Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chetak » 09 Jan 2015 11:47

pankajs wrote:Indian seekoolar media has taken upon itself the task of saving every seecoolar *tourist* from across the border even at the cost of India lives .... pshhhh ... mostly kamoonal anyways. Their main grouse is that a government that espouses *Atithi devo bhava* is not really implementing it in the correct spirit IMVVVVVVVVVVHO.

Nothing else explains their obsession with trying to muddle the issue.


No need to look too far for the obsessions

money, track thoo and paki poontang opportunities onlee.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_22733 » 09 Jan 2015 11:53

The question everyone must ask themselves is this: Before you accuse your own family member of a crime would you just start spinning conspiracy theories and random imaginary possibilities pulled out of your musharraf, or would you try to go by Occam's razor based on hard evidence you got and trust the testimony of your own family member to draw a conclusion (or no conclusion if there is not enough evidence)?

If you are pulling conspiracy theories to spin doubts on your own family member in order to try and incriminate him/her then you must have some psychological problem for you are not acting as a normal/rational human.

The hard evidence and the testimony of our family member (that is the CG, Navy if you dont yet get it) and Occam's razor points to 4 piglets (aka Bakis) who were upto no good. Who then self-destructed avoiding their eventual capture by CG had they not killed themselves.

Jai-chand and Mir Jaffar are in good company going by some of the stuff being posted by eminent Indians (on twitter and in the media).

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby SSridhar » 09 Jan 2015 11:54

pankajs wrote:Nothing else explains their obsession with trying to muddle the issue.

In the absence of revealing their motivation for the stance they took, we have to come to our own conclusion and what you said may unfortunately be one reason. How sad it would be, were it to be true that 'beliefs' barge into national security. I have been gently prodding the 'pro fair investigation' lobby to come out with exactly what motivates them. But, no luck.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby deejay » 09 Jan 2015 12:14

chackojoseph wrote:ramanna,

Let me decide what I want to do. ...


Your moral high ground is confusing. You accuse 'Indian' CG of violations without evidence and when people object you do not retract but justify. In fact, you take exceptions by saying:

chackojoseph wrote:... I must also add that particular section of this forum, in their zeal for personal attacks, have tried to assign the blame on others that CG action is questioned. ...


Yet, when you are questioned you take a high ground.

P.S.: Okay, at least you retracted the bullet mark thing when called out. Time to retract the non adherence to SOP thing too since IN has stated it was in the loop, no?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Neela » 09 Jan 2015 12:21

To put things in perspective, the larger media community , bar a few rebuttals, have remained mute spectators to the mischief-maker-in-chief Praveen Swami. What to make of that silence.

But Fakingnews has a piece on Naveen Swami and a large majority agree with that.

Thats telling something. Seriously, these guys are a disgrace to themselves.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby deejay » 09 Jan 2015 12:30

SSridhar wrote:
pankajs wrote:Nothing else explains their obsession with trying to muddle the issue.

In the absence of revealing their motivation for the stance they took, we have to come to our own conclusion and what you said may unfortunately be one reason. How sad it would be, were it to be true that 'beliefs' barge into national security. I have been gently prodding the 'pro fair investigation' lobby to come out with exactly what motivates them. But, no luck.


Gentle with the kind who are at best "Laaton ke bhoot..."?

If they had a conscience, they would openly state their choice of nationality. They want to enjoy Indian hospitality (atithi devo bhava...) and serve their masters whether in China or to our 'West". Jaichand's, Mir Jaffars are enjoying the fruits of liberty we give them.

There are three kinds who are muddling the situation:

1) Those who see China as the sole saviour of India.
2) Those whom ISI, CIA etc have paid and compromised.
3) The INC support system who have lost all - power, contracts, contacts, etc (essentially their means of livelihood). These were the people who would have learnt of the CG ops as soon as the order to launch had been given. They would have given us the breaking news and covered the 'Ops' as it happened riding on a Navy or a CG ship reporting 'on site'. They would have been the toast of the town for getting in the good cheer. You see their access has been cut. Hence, they call it a 'bad PR' job.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby KLNMurthy » 09 Jan 2015 12:33

Something to think about:

How is it that the dumb, and arguably wicked public personalities, including some journalists get away with it, while supposedly more intelligent SDREs with reasonable level of collective resources are left to gnash their teeth, or plead with the fools in an effort to make them see reason, or maybe just expose themselves to bredators by losing their temper out of sheer frustration? After the 10000th creative and witty way of denouncing these foolish and bad actors, and the 15 billionth brilliant insight into their perfidy, have we come any closer to even mitigating the harm they are doing? We can't even get Praveen swami banned from twitter for hate speech against Hindus, though we might whinge about how the reaction would have been different if his targets were Muslims.

