Bharat Rakshak Forum Announcement

Hello Everyone,

A warm welcome back to the Bharat Rakshak Forum.

Important Notice: Due to a corruption in the BR forum database we regret to announce that data records relating to some of our registered users have been lost. We estimate approx. 500 user details are deleted.

To ease the process of recreating the user IDs we request members that have previously posted on the BR forums to recognise and identify their posts, once the posts are identified please contact the BRF moderator team by emailing BRF Mod Team with your post details.

The mod team will be able to update your username, email etc. so that the user history can be maintained.

Unfortunately for members that have never posted or have had all their posts deleted i.e. users that have 0 posts, we will be unable to recreate your account hence we request that you re-register again.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and thank you for your understanding.

Regards,
Seetal

Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Rakesh
Webmaster BR
Posts: 2808
Joined: 15 Jan 2004 12:31
Location: Planet Earth
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 04 Feb 2017 21:15

The story of how a bunch of youngsters with a never-say-die-attitude built their dream flying machine..
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/826285671199371265

Larger sized image of the photo in the above link...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3eNKs7UEAIBSPc.jpg:large

Prasant
BRFite
Posts: 745
Joined: 15 Jan 2008 03:10
Location: Londonistan/Nukkad

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Prasant » 05 Feb 2017 12:45

Even for a lifafa hack, this guy really pushes the envelope! :eek:
http://www.rediff.com/news/column/four- ... 160923.htm
Excerpts:
IAF logisticians, who already struggle to maintain, repair and support six different types of fighters -- the Sukhoi-30MKI, Mirage 2000, Jaguar, MiG-29, MiG-27, MiG-21 and the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft -- are hardly welcoming the prospect of a seventh fighter type, which would require expensive, tailor-made base infrastructure, repair depots and spare parts chains.

Air power experts say more Sukhoi-30MKIs would eliminate this need, besides being cheaper.

Alternatively, fast-tracking the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, which Russia and India intend to co-develop, would eliminate the need for Rafales.

Even if the IAF exercises an option clause for 18 more Rafales, there would be just three operational squadrons, like with the Mirage 2000.

Besides the options clause, nine more Rafales would be needed, since an IAF squadron has 21 fighters.

manjgu
BRFite
Posts: 1219
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby manjgu » 05 Feb 2017 13:23

the multiplicity of fighter types is an issue... though not sure if Mig 27 is still in operation..when does last of Mig 21 retire?

nirav
BRFite
Posts: 1561
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby nirav » 05 Feb 2017 14:49

Everyone except people from the IAF have a thing or two to say about the 'logistics' of multiple fighter types..

manjgu
BRFite
Posts: 1219
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby manjgu » 05 Feb 2017 17:51

nirav babu..do u seriously expect IAF to question GOI decisions !!

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 31890
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 05 Feb 2017 18:17

Well on BRF we, as a group speak with forked tongues. On the one hand the IAF cannot question GoI On the other hand the kickback seeking foreign import IAF will not implement what the GoI wants when a good nationalistic government is in power.

But let us forget the rhetoric. At any given time the IAF is operating anything between 15 and 20 different types.I had made a list on the types we have operated in an earlier thread. The "too many types" argument is also a rhetorical one that is used when convenient. Also - not to forget that apart from some basic commonality different MiG 21 variants like Bis and Bison are also different types requiring logistics of their own.

Too many types is a valid argument for Sri Lanka, Maldives or Nauru. Not India.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5234
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2017 05:13

HAL-BAE have done it. At AI'15, they had said that they will bring advanced/combat hawk to AI'17

REVEALED: The BAE-HAL Joint ‘Advanced Hawk’

Revealed exclusively here on Livefist before its formal unveiling later this month, this is the Advanced Hawk. A joint BAE Systems-Hindustan Aeronautics effort that elevates the proven Hawk jet trainer to a significantly more capable aircraft platform, closer in performance — both real and synthetic — to the fighters it trains pilots for. The 50-50 commercial project with equal risk by the two companies, funded internally over 24 months, has culminated with this single demonstrator aircraft that will be revealed for the first time at the Aero India show on Feb 14 outside Bengaluru.

