Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vivek K » 01 Mar 2018 00:13

---del----
Last edited by Rakesh on 01 Mar 2018 00:17, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post moved to AEW&C Thread

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 01 Mar 2018 08:27

No request made to US for F-35 fighter jet, says IAF chief B S Dhanoa

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has denied that it has shown explicit interest in procuring the American F-35 Lightning II aircraft for its depleting fighter fleet. The reports about IAF approaching Lockheed Martin for a classified briefing on the F-35 came amid news that the government has decided to scrap the proposal to make a single-engine foreign fighter in India.

“We have not officially asked for a briefing on the F-35 nor has any request been made to the Americans,” IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal BS Dhanoa told The Indian Express.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 01 Mar 2018 13:52

Will IAF get more eyes in the sky? Defense ministry to decide today
Wednesday, February 28, 2018
By: India Today
Seeking to boost indigenous defence capabilities, the defence ministry is expected to consider a proposal worth over Rs 20,000 crore on Wednesday to develop six 'eyes in the sky' Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AWACS) planes to monitor activities of rival air forces deep inside their territories.

"A DRDO proposal to develop six AWACS planes on the Airbus A-330 aircraft worth over Rs 20,000 crore is expected to come up for discussion at a high level meeting of the defence ministry under defence minister Nirmala Sitharaman," a government source told MAIL TODAY.

As per the plan, the DRDO would first develop the two aircraft from Airbus and modify them to fix radar over them which would give them the capability to conduct 360 degree snooping with a range of over 400 km in the sky, sources said.

This would be followed up by another four aircraft which would add to the two Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEWC) aircraft based on the Embraer aircraft.

The DRDO-developed aircraft would be in the league of the three Phalcon AWACS planes that India had acquired from Israel and Russia in a tripartite deal around 10 years ago for USD 1.1 billion (Rs 7,154 crore).

India had plans of acquiring two more such planes but the project has been put on the backburner as both countries have increased the price of the radar and the Ilsyushin-76 transport aircraft on which the radar is mounted by almost double.

The cost of the two planes has gone above USD 1.5 billion (Rs 9,755 crore) whereas the first three planes had been acquired a few years ago for USD 1.1 billion (Rs 7,154 crore).

The next-generation AWACS, with a 360-degree scan being developed by the DRDO, may also be developed as an air-to-air refueller.

The new system being developed by DRDO would have AESA (active electronically scanned array) radars with 360 degree capability, which can detect incoming aerial threats such as hostile fighters, drones and cruise missiles from 400 km away.

India will be only the second country in the world after Israel to develop such a system.

The AWACS being developed on the Airbus aircraft is far more advanced than the surveillance platform developed on the Embraer aircraft as it will provide 360 degree angle of coverage against the 240 degree angle of an AEWC plane. The DAC had earlier given approval to the DRDO's plan to develop two AWACS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 01 Mar 2018 13:55

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Safra ... CA--536700

Safran close to combat Jet Engine deal for India's LCA
Wednesday, February 28, 2018
By: Reuters
France’s Safran is close to an agreement to supply a version of its M88 military jet engine for India’s Tejas light combat aircraft, two people close to the discussions said.

The deal, if confirmed, could be finalised during a visit to India by French President Emmanuel Macron next month, they said, adding that negotiations could still be blown off course.

Safran declined comment. French newspaper La Tribune, which first reported the possible deal, said the M88 would be offered as part of a revived version of India’s stalled Kaveri jet engine programme, which was initially linked to the Tejas.

The Tejas fighter entered service in 2016, 33 years after it was approved as the country sought to build a modern fighter from scratch for an air force that was entirely dependent on foreign - mostly Soviet-origin - aircraft.

