Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby dnivas » 10 Jan 2015 03:57

chackojoseph wrote:Well, I will tell you my perspective, a repeat. My disbelief was because navy is over all incharge and if it was a terror boat, then why navy did not get involved. At that time Naval involvement was not known. If there were 2 terror boats why CG sent just 1 craft?

Since there was a debate if it was a terror boat, why the existing SOP did not work? So, if it was just CG acting then the threat level should be lower, probably smugglers. But all that was only guessing.

I am just limited that. There is no berating of CG action etc. At the time I said that something did happen. I was only hoping that there was some evidence. Thats how it started.

My current point is that the PR was badly handled. Some in forum are claiming that defence minister clarified that it was terror boat. I reminded that defence minister said circumstantial evidence and he said that he will produce evidence later on.

I hope that is clear.


BG aka Chacko,

let me tell you my perspective. One day a couple of jihadists come to your home and have your neck and your loved ones neck under the blade.

An army guy is walking down the street, he sees the jihadists and he comes in and gets the drop on the jihadists .

Right at this very second before they drop their knives, you blurt out. hey you stupid army guy , you have no business coming in and saving me. Get out of here. I am going to wait until the police arrives as they are supposed to have jurisdiction and they know the jihadists are here.

This is the crux of your stupid argument that has been festering in this thread for many many pages. Do you have a feeling this scenario feels far fetched , that's how most of the forum members feel. As Ssridhar eloquently put who cares who killed that Paki . A dead paki is a good paki.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shyams » 10 Jan 2015 04:05

Jhujar wrote:
matrimc wrote:A month after 26/11, I was at a party (indic) and one worthy who has a PeeChaddi and director level DIE was wondering out loud whether the GoI/Security people had a court order or not before tapping the mobile phones of terrorists and recording the conversations between terrorists and their handlers. I surprised myself by holding back from landing a couple of good solid ones on it's face right then there.The only reason those cowards landed on the beach in dakshina mumbai was to cause mayhem. This person was not even wrong. Same with PS and CJ and other journalists of their ilk.


This tops one DIE who once argued the benefits of Islamic rule over india. The major pluses being the food and sweet recipes. I did not know then to whether to pull my hairs or pull the gun or pull his guts out. These species are really unreal and alien to Earth. Imagine if these terrorist eliminate high profile political leader and the riots afterward. Most of idiots crying over this have the history of being antagonistic to Desh and Deshwasis.


These so called "libs" should see firsthand what happens to "non-believers" in the middle east. All the more important to update our textbooks which seems to only highlight only the good part of Mughal rule.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shyams » 10 Jan 2015 04:11

chackojoseph wrote:Shiv,

Cole bombing was a surprise. I thought of that. But this is not a surprise element. This was a chase. I do not agree that that boat can harm an IN boat. Normally, they form a cordon. gemini's and ships chopper are sent in advance etc. This has no parallels with cole incident.


A boat laden with explosives and people with suicidal thoughts are good reasons to keep safe distance from them, which is what the CG did. Choppers or UAV's cant do much when they choose to ram against one of our expensive ships and damage it or worse result in personnel loss.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shyams » 10 Jan 2015 04:31

chackojoseph wrote:Well, I will tell you my perspective, a repeat. My disbelief was because navy is over all incharge and if it was a terror boat, then why navy did not get involved. At that time Naval involvement was not known. If there were 2 terror boats why CG sent just 1 craft?

Since there was a debate if it was a terror boat, why the existing SOP did not work? So, if it was just CG acting then the threat level should be lower, probably smugglers. But all that was only guessing.

I am just limited that. There is no berating of CG action etc. At the time I said that something did happen. I was only hoping that there was some evidence. Thats how it started.

My current point is that the PR was badly handled. Some in forum are claiming that defence minister clarified that it was terror boat. I reminded that defence minister said circumstantial evidence and he said that he will produce evidence later on.

I hope that is clear.


So, if I am to summarize your views:

1) You are having concerns that the SOP was not followed.
2) You are having concerns that the PR was not handled properly.
3) You have concerns that CG did not send enough boats.

So with the above main points, I think we should agree that you should stop calling the boat a "smuggling boat" or things along those lines that gives joy to Pak handlers of this boat.