The product will be jointly marketed by BAE Systems and HAL to existing and new potential customers across the world, with a projected market for at least 300 airframes over ten years, all or most of which will be built in and exported from India, with several Indian technologies and systems.

In details shared exclusively with Livefist, it appears clear that the Advanced Hawk is more than just a fine-tuning of the Hawk, but an upgrade that encompasses perhaps the first deep dive in years into what the Hawk stands for, beyond being just a lead-in fighter trainer.

The changes in the Advanced Hawk are significant. For instance, the Advanced Hawk sports HAL-led engineering tweaks to the aircraft’s wing — the addition of an active slat leading edge and an upgraded combat flap — which adds more flying envelope across the spectrum. Other changes, detailed in the schematic below, importantly include increased engine thrust on the Adour Mk.951, a smart weapons capability (which is probably why HAL has designated it the ‘Combat Hawk’ in internal communications), air-refueling and a brand new panoramic multi-display centered glass cockpit.

In a wide-ranging interaction with BAE Systems top leadership on the Hawk programme, including Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpey, former RAF chief and now senior military advisor at BAE, Livefist obtained the full picture on the first significant Indo-British joint aerospace effort in decades, one that looks to stimulate demand among existing trainer operators and capture markets looking to acquire the Hawk capability. The Indian military operates 123 Hawk Mk.132 jets that provide Stage-III training before pilots progress to operational fighters like the Mirage 2000, Su-30MKI, MiG-29 or Jaguar. We break down the Advanced Hawk effort:

1. The airframe used to demonstrate the Advanced Hawk is one of two development aircraft owned by BAE Systems. Engineering changes were made directly to the platform by BAE and HAL in the UK. The aircraft was then brought down to Yelahanka, where it will fly for the first time in its new trim shortly after the Aero India show.

2. BAE and HAL will look to stimulate demand for the Advanced Hawk not just among new customers, but to existing operators as well. India, one of the world’s largest operators of the Hawk, has begun receiving briefings from BAE-HAL on the projected advantages of inserting the Advanced Hawk into future training — as a possible step between the existing Hawk and high performance fighters. The principle advantage being projected is the ability to shift mandatory flying training on frontline fighters to the Advanced Hawk, saving costs and freeing up those fighters for operational tasks and extending their operational life. BAE officials said an internal study indicated at least 30% of current frontline training by the IAF could be downloaded to the cheaper Advanced Hawk with no loss of regimen or rigour. But there are challenges. Already saddled with high value acquisitions and a list of other priority platforms it needs (not to mention an existing Hawk fleet), it will be a hardsell stimulating demand within the Indian Air Force, certainly in the short term. On the other hand, the IAF’s training curriculum has been buffeted by flux over the last few years, and per force compressed with the absence of a ready intermediate trainer. Could a fleet of Hawks brought up to the Advanced Hawk standard simply accelerate the scrapping of intermediate training altogether?

“It’s like putting a Ferrari between a Mini and an Formula-1 car,” says Dave Corfield, head of Hawk India at BAE. The RAF’s Mk.128s can’t simulate the F-35 sensor environment, but the Advanced Hawk can, says Corfield, indicating an immediate market opportunity.

3. Apart from an expanded flying envelope that more physically mirrors the flying qualities of high performance fighters, a major part of the Advanced Hawk pitch is the synthetic fighter environment it simulates for frontline sensors and weapons. Air Chief Marshal Sir Glenn Torpy, who trained on the Hawk Mk.1, has flown in the new synthetic environment afforded by the new generation Hawks (including the Hawk Mk.128s in service with the RAF). “It’s a quantum leap,” Torpy tells Livefist. “Pilots don’t realise they don’t have a real radar or radar warning receiver. It’s very real.”