But the single-engine plane has been dogged by production delays at state-run Hindustan Aeronautics and only a small number have so far entered the air force, currently powered by engines from General Electric.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 01 Mar 2018 14:55

Manish_P wrote:<OT>I saw Vijeta when I was a school kid. And Top Gun when I was in college (with the GF). I was the odd one out.. I liked Vijeta much more. Maybe it was Angad managing to recover from the spin.. unlike Maverick! Well ok so I might have had a school boy crush on Anna :)

Truth be told I really liked the restrained performances of Sashi Kapoor, Amrish Puri, Om Puri.. so realistic and different from their usual bollywood image... damn the realization just hit me that all 3 have passed away :( <OT>


the calm rich confident voice of instructor amrish puri telling a disoriented angad singh to induce and recover from the stall and spin repeatedly was amazing ...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby nits » 01 Mar 2018 14:58

The Tejas fighter entered service in 2016, 33 years after it was approved


This line should be banned from every news article... Move ON

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 01 Mar 2018 18:39

nits wrote:
The Tejas fighter entered service in 2016, 33 years after it was approved


This line should be banned from every news article... Move ON

It took a decade for news media to stop (at least put brakes on) saying "80,000,00,0000 people have been killed in Kashmir a flashpoint between nuclear rivals India and Pakistan. These people have database where they simply copy-paste some old info to fill space. The media are stupid and somehow need to be taught a lesson

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 11 Mar 2018 22:05

Tata-Boeing venture to roll out Apache chopper fuselages
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2018/03/t ... pache.html

Every Apache built worldwide will have a made-in-Hyderabad fuselage

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 11 Mar 2018 23:32

In hind site India should have gotten licence to.build
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEFA_cannon

Look at Ourugan to Mystete to Jaguar to M2K all armed with at least 2 of them

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 12 Mar 2018 15:50

F-35s are not the right choice for India’s defence | Opinion
The F-35 is such an incredibly integrated platform that changing its sensors would be like asking Apple to manufacture an iPhoneX just for you — with a Google pixel camera, a Samsung galaxy OLED screen and a Nokia touch sensor, just to make it compatible with your Windows laptop and Android tablet

The United States-produced F-35 stealth fighter seems to be the flavour of the moment in Delhi. Much of this has to do with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge campaign on since 2011 when it was reported that the US had offered a fixed price contract for the F-35A basic variant. Washington, at that point, swiftly dismissed rumours stating that the F-35 was not on the table right now. In private, top officials have been much more forthright giving us an emphatic “no.... there is a lot that needs to happen in the relationship before that conversation”. Surprisingly, more daydreaming by the air force has made manufacturer Lockheed Martin claim again that the F-35 is available to India, contrary to facts reinforced by official US government denials. This begs three questions: what are the operational impediments of the F-35? What are the associated costs? and what are the political sensitivities?

Operationally, the stealth tag merely makes it a great tactical fighter, while the real punch comes from the 5th generation tag, making it a node in a highly networked system of systems.

An inexact analogy is the iPhone X — it’s got great call quality, stunning visual, excellent camera, but imagine if it couldn’t interface with Gmail, Twitter, Paytm, Uber, or connect to Wi-Fi or 4G. In the F-35’s case not only is it unable to refuel from our current generation of tanker aircraft, it also cannot interface with India’s Integrated Air Command & Control System (IACCS) comprising ground and airborne radars, with customised data-links. Additionally the level of customisation for its target discrimination system that allows it to tell friend from foe, would have to be replaced completely as would all radio communications equipment. Logistically, almost none of our current weapons would be compatible with the F-35, meaning investing vast amounts in new air-to-air, ground and sea munitions, further complicating our already shambolic logistics.

But the real killer is control: India will not have control over anything on this plane — not the weapons, not the integration of new weapons, not even upgrading the threat database for the electronic warfare systems to jam forcing India to share our most sensitive signals intelligence with the US.

This brings us to the critical issue of cost. Why would something as simple as buying a new plane mean that our entire extant communications, logistics, equipment and infrastructure have to be changed? Technologically-speaking, again an Apple analogy. If you desperately want a seamless Apple experience with your iPhone X, you have to buy a Macbook and an iPad. The F-35 is such an incredibly integrated platform that changing its sensors would be like asking Apple to manufacture an iPhoneX just for you — with a Google pixel camera, a Samsung galaxy OLED screen and a Nokia touch sensor, just to make it compatible with your Windows laptop and Android tablet. All of this shoots the price up exponentially with no quality assurance of it working as intended at the end.