For #1, is there any public record that GoI has provided you with which describes the SOP and which you can use to build your claims? If not, then this is not something which should be discussed (or used to blame GoI) in a public forum. If you are a responsible, patriotic citizen, you should talk to the authorities and help them fix it instead of dishing it out in public.

Also, are you positive that there is no change to such an SOP without you ever knowing?

Are you sure you have not been provided with a fake SOP just to keep you happy without harming national interest?

#2 (regarding bad PR) may or may not a valid point, but your statements appear to be using this as a reason to hang the govt.

#3 (regarding CG boats) Whether CG sends one boat or a 100 boats is entirely the prerogative of the defense professionals whom we have entrusted the job with. The appropriate chain of command will deal with any lapses if any and we trust them to do so. So, you need to understand this and respect the boundaries instead of questioning the operational decisions when we are not in thick and thin of such decision making environment.

chackojoseph wrote:Since there was a debate if it was a terror boat, why the existing SOP did not work? So, if it was just CG acting then the threat level should be lower, probably smugglers. But all that was only guessing.


Do you think such debates should be dished out as "news"? Do you think as a journalist you should spread speculation or worse other journalist's speculation/allegation without evidence?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby krishna_krishna » 10 Jan 2015 04:44

Rudradev wrote:Actually the sustained high-pitch takleef of the Congress and their media proxies on this issue is the most interesting aspect of all.

It is almost as if the Congress has taken it as a personal affront, very much to heart, that this Pakistani terror boat attack was foiled. Their sensibilities seem to have been injured beyond even the normal bounds of WKK syndrome or pseudo-secularitis. It is as if something they dearly hoped, even expected, to happen was thwarted... and a subsequent opportunity of great magnitude was thus snatched away from them.

Let us consider the Congress' long, cosy relationship with domestic and Pakistani proponents of the Saffron Terrorism myth. For ten years, the Congress government at the highest levels did everything it could to maintain public focus on this fictional entity, the Hindu Terrorist movement.

It was no coincidence that, after Zaid Hamid alleged that "red threads" on the wrists of the 26/11 attackers established their Hindu provenance, Digvijay Singh released a book by an Indian Islamic-terror apologist reiterating exactly the same theory. It was no accident that Chidambaram continued to talk of Hindu Terrorism, and to cite the Samjhauta Express attack as evidence of its existence, even after the UN had named Arif Qasmani of the LeT as the individual responsible. One wonders if it was even happenstance that Hemant Karkare, the ATS police officer being pressurized by Digvijay Singh to fabricate a case of "Hindu Terrorism" against Colonel Srikant Purohit, expressed his reluctance in a phone call to the Congress high command on the afternoon of 26/11 and then met a violent end that very night.

So let us say the Coast Guard had NOT managed to stop the terror boat on 31/12. That it had reached its destination and its occupants had successfully carried out their attack. Would they have worn red wrist-threads, perhaps carried pictures of Hindu deities in their pockets to be pulled from their corpses? If they had, wouldn't that have been a great story for Karan Thapar and Praveen Swami to write about... the renewed influx of Hindu terror in the Modi age?

Even if the attackers hadn't worn red threads, what would the very fact of a successful repeat of 26/11 have done to public confidence in the GOI? Could it have turned the tables on a hitherto unstoppable Modi wave, weeks before the Delhi and Bihar elections? Wouldn't there have been ample grounds for some Congress proxies to suddenly develop concern for "national security", and to castigate Ajit Doval for having failed to stop a massive terrorist attack? For the WKK crowd to renew their call for "uninterrupted and uninterruptible dialogue" because the attack clearly revealed that the GOI's policy of massive retaliation to border firing had failed?

All of this didn't happen because the terror boat was intercepted and blew itself up. A lot of people thus felt "cheated" out of a lot of things... the Congress, the Islamist apologists, the pseudo-secular mouthpieces in Indian media, the "peace at all costs" lobby of WKKs, and of course, last but not least, Pakistan itself.


But in order to feel "cheated", one has to first expect a reward that is subsequently denied. No? Otherwise why feel cheated? Why the sense of immense outrage and deprivation over the self-immolation of a few Paki smugglers, even if they were only "smugglers" as is being claimed? Why such wild-eyed, hyperventilating, braying taqleef?


