journalists opposing GOI claim not countering Nitin Gokhale.

http://nitinagokhale.blogspot.fi/2015/0 ... ut-to.html

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 05 Jan 2015 14:54

Pratyush wrote:I am not sure that the boat was 350 Kms from the shore. All initial reports suggest the the incident took place 360 Kms from Porbandar. That distance from port you can draw a semicircle and you will be 360 Kms from the port. The ends of the semi circle will touch the shore nicely.

Secondly, no where in the CGs mandate does it say that it will not interdict any boat more than 12 nautical miles from shore. It says what will will do, not what it will not do.

So where is the doubt coming from. If not from the willful decision to cast aspersions on the GOI ?

This makes a ton of sense. After the initial media jerk, now people are thinking. The location itself is not very important to disclose for open source discussion (and probably kept that way intentionally), but this post showed that I too was eating a south/south-west lemon with my grapes.

Everything else still holds though.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 05 Jan 2015 15:03

In US etc, they conduct through review and then weed out unwanted stuff. Of course that does not let journo's from probing further and writing their opinion or a insider blowing a whistle or planting stories (which is ok and it makes our world safer or unsafer).

Actually, when USA gives clean chit to pakis and pakis have already washed hands off the boat, the journalists of USA have not asked whether the most powerful country USA, with numerous satellites and human intelligence, knows whether

(1) the boat with terrorists, explosives and drugs has indeed come from heaven?

I am not sure if journalists of USA has ever asked such questions while USA has given clean chits to jihadis state.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 05 Jan 2015 15:05

Hmmm...small time smugglers?
Like Dawood Ibrahim?

The kind of stuff we put up with is ridiculous.
Leeway given to criminals, terrorists and thugs VS "show me at least bullet proof"/"bad PR".

Whole thing looks suspicious->show me bullet proof-> bad PR-> bad coordination > bad call center
Make no mistake...even if everything goes perfectly, there will be something that India will do wrong which "EVEN" Botswana will get right.

Pakis have now an edge on perception battle. In the factual battle, both what Indian govt "now says" and Indian Express's details on the smuggler's is now going to be laughed off or doubted. It is not that it won't be doubted if the response was more coherent, but perception matters too.

And that gentlemen, is an example of how even if we do everything correctly, we will still lose because there is a non-tangible stuff like perception which only Amreekis can get right.

Perception by whom? Will Pakis cry "AlllahOakbar" and arrest and hang Hafiz Saeed or will Amreekis cry "Hallelujah" and stop the $1 billion aid if we had the perception part right. We still want certificates.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 05 Jan 2015 15:20

Chacko Sir,does the SOP says that CG has to inform Navy about every smuggler / fisherman they apprehend?

NTRO got some interesting intel. Mid level officer takes initiative and decides to check validity and contacts Navy / CG. In the process of verifying the ship and cargo the damn thing blows up. Now the mid level babu thinks this was something more than smuggling, trafficking etc... can we blame him for that?

CG got intel it acted and tried to verify the same following all procedures. Was it supposed to check with Navy first?

Apparently, both Navy and CG got the intel at the same time. CG acted and Navy didn't. Who's operating procedure are we checking?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 05 Jan 2015 15:27

Oops you have Kasab -> Sorry, non-state actor.
Boat blown in midsea with Pakis dead & boat sunk -> What boat? Which Pakis?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 05 Jan 2015 15:38

Neela wrote:Oops you have Kasab -> Sorry, non-state actor.
Boat blown in midsea with Pakis dead & boat sunk -> What boat? Which Pakis?

Exactly, and it's the Indians who is doing that, including some on BRF. Sigh.

These guys don't get it. Some times it is required to support the govt. line, period.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 05 Jan 2015 15:50

^^ That's what I don't understand -- what was the reason for the Coast Guard to issue a press release about the incident? Government needs to stop issuing press releases about intelligence / national security operations and kill quietly. Let the media find it out on its own -- the response of the government should be: "No comments."

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Jan 2015 15:55

Now this incident raises concerns about the Fiberglass boats US is gifting to the Pakistani coast guaard, fiber glass is not so radar reflective and could be a real pain for us.