A few years back, Nato threatened Turkey with severe consequences for attempting to integrate a Chinese air defence system into its networked hub, ultimately forcing it to abandon the deal. For India, whose equipment is overwhelmingly Russian, the belief that the Americans will sell their crown jewel to interface with Russian equipment is laughable, especially in the wake of Russia’s sophisticated hacking of US elections, and India’s notoriously lax data hygiene and operational security.

Right now the level of political trust without India signing the Communication and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement (CISMOA) stands at F-16 transfer and that is all. For India to qualify for the F-35 politically, it would either have to abandon all its Russian equipment and ‘strategically autonomous’ networks, and make all equipment CISMOA compatible, or it would get a hollowed out aircraft, at a significant cost escalation with vastly reduced capabilities.

In short, the F-35 is a brilliant plane that’ll either wreck the budget or wreck our operational capability for decades to come with a very high political cost. Any talk of acquiring it therefore is deeply misguided, incredibly uninformed and incredibly dangerous.

Abhijit Iyer-Mitra is senior fellow, Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies and Angad Singh is deputy director, Project Adhira: an airpower focussed think-tank

The views expressed are personal

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 12 Mar 2018 16:05

Austin wrote:The F-35 is such an incredibly integrated platform that changing its sensors would be like asking Apple to manufacture an iPhoneX just for you — with a Google pixel camera, a Samsung galaxy OLED screen and a Nokia touch sensor, just to make it compatible with your Windows laptop and Android tablet



While there are valid points in the article, and I have been laying some out over the years as to why the F-35 will be difficult as a deal given the concept of its program and the way it is set up, the very first paragraph is so utterly useless in describing how modern systems work that one wonders whether the authors have conducted any sort of review of the systems architecture of it and other aircraft in order to draw a comparison to a consumer electronics product instead of a comparable system. They should have taken time to explain how "changing its sensors" is any more or less difficult than doing the same on the Rafale, or Typhoon, or Super Hornet. In fact just as this article is written the program is finalizing plans to *change* the aircraft's mission computers, its main targeting "LRU", and the 6 Distributed Aperture Sensors mounted on it. In fact in some cases they are completely changing the vendors for these systems (EODAS shifting from Northrop Grumman to Raytheon after an open competition where foreign OEMs could and likely did compete).

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vasu » 03 Apr 2018 17:18

HAL declared its unaudited and provisional results today. Hope this is the right thread for this.

Indian Aerospace Behemoth Clocks Highest-Ever Sales; Makes 40 Aircraft in a Year

India's state-owned aerospace manufacturer Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has reported its highest-ever sales turnover of $2.7 billion during the financial year 2017-18, which ended on 31 March 2018. A year before, the firm had reported a turnover of $2.62 billion.

HAL claimed it has produced 40 new aircraft/helicopters and 105 new engines. It has also carried out an overhaul of 220 aircraft/helicopters and 550 engines. Last year, it produced 12 Su-30MKI aircraft and 24 ALHs, in addition to overhauling 194 aircraft and helicopters and 473 aero engines.

In a remarkably good year, HAL also bagged a new contract worth $7.7 billion for the manufacture of 83 Mark-1A light combat aircraft for the Indian Air Force. The company has also bagged an order of 41 Advanced Light Helicopters and 8 Chetak helicopters from the Indian Armed Forces.

The company also received the order of 15 limited series light combat helicopters (LCH) from the Indian Air Force (IAF) and the Indian Army last December. It had received orders worth $3.2 billion in 2016-17, which included the production of 12 Do-228 aircraft for the Indian Navy, 32 ALH for the Navy and the Coast Guard, and AL-31 FP engines for Su-30MKIs.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vips » 03 Apr 2018 18:20

HAL's record turnover in FY18 masks concern over dwindling order book.