+1 Rudradevji , direct to the point as always

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Prem » 10 Jan 2015 05:33

‘Terror boat’ owner Imam Bheel main operative of ISI in Balochistan, Gulf waters
http://www.thenewsminute.com/worlds/992
nbeknownst to the rest of the world, the“terror boat” incident in the waters of the Arabian Sea appears to have left at least one provincial government in southwestern Pakistan quite nervous.
The reason is the boat reportedly belonged to fugitive drug kingpin and suspected operative of the Inter Services Intelligence Imam Bheel, who is suspected to be the chief financier of the ruling National Party. “It was indeed loaded with the second line of merchandise dealt by him,” a senior official in Quetta, who works for an international agency said Tuesday from Quetta, capital of Balochistan, explaining that by the second line of merchandise he meant “scotch whiskey.” Bheel is a multibillionaire heroin smuggler, who was declared drug kingpin by president Obama in July 2009. Baloch nationalists accuse Bheel of working closely with the Inter Services Intelligence.
The Indian government official in media reports said the four people on the boat blew the vessel in mid-sea, 350 kms southwest of Porbandar, as Indian security forces closed on the boat. However, the Quetta official said that that the cause of the explosion appears firing either by the panicked officials or smugglers appear to have exploded the vessel. “Try firing a shot on 800 bottles of scotch. Fireworks!!,” he said,A report in the Indian Express first reported the vessel belonged to Imam Bheel, aka Mohammed Hayat aka Mir Yaqub Bizenjo, who was declared a drug kingpin by who was inducted in the National Party, the ruling party in Balochistan coalition government the
following year.Balochistan has a long 700-km coastline and Imam Bheel is known as the master of the Arabian Gulf waters. “The whole coastal area from Jiwani to Gwadar that includes the small towns of Pishukan, Pasni, Kalmat, Ormara is under the control of Imam Bheel,” a local Baloch journalist who is well aware of the goings on the waters across the Balochistan coast told this correspondent Monday, on condition he was not named. “Even in the Mumbai attacks of 26/11, Imam Bheel appears to have played a role in providinglogistical support,” the Baloch source said.

The report said President Barack Obama, ranks Bheel alongside drug lords from Venezuela, Colombia and Mexico. Another investigative report in Pakistan’s The News International said, Bheel “is considered more influential than any political party and mightier than any intelligence agency.” Imam Bheel had allegedly shot dead a senior official of Gwadar in front of his bungalow in Karachi three years ago but never got arrested because of his I.S.I. links.Bheel works closely with the president of the National Party, Senator Mir Hasil Bizenjo, who visited India to a peace conference that was also attended by Mani Shankar Aiyer some years back. Bizenjo and Aiyer are quite close. The National Party, which is basically Balochistan based, holds such clout in the Pakistani deep establishment that though Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif’s Pakistan Muslim League has more elected members in the Balochistan provincial or state assembly, the chief ministership of Balochistan province was given to Abdul Malik Baloch, former president the National Party.Baloch insurgents in different armed groups have long suspected Bheel of being a key operative of the I.S.I. in Balochistan. Dr. Allah Nazar Baloch, chief of the Baloch Liberation Front, recently announced a huge catch of arms belonging to Imam Bheel was seized by B.L.F. guerrillas in Kech, home district of the Balochistan chief minister. “I.S.I. is trafficking drugs through Imam Bheel, CC member NP, to Europe & world worth 5b$ annually for military and logistic support to Jihadis,”Dr Baloch said in a tweet. In summer 2009, just a month before Obama declared Bheel a kingpin, the B.L.F. dispatched a parcel bomb that left members of Bheel's family injured in Karachi.Two and half years ago the B.L.F. also killed his right hand man Haji Lal Bakhsh aka Lalo, who is said to have been working closely with the I.S.I. station chief in Turbat named Colonel Mohammed Shakoor.Meanwhile, the civil and political society were calling the “boat terror” a concocted story of the Indian government. Mohammed Ali Shah, chairman of the PFF disputed both the Indian Express report and the Indian government narration. Shah said the PFF used its network but have not been able to confirm the antecedents of the four sailors that were mentioned in the story. "If the four were killed where are the bodies he asked? If it was indeed an act of sabotage, why has there been no official protest from the Indian side."

