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Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby mridulmm » 01 Mar 2017 15:16

DON'T MISS: Model of an early iteration from India's Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle (UCAV) program undergoing RCS tests.
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status/836867360871055363

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 02 Mar 2017 03:35

DelhiDefence Twitter link

IJT spin tests are still ongoing. Expected to be done this year hopefully. No definite timelines since it will take 40/50 tests or so

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 02 Mar 2017 12:13

IJT: "Spin it again Sam!"

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Prasad » 02 Mar 2017 13:32

That is what an ARDC gent said btw fwiw.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Rakesh » 04 Mar 2017 23:05

Watch Robert Schoeffling of Boeing Defense Military Aircraft talk
about the KC-46 'combat tanker' development and their offer to India.
https://twitter.com/StratPost/status/837569497200373761

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 05 Mar 2017 14:42

Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



I took out all the juicy info from the video and wrote it down. Here it is (my comments in brackets):
- HTT-40 is a Basic Trainer aircraft being developed by HAL for Indian Forces and other customers.
- The project is entirely funded by HAL internally. Close to 500 Cr are being invested.
- The project was started in 2013. Detailed design was finished within 2 year, by August 2015. There onwards, the prototype was built and first flight took in merely 11 months, on 31th May 2016. (This is an incredible achievement by any standards.!) The target it to get HTT-40 certified fully by 2018.
- The "Team HTT-40" is the youngest team in HAL ever with average age of 0nly 30yrs. Its unusual for HAL to have such young team handling the entire project.
- Level of indigenisation: Out of 90 LRU, 75% comes from various HAL divisions, 15% come from Private sector and 10% are imported, mainly the Engine and the ejection seat.
- All-Metal aircraft (to keep cost as well as development time low). Use of Composites might be consider later on to cut the weight if need be.
- One key point in cutting down the development and manufacturing time is the high level of participation from local MSME and private players. Out of 4500 parts, 3000parts are fabricated by local MSME. Second point is, a lot of LRU are reused from existing projects. The project was more of system integration rather than inventing anything new, rather used COTS, fly the aircraft as soon as possible. Changes, plug-ins can be added later on.
- Extensive involvement of Certification Agencies CEMILAC, RDAQA, FlightOps right from Day 1. So the team never really faced a challenge on this front (A very good sign for Indian projects). Very young teams from these agencies participating in HTT-40 certification
- Extensive wind tunnel testing was done. Close to 700 test cases were taken up to fine tune the aircraft shape. Spin and Stall tests being done at ONERA, France to map the spin characteristics mapping. The test results are satisfactory and by middle of 2017 HAL is going to carry out stall and spin flight tests. Learnings from IJT experience incorporated in this efforts. (HAL has learnt a lesson from IJT-36 Sitara project and thus would like to get these crucial tests much ahead in the flight test program. A good indicator).
- Engine: Turboprop engine Honeywell TPE-331-12B having 1100 shp, fairly modular design. Commonality with D0-228 aircraft manufactured by HAL currently. (Excellent choice to use common engine with existing aircraft. HAL must be quite familiar with the engine already). Entire engine interface was worked on with Honeywell to speed up integration process. Recovery factor of 99.1% achieved for this particular type of engine-intake combination, which is highest in this class.
- Propeller: 4-bladed Aluminum propeller by M/s Hurtzell
- It uses Martin-Baker MK16A Zero-Zero Ejection seat which is better than the competitor (the PC7 MKII currently used by IAF) which uses Zero-Sixty Ejection seat (0 altitude, 90kmph minimum speed).
- Max speed = 450 kmph (240 knots)
- Operational ceiling = 6000 m (20000 ft)
- Climb rate = 6 m/s (20 ft/s)
- G-limit: +6/-2.5
- Price tag: INR 42 Crore (~ $ 6.2 M) Cheapest in the category
- Retractable undercarriage
- Wing dihedral of 6° and small twist (washout) for better stability and helping it in better recovery in stall and spin maneuvers.
- Total 3 prototype aircrafts and 2 static test specimens for ground testing. Prototypes are labeled as TSR, in honor of HAL Chairman T Suvarna Raju who has thrown his weight behind the project and gave all the support and freedom to the team. The Phoenix bird painted on TSR002 symbolizes the rising of HTT-40 from the ashes of HPT-32 Deepak which was grounded by the IAF. Also symbolizes the hardship to get the project going in existing environment (No initial support from the IAF, HAL went ahead with the project on its own).
- Weaponised version of HTT-40 is planned, mainly keeping the export in mind. A 12.5mm gun, 250lb, 500lb bombs planned to be integrated and make the aircraft ready for CAS and Recce role. Since cost of flying per hr for HTT-40 is fairly lower than weaponised helicopter or dedicated fighter, it has economic advantage here. Weaponisation would start once the Stall and Spin tests are finished.
- Tandem cockpit design. Front for the Trainee and back seat for the Trainer. Both cockpit are similar, except that the Trainer can override controls from the back cockpit.
- Entire glass-cockpit. 3 smart MFD - 6"x8" MFD, 5"x7" ECAS, standby instrument disply, GPS. Can be upgrades to have HUD and cater for weaponised platform. Planning to add one more display so that it could replicate a front end fighter. Thus systems training time from a front end fighter (~30% of total training time) can be carried out on HTT-40, reducing valuable airframe time on the costly fighters. It has got HOTAS in it with the intention of integrating weapons sooner or later.
- 50th Flight during Aero India 2017 (within 8 months from 1st flight). Milestones completed include - Max Altitude, Top Speed, Full G-envelop, 360° Roll, Inverted Flight. For spin tests, Spin Recovery Parachute, called as Anti-Spin Gantry, to be attached to ( one of the?) prototypes.
- Confirmed orders of 70 aircrafts which are planned to be delivered to IAF by 2021. (Total expected order of 106 for IAF).
- 30-40 years life span expected with IAF.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 05 Mar 2017 15:43

