Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33696
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 Oct 2017 08:49

srai wrote:Arjun MBT's rifled gun firing LAHAT
Image

Wasn't this one of the Arjun "improvements" that was sought and implemented later.

I cannot recall details - but I think that during the course of development of the Arjun - which started off with a "good enough" 120 mm gun - the rest of the world started changing to smoothbore 125 mm + missile capability and this really put the Arjun designers in a fix. But this sort of thing is normal in all arms development. Better armour was nullified by innovation. Explosive reactive armour nullifies higher firepower to an extent and the next step is active defence against munitions. This is an area that India should step into soon. The Israelis have been at it for a while and other are not far behind.

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10672
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 23 Oct 2017 09:30

The Arjun's rifled gun is highly accurate, more so than any tank in service with the IA / Pakistan or China. The other tanks feature smoothbore guns.

The Lahat is carried within a sleeve, which is seen separating after exiting the barrel.

Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 9160
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Yagnasri » 23 Oct 2017 11:49


uddu
BRFite
Posts: 1734
Joined: 15 Aug 2004 17:09

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby uddu » 23 Oct 2017 12:06

Lahat got rejected by the Army for excessive smoke. DRDO came up with CLGM. This is the missile that will arm Arjun.

Gaur
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 2013
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Gaur » 23 Oct 2017 14:03

On Army's recommendation, DRDO makes modifications in battle tank Arjun Mark II

http://www.timesnownews.com/india/article/indian-army-arjun-mark-ii-drdo-defence-research-and-development-organisation-battle-tank/110907

"We have done the modifications... it will go through the trials and there is a possibility that Arjun MK II (battle tank) will be accepted by Army and two regiments have already agreed to induct the tanks," said DRDO Chairman, while talking to reporters here.
Christopher was here to inaugurate POINTS 21 Batch of Post Induction Training School programme for newly inducted DRDO scientists at the Defence Institute of Advanced Technology here.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17631
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 23 Oct 2017 14:13

"Arjun will have a better gun barrel with an equivalent firing charge (strength of the barrel to sustain firing) of 500 rounds against the T 72's 250 rounds." Any idea of the T-90 barrel's sustained firing rate?

It looks like the IA is finally coming round to acquiring more A-2s,which meets its reqs. One supposes that in battle it would be used like the T-80s and T-72s Sov. armoured warfare philosophy.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 893
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Manish_P » 23 Oct 2017 15:05

The barrel life of 2A46M 125mm gun on the T-90M is said to be between 900 (western sources) and 1200 (russian sources) EFCs (Equivalent Full Charges)

The barrel life of the Rheinmetall L/55 120mm gun on the Leopard 2 is said to be about 1500 EFCs (western sources)

Incidentally the rifled L30A1 120mm of the Challenger 2 is said to be around 500 EFC (western sources).

In general it is said that smoothbores last longer than the grooves of the rifled guns

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33696
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 Oct 2017 17:54

Philip wrote:"One supposes that in battle it would be used like the T-80s and T-72s Sov. armoured warfare philosophy.

What is that?

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3961
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 23 Oct 2017 18:28

^^^ Quality over Quantity

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33696
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 23 Oct 2017 19:25

Why would our armoured corps with their own history and experience be copying Soviet tactics? Why do we see our own as kind of dumb who can't think or innovate

I am reminded of an early comment made on my video based on BR's story "A Tale of Two Hydraulics Systems"
hahaha fighter jets arent for that side of the world...nor are you "super fighter pilots"

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5744
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 23 Oct 2017 21:14

1.Do our artillery guns use smooth bore or rifled barrels?
2. If it is the former, what is the challenge for the Indian industry to build smooth bore guns for Arjun?
3. Is the gun barrels of T-72 manufactured by Kalyani smooth bore or rifled?

srin
BRFite
Posts: 1377
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby srin » 23 Oct 2017 21:54

Soviet tactics involved sending lot of untrained conscripts to battlefield and given their level of training, not expected to survive too much. I was binge-watching a tv series called "Soviet Storm" on Youtube over the weekend, and was appalled at the amount of losses they took.
In the cold war, the assumption was that any hot war (say across Fulda Gap) would immediately turn nuclear and so, developing a high-quality tank wouldn't be required.

Neither of these assumptions apply to us. So, referring to us adopting those same Soviet armoured philosophy is silly.

nam
BRFite
Posts: 505
Joined: 05 Jan 2017 20:48

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby nam » 23 Oct 2017 23:08

Indranil wrote:1.Do our artillery guns use smooth bore or rifled barrels?
2. If it is the former, what is the challenge for the Indian industry to build smooth bore guns for Arjun?
3. Is the gun barrels of T-72 manufactured by Kalyani smooth bore or rifled?


