Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

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Kersi
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Kersi »

What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?
Thakur_B
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Thakur_B »

Kersi wrote:What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?
Sudarshan is a long dead program. Replaced with PG-HSLD / NG-LGB program around 6-7 years back.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by vimal »

Kersi wrote:What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?
Some interesting tidbits here.

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en
Kersi
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Kersi »

vimal wrote:
Kersi wrote:What news of Sudarshan, the DRDO designed LGB ?
Some interesting tidbits here.

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en
THANKS
ramana
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

please post the text as he blocks.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by vimal »

https://twitter.com/vkthakur/status/113 ... 44?lang=en

Posting full text

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
The May 24 test of
@DRDO_India
developed 500-kg class Inertial Guided Bomb (IGB) is significant. Assuming a satnav position update capability, such a bomb could, if well implemented, achieve Spice 2000 precision against a visually obscured target at a significantly lower cost

Image
Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
First and foremost, let me clarify that the IGB is not SAAW or its derivative. I am inclined to believe that all
@DRDO_India
500-kg class bombs - guided or unguided - are variants of the 450-kg High Speed Low Drag (HSLD) bomb displayed at #AI2017
Image
Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
The variants include the 500-kg GP bomb & the 500-kg PG HSLD bomb. The HSLD bomb also serves as the warhead for the Griffin LG kit.
@DRDO_India
has similarly developed a family of bombs around its 250-kg HSLD. SAAW most likely belongs to that family of weapons.

Image
The ability of the IGB to fly near horizontally after separation from its pylon suggests a good range that would vary with the speed and height of the releasing aircraft.

Image

Vijainder K Thakur
@vkthakur
·
May 25, 2019
The vertical strike by the weapon could suggest a capability to program flight path as is the case with the Spice kit.
Image
The specifications of the 450-kg HSLD bomb / warhead as displayed at #AI2017
Image
ramana
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

Good analysis. However, SPICE is a guidance kit for a number of warheads of different sizes.

SAAW and IGB meet an IAF requirement drafted in the 2005 timeframe.

Karan M had posted the link.

I agree the near horizontal release utilizes the IGB body lift for range and the guidance corrects the wind errors.

Thanks for posting.

Link gto wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Glide_Bombs
Looks like there are two types 500Kg and 1000kg long range bombs

Wonder if they can add this as an alternate to make them into sea mines?

https://www.drdo.gov.in/sites/default/f ... iption.pdf
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Prem Kumar »

Have orders been placed for either Gaurav or Gautham?

The Wiki page confuses these bombs with guidance kit like Spice. Also says that they have laser homing (there was a HT article to that effect). But I don't see a laser seeker in either of these bombs. They are inertially guided (probably IRNSS too)
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

They don't have a seeker.
Wiki has tons of bokwas when it comes to Indian products.
Every joker puts his fantasy or spin.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Prem Kumar »

Once we have a decent sized UAV fleet for round the clock monitoring, we could look at separating the sensor from shooter, when it comes to SEAD missions. Traditionally, ARM missiles are air-launched, because the emitters are detected by the aircraft & they may be mobile.

But what if we have UAVs (even LEO sats) act as the sensors? Then, the shooters could be ground-launched. Example: we can have a juiced-up Pinaka, with a PHH + MMW seeker and INS/GPS guidance being guided to its destination by a UAV. You can even launch a salvo, to increase the kill-probability. An aircraft will be limited in this regard. It will be a much cheaper option to do SEAD missions. Plus we wouldn't endanger a $100M fighter aircraft for the mission.

For longer ranges, we can even equip a Pralay with the above sensor package (which has already been proved on Rudram-1).

This is a solution similar to the SMART very long range, anti-submarine torpedo/missile system.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ernest »

Prem Kumar wrote: But what if we have UAVs (even LEO sats) act as the sensors? Then, the shooters could be ground-launched. Example: we can have a juiced-up Pinaka, with a PHH + MMW seeker and INS/GPS guidance being guided to its destination by a UAV. You can even launch a salvo, to increase the kill-probability. An aircraft will be limited in this regard. It will be a much cheaper option to do SEAD missions. Plus we wouldn't endanger a $100M fighter aircraft for the mission.