very impressed. cant be all that easy to get a thing on which a pilots life depends if anyone makes mistakes. the two cockpits alone must be plenty of work to integrate things and make all functions work.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 07 Mar 2017 02:47

Looks like the end of the road is very near for the HJT-36 Sitara

From DelhiDefence's twitter

The Department of Defence Production has accepted the Indian Air force's request to 'foreclose' the case for HAL's Intermediate Jet Trainer

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 04:58

^^^^^

Very sad!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 07 Mar 2017 05:08

Kartik wrote:Looks like the end of the road is very near for the HJT-36 Sitara

From DelhiDefence's twitter

The Department of Defence Production has accepted the Indian Air force's request to 'foreclose' the case for HAL's Intermediate Jet Trainer

HAL should complete the development of IJT and not can the design.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby sum » 07 Mar 2017 05:51

^^ So all those planned spin tests etc are now abandoned?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 07 Mar 2017 06:08

sum wrote:^^ So all those planned spin tests etc are now abandoned?



Could be a pre-emptive strike by IAF to prevent them becoming customers.

But abandoning the plane will be blow to Make In India.

Lets see how it turns out.
Having spent the funds already they should complete the tests.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ragupta » 07 Mar 2017 06:35

Actually if HAL has complete control over HJT-36 and has to use internal resources. It will avoid HAL going for every time to MOD for approval or every requirement. HAL would be making tons of money to fund and make use of that fund to develop project.
HJT-36 is low cost project, they should complete and sell it to international customer. I am sure there will be sufficient market at that price point.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Sid » 07 Mar 2017 10:45

An investigation should be ordered on IJT. How a project which first flew in 2003 suddenly turned south after 2008.

First that incorrect engine selection, who influenced it and why no corrective steps were taken.

Second just why after 2009, when LSP started, it is still in trials with no solution in sight.

This is just criminal neglect and huge waste of public trust and money.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2017 10:58

Singha wrote:weaponised pmu drone takes down a lone rat with a near miss
https://twitter.com/IraqiSecurity/statu ... 4815067136

how long before our desi jihadis get this ? everyone is using it in levant war now. BEl/LRDE had better be producing a deploying drone jammers around all vital infra in the country ASAP :evil:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby rohitvats » 07 Mar 2017 11:15

Kartik wrote:Looks like the end of the road is very near for the HJT-36 Sitara

From DelhiDefence's twitter

The Department of Defence Production has accepted the Indian Air force's request to 'foreclose' the case for HAL's Intermediate Jet Trainer


:(

This was ONE home-grown product I was rooting for from heart! What a great thing it would have been for rookie pilots to train on a domestic product and see first hand what India is capable of. With both HTT-40 and IJT-36, generations of IAF pilots would've been exposed to Indian systems from their initial, impressionable days.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Pratyush » 07 Mar 2017 11:19

If the sitara gets cancelled, which aircraft will meet the intermediate training needs of the IAF.