We are, I think, perhaps not very good at fighting protracted wars with tangible targets and goals. It is telling that BRF is far and away the best collection of civilian intellect and patriotism, outside of maybe the RSS perhaps. Yet here we are--collectively, not even very good chess players when confronted with national-security-threatening fools, even unto this very forum. Or maybe all the best organizing and movement-running, pisko-propagandu (even those mocking expressions reveal how little we value these key skills) talent is with the committed lefties.

Modi-Doval-Shah are not supermen, they can't do it all by themselves and they have a very weak bench to play. It is up to us , who believe ourselves intelligent and resourceful, to come up with effective ways to put the fear of a righteous God into the hearts of those who would harm our country. We need to grow the capabilities to do so, and in a hurry.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Pratyush » 09 Jan 2015 16:39

chackojoseph wrote:No one has disagreed or disregarded with CG action. The crux of the matter is what it was - a smuggling boat or a terror boat.


One question the needs a clear answer. Has the CG claimed that they sank the boat. Has the GOI claimed that the boat was sunk as a result of the deliberate policy.

Please provide the evidence of a deliberate action from the Indian side for the sinking of the boat. The excited posters on the BRF claiming that this boat was sunk by the CG is immaterial.

If you can present one claim by the GOI (Not off the cuff remarks by some ill informed minister) that the boat was sunk as a result of deliberate Indian action. Lets continue the line of discussion regarding the merits of the action.

ELSE STOP PROVIDING AID AND COMFORT TO THE ENEMY.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 16:51

Why are you asking that to me? I am no way connected to a claim that CG sunk the boat. Infact this is a new one to me.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Pratyush » 09 Jan 2015 17:06

Good that one point has been cleared.

The second point is, what does is matter if it was a terror boat or a smuggler??

The Indian EEZ extends to 200 nautical miles (Approx 380 KMS) from the shore. Correct?

Indian cost guard asked the boat to stop in that region. Correct?

The boat tried to escape. Correct?

The CG gave chase. Correct?

Fired shots across the bow to make the boat stop. Correct???

The boat stopped and some time after caught fire & sank. No one knows the reason why the boat caught fire. Correct??

What is the relevance of the nature of the boat.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 17:39

Well, I will tell you my perspective, a repeat. My disbelief was because navy is over all incharge and if it was a terror boat, then why navy did not get involved. At that time Naval involvement was not known. If there were 2 terror boats why CG sent just 1 craft?

Since there was a debate if it was a terror boat, why the existing SOP did not work? So, if it was just CG acting then the threat level should be lower, probably smugglers. But all that was only guessing.

I am just limited that. There is no berating of CG action etc. At the time I said that something did happen. I was only hoping that there was some evidence. Thats how it started.

My current point is that the PR was badly handled. Some in forum are claiming that defence minister clarified that it was terror boat. I reminded that defence minister said circumstantial evidence and he said that he will produce evidence later on.

I hope that is clear.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 09 Jan 2015 17:44

The coast guard is the initial point of defense of our Borders like the BSF for land. Does thearmy charge in for every terrorits intrusion along our Borders ?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2015 17:45

prasannasimha wrote:The coast guard is the initial point of defense of our Borders like the BSF for land. Does thearmy charge in for every terrorits intrusion along our Borders ?


+1

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 17:49

prasannasimha wrote:The coast guard is the initial point of defense of our Borders like the BSF for land. Does thearmy charge in for every terrorits intrusion along our Borders ?


Since 9/11, there is a change in the policy. I have mentioned it already and is a repeat. Navy is over all incharge. The parallels cannot be now drawn with Army and BSF.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby KiranM » 09 Jan 2015 18:04

chackojoseph wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:The coast guard is the initial point of defense of our Borders like the BSF for land. Does thearmy charge in for every terrorits intrusion along our Borders ?


Since 9/11, there is a change in the policy. I have mentioned it already and is a repeat. Navy is over all incharge. The parallels cannot be now drawn with Army and BSF.