On Monday, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) announced a record turnover of over Rs 180 billion (provisional and unaudited) for the financial year (FY) ending March 31, 2018, narrowly edging past last year’s audited turnover of Rs 176.05 billion.

“During the FY 2017-18, the company has produced 40 new aircraft/helicopters and 105 new engines. The company has also carried out overhaul of 220 aircraft/ helicopters and 550 engines”, said a HAL release today.

Even so, company sources told Business Standard they are concerned about HAL’s dwindling order book, with the Sukhoi-30MKI production line at Nashik – its main cash cow – having almost completed delivery of the 222 fighters ordered by the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Priced at over Rs 5 billion each, HAL has barely 30-32 Sukhoi-30s left to build, and those will be delivered by 2020-end. With little progress on the India-Russia proposal to develop, and then manufacture, the eponymous Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA) at Nashik, the future of the Sukhoi-30 production line is uncertain.

Nor was the announcement of fresh orders this year reassuring. “The company has received order of 41 Advanced Light Helicopters and 8 Chetak helicopters from Indian Armed Forces in the FY 2017-18”, stated HAL on Monday. The total value of these orders is no more than Rs 30 billion.

For long an Indian aerospace monopoly, HAL once boasted of orders in hand worth Rs 1.5–2 trillion – amounting to a production backlog for eight-to-eleven years at current rates. Besides the Sukhoi-30, there were orders for Jaguar fighters, Hawk advanced jet trainers, Dhruv advanced light helicopters (ALHs) and the Tejas light combat aircraft.

But now HAL chief, T Suvarna Raju, tells Business Standard: “I have just Rs 690 billion of orders, including 30-odd Su-30MKIs and seventy-plus Dhruv ALHs. That is barely three years work, at our current turnover.

HAL’s meagre order book is assessed to be a reason for the underwhelming response to the company’s initial public offering (IPO) last month. Retail investors subscribed to just 40% of their quota leaving it to domestic financial institutions and mutual funds to rescue the IPO.

One silver lining in HAL’s announcement on Monday was the initial operational certification (IOC) of the indigenous Light Combat Helicopter (LCH), an important milestone towards production. In December, the IAF and army initiated the purchase of the first 15 LCHs – an order worth Rs 3,465 crore.

Eventually, the army plans to induct 114 LCHs and the IAF is committed to buying another 65 – orders worth Rs 41,350 crore at the current price of Rs 231 crore per helicopter. However, this production will be spread over about a decade.(Just six LCH per year)

HAL anticipates another income stream from the production of 187 Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) and up to a hundred HTT-40 basic trainers, both of which are being indigenously developed in Bengaluru.

In December, Raju told an aerospace industry gathering in New Delhi that they could participate as sub-vendors in these two projects, which would generate income worth about Rs 12,500 crore. This would include the manufacture of 100 HTT-40 trainers for Rs 45-50 crore each, and 187 LUH for about Rs 40 crore each.

Notwithstanding the complexity of helicopter development, HAL’s major income stream has always come from building fighter aircraft. Besides earlier commitments for 40 Tejas light combat aircraft (LCA), the defence ministry kickstarted the procurement of another 83 Tejas Mark 1A fighters in December. At an anticipated cost of Rs 400 crore per Tejas Mark 1A, that contract would amount to about Rs 33,000 crore.

“We are trying to get the IAF to convert that into a firm contract for 83 Tejas Mark 1A, which would improve our production planning, and our order book”, says Raju.

However, HAL has faced recurring problems in ramping up Tejas production even to the initially targeted eight fighters per year. The planned production rate of 12, and then 16 Tejas per year, is some way off.

That leaves HAL Nashik heavily dependent on orders for overhauling the Sukhoi-30 fleet. With each fighter requiring an overhaul after 1,500 hours of flying (or 14 years of service, if that happens first) the IAF’s fleet of 272 Su-30MKIs would, at its peak, require 30 fighters to be overhauled each year.