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chetak » 10 Jan 2015 06:16

Mahendra wrote:Chacko sir

Please don't leave, we will miss your real time inputs about cattle smuggling in the high seas, we will also miss your breaking neuj from a pakistani point of view. Please take this hankie and wipe the egg off your face before you leave.


please make sure that you get your hankie back from folks of the the mani shankar mold.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Jan 2015 06:22

Guys,
Chacko bhai is not stupid, hence there is no point in spoon feeding him. He has an agenda (though he is quite ineffective in articulating his POV, bad grammar and all) which is same as other traitors such as Praveen Swami. Yes, they are traitors by undermining our rakshaks and the GoI. If he has any shame (he has no self respect), he will stop posting on BRF hence forth. If he still continues to post, it's our duty to shame him till he stops.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Jan 2015 06:22

I am sorry that I have to say this, but ...

"cole bombings were a surprise". What kind of muddled thoughts will lead to such daftness? If you wait till the enemy gets very close and bayonets you in the gut, surprise is not what you would have on your mind - you would say "oh my gawd - I should have been more carefool about Pakistani soldiers who come bearing gifts (of ch___s and o___m)".
Last edited by Vayutuvan on 10 Jan 2015 06:29, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Vayutuvan » 10 Jan 2015 06:27

sunilUpa: I hope she keeps posting. But then there is not much fun in taking down a useless fo.. err ... strawman. Still strawmen serve their purpose (sometimes).

I thought he was well respected till the recent turn around. What is the deal, CJ saar? Why go out in a blaze in the service of your masters? This - your behaviour - doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Kashi » 10 Jan 2015 07:06

chackojoseph wrote:Cole bombing was a surprise. I thought of that. But this is not a surprise element. This was a chase. I do not agree that that boat can harm an IN boat. Normally, they form a cordon. gemini's and ships chopper are sent in advance etc. This has no parallels with cole incident.


Cole may have been one off, but the LTTE sea tigers regularly sank SL Navy boats in suicide attacks with fast moving craft, even when their navy was fully aware of the threat and somewhat prepared for it.

I cannot recall Indian vessels may not have directly faced such a threat (however, IN and CG were actively involved in stymieing sea tiger operations so there must have been some degree of preparedness) but there was this incident where the Paki PNS Babur (I think) brushed against INS Godavari and their "sailors" were screaming Allahu Akbar- so THERE WAS A precedent for the IN and CG ships to be wary of Pakis and their Pakiness.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby dnivas » 10 Jan 2015 07:06

matrimc wrote:sunilUpa: I hope she keeps posting. But then there is not much fun in taking down a useless fo.. err ... strawman. Still strawmen serve their purpose (sometimes).

I thought he was well respected till the recent turn around. What is the deal, CJ saar? Why go out in a blaze in the service of your masters? This - your behaviour - doesn't make any sense.


The problem is his hate of the' non secular govt'. Instead of dealing with facts he is bringing in his emotions .

Chacko, if you are still reading. NAMO in govt is going to steer India towards building more stuff inhouse and that means more work for you, since you are on the ground in India. so please decide food on the table or ideology. You choose.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Jan 2015 07:19

It's time we call spade a spade...Chaco and his brethren are not misinformed or idiots...they are traitors. They will undermine India for their pet peeves.

Cole is one off...9/11 is one off, 26/11 is one off, Mumbai blasts are one off, Paris is one off..

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 07:24

Shayms,

You have summerised that perfectly. There are some points that in your subsequent questions which I want to reply. This is also for the folks who want to partially understand how we are being defended in the seas and what the ships do.

Pre 91/11, there is a paradigm shift on our coastal defence and I will confine mainly to Gujarat. Initially, CG and was the main player in coastal defence. While BSF was restricted to a particular part of Gujarat which joins the land border, CG normally took care of upto 200 nautical miles. It is not in the strictest dense as beyond 100 nm, navy too had a play as seen in MV Alandora Rainbow case and other cases. Post 9/11, navy is responsible from Coast to rest of the sea and also liaison with the administration in matters of the seaward defence. CG and Coastal Police (even the state admin, DG Shipping etc) coordinate with Navy as hey have the information systems like coastal radar chain etc. The CG assets are also being rapidly built up to relieve Navy from the role in future.

Especially in seas near Gujarat, because of proximity with paki land, there is a high threat of illegal activities. it also has the highest potential to cause a threat to security of India. As mentioned, BSF is looking over some areas which adjoins the land border. It includes marshy area etc. CG is more into open waters generally. Navy, since it's ships are bigger in all terms operate well into the sea and the particular area where we have seen in the map previously posted is well within its area. I am not getting into if the ships are permanently patrolled there by navy (shyams one of your question actually will make me explain that and hence avoiding).

