IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

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gnair
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby gnair » 17 Apr 2015 02:38

Mig-27 depletion can be replaced with new HAL-built Darin-3 Jaguars with an Elta front end and either a tried and tested upgraded Adour or the proposed HoneyWell option. The tooling and jigs are still around. Only floor space is a concern, possibly occupied by the Hawk production line. It's an option, only because of this self-induced predicament that the IAF is in. Add possible conformal fuel if possible and maximize hard points for stand-off Nirbay or future Brahmos-(light) strikes rather than pure battle field support. Jaguar training and infrastructure is well established and there is no need to re-learn the curve. A 40 jet production block should not be too hard on the purse for a start and will keep strike formations sharp enough. Older airframe design but adequately compensated with new systems, engines and weapons options should do the job well even in a dense air-defence environment.

Cain Marko
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby Cain Marko » 17 Apr 2015 04:57

shiv wrote:.... Sukhois are good but they are not really stealthy

So for the future the IAF should have, IMO a plane with the range of Su 30, stealth and good hot and high performance and a robust PGM/standoff missile capability. Now is the time to work with industry to realize this.


Last but nowhere near least - operational deployments in faraway places requires good transport, Now we have C-17s and C 130s in addition to other aircraft. But now is the time to work on large transport/passenger aircraft capability within India


The Pakfa/FGFA will be something that will fit the above role....

ramana
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 30 May 2015 02:24

prahaar wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-QfZU3UnE

Manohar Parrikar Interview. I hope this is right thread.









Rishirishi
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby Rishirishi » 30 May 2015 21:36

The sweeds are very capable at making fighters. They have a very lean and cost effective way of working. Here is an experimental Stealth AC they. Would it be an idea to develop an AC together with them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-_BvFadE7w

ramana
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 07 Jun 2015 01:22

Also Mig-27 avionics upgrade gives demonstrated 15 m accuracy dumb bomb (500 kg) drop capability as shown on Live fist blog.

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2010/07/ ... mig-27.htm

How does work out in PGM requirements?

Now figure out damage radius of a 500 Kg dumb bomb?
there are published data for Mk 84 i.e. 2000 lbs or 1000 kg bombs.
Use that with scaling.

----
Also recall the LCA bombing runs pictures of which were posted on the forum a couple of years back. Consensus was dumb bombs.

JohnTitor
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby JohnTitor » 20 Jun 2015 18:53

ramana wrote:
prahaar wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck-QfZU3UnE

Manohar Parrikar Interview. I hope this is right thread.



Reading between the lines - the 36 aircraft is not the end of the deal. There is a second part to it which isn't govt-govt.

My respect for this man has grown 10fold. He puts to shame all previous congi ministers. His answers are very tactical and he doesnt give up anything that might jeopardize processes.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby sankum » 30 Sep 2015 14:25

In the light of present news reports regarding Rafale, LCA and Pak fa and Su30 production ending in 2019 @272nos(14sq) likely IAF 2025 fighter strength.

IAF-2025
--------

Pak fa- 3sq
Rafale-2sq
Su 30-14sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-9sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
---------------
Total-40sq

IAF will be a potent force.

member_29245
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby member_29245 » 14 Nov 2015 11:12

HOw does the switchover from Jag / Mig 29 to AMCA look like ?

also can you project some switchover year wise i mean at 3 years gap in view of news on LCA PAKFA

more Su30 likely and rafales look increasingly unlikely

or maybe the excersice should be done after Dec when there will be clear info available on PAKFA deal ?

Y. Kanan
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby Y. Kanan » 08 Dec 2015 15:37

sankum wrote:In the light of present news reports regarding Rafale, LCA and Pak fa and Su30 production ending in 2019 @272nos(14sq) likely IAF 2025 fighter strength.

IAF-2025
--------

Pak fa- 3sq
Rafale-2sq
Su 30-14sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-9sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
---------------
Total-40sq

IAF will be a potent force.


So many aircraft types. Looks like a cost & maintenance nightmare.

ramana
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 14 Dec 2015 21:12

Looks like fighter planes are being standardized on : New build Su 30MKIS, LCA, Rafale, and PakFA. (14+9+2+3 = 28 squadrons)
Refurbished: Jaguars, Mig 29s, and Mirage 2000 (6+3+3 = 12 squadrons)

i.e. 40 Squadrons combat aircraft.