Of is the IAF thinking about having a 2 stage training curriculum. With high performance turbo props meeting beginners and intermediate training needs and the hawk meeting advanced training needs.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 07 Mar 2017 11:26

Even if not operationalized, IJT needs to be taken to completion. It is the stepping stone to our next IJT and AJT. Otherwise, we will be importing our next generation of jet trainers as well.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 07 Mar 2017 12:03

The problem appears to be a flawed design and HAL unable with its limited design capability to rectify the defect. It sought intl. help.Why that failed too is a moot point. When it appeared as if by magic some years ago,were thrilled at the speed with which it appeared. Now that it has been canned,and even if funds are brought forth either by the MOD or HAL itself,it is going to take a lot more time to redesign,rebuild and retest the bird, and you can take your pick when it will be certified and enters prod. To keep the trg. regime running smoothly without a hitch,the IAF now has to either acquire a new IJT from abroad,or revise its training regime as many forces have done using only two aircraft. Here,sev. air forces use the highly rated PC-21 which can simulate the characteristics of sev. jet fighters. Perhaps this is the easiest answer,rookie pilots graduating from PC-7s and HTT-40s to PC-21s and then onto Hawks.

Options for an IJT? The Czech L-39NG? L-139s,proven light attack/tr bird? The Iraqi AF uses them.My fav would be an even more capable (than the Hawk) Yak-130,which has excellent light attack capabilities too. It can simulate all top-end Ru fighters incl. trg. for the fGFA.Just $15M a pop,even cheaper than a Hawk which costs $18M! The basic Hawk could then be the IJT for the IAF.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Manish_P » 07 Mar 2017 14:07

the basic Hawk could then be the IJT for the IAF.


I am sorry, i do not follow the logic

Are you saying that the Hawk can become the IJT if and only if (and as soon as) we buy another trainer aircraft ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 07 Mar 2017 17:02

rohitvats wrote:
Kartik wrote:Looks like the end of the road is very near for the HJT-36 Sitara

From DelhiDefence's twitter



:(

This was ONE home-grown product I was rooting for from heart! What a great thing it would have been for rookie pilots to train on a domestic product and see first hand what India is capable of. With both HTT-40 and IJT-36, generations of IAF pilots would've been exposed to Indian systems from their initial, impressionable days.


+1

I think HAL should have bitten the bullet and have gone for major redesign of the wing 2-3yrs ago. To me they waited and hoped too long to sort the spin issue with some small change without major rework. They could have pursued both paths for a while and they down-select the most promising one. Now they have ran out of options and time both. Hope they still continue and finish the project. It would be a great learning experience for HAL as an organisation. Even if IAF doesn't buy it, they can always look out for export order. With HTT-40, IJT, and Advanced hawk, they could offer one-stop destination for full spectrum of training solution to any AF.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 07 Mar 2017 17:31

HAL has enough money to easily continue and complete this project to build skills and data banks.
nobody sells design skills and data banks.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby vina » 07 Mar 2017 17:37

JayS wrote:. Even if IAF doesn't buy it, they can always look out for export order. With HTT-40, IJT, and Advanced hawk, they could offer one-stop destination for full spectrum of training solution to any AF.


Mercifully better sense prevailed and they are canning the IJT project. Basically it is this. The entire IJT Concept is obsolete. It is a dawg, and is not needed. The world has moved to 2 stage training. There is no market anywhere in the world for the IJT.

What has basically happened is this. The HTT-40 has killed the IJT. With the HTT -40 coming in (it is a higher specced plane than the PC-7, it is PC-21 or better class), you don't need the IJT anymore.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 07 Mar 2017 19:41


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby jamwal » 07 Mar 2017 20:28