4. Importantly for India, the BAE-HAL effort seeks to plug fully into the Make In India thrust, making it likely that interest in the platform will directly mean more jobs in India and expanded business for the existing Indian supply chain. The Advanced Hawk, therefore, will make use of the existing Hawk production line in Bengaluru. BAE and HAL, which have both invested internal funds as part of a 2015 MoU, may escalate that into a joint venture or other commercial arrangement (subcontracting/licensing) to administer the Advanced Hawk programme. Depending on interest from customers, the Advanced Hawk could be built in India or the UK — or both. “There’s a low cost production line in India. This could be built in the UK, but it’s cheaper to build it here,” says Corfield.

5. HAL, which has unofficially designated this effort the ‘Combat Hawk’ so far, has done so for a reason. The Advanced Hawk is the first Hawk platform with a specific combat capability, a pitch that straddles both its capacity to simulate frontline weaponry, and also as a combat force multiplier by itself. With a beyond visual range and precision strike capability, several developing economies could see the Advanced Hawk as a combat platform by itself for close air support and so on.

6. The Indian contribution to the Advanced Hawk is tangible — way more than other so-called joint programmes. Apart from the wing re-design conducted by HAL, the new platform will also sport the slat actuation system from the LCA Tejas. The Advanced Hawk will also offer options for an Indian mission computer, secure comms, datalink and countermeasures systems. A Hawk oversight committee, comprising UK trade and industry and India’s Department of Defence Production have been discussing other areas of synergy in the programme. The group meets next after Aero India in Chennai at which point the Advanced Hawk team will have a clearer picture about global interest.

7. Existing Hawk customers will also be offered the opportunity to choose upgrade modules from the programme, or simply upgrade their fleets to the Advanced Hawk standard. Depending on the customer, BAE and HAL will jointly decide where such upgrades will take place.

Apart from the demonstrator airframe, BAE Systems will also be bringing a full mission simulator of the Advanced Hawk to Aero India this month.


Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5234
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2017 05:37

For me AI'07 was very good. Just the variety of foreign fighter aircrafts on display was great. But AI'17 is going to be such a great desi party. It will be a first for:

1. Serially produced LCA with full flight envelop opened
2. Serially produced LCH with full flight envelop opened
3. HTT-40
4. LUH
5. Combat Hawk
6. Hawk-i
7. Reborn SKAT
8. Darin III Jaguar

deejay
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3152
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 06 Feb 2017 15:39

I just watched some beautiful low level aeros by HTT 40 over HAL airfield in preparation of Aero India 2017. And if the sight was not enough the sound was music.

Very harsh sun in the background so this is the best I could capture on video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4VbaKcy658


sankum
BRFite
Posts: 502
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 06 Feb 2017 16:06


deejay
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 3152
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby deejay » 06 Feb 2017 16:09

sankum wrote:Mock-up of Indian Multi Role Helicopter (IMRH)will be on display
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/india/hal%E2%80%99s-debutant-stars-at-aero-india-mathrubhumi-jaguar-1.1710740


Great news this Sankum ji.

Bala Vignesh
BRFite
Posts: 1759
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bala Vignesh » 06 Feb 2017 17:01

Just wondering how much traction the Hawk-i will generate, both within india and outside??

JayS
BRFite
Posts: 1885
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 06 Feb 2017 18:15

3000kg Payload for C-Hawk. That's quite a lot. Guess it would be severely restricted with that kind of load.

But, say C-hawk is bought by a country other than India. Would HAL have same 50% share in the deal then..??

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1924
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 06 Feb 2017 18:51

Bala Vignesh wrote:Just wondering how much traction the Hawk-i will generate, both within india and outside??


For many of the smaller airforces, it is too expensive to have an AJT just for training. This is a nice bridge. Perhaps it's success could lead to HAL selling some Tejas too.