For longer ranges, we can even equip a Pralay with the above sensor package (which has already been proved on Rudram-1).

This is a solution similar to the SMART very long range, anti-submarine torpedo/missile system.

Good idea. The ~5min time to target for SSM (more for CM) of this range will give some time for radars to do evasive movements. Air launched missiles missiles within 100km give ~2min. But that all depends on the radar being alerted. With the Air Launched Soln, radars get alerted earlier. With Pralay like SSM, it will need to detect the missile at long ranges, which will be tough for most radar systems. With CM, it will be tougher to detect until they're few km away.

For Pakistan, most of our use cases will be satisfied by enhanced Pinaka, like you mentioned.

The future is going to be tougher for defensive systems, with crazy evolution in LM, SSM and sensors everywhere.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Prem Kumar »

ramana
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

Link to Trishul blog spot.

https://trishul-trident.blogspot.com/
Adani has built the largest 155mm shell and filling plant in world.
Can mfg 2Million rounds/ year.
155mm ERFB-BB and BT, an M107 plain carbon steel shells.
ramana
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

Prem Kumar wrote:https://twitter.com/GODOFPARADOXES/stat ... 2757447682

Image

Is Sudarshan making a comeback?
Dont know. They keep saying HSLD but from the viewing angle, it looks like the 1000 lb-MC.

But note the dual mode of GPS/INS and Laser Seeker.

So it is a combined JDAM and Paveway characteristic.
And stand-off range of 30 km. That keeps it out of most shoulder-fired SAMS.

I wonder if they tested it with Gagan availability?
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by ramana »

X-posted from Aero India
ramana wrote:TBRL, Chandigarh displays three products

https://twitter.com/DefenceReach/status ... 67744?s=20

Sample:
NASAM Note the multiple EFP generated. Similar to Kormoran Warhead by MBB, Germany

Image

LRGB Tandem Warhead Means this is for hard target penetration
Bye, Bye Rutog

Image

Most significant is the fuze system for air-delivered bombs. Earlier IAF sued to get Russian versions.
Since this is TBRL its reliability will be in the high 90s.

Image


See the inset diagram. The nose plug initiates(probably a piezo-electric signal generator) the precursor charge and the follow-through warhead in the tail or aft. That means this is a precision fuze with timing delays. An example of MUNITRONICS.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by drnayar »

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/weap ... aric-bombs


Aero India 2023: Munitions India to start mass producing 1,000 lb thermobaric bombs
17 FEBRUARY 2023

by Rahul Udoshi

Image

A cutout model of the 1000 lb thermobaric bomb. (Janes/Rahul Udoshi)

India's state-run Munitions India Limited (MIL) will start the mass production and supply of 1,000 lb thermobaric bombs from 2023, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) said at the Aero India 2023 show, which concluded on 17 February.

An official from the DRDO's High Energy Materials Research Laboratory (HEMRL) told Janes that the technology transfer to produce the 1,000 lb thermobaric bomb has been transferred to the MIL, which is also an agency under the DRDO. An initial order of 500 units from the Indian Air Force (IAF) will be delivered by the end of 2023, he said.
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Rakesh »

New Indigenous Loiter Munition Showcased For Indian Army
https://bharatshakti.in/weapons-display ... hool-mhow/
15 Nov 2023
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Prem Kumar »

Good going! The IA also tested swarm drones and automatic attack by loitering munitions in GPS denied environments (Ukraine war lessons)

Nagastra-1 is a good buy but its payload of 1Kg can be improved. Need at least 8-12 Kgs warhead to defeat MBTs. Smaller warheads are enough for other armored vehicles, trucks, radars, disabling SAM systems etc

Heard that a Nagastra-2 is in the works with a higher range and longer loiter time and a 4 Kg warhead. Even with a 4 Kg warhead, it can mission-kill a tank if it takes out the main gun. It does not have to penetrate the armor or kill the guys inside
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Re: Munitions/sub-munitions: accuracy, power and utility

Post by Pratyush »

Top attack on tanks doesn't require huge warhead. Something that can penetrate only 100 to 150 mm RHA can kill any Chinese origin tank.
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