Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Zynda
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Zynda »

I thought this talk would be more suitable here although it could be appropriate in R&D thread as well. Good talk about design evolution of F-14A/B Tomcat fighter by an ex-Northrop Grumman fella. Highlights some of the challenges and approaches for design choices...good talk to watch for both practising & enthusiasts alike.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by NRao »

My fav plane.

At around 43 mins the test plane crashes at a very low kevel. One pilot clears the flames. The other actually chuts down into the flame. But the flames were so hot that the flames blow him back up and the wind clears him of the flame and both pilots survive!!
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Philip »

What about the famous Paris Air Show crashes of the Flanker? Proving the effectiveness of the Ru ejector seat.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by brar_w »

Zynda wrote:I thought this talk would be more suitable here although it could be appropriate in R&D thread as well. Good talk about design evolution of F-14A/B Tomcat fighter by an ex-Northrop Grumman fella. Highlights some of the challenges and approaches for design choices...good talk to watch for both practising & enthusiasts alike.
The couple does a great job of filming and recording the talks held at the Western museum of flight in Southern California. I've posted this before in the Multi-Media/Int. threads but their Tony Chong video is also great, and the YF-23 one is a must watch as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpkv1ErWIf8
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Austin »

‘Not enough fighter jets is akin to playing cricket with just 7 players’: Air Chief Marshal B S Dhanoa flags concern

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... e-4710860/
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Philip »

Since the IAF chief has expressed his views so clearly,then the top priority must be to get those "4 missing players!" Now how do you do that effectively,with capable fighters at reasonable cost? The nation is in an acute economic downturn,no matter what the spin-doctors say,personal savings % down about 10% from UPA days,GST with greater taxes imminent,and $200M Rafales are an extravagance than we cannot afford. Long pats time to cut our coat according to the cloth.

Another report says that the FGFA deal is on the verge of collapse becos Russia wants $7B for TOT,handing over the list of exotic tech that we supposedly want.It is not the contours of the deal,which seem to have been worked out but the price of the tkt.If that deal collapses,we'll be up the spout with regard to China and will lose our qualitative edge. The IAF wanting the "latest and bestest" of fighters from east and west will be an impossible dream,esp. if full TOT is asked for. Look at the Rafale deal.We simply couldn't afford the French pricetag for TOT,etc. Some very hard thinking and reassessment of what the IAF needs is most urgent,as all deals take aeons to finally arrive.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

^^^

International arms dealers/manufactures know that the IAF is desperate. They have seen that even under unfavorable conditions, like with the Rafale deal, India will still sign up even if it means acquiring just 36 fighters (with hardly any ToT) for $8 billion instead of the much touted 126 MMRCA with ToT and domestic production. French won out big time. The follow-on MII is another such deal that have the foreign players salivating at the prospect of being chosen and then sticking a hard bargin so as to not part with any meaningful older tech/production knowing that a deal must be made in desperation. Who holds the all the hands in the poker game? ;)

Designed and built in India, the LCA Tejas is here. May not possess "ideal" specs but it's a good plane. Focus on it. Pour in money big time. 250 LCAs @ MK.1 price of $26 million would cost only $6.5 billion. Supplement it with limited numbers of new Rafales, Su-30MKIs and FGFA along with second-hand Mirage-2000s and MiG-29s. In 10-years, the shortages will be thing of the past.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Bala Vignesh »

The problem with LCA here is that the numbers​ being churned out by HAL. We need at least double digit turnout every 6 months for it to even stop the deteriorating numbers​ in the squadron strength.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Aditya_V »

If you invest the money I am sure in 3 or 4 years production can be brought to 32 or even 40. It requires large orders and GOI forcing HAL to Invest and IAF to accept. Nobody will procure Jigs, Suppliers are going to build superhuge capacities for fulfilling orders in 2 years and write off thier investment and make losses.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by ArjunPandit »

For close to $10Bn in LCA we can create a Aero industrial complex that is a class in itself. It will spawn so many innovations down the line, even if we dont have engine, there is a lot we can do on radars, armament, production, supply chain management. Even if it is a sub par plane(which it is certainly not), it is fairly modern and can give opponents across our threat spectrum a tough time right from Leh to Andaman
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by NRao »

we can create a Aero industrial complex that is a class in itself
The question is as compared to what? To where India is today or to where - as an example only - where the US is today?