We produce T90 smooth-bore barrels, after the Russki made up excuses on giving us the tech. I think this is produced at OFB.

So smooth-bore for Arjun is not an issue. Thing is Army never had any issues with the gun and armor. They never asked for a smooth-bore, that's why Arjun still has rifled.

What will be interesting , if we go smoothbore for Arjun, will need to deploy a single piece 120MM ammo. A first for India.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5744
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Indranil » 23 Oct 2017 23:42

srin wrote:Soviet tactics involved sending lot of untrained conscripts to battlefield and given their level of training, not expected to survive too much. I was binge-watching a tv series called "Soviet Storm" on Youtube over the weekend, and was appalled at the amount of losses they took.
In the cold war, the assumption was that any hot war (say across Fulda Gap) would immediately turn nuclear and so, developing a high-quality tank wouldn't be required.

Neither of these assumptions apply to us. So, referring to us adopting those same Soviet armoured philosophy is silly.

Nothing unique about the Russians here. Europeans, Americans, Japanese, Vietnamese, anybody for that matter sent whoever was ready to go to war. Many did not even give a choice. If you were a certain age, you had to go.

Nothing golden about the western world. You just happen to see English videos made by westerners. That's all.

Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 3961
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Rakesh » 24 Oct 2017 00:01

shiv wrote:Why would our armoured corps with their own history and experience be copying Soviet tactics? Why do we see our own as kind of dumb who can't think or innovate. I am reminded of an early comment made on my video based on BR's story "A Tale of Two Hydraulics Systems"

We had/have a large amount of Soviet/Russian tanks - T-55s, PT-76s, T-72s and now T-90s. The equipment you have, makes you adopt certain tactics. However, the tactical use of those tanks can be tailored to based on what the Army wants. But you cannot adopt tactics that exceed the physical / engineering limitations of the machine. Some things that an Arjun tank can do, a T-72 or a T-90 may not be able to. So you have a greater flexibility with a superior product which the Arjun is Vis-à-vis the T-72/T-90. And one can exploit the full capabilities of a superior machine, if it is your own product...which also the Arjun is.

Now running back into my foxhole, while Hakeem sharpens his mind for a verbal assault at me :)

P.S. The article you posted above is an excellent example on tailoring a solution on a phoren product, when encountering a technical challenge. Great article. I read it quite often, weird I know...but very motivating.

Sanjiv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Sanjiv » 24 Oct 2017 00:59

The way things are going it will be Pakistan who may well get The Armata or its Chinese clone
It would be worthwhile designing a new tank around the Rheinmetall 130mm or like as a new venture or joining the proposed Franco -German
Leopard 2 , Leclerc replacement project otherwise the Indian Army will want it purchased to counter Armata or its clone by 2025

Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5053
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Viv S » 24 Oct 2017 01:21

Indranil wrote:Nothing unique about the Russians here. Europeans, Americans, Japanese, Vietnamese, anybody for that matter sent whoever was ready to go to war. Many did not even give a choice. If you were a certain age, you had to go.

Nothing golden about the western world. You just happen to see English videos made by westerners. That's all.

Not quite. While US had dropped the draft post-Vietnam and returning to being a professional force in the 70s the NATO armies still had 'national service', same as the Soviets. The crucial difference was that the former retained a professional & very competent NCO corps while the Soviet NCO's were promoted conscripts leading to a more hierarchical system with poorer initiative, morale & leadership at lower levels (similar to the US military during Vietnam).

There was also a cultural factor that influenced design as well as operational philosophies *individualism of the West v. the statism of the Soviet system), as well as their experiences of WWII. Ramana posted a link to a wonderful article on the AV thread that illustrates some of this. If haven't read it yet, enjoy :) -

Profiles in Cold Steel: The Making of Tanks

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47907
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2017 02:39

Philip means tank warfare on large fronts.

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby srai » 24 Oct 2017 03:28

Rakesh wrote:
shiv wrote:Why would our armoured corps with their own history and experience be copying Soviet tactics? Why do we see our own as kind of dumb who can't think or innovate. I am reminded of an early comment made on my video based on BR's story "A Tale of Two Hydraulics Systems"

We had/have a large amount of Soviet/Russian tanks - T-55s, PT-76s, T-72s and now T-90s. The equipment you have, makes you adopt certain tactics. However, the tactical use of those tanks can be tailored to based on what the Army wants. But you cannot adopt tactics that exceed the physical / engineering limitations of the machine. Some things that an Arjun tank can do, a T-72 or a T-90 may not be able to. So you have a greater flexibility with a superior product which the Arjun is Vis-à-vis the T-72/T-90. And one can exploit the full capabilities of a superior machine, if it is your own product...which also the Arjun is.