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 31890
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 06 Feb 2017 19:34

While the Brits are great at marketing rhetoric - the image below is a crucial one that illustrates how a part of the training that pilots receive on top end platforms can be given by the new Hawk avatar, reducing the need for Su-30s /Jags and other frontline platforms from having their airframe life consumed in training
Image

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5025
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 06 Feb 2017 19:39

This is a smart move by BAE-HAL and is a trend in western air forces as well. One reason why BAE and their partner Northrop Grumman withdrew the Hawk from the USAF's T-X was that the USAF created challenging performance requirements (Even the M-346 barely met some of those with modifications) that mimicked a light fighter than a traditional trainer. The idea behind that was to not only use the T-X as a trainer to transition pilots to fast jets but to also use it for training front line pilots and use it for aggressor and other such roles that demand performance. This is a smart way to manage annual budgets when operational requirements force you towards a medium to heavy fleet that will naturally cost more to sustain and fly as opposed to a single engine light-medium fleet.
Last edited by brar_w on 06 Feb 2017 20:05, edited 1 time in total.

Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57164
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2017 19:45

The syrians operate the L39 czech in cas role. If assad wins the war thats a potential customer. Russia will want to dump the yak130 and china their own ajt

shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 31890
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 06 Feb 2017 19:52

brar_w wrote: This is a smart way to manage annual budgets when operational requirements force you towards a medium to heavy fleet that will naturally cost more to sustain and fly as opposed to a single engine light-medium fleet.


Indeed and I think most jingo forumites probably don't realise that the cost of each sortie in a frontline fighter is significant and that pilots who convert to that frontline aircraft still need a period of training - some of which is generic to high performance aircraft and some are specific to that aircraft. I am no expert but I guess that handling inputs from radar and missile warnings are generic to every frontline fighter while doing fancy aerobatic moves in air combat or flying nap of the earth would be specific to Su-30 and Jag respectively. If that generic part of the training could be bumped off "backwards" into an "advanced fighter trainer" as the new Hawk is claimed to be - it saves cost and airframe life of a depleting air force. IMO That is apart from the useful COIN ability in a low threat environment

Cybaru
BRFite
Posts: 1753
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 06 Feb 2017 19:54

JayS wrote:3000kg Payload for C-Hawk. That's quite a lot. Guess it would be severely restricted with that kind of load.

But, say C-hawk is bought by a country other than India. Would HAL have same 50% share in the deal then..??


Its kinda like the hawk 200 features built into the hawk 132 to make it easier to sell more to Indian forces at the moment. It might not be a bad bet for low level CAS work and might be cheap enough to operate to allow for a few units to get converted to this. Downside is no radar, but in an awacs environment, this could do significant damage.

The need for refueling probe on all aircrafts is a total overkill IMO. It's good to have feature if needed, but will not be necessary in a large portion of hawk ops even for COIN/CAS.

Whats the ferry range on these puppies? If it's lightly loaded (Recon pod/lasing equipment), how long can it remain in air holding its assigned sector?

Bala Vignesh
BRFite
Posts: 1759
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bala Vignesh » 06 Feb 2017 20:07

Cybaru wrote:
The need for refueling probe on all aircrafts is a total overkill IMO. It's good to have feature if needed, but will not be necessary in a large portion of hawk ops even for COIN/CAS.

Helps it in CAS actually.. Take off with full weapons load and then refuel enroute to target.. With a limited amount of thrust this would be a good way of maximising the attack capability of the bird.. Plus it also helps in getting a grasp on the nuances of in flight refuelling at a much earlier stage without straining the front line machine.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5025
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 06 Feb 2017 20:08

It also helps if you are going to train for longer missions on this upgraded Hawk...You still need to train pilots to do IFR and once trained need to provide them training to maintain competency.

Cybaru
BRFite
Posts: 1753
Joined: 12 Jun 2000 11:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 06 Feb 2017 20:13

Sure, good points bala and brar. It might be just cheaper to have these birds take from forward airbases and save a lot of time scheduling in flight refueling. Not sure if it makes sense in the western theater where these are more likely to be used. If you need IFR, might be cheaper to task an MKI to the target.

Yeah, agreed, cheaper to train for IFR on this bird vs a dual engine fuel guzzler.