Finally, HAL will generate income from an on-going upgrade being carried out to the IAF’s fifty-odd Mirage-2000 fighters, and then possibly to the 120-strong fleet of Jaguar deep strike aircraft. The latter order, however, has been in the procurement pipeline for long and there is little sign of it materialising soon.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 04 Apr 2018 12:46

Cant really blame HAL , the orders to buy built etc is MOD decision , if MOD wants HAL can be busy for the next 10 years or 1 depends how much money they want to put into procurement and IAF needs ...between MOD/HAL/IAF its just money changing hands all part of GOI entity.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby tsarkar » 04 Apr 2018 17:08

Vips wrote:Eventually, the army plans to induct 114 LCHs and the IAF is committed to buying another 65 – orders worth Rs 41,350 crore at the current price of Rs 231 crore per helicopter. However, this production will be spread over about a decade.(Just six LCH per year)

(114+65)/10 = 18 helicopters per year.

HAL Nashik needs to convert to 16 Tejas a year. 32 Tejas a year over Mk1, Mk1A, Mk2 & AMCA will result in 960 fighters over 30 years - enough for 42-45 squadrons including attrition replacement.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby fanne » 04 Apr 2018 18:06

Important point -didn’t we buy 50 su30mki directly? (Or were they delivered by Hal by assembling sub parts). If they have delivered 222 then we already have 272. 32 should be left from the extra 40 ordered? Something is not right with this math.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby kit » 04 Apr 2018 19:33

fanne wrote:Important point -didn’t we buy 50 su30mki directly? (Or were they delivered by Hal by assembling sub parts). If they have delivered 222 then we already have 272. 32 should be left from the extra 40 ordered? Something is not right with this math.


they were Su 30 k s ( this was in 1990) ..vanilla ..was returned if i remember right ..then sold to Algeria ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby kit » 04 Apr 2018 19:42

brar_w wrote:
Austin wrote:The F-35 is such an incredibly integrated platform that changing its sensors would be like asking Apple to manufacture an iPhoneX just for you — with a Google pixel camera, a Samsung galaxy OLED screen and a Nokia touch sensor, just to make it compatible with your Windows laptop and Android tablet



While there are valid points in the article, and I have been laying some out over the years as to why the F-35 will be difficult as a deal given the concept of its program and the way it is set up, the very first paragraph is so utterly useless in describing how modern systems work that one wonders whether the authors have conducted any sort of review of the systems architecture of it and other aircraft in order to draw a comparison to a consumer electronics product instead of a comparable system. They should have taken time to explain how "changing its sensors" is any more or less difficult than doing the same on the Rafale, or Typhoon, or Super Hornet. In fact just as this article is written the program is finalizing plans to *change* the aircraft's mission computers, its main targeting "LRU", and the 6 Distributed Aperture Sensors mounted on it. In fact in some cases they are completely changing the vendors for these systems (EODAS shifting from Northrop Grumman to Raytheon after an open competition where foreign OEMs could and likely did compete).


I guess i should ask Brar ... instead of "changing" the F35 sensors, which are one of the most capable ones, and that DAS has almost no other equal, the main question of interface would come with how it would communicate with other platforms and sensors, for eg Ground-based radar; satellite comms; other fighter aircraft etc. Now the F35 is a highly networked, if not the most networked plane in warfare. , would it be so difficult to integrate with other platforms? ., what i mean is can it work with specific interfaces, like the Greenpine / Phalcon? The Israelis would probably have the solutions ., granted theirs is highly customized. I may have answered my own question there!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 04 Apr 2018 20:11

Kit, the answer is that it is no more difficult, and in some instances may be easier, than others when it comes to incorporating proprietary communication and command and control elements into its avionics architecture. For example, its CNI suit has this planned from its inception and the Israelis are, for example, making use of this in order for it to communicate with their proprietary systems. Likewise, integration activities are ongoing in Australia (Plan Jericho) and even Britain where they are looking at Typhoon-F-35 integration. Keep in mind that not all the Link-16 installed user base has the same set of L-16 solution. In many instances there are proprietary elements involved. But even outside, the way the CNI system is designed is that they account for custom hardware to be installed that can leverage the embedded antennas for communication and data-linking much like what Israel is doing. It is designed from the outset to be a large SDR so you can program it and introduce your own elements. The problems will occur if there is an end user who lacks any proprietary communication systems or data-links and wishes to have the organic US/NATO systems opened up so that they can be integrated with outside systems, like asking the F-35 to be integrated with a Russia ground based system being operated by a nation that has not made that Russian system compatible with an organic/proprietary C2 system but has just bought something off the shelf from Russia with no mods.