Now running back into my foxhole, while Hakeem sharpens his mind for a verbal assault at me :)

P.S. The article you posted above is an excellent example on tailoring a solution on a phoren product, when encountering a technical challenge. Great article. I read it quite often, weird I know...but very motivating.

One of the issues we keep hearing about Arjun from the IA is that it is too different (aka bigger/heavier Western tank design philosophy) than what they have been used to for many decades. This has lead to a barrier in its adoption. Hard to re-train set mindsets.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 893
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Manish_P » 24 Oct 2017 10:20

Indranil wrote:1.Do our artillery guns use smooth bore or rifled barrels?
2. If it is the former, what is the challenge for the Indian industry to build smooth bore guns for Arjun?
3. Is the gun barrels of T-72 manufactured by Kalyani smooth bore or rifled?


Indranil ji, most modern artillery guns use rifled barrels

They are so because of a) the type of munitions are typically high explosive/sub-munitions (some of which may be airburst), b) the long ranges and c) the accuracy needed over those long range are much more important than the pure velocity (kinetic energy) over the relatively short ranges needed for anti-armor penetration sabot rounds needed against Tanks

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47907
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2017 10:28

Smooth bore is for fin stabilized rounds as the projectile does not spin.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17631
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 24 Oct 2017 10:45

In any future war with Pak and large use of armour,inevitable,we would have a few thousand T-series tanks plus only a few hundreds of Arjuns,1&2s with us. given transportation,logistics worked out,on terrain suitable for both MBTs,we could see the IA possibly use a combo of Arjun + T-90s/72s in battle,with the MBT rated as having the superior survivability/armour possibly spearheading he attack.The Sov. tactic was to use its superior tanks to break through NATO armour and then pour in large numbers of T-series to rapidly overwhelm the enemy and penetrate deep into NATO territory. Facing two modern MBTs would also be a v.difficult task for the Paki armour to counter and since we d still have superior numbers of armour compared with Pak,unless they possess decent air support would have to give way/retreat. This is why they adopted a strategy of using tactical nukes for fear of Indian breakthroughs at several points on the border,made easier by the Cold Start doctrine.

Here is a Heritage Foundation report on countering a Sov. armour by NATO.
Checking Soviet Armor's Threat to NATO
http://www.heritage.org/europe/report/c ... hreat-nato

...and the opposite viewpoint.

Russian war strategy and tactics give Moscow ‘the edge’ over NATO, Moscow analyst says

http://euromaidanpress.com/2016/05/14/r ... #arvlbdata
Some analysts in response to this began talking about the mysteries of the Russian soul, but more thoughtful commentators focused on three major aspects of Russian tactical doctrine that has evolved over the last several decades. They are:

“First, Russians clearly acknowledge that in war people are killed and there is no practical sense of slowing down an attack operation because of each tank put out of commission. Vacillation in the final analysis leads to defeat and as a result to still larger losses.”

“Second, support and reinforcement should be given to those units and those directions which achieve success” instead of the Western practice of reinforcing those which are in trouble.

“Third, the Russian side devotes enormous importance to massed support of the attack by artillery” and recognizes that “for the foreseeable future,” Moscow may not be fighting in places where it has air superiority.”

“The basic error of Atlanticist doctrines was and remains arrogance,” Krutikov argues, and the assumption that airpower can always be called in to defeat any land operation. But Russia’s successes in Georgia and the Donbas, both promoted by these principles, show that confidence is unwarranted because Russian anti-aircraft weaponry eliminated this advantage.

“Russian military doctrine (not in its written politicized variant but in practice) over the last 15 years has evolved significantly,” Krutikov says, “while American (and NATO as a whole) remain in the framework they had in the 1980s and 1990s.” And that gives Russia an advantage in any conflict as recent events in Syria demonstrate.