There are numerous exercises being conducted testing the inter services coordination. Gujarat Specific, it is called Defence of Gujarat Ex (Neptune in A&N, Sagar kavach in West and sagar something (can't remember off hand) in Southern area). You can read about in open sources.

The suggestions here (except 1 gent who i felt genuinely asked it) that Navy may not be sent to intercept a terror small boat, because there is small boat threat to IN, is downright hilarious. Small boats have been a regular threat. Cole example is an exception or among exceptions. By their suggestion if navy should not meet the small boat , then if paki navy comes, they should be pulled over land and hidden? By default, naval ships are tasked to take on such threats. Navy operates warships for that not merchant ships. When there is a threat, the navy tightens it's rules on small or big boat approach. There is nothing called second guessing naval action in this area as they all use standard procedures.

Highest among the threat between smuggler and terror threat is terror threat. Irrespective of CG's pre 9/11 role, Navy is the main constituent in taking out this threat.

If it is a terror boat (as govt is yet to conclusively tell us), then the SOP was not followed as it is generally known, there is a problem and government is answerable.

One cannot stop asking question. Pakis, by default will meddle in everything.

Navy's last sentence in the release "Indian Navy (IN) as the nodal agency for the overall maritime security of the nation was kept in the information loop throughout," is a dead give away that this was not a boat that had the potential to threaten the security of India. Navy is right that it was informed but did not act, but was in coordination.

As mentioned this is for the folks who want to know what happens and since they are being misled to win an argument.

Kashi,

I have posted the INS Tabar incident.
Last edited by chackojoseph on 10 Jan 2015 07:41, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Jan 2015 07:25

This guy has no shame or self respect. He is such a low life that i have more respect for a paki...aaakthoo

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Surya » 10 Jan 2015 07:33

One cannot stop asking question.


except when the former useless DM and Govt was there.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby sunilUpa » 10 Jan 2015 07:36

Surya wrote:
One cannot stop asking question.


except when the former useless DM and Govt was there.

+1

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby SSridhar » 10 Jan 2015 08:15

I am convinced that violation of SOP or mishandling PR are not the reasons for the unnecessary furore. It is laughable when somebody cites these reasons, for we are not fools. These are all afterthoughts.

SOP violation, if any, will be handled in the normal course within the concerned organizations in reviews etc and appropriate actions will be taken. I am sure every armed action has had some such issue and they were addressed or improved upon subsequently. PR has always been a problem and this sudden concern for PR is like a wolf crying for a goat getting wet in the rains.

The motivation needs to be understood. From the beginning, it has been an unabashed attempt to paint this operation as a 'lethal use of force' against either an innocent boat or at the most a small-time smuggling outfit. What was left unsaid but needed little imagination to understand was that the Modi-Doval-Rajnath combination is engaged in bravado, disproportionate response etc all leading to a grave situation with Pakistan.

I will not accuse *all* those who peddled the unedifying line as traitors but I am convinced that they are influenced by the US which does not like the robust response, which has not only been openly announced by the Modi government but which is also following through with it. Most probably, the US privately advised India to tone down which was rejected or went unheeded. So, it is making attempts through other means to discredit the government and build-up opposition to its much-more-tit-for-tat policy which is unheard of in 67 years India's meek existence (except twice, may be).

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Prem » 10 Jan 2015 08:25

SSridhar wrote:I What was left unsaid but needed little imagination to understand was that the Modi-Doval-Rajnath combination is engaged in bravado, disproportionate response etc all leading to a grave situation with Pakistan. I will not accuse *all* those who peddled the unedifying line as traitors but I am convinced that they are influenced by the US which does not like the robust response, which has not only been openly announced by the Modi government but which is also following through with it. Most probably, the US privately advised India to tone down which was rejected or went unheeded. So, it is making attempts through other means to discredit the government and build-up opposition to its much-more-tit-for-tat policy which is unheard of in 67 years India's meek existence (except twice, may be).