These give a mix of heavy, medium and light fighter aircraft.

Are all these equipped with in flight refueling probes?
What is the tanker fleet current and planned?

I see there is no plan to get a real bomber plane.
This will be a handicap.

sankum
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby sankum » 14 Dec 2015 21:58

The above estimate was based on NDTV initial report of 9sq of LCA mk1+mk1A which is now corrected to new reports of 20nos LCA mk1 and 100nos LCAmk1A i.e, 6sq by 2025 taking a further one year delay and peak production rate of 16 LCA/year.

S. Jha in his tweet has said that 50-80more Su30mki will be procured after 272nos (14sq) run by 2019 I.e, 2sq to 4sq more of Su 30 can be expected by 2025 and it can be safely assumed that if PAKFA is delayed till 2025 18sq of Su 30mki can be expected. 5+ years production run of Su 30 @15/year.

S Jha has further said that minimum 700+ combat fighter strength will be maintained i.e, 39sq @18fighters per squadron. For Rafale 36nos +36 nos will be procured and can be expected that by 2027 @7-8 Rafales/year 72nos Rafale(4sq) can be expected.

Thus updated expected 2025 IAF strength will be.

IAF-2025
--------

Rafale-3sq
Su 30-18sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-6sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
---------------
Total-39sq ( Around 700 nos combat fighters)

IAF-2020

Rafale-1sq
Su 30-15sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-2sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
Mig 21 Bison-5sq
---------------
Total-35sq ( Around 650 nos combat fighters)

In the meantime if the report of direct purchase of 65 PAKFA (3sq) from Russia is taken the numbers will go up accordingly. PAKFA can be in addition to indigenous run of additional Su 30mki or may replace Su30mki leading to reduced Su30mki sq strength by 3sq nos.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 19 Dec 2015 21:34

Sankum, how many tanker planes and AWACS? Which squadrons operate them?

All will determine offensive capability.

ramana
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 08 Jan 2016 23:32

KaranM and Indranil, What is available for a heavy strike plane? More like a bomber?Tu-22Ms?

Cain Marko
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby Cain Marko » 14 Jan 2016 14:17

Don't think there is anything of the above nature available anywhere other than Russia and the backfire. The closest counterparts were the B1 and the F111 and even those are not exactly similar to Tu-22.

F111 level could possibly be achieved by Su-34 fullback.

member_20067
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby member_20067 » 16 Jan 2016 00:47

What is the status of Jaguar upgrade? Last I heard that Honeywell Procurement is stalled

member_28615
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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby member_28615 » 16 Feb 2016 15:24

Yes, I agree with the most recent post recommending good transport. However, will the number of transport squadrons in the IAF also be reduced?

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby Y. Kanan » 17 Feb 2016 01:26

sankum wrote:The above estimate was based on NDTV initial report of 9sq of LCA mk1+mk1A which is now corrected to new reports of 20nos LCA mk1 and 100nos LCAmk1A i.e, 6sq by 2025 taking a further one year delay and peak production rate of 16 LCA/year.

S. Jha in his tweet has said that 50-80more Su30mki will be procured after 272nos (14sq) run by 2019 I.e, 2sq to 4sq more of Su 30 can be expected by 2025 and it can be safely assumed that if PAKFA is delayed till 2025 18sq of Su 30mki can be expected. 5+ years production run of Su 30 @15/year.

S Jha has further said that minimum 700+ combat fighter strength will be maintained i.e, 39sq @18fighters per squadron. For Rafale 36nos +36 nos will be procured and can be expected that by 2027 @7-8 Rafales/year 72nos Rafale(4sq) can be expected.

Thus updated expected 2025 IAF strength will be.