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5025
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 06 Feb 2017 20:15

shiv wrote:
brar_w wrote: This is a smart way to manage annual budgets when operational requirements force you towards a medium to heavy fleet that will naturally cost more to sustain and fly as opposed to a single engine light-medium fleet.


Indeed and I think most jingo forumites probably don't realise that the cost of each sortie in a frontline fighter is significant and that pilots who convert to that frontline aircraft still need a period of training - some of which is generic to high performance aircraft and some are specific to that aircraft. I am no expert but I guess that handling inputs from radar and missile warnings are generic to every frontline fighter while doing fancy aerobatic moves in air combat or flying nap of the earth would be specific to Su-30 and Jag respectively. If that generic part of the training could be bumped off "backwards" into an "advanced fighter trainer" as the new Hawk is claimed to be - it saves cost and airframe life of a depleting air force. IMO That is apart from the useful COIN ability in a low threat environment


Yes it makes a lot of sense as operational requirements drive combat aircraft performance higher and higher..Mission systems are going to be simulated and LVC (Live Virtual Construct) is and will be playing a big role here. If you are developing a variant from scratch you wan't to develop its avionics suite broad enough so that it can simulate the mission systems of your primary aircraft, and has the training solution that can be modified to simulate both a particular training environment or a accept future threats through LVC.

JayS
BRFite
Posts: 1885
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 06 Feb 2017 20:18

^^ Yep, there are bunch of benefits of having IFR. And if you don't need it, just remove it.

Let's see how much of those BAe-HAL can sell.

Manish_P
BRFite
Posts: 576
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Manish_P » 06 Feb 2017 20:19

While the Brits are great at marketing rhetoric


Very well put, Sir.

HDR photos, Slick presentations, Co development/marketing jargon

If only the LCA chaps had hired them... but no, all they wanted and did was to quietly make one heck of a nifty little fighter

JTull
BRFite
Posts: 1924
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JTull » 06 Feb 2017 22:00

IFR capable trainer can help introduce the pilots to it earlier. Why delay it to squadron service?

Added: I am a little bit peeved at how HAL is able to qualify Hawk for IFR is such a short time but is talking about 6 months schedule for qualifying LCA besides a long wait for the probe from Cobham and integration delays. Surely, LCA's requirements were known long before AI-15 when Hawk-i was announced.

Bala Vignesh
BRFite
Posts: 1759
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bala Vignesh » 06 Feb 2017 22:16

JTull wrote:
Added: I am a little bit peeved at how HAL is able to qualify Hawk for IFR is such a short time but is talking about 6 months schedule for qualifying LCA besides a long wait for the probe from Cobham and integration delays. Surely, LCA's requirements were known long before AI-15 when Hawk-i was announced.


Probably the magic of BAe!!

Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57164
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 06 Feb 2017 22:19

Nobody but usaf has enough refuelers for a all out war needing 100s of fighters and heavies to be refueled daily.
Around 120 to 150 range in c135 and md11. Even then there are priorities . B2 or b1 missions from midwest to africa and back need 5 refuelings and 2 weeks of paperwork to line them up

Europe nato can scrape together about 20
Russia not much more
India 6
China 500 per plaboard

Ifr should not be a worry for fighters now
All our major bases are in easy range of targets

brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5025
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby brar_w » 06 Feb 2017 22:42

You definitely do not need 2 weeks of lining fuelres up or MP . There are contingency scenarios that are developed and even war gamed and the current tanker dispersal provides for those. Of course if you need to come up with a sustained plan for a contingency you do not plan for or fund then it will be a different matter but global strike mission is important enough that they maintain such a capability for most mission sets.

As far as Indian fighter requiring IFR, as long as there is a requirement to train pilots, it makes sense to build and maintain skills on a lower cost platform and the same when offering it in the export market.

Added: I am a little bit peeved at how HAL is able to qualify Hawk for IFR is such a short time but is talking about 6 months schedule for qualifying LCA besides a long wait for the probe from Cobham and integration delays. Surely, LCA's requirements were known long before AI-15 when Hawk-i was announced.