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 519906.cms

After Viraat, Navy to bid adieu to Albatross patrol aircraft

Another iconic naval platform is now set for retirement after aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft, which helped the force keep a hawk-eye on enemy warships and submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) for almost 30 years, will be decommissioned later this month.
The world's largest and fastest turboprop aircraft, aptly named the 'Albatross,' the Navy had inducted eight TU-142Ms since 1988. "They were the backbone of our long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) and anti-submarine warfare operations. But only three are fully operational now. They will now be retired at the naval air station INS Rajali in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu at a ceremony on March 29," said an officer.
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft- eight have already been inducted- acquired from the US for $3.2 billion. Packed with radars and armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, rockets and depth charges to destroy enemy submarines, the Navy also operates the P-8Is from INS Rajali.
The fuel-guzzling TU-142M aircraft were the first true LRMR of the Indian Navy. With a 50-metre wing-span and a combat radius of 6,500-km, the TU-142M has a speed of around 850 kmph. "They also have the highest flying altitude among turboprops, with an operational ceiling of over 13,000 metre," said an officer.
With a 10-member crew, the TU-142Ms can also carry at least five torpedoes as well as free-fall bombs and depth charges. "But the sensors and weapon systems of TU-142Ms have become outdated with age, apart from requiring heavy maintenance and costly spare parts," said an officer.
"If the TU-142Ms were hawk-eyes, the P-8Is are far more potent intelligent hawk-eyes," he added. This comes in the backdrop of Chinese submarines, both conventional as well as nuclear, making forays into the IOR on a regular basis now, with an operational turnaround at Karachi, as was earlier reported by TOI.


Much like the TU-142Ms earlier, the P-8Is now work in conjunction with medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft like the IL-38s and Israeli Searcher-II and Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to establish a three-tier surveillance grid in IOR.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 07 Mar 2017 21:05

vina wrote:
JayS wrote:. Even if IAF doesn't buy it, they can always look out for export order. With HTT-40, IJT, and Advanced hawk, they could offer one-stop destination for full spectrum of training solution to any AF.


Mercifully better sense prevailed and they are canning the IJT project. Basically it is this. The entire IJT Concept is obsolete. It is a dawg, and is not needed. The world has moved to 2 stage training. There is no market anywhere in the world for the IJT.

What has basically happened is this. The HTT-40 has killed the IJT. With the HTT -40 coming in (it is a higher specced plane than the PC-7, it is PC-21 or better class), you don't need the IJT anymore.


Soon it will be a single plane doing all, right from training to fighting. And I don't mean by one type. Like single aircraft. :lol:

Wasn't there some report which said USAF would be able to afford only one aircraft in 2050 or something.

On serious note, don't think IAF has quite buying IJT. Its just they don't want IJT anymore since its not coming anytime soon. IAF might as well go elsewhere shopping.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ramana » 07 Mar 2017 22:11

^^^ Once HAL's IJT is canned by MoD , they will revive the need for IJT at appropriate time.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Vivek K » 07 Mar 2017 22:16

This may be off topic but can anyone tell me about the the Institute of Aeronautical Engineering, Hyderabad and how is its Engineering Program rated?

Thanks.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 07 Mar 2017 23:18

Philip wrote:Options for an IJT? The Czech L-39NG? L-139s,proven light attack/tr bird? The Iraqi AF uses them.My fav would be an even more capable (than the Hawk) Yak-130,which has excellent light attack capabilities too. It can simulate all top-end Ru fighters incl. trg. for the fGFA.Just $15M a pop,even cheaper than a Hawk which costs $18M! The basic Hawk could then be the IJT for the IAF.


First wife not dead, only in hospital to get fixed up. Are you already out shopping for the next one? :rotfl:

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby vina » 08 Mar 2017 11:08

ramana wrote:^^^ Once HAL's IJT is canned by MoD , they will revive the need for IJT at appropriate time.


No. The age of the IJTs is past. Even the US replaced the T-37 Tweet with the T-6 Texan II. The went from a straight wing twin jet trainer (the T37 is like our HAL Kiran / BAC Provost) to a Turbo Prop (Pilatus 9 derivative) trainer. Even the Brits did the same, by going to the Shorts Tucano trainer. Really the IJT was a concept whose time was over. The IAF would have bought it cos the PC-7 they got is really a watered down version good for ab initio roles.

When the HTT-34 came on board and started flying around, and it is specced to Super Tucano / PC 21 level equivalent, there is no reason to develop and induct a more expensive IJT. Finally someone in the IAF is thinking straight. Expect the IJT money to go towards HTT-34.

The IAF too like other forces is going to go the abinitio - turbo prop and AJT route , with a lot of even the AJT stuff migrating to the cheaper turbo props.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 08 Mar 2017 12:28

vina wrote:
ramana wrote:^^^ Once HAL's IJT is canned by MoD , they will revive the need for IJT at appropriate time.