http://www.northropgrumman.com/Capabili ... asheet.pdf

But a large part of my skepticism actually stems from the way the JSF program is structured which is for efficiency when it comes to sharing resources and being part of a large user base. While this may seem intrusive to some, for NATO members and other close US allies this is synergistic and will ultimately lead to better interoperability at a lower cost. Clearly, this is not suited for nations who do not want it so they must invest in a custom solution which then lessens some of that efficiency. Israel is a good test example for this where they are going to be setting up their own MRO facilities and will not be sharing proprietary data back with the program partners. Another are is the Electronic-Warfare and the Mission-Data-Files onboard which are a very vital part of the JSF system. The US position is that any nation which is tapping in to the US National technical data-base which it has developed for the threats via its own SIGINT/ELINT and other technical means must safeguard that and therefore do all the EW programming in a joint manner with joint teams comprising of US and partner/FMS customer in question. FMS customers can choose to either do this on a one on one basis with the US or as a larger group.

That said, the article's focus on claiming that somehow changing the JSF's sensor is hard or even harder than any other comparable aircraft is highly misleading as is evident from the fact that except its radar, the targeting and mission computers are being changed as we speak (Block 4 pre-contract awarded on April 2nd) and in some instances new vendors are being brought in who were not part of the program before. It is the same case with weapons where the aircraft will be compatible with UAI and UAI-N starting with block-4.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Katare » 05 Apr 2018 01:04

Love the continuing orders for ALH each year- 32 last year and 41 this year...Go Dhruv...

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby tsarkar » 05 Apr 2018 09:45

fanne wrote:Important point -didn’t we buy 50 su30mki directly? (Or were they delivered by Hal by assembling sub parts). If they have delivered 222 then we already have 272. 32 should be left from the extra 40 ordered? Something is not right with this math.

1996 18K imported
2002-2005 32MKI - progressively improved 1,2,3,4 marks imported
2004-2019 140 MKI license manufacture
2007 40 MKI imported to replace MiG-23BN
2007 18 MKI imported to replace K
2012 42 MKI imported

Total 272. Imports as CKD/SKD also shown as manufactured by HAL. All 30/40 fighter references are leftover manufacturing of 140.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 05 Apr 2018 10:03

What happened to the 40+ MKIs to be upgraded to SS std. to carry BMos?
By the way, the Japanese have perfected their supersonic ASM , AX-3 I think.BMos is larger, but eould ne an ideal size for BMos-NG/L of which 2 can be carried .

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby uskumar » 05 Apr 2018 11:19

Not sure if this was posted before.

completed the first run of the HTSE-1200 turboshaft engine,


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -r-447244/

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby fanne » 05 Apr 2018 16:20

Disappointed, so total su30mki stands at 272 and not 314

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 05 Apr 2018 16:48

dont be so sad. no other countries barring 3 can boast of 250+ long range fighters.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 05 Apr 2018 17:07

fanne wrote:Disappointed, so total su30mki stands at 272 and not 314


It is more than 272 the acutal numbers are classified , IAF chief have many times mentioned "more than 272"

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby nachiket » 06 Apr 2018 01:37

The 272 number is the total aircraft ordered. The actual number in service will be less. The last order of 42 included 2 attrition replacements (for 2 MKI's which had crashed by then). More MKIs have been lost since then. I do not know the exact number. Unless we have ordered more attrition replacements the total number of MKIs in service will be 272 minus aircraft lost in accidents.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Aditya_V » 06 Apr 2018 11:37

I think 7 MkI's have been lost in accidents and operationally available will be 65-70% of the fleet as compared to 42% in 2014.