IAF-2025
--------

Rafale-3sq
Su 30-18sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-6sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
---------------
Total-39sq ( Around 700 nos combat fighters)

IAF-2020

Rafale-1sq
Su 30-15sq
LCA mk1+mk1A-2sq
Mirage 2000upg-3sq
Mig 29upg-3sq
Jaguar upg-6sq
Mig 21 Bison-5sq
---------------
Total-35sq ( Around 650 nos combat fighters)

In the meantime if the report of direct purchase of 65 PAKFA (3sq) from Russia is taken the numbers will go up accordingly. PAKFA can be in addition to indigenous run of additional Su 30mki or may replace Su30mki leading to reduced Su30mki sq strength by 3sq nos.


You may need to revise your #'s. At $300 million apiece, the Rafales will absorb most of the IAF procurement budget for years to come. There won't be much left for the LCA programme or expanding\upgrading the SU-30 fleet.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby sankum » 17 Feb 2016 13:16

Reports put Rafale 36nos @$9b or @250m corresponding to say 2 Su-30mki/4 LCAmk1a along with weapons and support package.

That will cost $2b/year for 16 Su30mki/year+ $1b/year for 16 LCAmk1a+ $1.5b/year for 6 Rafale/year=4.5b/year for 38 fighters /year.

$4.5b/year (Rs 30600Cr/year)of new fighters for IAF is possible.

The number of Rafales will reduce to 2sq instead of 3sq in my figures for 2025.

Report of further 40nos Su30mki order to take the total to 312nos(16sq) ensures production run being extended from 2019 to 2022.

The production run of Su 30mki @16/yr and LCA mk1a@16/yr is fixed and will be budgeted while that of Rafale is a variable according to finance available.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 18 Feb 2016 22:55

x-post...

rohitvats wrote:When discussing numbers, it always helps to know a bit about the air force everyone is so keen to advise!

On a serious note, if one wants to understand the requirement of LCA, please stop going back to the Mig-21 argument. Most of the Mig-21/23/27 are long gone, having been replaced by Su-30MKI. A few remain and of this Mig-21 Bison will remain for another 8-10 years at least.

Here is what the IAF looks like/will look like by 2020: 14 (Su-30MKI) + 3 (Mirage-2000-5) + 3 (Mig-29) + 6 (Jaguar) + 5 (Mig-21 Bison) + 2 (Mig-27UPG) + 1 (LCA Mk1) + 1 (LCA Mk1A) + 2 (MMRCA) = 37 squadrons.

Looking at the above numbers and planned induction of 100 LCA Mk1A, it seems IAF at present is not looking at LCA Mk2 in the ORBAT. If we can produce 20 LCA Mk1A or 1 squadron per annum, we're looking at full complement of LCA Mk1A entering service by 2025.

I was expecting Mig-21 Bison to be replaced by LCA Mk2 but it seems these will be replaced by LCA Mk1A itself. I would discount the 20 LCA Mk1 because these will end up spending most of the time in conversion, training and tactics evaluation. IAF needs 5+2 squadrons to replace Mig-21 Bison and Mig-27 UPG. That is 140 aircraft at least. We've 100 Mk1A and IMO another 40 is given. Mig-27 UPG will most likely be first to be replaced by LCA Mk1A. So, we're looking at 160 minimum number of LCA Mk1A. And I won't be surprised if we've another 20 a/c dedicated for conversion training.

I think we're looking at 160-180 LCA Mk1A being produced over next 10 years.

Bigger question is, how do we reach the 42 squadron number?

Beyond 37 squadrons, IAF need 05 more squadrons. Now, I firmly believe that 7 squadrons of MMRCA will come. Whatever be the aircraft type. And I don't think it will be LCA version.

So, beyond 02 MMRCA already accounted for, I think we'll have 05 more.

That is only way we'll be anywhere close to 42 squadron number by 2025-27. With the following likely break-up:

14 (Su-30MKI) + 3 (Mirage-2000-5) + 3 (Mig-29) + 6 (Jaguar) + 8 (LCA Mk1A) + 1 (LCA Mk1) + 7 (MMRCA) = 42 squadrons
.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 18 Feb 2016 22:59

and...
enaiel wrote:What can 200 Tejas do?

Image

Whats not mentioned above is that it will also be getting the new ARM missile for SEAD roles.

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Re: IAF Re-Equipment Schedule

Postby ramana » 20 Feb 2016 21:34

In IAF, what is the number of pilots and aircrew to a squadron?

Average number of planes is 18.


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