Lest keep in mind that this alleged unnecessary Trindu-bravado has the potential to bring strategic shift in whole Asia.The economic, military and "cultural" impact is well calculated by the real adversaries in and out of India.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:25

OK Chacko Joseph - so you send a large Naval destroyer to warn the Jihadists that we are coming or send a smaller coast guard boat as a part of your strategy ? Also initial investigations were on.- remember those people are not dunces.The Navy may have very much been in the loop as stated but should everything operational be disclosed to you ? Also give me one cogent argument as to why any person who has love for India would run away when the coast guard asked them to stop and burn themselves down ? How many people with love for India would be willing to do that ? At the end of the day you are quibbling over nonsensical points. Give an explanation for the two questions and then proceed.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2015 08:29

chackojoseph wrote:
Navy's last sentence in the release "Indian Navy (IN) as the nodal agency for the overall maritime security of the nation was kept in the information loop throughout," is a dead give away that this was not a boat that had the potential to threaten the security of India. Navy is right that it was informed but did not act, but was in coordination.

Tell me this Chacko. In your opinion did the boat blow itself up or did the Coast Guard sink it? Your opinion.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 08:36

shiv wrote:Tell me this Chacko. In your opinion did the boat blow itself up or did the Coast Guard sink it? Your opinion.


I haven't stated any opinion on this before and will not since I have no clue on it. As per CG they lit a fire internally, which led to explosion and furious burning of the boat. Two other views that the boat was blown and the opposite view that there was excessive force used, are not the first hand reports. That's all I know about it. I am sticking with CG release in this case.

prasannasimha,

When did I say they send a larger naval boat?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:39

I like Joseph Chacko- he conveniently says "ban me" and then says he doesn't want to go away :) Trying to go in a blaze as a martyr Kouachi brother style for press freedom Uh ? You do know how "impressive" it is.Actually you should be here as your statements lower your credibility and that is in a way a good thing. There is atechnical term for this called as "Amurelexia"- Inability to see the writing on the wall. Mene, Mene, Teqel, Upharsin

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Prem » 10 Jan 2015 08:40

Chacko Ji, whats your beef with the outcome of this incident and GOI's handling of Water-Born Paki?.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:41

chackojoseph wrote:
shiv wrote:Tell me this Chacko. In your opinion did the boat blow itself up or did the Coast Guard sink it? Your opinion.


I haven't stated any opinion on this before and will not since I have no clue on it. As per CG they lit a fire internally, which led to explosion and furious burning of the boat. Two other views that the boat was blown and the opposite view that there was excessive force used, are not the first hand reports. That's all I know about it. I am sticking with CG release in this case.

prasannasimha,

When did I say they send a larger naval boat?


So what should they have done ? You said the Navy did not respond (adequately) and that is the proof that it was a loving persons boat.Go back and see what you have written.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 08:47

prasannasimha wrote:So what should they have done ? You said the Navy did not respond (adequately) and that is the proof that it was a loving persons boat.Go back and see what you have written.


I have stated it above. You go and read.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Avarachan » 10 Jan 2015 08:49

In my opinion, there's a reason for all this takleef regarding Standard Operating Procedure (SOP). India's opponents have studied Indian SOP's for various contingencies, and have gamed out their responses. However, Narendra Modi's government is aware of this issue, and was flexible and creative in utilizing indigenous assets to deal with the threat. That drives India's opponents crazy with rage and frustration.

It is good to have SOP's. But they are only means to the end of providing security for India. Sometimes, it is necessary to follow Unconventional Operating Procedures. (I'm not claiming that necessarily happened; I think that's a possibility, though. In any event, that's not the critical issue.) To be overly bureaucratic is to be predictable and therefore vulnerable.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby Avarachan » 10 Jan 2015 08:50

rgsrini wrote:To whomsoever it may concern, the seething anger is not because "journalists" are questioning the government actions/statements. That is one of the main benefit of free press. However, the way the "journalists" are "framing" this to favor only one side of the argument is what gets people's goat. There is also no recognition of mistake on their (media's) part (For e.g. "Navy not involved"). That is the definition of media bias. A real journalist will try to present both or all sides of the story. That is absent here.

The attack started too quickly, and without any attempt to inquiry. It was loud, demeaning and accusatory from the beginning, rather than being investigative, probing and/or fair. Public, fortunately, has their eyes wide open due to the proliferation of WWW and SM. Now WWW and SM are acting as a watchdog on the media, whose credibility is at an all time low in India (IMO).