Ever thought that CG assets were at hand for the fastest possible reaction? Also Navy being in charge does not mean CG will not be used. To swat a fly (a fishing boat) you do not use a hammer (IN warship) but a swatter (CG patrol vessels). Regarding the 2nd boat, I remember reading that it developed some problems and returned back to Pak. So why would CG or even IN pursue it and end up actually breaking international norms?

Parallels can be drawn with Army and BSF like how they manage the counter insurgency in J&K. Army is the overall in charge but it does not mean BSF, CRPF or JK Police do not engage threats on their own when warranted.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 18:14

KiranM wrote:Ever thought that CG assets was at hand for the fastest possible reaction? Also Navy being in charge does not mean CG will not be used. To swat a fly (a fishing boat) you do not use a hammer (IN warship) but a swatter (CG patrol vessels). Regarding the 2nd boat, I remember reading that it developed some problems and returned back to Pak. So why would CG or even IN pursue it and end up actually breaking international norms?

Parallels can be drawn with Army and BSF like how they manage the counter insurgency in J&K. Army is the overall in charge but it does not mean BSF, CRPF or JK Police do not engage threats on their own when warranted.


You are only inferring that CG was the fastest possible. So, it is only a guess.

So, you are trying to say that that a terror boat is a fly? and IN is a hammer. I do not agree with you based on what we have been told since 2010.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby K Mehta » 09 Jan 2015 18:20

Chacko you and other media outlets are behaving as if the government is misleading the public. I don't know why you (and others) are doing this. Unless you have some conclusive source which says otherwise I am going to believe the Indian government.
1 Even if it was a smuggling boat, the intelligence input and the haggling for more money indicate that some thing more than "usual cargo" was being carried.
2 There is intelligence that paki agencies/terrorist want to attack naval ships, so let the forces figure out the way they want to deal with this.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby RamSuresh » 09 Jan 2015 18:31

As a civilian i am happier with a sunk Paki boat that was upto some mischief. If it was a suspicious Pak boat, it doesnt matter if it was carrying diesel, drugs, whiskey, guns, terrorists or their 72. I am happy that an Indian vessel put an end to its mischief. Navy or CG it doesnt matter, for all i care it could even have been Mallaya's pleasure yatcht that sank the boat.

If there is a desire for concrete evidence, you can ask Pak to investigate.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 18:35

KMehta,

Misleading is being attributed to the discrepancy in the release. The release that came to us mentioned Terror in heading and then did not mention terror in the body. That's how it started. We are asking what it is? On Praveen Swamy's charges, you can ask him.

1) haggling of which money?
2) Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel. On contrary, a terro vessel is navy's area of expertise. Naval vessels, personnel can handle a terror boat better than a CG boat. Near Gujarat, due to it's importance, naval vessels are usually there.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Kashi » 09 Jan 2015 18:49

chackojoseph wrote: Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel.


LTTE sea tigers would have begged to differ..if they were still around that is.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2015 18:53

chackojoseph wrote:2) Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cole_bombing
On the morning of Thursday, 12 October 2000, USS Cole, under the command of Commander Kirk Lippold, docked in Aden harbor for a routine fuel stop. Cole completed mooring at 09:30; refueling started at 10:30. Around 11:18 local time (08:18 UTC), a small craft approached the port side of the destroyer, and an explosion occurred afterward, creating a 40-by-60-foot gash in the ship's port side, according to the memorial plate to those who lost their lives. Former CIA intelligence officer Robert Finke said the blast appeared to be caused by explosives molded into a shaped charge against the hull of the boat.[2] Around 400 to 700 pounds (200–300 kg) of explosive were used

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby vsunder » 09 Jan 2015 18:56

Kashi wrote:
chackojoseph wrote: Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel.


LTTE sea tigers would have begged to differ..if they were still around that is.


USS Cole. It takes a lot of strength of character and grace to admit one is wrong. Obviously this Chacko fella does not have it. Why do forumers persist in trying to force the proverbial ass to drink water once taken to the stream? It is not going to happen. Move on and discuss the episode in other ways, this pissing contest will get you nowhere. But next time X and Y come on the forum and say see here on Naval ship wearing green lungi dont through all aside and say "dil mange more".

oops Shiv you draw that damn pistol faster than me.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 18:58

Shiv,

Cole bombing was a surprise. I thought of that. But this is not a surprise element. This was a chase. I do not agree that that boat can harm an IN boat. Normally, they form a cordon. gemini's and ships chopper are sent in advance etc. This has no parallels with cole incident.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Sid » 09 Jan 2015 19:00

chackojoseph wrote:KMehta,

Misleading is being attributed to the discrepancy in the release. The release that came to us mentioned Terror in heading and then did not mention terror in the body. That's how it started. We are asking what it is? On Praveen Swamy's charges, you can ask him.