No. The age of the IJTs is past. Even the US replaced the T-37 Tweet with the T-6 Texan II. The went from a straight wing twin jet trainer (the T37 is like our HAL Kiran / BAC Provost) to a Turbo Prop (Pilatus 9 derivative) trainer. Even the Brits did the same, by going to the Shorts Tucano trainer. Really the IJT was a concept whose time was over. The IAF would have bought it cos the PC-7 they got is really a watered down version good for ab initio roles.

When the HTT-34 came on board and started flying around, and it is specced to Super Tucano / PC 21 level equivalent, there is no reason to develop and induct a more expensive IJT. Finally someone in the IAF is thinking straight. Expect the IJT money to go towards HTT-34.

The IAF too like other forces is going to go the abinitio - turbo prop and AJT route , with a lot of even the AJT stuff migrating to the cheaper turbo props.


But is this your assumption/conclusion that IAF is not gonna buy IJT anymore.? Where does the tweet or any other source say so..?? It simply says IAF wants to close case on *HAL's* IJT. Do you have any source saying IAF is scrapping the idea of IJT altogether and we will not see a RFQ floated 1-2yrs down the line for IJT..?

When did IAF went by what exactly is USAF or RAF is doing..?? By that logic IAF should not be asking for a Medium fighter today, because USAF doesn't have that concept nor does any other airforce.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby K_Rohit » 08 Mar 2017 12:59

jamwal wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/after-viraat-navy-to-bid-adieu-to-albatross-patrol-aircraft/articleshow/57519906.cms

After Viraat, Navy to bid adieu to Albatross patrol aircraft

Another iconic naval platform is now set for retirement after aircraft carrier INS Viraat. The Soviet-origin Tupolev-142M aircraft, which helped the force keep a hawk-eye on enemy warships and submarines in the Indian Ocean Region (IOR) for almost 30 years, will be decommissioned later this month.
The world's largest and fastest turboprop aircraft, aptly named the 'Albatross,' the Navy had inducted eight TU-142Ms since 1988. "They were the backbone of our long-range maritime reconnaissance (LRMR) and anti-submarine warfare operations. But only three are fully operational now. They will now be retired at the naval air station INS Rajali in Arakkonam in Tamil Nadu at a ceremony on March 29," said an officer.
The TU-142Ms are being replaced by the 12 Poseidon-8I long-range patrol aircraft- eight have already been inducted- acquired from the US for $3.2 billion. Packed with radars and armed with deadly Harpoon Block-II missiles, MK-54 lightweight torpedoes, rockets and depth charges to destroy enemy submarines, the Navy also operates the P-8Is from INS Rajali.
The fuel-guzzling TU-142M aircraft were the first true LRMR of the Indian Navy. With a 50-metre wing-span and a combat radius of 6,500-km, the TU-142M has a speed of around 850 kmph. "They also have the highest flying altitude among turboprops, with an operational ceiling of over 13,000 metre," said an officer.
With a 10-member crew, the TU-142Ms can also carry at least five torpedoes as well as free-fall bombs and depth charges. "But the sensors and weapon systems of TU-142Ms have become outdated with age, apart from requiring heavy maintenance and costly spare parts," said an officer.
"If the TU-142Ms were hawk-eyes, the P-8Is are far more potent intelligent hawk-eyes," he added. This comes in the backdrop of Chinese submarines, both conventional as well as nuclear, making forays into the IOR on a regular basis now, with an operational turnaround at Karachi, as was earlier reported by TOI.


Much like the TU-142Ms earlier, the P-8Is now work in conjunction with medium-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft like the IL-38s and Israeli Searcher-II and Heron UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles) to establish a three-tier surveillance grid in IOR.



Sad end to a magnificent flying machine. I thought they would be upgraded and serve alongside the P8s. Brings into question, dont we need more P8s?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 08 Mar 2017 13:37

P8 is costly. Idea is lock down the issue with cheaper mrmp like c295 and do228.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 08 Mar 2017 14:35

JayS wrote: It simply says IAF wants to close case on *HAL's* IJT. Do you have any source saying IAF is scrapping the idea of IJT altogether and we will not see a RFQ floated 1-2yrs down the line for IJT..?

I would not write the IJTs epitaph just yet.