+1

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:52

See his FB page and then you will realize UPA could do no wrong but current government can do no right.

https://www.facebook.com/frontierindia

In full and fair disclosure Chacko Joseph can you disclose how much funding did you get from UPA, its allies and friends for your Journalistic endeavors. It is now SOP in scientific circles to disclose this to remove a portion of bias.If we want an honest discussion can we have that data ?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 08:53

My FB page has no bearing on this discussion as it is not me, but it is some other guys who are bringing in politics.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:54

chackojoseph wrote:
prasannasimha wrote:So what should they have done ? You said the Navy did not respond (adequately) and that is the proof that it was a loving persons boat.Go back and see what you have written.


I have stated it above. You go and read.


Joesph chacko - you do realize that you have now scored a self goal here.
Last edited by member_28108 on 10 Jan 2015 09:30, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 08:56

chackojoseph wrote:My FB page has no bearing on this discussion as it is not me, but it is some other guys who are bringing in politics.


It does have - it reflects your bias and why are you so afraid if others are brought to attention to your public facebook profile ?

Also how convenient bring attention to your FB page but not answer the second part of the question.


In full and fair disclosure Chacko Joseph can you disclose how much funding did you get from UPA, its allies and friends for your Journalistic endeavors. It is now SOP in scientific circles to disclose this to remove a portion of bias.If we want an honest discussion can we have that data ?


if you are honest you will give it. Instead you have conveniently sidestepped it.
Last edited by member_28108 on 10 Jan 2015 09:03, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 09:00

prasannasimha wrote:
chackojoseph wrote:My FB page has no bearing on this discussion as it is not me, but it is some other guys who are bringing in politics.


It does have - it reflects your bias and why are you so afraid if others are brought to attention to your public facebook profile ?

Also how convenient bring attention to your FV page but not answer the second part of the question.


My profile is public. It is not hidden. It has contempt for all parties except one whom I think has changed the game of politics. I feel that they are good for Indian politics and I am not a member of the party.

Beyond that there is no other opinion there. So don't try to invent non existent.

I have strictly off politics in military thread as mentioned time and again.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 09:06

My profile is public. It is not hidden. It has contempt for all parties except one whom I think has changed the game of politics. I feel that they are good for Indian politics and I am not a member of the party.

Beyond that there is no other opinion there. So don't try to invent non existent.

I have strictly off politics in military thread as mentioned time and again

Pray tell me where I am inventing anything nonexistent.

Please mention the name of that party that you say has changed the game of politics,

Again you are side stepping full disclosure that I asked you,.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby member_28108 » 10 Jan 2015 09:10

I repeat - can you or can you not give truthful full disclosure of your funding (I am not asking political party membership so do not use that as an excuse to side step the issue) as it is an SOP for scientific debate. You have sidestepped it three times. I will not ask again and if you do not disclose it (and remember it is verifiable) if you do not do it-then so be it and so will the credibility of your discussions.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby K Mehta » 10 Jan 2015 10:49

As intelligence agencies have been involved, I don't think everything is going to be made public.
Regarding disproportionate response, I think the government is right. Even if the response was disproportionate how different was it from the US ship shooting Indians in Dubai. As long as the boat was an unpermitted intruder with a motive against national interest, I think the forces are in the right.
There is a kind of hinting at some things not being right that the media is doing, I find it ridiculous that no such thing was done after the non response to 26/11.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby deejay » 10 Jan 2015 11:28

Here we wanted to rejoice and enjoy for a moment a strong military action by India. But some of us will deny the rest even that.

Some folks will deny us our celebrations in reaching Mars because we could spent that money in removing poverty (The smart man that NaMo is countered everything by comparing with the cost of the movie Gravity).

Some folks will deny us the right to strong border response in Kashmir by saying the border villagers suffer while the villagers themselves want us to respond strong and end it forever.

Some folks will deny us the right to prevent a 26/11 repeat because of bad PR of Security Agencies.Some say follow SOP, but we do not know the terrorist's SOP - hence we do what is needed to keep Indians safe.

Lets us enjoy the moment - a single glum poster needs to be ignored.