A more detailed analysis is in this Princeton paper. reg. Sov, tactics,"echelons" where rear echelon-2 forces would be "preconnected" reserves
assigned their pre-determined objectives and goals.Reserves as contingency forces to deal with unexpected threats or opportunities.
The Soviet/Warsaw Pact
Ground Forces Threat
to Europe

https://www.princeton.edu/~ota/disk2/19 ... 871806.PDF

rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 998
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby rkhanna » 24 Oct 2017 12:23

" both promoted by these principles, show that confidence is unwarranted because Russian anti-aircraft weaponry eliminated this advantage"

My reading of the SAM coverage the Russians deployed in Syria was that it was full of holes and once Allied Aircraft got comfortable with their presence it was not a hindrance. The S-xxx Deployment required constant readjustment as the Americans repeatedly penetrated the SAM nets.

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47907
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2017 20:04

Gagan wrote:The Arjun's rifled gun is highly accurate, more so than any tank in service with the IA / Pakistan or China. The other tanks feature smoothbore guns.

The Lahat is carried within a sleeve, which is seen separating after exiting the barrel.


Sabot.

So Arjun has showed it can fire the Lahat and the CLGM is on its way.

So what other objections are there?

srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby srai » 24 Oct 2017 20:14

ramana wrote:
Gagan wrote:The Arjun's rifled gun is highly accurate, more so than any tank in service with the IA / Pakistan or China. The other tanks feature smoothbore guns.

The Lahat is carried within a sleeve, which is seen separating after exiting the barrel.


Sabot.

So Arjun has showed it can fire the Lahat and the CLGM is on its way.

So what other objections are there?

Apparently the bridges on the Pakistani side are not rated for Arjun MBT weight :P

Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10672
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Gagan » 24 Oct 2017 20:51

^^^
:mrgreen:
Maybe we can ask China to include border roads & bridges under CPEC so that they can withstand 70 ton weight.
Because to leave it upto the Pakistan - those beggers don't have any money

ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 47907
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby ramana » 24 Oct 2017 21:26

No. Arjun is planned to be deployed in the desert area. No rivers there.

I think most of the problems have been addressed.
Yes its heavier than the Mk1 but has those features required by the IA.

The US Army has a version 3 of their M1 Abrams and its mostly software upgrade etc to make it more lethal.
About 60 were built and further 940 to re-equip the armored brigades is underway.
What this means is the older M1s could be given to frontline allie to take on Taliban.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 893
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Manish_P » 24 Oct 2017 21:50

ramana wrote:What this means is the older M1s could be given to frontline allie to take on Taliban.


Now that is an ominous and loaded statement

Well put, Ramana sir!

It might well be 'given' to their front line aka 'Major Non Nato' ally to take on the taliban or the haqqanis or whatever names they take on.. and after a decade or so make an offer to 'sell' the latest versions to their 'Major Defence Partner'

After all they did give/upgrade the Pakis F-16s to take on the Taliban Air Farce didn't they :roll:

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2117
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby kit » 24 Oct 2017 22:08

srai wrote:
ramana wrote:
Sabot.

So Arjun has showed it can fire the Lahat and the CLGM is on its way.

So what other objections are there?

Apparently the bridges on the Pakistani side are not rated for Arjun MBT weight :P

:rotfl:

kit
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2117
Joined: 13 Jul 2006 18:16

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby kit » 24 Oct 2017 22:11

Manish_P wrote:
ramana wrote:What this means is the older M1s could be given to frontline allie to take on Taliban.


Now that is an ominous and loaded statement

Well put, Ramana sir!

It might well be 'given' to their front line aka 'Major Non Nato' ally to take on the taliban or the haqqanis or whatever names they take on.. and after a decade or so make an offer to 'sell' the latest versions to their 'Major Defence Partner'

After all they did give/upgrade the Pakis F-16s to take on the Taliban Air Farce didn't they :roll:


not to mention the air to air missiles against the tabi "flying" fighters :mrgreen:

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 893
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Manish_P » 25 Oct 2017 11:36

Ah but Kit sahab, you might have some experts telling you that said AMRAAMs were modified into ground attack mode only and had seeker resolution suitably changed and made accurate so as to be able to see the individual hairs around the a^%$hole of the talib while he was busy buggering the khushpoo/ayesha.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17631
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 25 Oct 2017 11:59

M-1s? A bit too sophisticated for the Afghans.I think they're much happier with T-72s,esp. second-hand ones which they can acquire for a song.It would be good to see A-2s in future exercises of the IA operating in various terrain,put through its paces.

ParGha
BRFite
Posts: 826
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 06:01

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby ParGha » 25 Oct 2017 17:40

ramana wrote:No. Arjun is planned to be deployed in the desert area.