Singha, the Gulf nations have built a very good inventory of Fighters, Saudis probably between EF and F-15's on paper a very high number of High performance fighters- but still cant defeat the Houthis.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby tsarkar » 06 Apr 2018 16:02

Austin wrote:IAF chief have many times mentioned "more than 272"

When? Where?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby kit » 06 Apr 2018 16:49

Austin wrote:
fanne wrote:Disappointed, so total su30mki stands at 272 and not 314


It is more than 272 the acutal numbers are classified , IAF chief have many times mentioned "more than 272"


Thats correct ., the "strategic bomber" squadrons are left out and highly classified in its operational details ., not to mention their weaponry and avionics fits . They may or may not exist. The Rafales once they come in will add on to it in some numbers.They will be ground up tasked for interdiction stealth and carry long range nuclear tipped cruise missiles ( probably hypersonic missiles)

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby tsarkar » 06 Apr 2018 17:16

kit wrote:
Austin wrote:
It is more than 272 the acutal numbers are classified , IAF chief have many times mentioned "more than 272"


Thats correct ., the "strategic bomber" squadrons are left out and highly classified in its operational details ., not to mention their weaponry and avionics fits . They may or may not exist. The Rafales once they come in will add on to it in some numbers.They will be ground up tasked for interdiction stealth and carry long range nuclear tipped cruise missiles ( probably hypersonic missiles)

:roll: :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 06 Apr 2018 17:38

nachiket wrote:The 272 number is the total aircraft ordered. The actual number in service will be less. The last order of 42 included 2 attrition replacements (for 2 MKI's which had crashed by then). More MKIs have been lost since then. I do not know the exact number. Unless we have ordered more attrition replacements the total number of MKIs in service will be 272 minus aircraft lost in accidents.

There have been seven confirmed (airframe write-off) accidents to date. So like you said, 272 - 7 = 265

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 06 Apr 2018 17:57

Interview with iaf chief good details

http://bharatshakti.in/rafale-provides- ... air-chief/

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby kit » 06 Apr 2018 18:10

tsarkar wrote:
kit wrote:
Thats correct ., the "strategic bomber" squadrons are left out and highly classified in its operational details ., not to mention their weaponry and avionics fits . They may or may not exist. The Rafales once they come in will add on to it in some numbers.They will be ground up tasked for interdiction stealth and carry long range nuclear tipped cruise missiles ( probably hypersonic missiles)

:roll: :rotfl:


that was supposed to be scary :mrgreen: ..got to post it in a chinese forum :((

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Apr 2018 20:26

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Last edited by Rakesh on 07 Apr 2018 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post Moved to MMRCA Thread

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ArjunPandit » 06 Apr 2018 23:43

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Last edited by Rakesh on 07 Apr 2018 00:49, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Post Moved to MMRCA Thread

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby RKumar » 07 Apr 2018 01:05

Austin wrote:Interview with iaf chief good details

http://bharatshakti.in/rafale-provides- ... air-chief/


At one side we are saying HAL is going to produced 12 Tejas from 2018 and 16-24 Tejas from 2019 . Then IAF chief say 123 tejas will take 10 years. Something doesnt add up? Any comments, gurus on it? help this SRDE

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 07 Apr 2018 01:06

Just a typo.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby arun » 07 Apr 2018 12:59

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Last edited by Rakesh on 07 Apr 2018 18:59, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby nits » 07 Apr 2018 13:21

Country-wide IAF exercise to prepare for two-front threat posed by China, Pakistan

The exercise will be conducted in two separate phases for western and northern borders across India and deep over the Indian waters. More than 15,000 IAF personnel, including 300 officers, will move from their bases during the exercise which will see the involvement of over 1,100 aircraft. This would mean 3,000 to 4,000 sorties per day during the exercise.


Thats almost whole IAF conducting exercise; just wondering do we need to announce all this - i know some stuff will come out eventually but do we need all details in media or its done on purpuose to pass required message to neighbors ??


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