Now, there was something interesting about that Paki drug smuggler Senator who is a friend of Mani Shanker Aiyer. Anyone has more juicy details?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby UlanBatori » 10 Jan 2015 11:53

The PeeAref cultural tradition to deal with such stresses is:
a) Beerless fact collection. See recent example re: 'Anmolization' which single-mindedly burst the bubble of the pompous U S State Department and US Embassy and exposed their disgusting hollowness or worse. Got them laughed off the Internet. Many such in the past. Tradition is alive and well, and greatly facilitated by Social Media.
b) Threads thrash out the issues objectively and with due space allowed for dissenters (slightly in danger now, as it always was).
c) Someone would systematically go through all hajaar pages of these threads and prepare a cogent article, and publish it - used to be on PeeAref Man-Eater and then 'Strategic Review' but now sooo easy on Social Media.

This aspect is missing from the present tamasha. Instead of sitting around feeling the ulcer grow as you exercise ur fingers, well.. take the time to write articles, and let Social Media do the rest. Yes, the oiseules will read them, and let THEM get the ulcers, remembering that thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, are laughing at their proven idiocy.

To paraphrase from the movie 'Patton':
No oiseule won a media war by dying of ulcers for his pov. He won it by making the OTHER oiseule develop ulcers for HIS pov.


We don't believe in going after oiseule papparazzi with AKs or IED-Mubaraks or stones or gas cylinders. Ulcers are sooo much more effective and elegant. Get the pakis/ opposition laughed off the Internet.

For a stellar example, one of several, on extremely difficult subjects, see this piece - and several others like it in the same Monitor series. PeeAref was probably alone in coming out with such deep, accurate and pointed analyses in the open literature. In those days writers were rather circumspect about criticizing so-called Experts. Later authors evolved other strategies.. :P The Revelation at least for one author was described bluntly here:

The field of nuclear weapons development and control is inevitably clouded with uncertainty and speculation. All public domain writings on this subject must be assumed colored with the bias and purpose of the authors. Technical discourse in the United States on such subjects is remarkable for its innocent adherence to prevailing political models. For instance, [1] and its list of references ignore the most important influence in the development of the Pakistani nuclear program – the People’s Republic of China [8]. This renders the discussion of the secrecy of locations and independence of the Pakistani nuclear weapons establishment quite meaningless. Given the level of public discourse in this area, the current author presents his hypothesis with little fear of under-shooting the standards of this field.


If you do an honest, systematic piece of work, it stays relevant a long time, even if at least one of named authors there was totally clueless and has never been to the region in question. For example, see this ancient effort. Some PeeAref postors were born since this was written, but I begin to understand current J&K politics and personalities slightly better because of it.For instance, note that Sajjad Lone is now an independent leader in democratic political process - what a dramatic change! In those days ppl were :(( at the govt for not hanging him immediately.

I seem to remember that when the events described there were unfolding, there was LOUD rona-dhona about events in J&K with all sorts of Experts rushing to :(( about Defeat Phor Indian Guvrmand Onlee. There was a whole Thread called "Slaughter of Democracy" which was modified into Laughter of Democracy. 8)

Yet see what has evolved.

Or see what 'we' did when Admiral 'Golf' Nadkarni was barking to get the LCA scrapped.

What will not show in the joyful article is the immense stress of reading garbage, lies, more lies and even more lies being amplified by whole armies of Mediots all over the Indian 'Defence Expert' scene, and feeling so frustrated. But I DO hope that 'Golf' and his buddies suffered a bit, or at least boosted whisky and ROLAIDS sales. 'Golf' sure became very quiet - he used to write a regular column b4 that. :rotfl:

Today, Praveen Swami and his ilk of 'Experts' are crying out for such treatment. But it is neither easy nor swift to do the research and thinking, and replace one's own bile with calm stuff that will raise the bile in the intended places.

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby shiv » 10 Jan 2015 13:12

chackojoseph wrote:
shiv wrote:Tell me this Chacko. In your opinion did the boat blow itself up or did the Coast Guard sink it? Your opinion.


I haven't stated any opinion on this before and will not since I have no clue on it. As per CG they lit a fire internally, which led to explosion and furious burning of the boat. Two other views that the boat was blown and the opposite view that there was excessive force used, are not the first hand reports. That's all I know about it. I am sticking with CG release in this case.


Thanks. Is there, in your view, any reason to believe that the boat would not have been set on fire if the Navy had gone after it?

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Re: Breaking news: Coast guard intercepted terrorist boat

Postby chackojoseph » 10 Jan 2015 13:28

They chased for an hour etc. With more experienced assets, the outcome could have been different.


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