1) haggling of which money?
2) Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel. On contrary, a terro vessel is navy's area of expertise. Naval vessels, personnel can handle a terror boat better than a CG boat. Near Gujarat, due to it's importance, naval vessels are usually there.


CJ, now you are really stretching your imagination. What do you mean a terror vessel is navy's area of expertise?

How do you know if CG boat responding to incident was not equipped enough to take on this threat? They had a 30MM auto cannon on board which would have blown that boat to bits it it would have been used.

A low flyby by P-8i or appearance of corvette and warning shot by it would have instantly prompted them to commit harakiri. Will you use a bazooka to kill a mosquito?

P.S. Next people will say why IAF Su 30 MKI were not scrambled to shoo off these innocent Pakis!! Its falls under their AOR as well, right?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Sid » 09 Jan 2015 19:02

chackojoseph wrote:Shiv,

Cole bombing was a surprise. I thought of that. But this is not a surprise element. This was a chase. I do not agree that that boat can harm an IN boat. Normally, they form a cordon. gemini's and ships chopper are sent in advance etc. This has no parallels with cole incident.


CJ, my advise would be to stop right now. You are digging a hole from which you cannot climb out of.

Lawyer up man ;)

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby SSridhar » 09 Jan 2015 19:04

OK, what is the insinuation here, chackojoseph? Out with it.

Are you saying that the SOP was not followed? Big deal.

Are you implying something else? If so, say that openly.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby K Mehta » 09 Jan 2015 19:05

1 Haggling for more money (5lakhs instead of 2) which was intercepted by NTRO. Which shows that the cargo was not "usual" The boat guys realized that and wanted more money.
2 See kashi's point above, also that might be the reason why the CG boat kept distance

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 19:11

K Mehta,

1) Just tell me the arms cache one can buy for rs 5 lakhs.
2) I am not replying to arrogant questions or repeats any more.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_20317 » 09 Jan 2015 19:12

vsunder wrote:USS Cole. It takes a lot of strength of character and grace to admit one is wrong. Obviously this Chacko fella does not have it. Why do forumers persist in trying to force the proverbial ass to drink water once taken to the stream? It is not going to happen. Move on and discuss the episode in other ways, this pissing contest will get you nowhere. But next time X and Y come on the forum and say see here on Naval ship wearing green lungi dont through all aside and say "dil mange more".

oops Shiv you draw that damn pistol faster than me.



These small differences of intent, opinion and view act to release steam+make a stand+not kill the opponent in GWOT style. CJ is not the opponent. He is merely a transmitter-receiver-responder. A transponder. Doot ko ignore nahi karte. Na us ko marte hain. He is the conduit through which all the forumers would get heard outside the Burkha threads. Think of CJ as a bad murthy.

Think of these as small havi. Because they do this they will not begin to demand a larger inferno beyond what they can handle reasonably. Flip side is that the larger inferno would be created only by people who love the idea of it :twisted: .

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby pankajs » 09 Jan 2015 19:13

IIRC, the Navy did say SOP was followed ... so why would anyone claim the reverse even now.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2015 19:15

chackojoseph wrote:Shiv,

Cole bombing was a surprise. I thought of that. But this is not a surprise element. This was a chase. I do not agree that that boat can harm an IN boat. Normally, they form a cordon. gemini's and ships chopper are sent in advance etc. This has no parallels with cole incident.


You said:
chackojoseph wrote:2) Could be, but a terror speed boat cannot harm a Naval vessel.


That statement is wrong. A boat can harm a naval vessel given the right circumstances.

I believe that the argument you are making is specious. In 1971 Admiral Arun Prakash in an Air Raid damaged a plane in Pakistan that belonged to Chuck Yeager. No one argues and asks why an Air Force pilot should not have done that. Air Force pilots are definitely better for Air Raids. Why a Navy pilot?