The air force speaks with multiple voices when it comes to feeding the media. Every air force officer is a "source close to the Air Force" and the media are also not paragons of virtue and a lot of shit gets reported as space fillers. As regards what the DoD says according to nameless soucres to some media person, the less said the better.

I cannot forget that Khadi Gramodyog/Latest Confusion in Aeronautics is coming into squadron service now.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 08 Mar 2017 15:55

shiv wrote:I would not write the IJTs epitaph just yet.

The air force speaks with multiple voices when it comes to feeding the media. Every air force officer is a "source close to the Air Force" and the media are also not paragons of virtue and a lot of shit gets reported as space fillers. As regards what the DoD says according to nameless soucres to some media person, the less said the better.

I cannot forget that Khadi Gramodyog/Latest Confusion in Aeronautics is coming into squadron service now.


I wouldn't too. I am taking the DDR tweet at as just another report and I wouldn't stretch it more than that.

Even if IAF has sent a note to MoD to close the case on IJT, MoD will take its onw sweet time to take final decision on that and then some more time to issue new RFQ/RFI for new IJT if IAF wants to buy one. Meanwhile IJT Sitara can finish its spin test successfully. Its possible. I just wish HAL had bitten the bullet some time ago and had started on wing redesign. Starting early production didn't help either. That must have increased their quandary. Sometimes to go forward you have to go one step back. But good thing is HAL has learnt its lesson.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby vina » 08 Mar 2017 17:30

JayS wrote:But is this your assumption/conclusion that IAF is not gonna buy IJT anymore.?

Yes. My assumption .
Do you have any source saying IAF is scrapping the idea of IJT altogether and we will not see a RFQ floated 1-2yrs down the line for IJT..?

No, I don't. But the IAF can't buy any other IJT after 2 years,becuase there isn't one available. Do name one IJT that the IAF can buy (the than Sitara). All the planes I see are AJTs and we already have the Hawk .(In fact Philip's idea about L-39 can't work for that reason. It is an AJT comparable to the Hawk. The Yak 130, the Aeramachhi etc. are all AJTs). The only plane that is possibly a fit is the K-8/Karakorum. Somehow I have a feeling that the IAF is not going to import a Chinese/Pakistani trainer.

When did IAF went by what exactly is USAF or RAF is doing..?? By that logic IAF should not be asking for a Medium fighter today, because USAF doesn't have that concept nor does any other airforce.

That is the only logic available and that is dictated by technological advance. The IJTs is a concept past it's sell by date. The world has moved past and it is turbo props filling the IJT role for the past decade and a half .Welcome to the brave new world!

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 09 Mar 2017 21:08

via TOI

Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Neela » 09 Mar 2017 21:30

Isn't one advantage of home grown IJTs is to have custom MFDs to replicate a LCA or M2K or Jaguar?
Can the same be done with Hawks?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Neela » 09 Mar 2017 22:52

Looks like MoD isn't too pleased with IJT's place either


Interesting last line.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby chola » 10 Mar 2017 02:31

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/after-sukhoi-mistake-india-to-go-for-russian-5th-gen-fighter-only-with-full-tech-transfer/articleshow/57546519.cms

After Sukhoi 'mistake', India to go for Russian 5th-generation fighter only on full-tech transfer pact
Rajat Pandit | TNN | Updated: Mar 9, 2017, 05.24AM IST

India will go in for the multi-billion dollar joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) with Russia only if there is full-scale transfer of technology as well as "benefits" for the indigenous effort to build a futuristic stealth fighter.
Defence ministry sources say this decision has been taken at the "highest levels" in order to "not repeat the mistakes" of the entire Sukhoi-30MKI jet acquisition programme from Russia, which cost India Rs 55,717 crore without any tangible help in developing indigenous fighter-manufacturing capabilities.

"Though bulk of the 272 Sukhois (240 inducted till now) contracted from Russia have been made by Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL), they have been basically assembled here with imported knocked-down kits. HAL still cannot manufacture the Sukhois on its own," said a source. A HAL-made Sukhoi (around Rs 450 crore) also costs Rs 100 crore more than the price of the same jet imported from Russia.



Compare this to the half-dozen chini Flanker clone models that the our russki "friends" allowed the PRC to build with full support (continued sales of engines and the SU-35.)

Do you think we'll learn our goddam lesson?


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