Merhinks it’s been setup for failure — a heavy tank like Arjun should be deployed in strategic positions like Akhnoor and Gurdaspur District, where there is going to be tank-on-tank bloodbaths. Not in the deserts, where light and fast moving columns are fighting a battle of maneuver.

I feel even T-90s are too heavy for the desert sector. Up-engined T-72s and BMP 2s, are probably best for this area... to be replaced by a modern indegenous 35-40T light tank and FICVs. Remember that their main targets are trains and soft-skinned trucks shuttling supplies between N and S Pakistan, and soft flanks and rear area posts — not getting bogged down in tank-on-tank battles. Much of the work is for sappers and infantry in ICVs, with tanks mostly for security duties.

Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17631
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Philip » 25 Oct 2017 21:34

T90s have been in action in Syria,desert terrain what?

mody
BRFite
Posts: 323
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby mody » 27 Oct 2017 18:05

All current western MBTs have a smooth bore 120 mm gun, except the Challenger-II. The Russian design tanks have a 125 mmm smooth bore gun to compensate for the carousel autoloader.

For Arjun we chose the rifled gun like the Challenger, to use the HESH round. IA wanted a HESH round instead of the HEAT round to take on bunkers and other concrete structures.
Now DRDO has developed a new Thermobaric round and the requirement for HESH round is likely to be dropped for FMBT project.
There is a tradeoff in using a rifled gun in that the FSAPDS round has a slightly lower velocity as compared to when fired from a smoothbore gun.

For FMBT DRDO has declared they will develop a 125 mm smoothbore gun with FSAPDS rounds, CLGM type missile and thermobaric rounds.

Now with rhinemetal coming up with a 130 mm gun, maybe IA will also be tempted to ask for a 130 mm gun instead.

For the engine, we can get the MTU-893 engine instead of the obsolete MTU-838 the we have been using. In fact I recall that years ago MTU had offered the MTU-883 engine instead of the 838, but we declined. There was even a proposal to have AC in the Arjun tanks. But shockingly IA refused as all its other tanks did not have one.

Sanjiv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 12
Joined: 19 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby Sanjiv » 27 Oct 2017 18:51

The 130 mm will need a completely New turret
May be join the Franco German tank replacement project if given work share per no’s ordered
The Germans will not order many
I read recently, one week they had 8 operational Leopard 2
There cut backs with cost of settling refugees estimated to be 183 billion Euro’s will only get worse.
If India orders a large no it may have leverage in design input and TOT and share of exports

AdityaM
BRFite
Posts: 1802
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby AdityaM » 28 Oct 2017 17:05

Met a young Lt Col in a hospital today. From the armoured background- T90. In his tank overalls, although in a non combat posting.

He was all praises for Arjun. Except for its size signature. He was clearly calling it a great tank

He had heard of BR. But he wasn’t aware of the failure of T90 in the Russian tank exercise.

Gave me his visiting card. Wondering how to keep in touch.

d_berwal
BRFite
Posts: 513
Joined: 08 Dec 2006 14:08
Location: Jhonesburg

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby d_berwal » 28 Oct 2017 21:53

AdityaM wrote:Met a young Lt Col in a hospital today. From the armoured background- T90. In his tank overalls, although in a non combat posting.

He was all praises for Arjun. Except for its size signature. He was clearly calling it a great tank

He had heard of BR. But he wasn’t aware of the failure of T90 in the Russian tank exercise.

Gave me his visiting card. Wondering how to keep in touch.


Just look at the Tank Bathalion vdo full ones and call it a failure. Engine conced off its ok/ acceptable(machines fail).

Look at the Skills:
- Driving
- Shooting (all weapons)

If you want to stay in touch just call up regular and share ur wisdom.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 33696
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby shiv » 28 Oct 2017 22:21

Sanjiv wrote: TOT

For how many more decades will my countrymen imagine that other nations will "Transfer technology" to us? If people in industry and the armed forces are as naive as we have been, god help us

disha
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 6078
Joined: 03 Dec 2006 04:17
Location: gaganaviharin

Re: MBT Arjun - News and Discussions

Postby disha » 29 Oct 2017 00:17

^All foreigners have to say "ToT" and that lights a fire and then they dance around it chanting the mantra of "ToT, ToT, ToT ..." and the desis eyes light up. Some ToT will come, not necessarily whether it is useful or not, relevant or not, it is a "ToT".

This is because we have a keen sense of under-accomplishment that all our real accomplishments are useless. And hence any thing which is Indian or Desi technology is useless.


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: deejay, Yahoo [Bot] and 40 guests