You will agree that my argument is stupid. But the fact is so is yours. You really need to back down with grace.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shiv » 09 Jan 2015 19:20

Duties and functions of the Indian Coast Guard
http://www.indiancoastguard.nic.in/Indi ... apter3.htm
14.(1) It shall be the duty of the Coast Guard to protect by such measures, as it thinks fit, the maritime and other national interests of India in the maritime zones of India.

(2) Without prejudice to the generality of the provisions of sub-section (1), the measures referred to therein may provide for -



(a) ensuring the safety and protection of artificial islands, offshore terminals, installations and other structures and devices in any maritime zone;

(b) providing protection to fishermen including assistance to them at sea while in distress;

(c) taking such measures as are necessary to preserve and protect the maritime environment and to prevent and control marine pollution;

(d) assisting the customs and other authorities in anti-smuggling operations;

(e) enforcing the provisions of such enactments as are for the time being in force in the maritime zones; and

(f) such other matters, including measures for the safety of life and property at sea and collection of scientific data, as may be prescribed.

(3) The Coast Guard shall perform its functions under this section in accordance with, and subject to such rules as may be prescribed and such rules may, in particular, make provisions for ensuring that the Coast Guard functions in close liaison with Union agencies, institutions and authorities so as to avoid duplication of effort.



The law is clear. The Coast Guard and Navy have done nothing wrong.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 19:21

Shiv, that is your opinion. Even for VBSS, they do not go so close. The do send a recce with helio, followed by geminis at a safe distance. if the boat moves, they fire in front of it. I do not agree with you at all. Cole is absolutely different case.

I find no relevance of Adm Prakash here.

And who is saying CG did wrong?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby pankajs » 09 Jan 2015 19:23

The Navy did say SOP was followed.

If Navy has the overall responsibility for coastal defense and says SOP was followed then the following flow from it

1. SOP was followed
2. Coast guard being on this mission was the correct decision.
3. Dornier on patrol was the correct decision.
4. Coast guard's followed ALL protocol while on this mission.

So either our so called *defense* analyst *claim* for themselves greater expertise than the Navy on these matters or are calling the Navy liars.

To me either of the above is very troubling to say the least.
Last edited by pankajs on 09 Jan 2015 19:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2015 19:25

RamSuresh wrote:As a civilian i am happier with a sunk Paki boat that was upto some mischief. If it was a suspicious Pak boat, it doesnt matter if it was carrying diesel, drugs, whiskey, guns, terrorists or their 72. I am happy that an Indian vessel put an end to its mischief. Navy or CG it doesnt matter, for all i care it could even have been Mallaya's pleasure yatcht that sank the boat.

If there is a desire for concrete evidence, you can ask Pak to investigate.



Welcome. Very good second Post!!!!!

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 19:27

There is an instance that IN ship was fired at. see what happens if its a chase or such. I do not agree with you even a bit on this Shiv. cole is very bad example.

Indian navy destroys pirate ship after coming under fire

"The INS Tabar closed in on the mother vessel and asked her to stop for investigation," an Indian navy spokesman said today. "But on repeated calls, the vessel's threatening response was that she would blow up the naval warship if it approached."

After a heavy exchange of fire the mothership was destroyed. Two speedboats escaped.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Comer » 09 Jan 2015 19:28

SSridhar wrote:OK, what is the insinuation here, chackojoseph? Out with it.

Are you saying that the SOP was not followed? Big deal.

Are you implying something else? If so, say that openly.

+1.
If the idea is to create a stench around the incident without saying anything concrete to back up the assertion, then the song and dance has gone far enough.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby ramana » 09 Jan 2015 19:31

Chacko, One eveloved consensus on the Forum is that services are not second guessed about operational actions. many stalwarts have bid adieu for that during Kargil days.

At the bottom-line you are questioning the Coast Guard's action which is an operational action.

If you persist I will have to ban you.


ramana

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(I never post this as I don't flaunt this. Only to remind you I am posting in the Admin mode.)

chackojoseph
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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 09 Jan 2015 19:33

You can ban me Rammana. I have no objection.

pankajs
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12533
Joined: 13 Aug 2009 20:56

Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby pankajs » 09 Jan 2015 19:34

Just to refresh memory
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/451 ... error.html
Navy says was in 'loop' in suspect terror boat operation
In a "clarification" issued Tuesday, the navy said all standard operating procedures were followed.

...
"Indian Navy as the nodal agency for the overall maritime security of the nation was kept in the information loop throughout," it said.

So who is *lying* about SOP's not being followed and spreading misinformation about the operation?


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