BAE has done work on IFR before and I bet have tried, modeled or actually flown numerous configurations.

Image
Last edited by brar_w on 06 Feb 2017 23:04, edited 1 time in total.

Cosmo_R
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3142
Joined: 24 Apr 2010 01:24

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 06 Feb 2017 23:01

JTull wrote:....

Added: I am a little bit peeved at how HAL is able to qualify Hawk for IFR is such a short time but is talking about 6 months schedule for qualifying LCA besides a long wait for the probe from Cobham and integration delays. Surely, LCA's requirements were known long before AI-15 when Hawk-i was announced.


HAL is trying to stay relevant. This CH stuff is nice but given that IAF needs 200-300 fighters, this is a diversion in resource terms. They would be far better off showing how they are totally focused on getting the LCA out in numbers.

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 502
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 06 Feb 2017 23:11

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake · 7h7 hours ago
And, here is the artistic image of #IMRH released by HAL.


Image

sankum
BRFite
Posts: 502
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 21:45

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sankum » 06 Feb 2017 23:13

IMRH is a derivative of Mi17?

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5234
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2017 23:15

JayS wrote:3000kg Payload for C-Hawk. That's quite a lot. Guess it would be severely restricted with that kind of load.

That caught my eye too. Yak 130 with twice the power can carry the same payload. Besides, I would guess that the the wingtips can only carry CCMs. That means the remaining 5 can carry ~2700 kgs. That's a little "out of the park". The heaviest loads that it can carry are 130 gallon fuel tanks and 1000 lb bombs. That counts up to about ~2300 kgs for 5 pylons. So, how does one carry 3000 kgs on this aircraft?

Deejay, thanks for that video!

Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 18569
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 06 Feb 2017 23:18

IMRH looks close to Mi-38 then Mi-17 design

Lalmohan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12386
Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Lalmohan » 06 Feb 2017 23:19

^^^ an aviation journalist once wrote that western manufacturers tend to quote max weight, whereas Russians quote operational load out - that explains the general difference in the figures. possibly true here as well... 3k kgs is a lot for a little hawk

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5234
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 06 Feb 2017 23:41

Please move the IMRH discussions to the heli thread. Link.

NRao
BRF Oldie
Posts: 15385
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Illini Nation

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 07 Feb 2017 00:28

Cosmo_R wrote:
JTull wrote:....

Added: I am a little bit peeved at how HAL is able to qualify Hawk for IFR is such a short time but is talking about 6 months schedule for qualifying LCA besides a long wait for the probe from Cobham and integration delays. Surely, LCA's requirements were known long before AI-15 when Hawk-i was announced.


HAL is trying to stay relevant. This CH stuff is nice but given that IAF needs 200-300 fighters, this is a diversion in resource terms. They would be far better off showing how they are totally focused on getting the LCA out in numbers.


The LCA numbers need a boost no matter what.

At the same time oen cannot take their eyes of products such as this plane. It could, and actually must, add value as an export. India needs funds from outside India to keep that MIC moving along.

Then there are the other benefits: marketing, sales, support, supply chain (abroad too), etc.

This development is great.

Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 5234
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 07 Feb 2017 05:44

I just noticed that the HTT-40 has lost the horn balance on the rudder. This is in addition to losing the servo tab that I had discussed before. So, at the very least, the plane is responsive in the yaw axis.

Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1455
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 07 Feb 2017 06:14

This C-HAWK idea is a British dream of pulling another gnat on poor India.

On top of that all IP is still being retained by BAe. It has option for INDIAN components, meaning not necessarily a model built with INDIAN partnership.

But Hawk-I is a HAL product, something to be considered for current fleet of AJT.

Singha
Forum Moderator
Posts: 57164
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: I stood eye to eye with The Beast and he told me everything...

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 07 Feb 2017 06:26

When b1s struck south libya in the war to depose
Qadhafi i read they needed 2 weeks to line up the
Tankers


Return to “Military Issues & History Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Pratyush, sanjayc, zoverian and 20 guests