I feel to answer some of these types of questions, a good indicator, is the progress of the LCA itself. Take for example the LCA MK1A. Check out the dates expected and where it is today. That should give one an idea of the capabilities of Indian MIC and therefore a broad framework of what one could expect from the Indian MIC in the future.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Vivek K »

Rao sahib - you're confusing the issue. The suggestion is - when India can throw money like peanuts on junk from some vendors, then why not create an aerospace MIC. Spending $10 billion would give upwards of 200 aircraft and manufacturing facilities, testing facilities, financing local vendors for manufacture of aircraft components etc. And with HAL now also going in for the HTFE 25 and 40, there could be a way forward in aero engines. Maybe in collaboration with Midhani etc. a materials science and metallurgical research facility could be set up to scale up lab processes for single crystal turbine blade manufacture. The data gathered from the Kaveri at GTRE should be shared with HAL (and vice-versa) to perhaps add FADECs to the HTFEs.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Aditya_V wrote:If you invest the money I am sure in 3 or 4 years production can be brought to 32 or even 40. It requires large orders and GOI forcing HAL to Invest and IAF to accept. Nobody will procure Jigs, Suppliers are going to build superhuge capacities for fulfilling orders in 2 years and write off thier investment and make losses.
It was mentioned last year here on BRF that French company that provides aviation alloy for certain parts like tail etc. Has big order book from all over world and they can't provide for bigger numbers. That's the reason Tejas can't be mfrd in large numbers per year.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

Manish_Sharma wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:If you invest the money I am sure in 3 or 4 years production can be brought to 32 or even 40. It requires large orders and GOI forcing HAL to Invest and IAF to accept. Nobody will procure Jigs, Suppliers are going to build superhuge capacities for fulfilling orders in 2 years and write off thier investment and make losses.
It was mentioned last year here on BRF that French company that provides aviation alloy for certain parts like tail etc. Has big order book from all over world and they can't provide for bigger numbers. That's the reason Tejas can't be mfrd in large numbers per year.
That has more to do with flawed Indian procurement practices than the capacity of a parts manufacturer. A lead-time of one/two/three years is often required for the manufacturer to produce in the quantities desired. So if orders for LCA are there and assembly are being ramped up to 30-40/year by 4th/5th year, then this parts manufacturer also need to be in the loop and appropriate orders need to be placed and schedules worked out today. If the orders are large enough and can be sustained for a certain duration, the manufacturer has the incentive to expand factory and hire more people. But if the orders are piecemeal and intermittent then there is no incentive for the manufacturer to expand its capacity or give preferential treatment.

Also, given large enough orders more than one parts manufacturer or supplier could be sought.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Aditya_V »

If Firms orders are there the French Manufacturer can will expand capacity and provide it to you or better even make the alloy in India. The question is of orders.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Thanks Srai ji, Aditya ji

It means if MoD extends same facility as they do to eg eurofighter competing winning mmrca without aesa radar OR allowing grippen 'E' which just flew first time yesterday for the first time in 200 single engine competition alongside f16. IIRC Raha ji mentioned grippen E last year.

I wonder if the same trust could be placed in homegrown Texas by govt.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Eric Leiderman »

We have to go for a single engine fighter as a back up to LCA production issues. There WAS insufficient political will for the LCA to blossom. in a very critical time phase. Things are moving now but we have lost 5-7 years, we should have had a couple of LCA sqds in place by now, even with limited capabilities that would have given us a functional supply/Manafacturing chain/line and possibly this discussion would not have been taking place.

The issue would have been a twin engined fighter, if LCA production had stabalized. Now we have both issues simultanously with limited funds.

Our neighborhood is such that time is now of the essence, We have the politicos in place to take the Pakis to task, but with our degraded capabilities , We might end up with a bloddy nose. No one says this out loud but its a fact. We need 3-5 years to get ready to give the buggers a repeat of 71. We need another Manekshaw like plain speaker at the helm of things. Their airforce is not a walk over, their ground forces have good air attack capabilities. It will not be a cake walk, as the war will not be allowed to run for more than 10 days.

Hopefully we stop at 100 aircraft and give room to LCA to bloom.It may not be as good as the 16 or gripen but has the potential to improve in phases. Time will tell.


OT Alert

(Our neighborhood is such that time is now of the essence, We have the politicos in place to take the Pakis to task, but with our degraded capabilities , We might end up with a bloddy nose. No one says this out loud but its a fact. We need 3-5 years to get ready to give the buggers a repeat of 71. We need another Manekshaw like plain speaker at the helm of things. Their airforce is not a walk over, their ground forces have good air attack capabilities. It will not be a cake walk, as the war will not be allowed to run for more than 10 days.
We do not have the mobility to make major inroads as an attacking force as yet. The end run should be to take back POK and get a land route to Afghanistan. Sindh etc is just a barganing chip. We have misused these chips before and most probably will again.
Too much hard earned money has been squandered and more importantly time. Mr Snow white Lungi and gang have really messed up the decade.Yes it is summer here and everything in the gardens are blooming so I cant get the garden analogies out of my head. The Monsoons will cool the temptations on both sides as nothing major should happen soon.)

Mods Sorry for the OT
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Philip »

Ind.Express editorial today,called acquiring the F-16 like buying the equiv of a "Hindustan Ambassador"!

If the IAF truly want a western SE fighter,then the newest kid on the block is the Gripen and you can bet your a*se that they will give us far more in terms of non-intrusive TOT clauses than the Yanquis.PL read the piece about the possibility of Sea Gripen in the IN td.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Marten »

Philip wrote:Ind.Express editorial today,called acquiring the F-16 like buying the equiv of a "Hindustan Ambassador"!

If the IAF truly want a western SE fighter,then the newest kid on the block is the Gripen and you can bet your a*se that they will give us far more in terms of non-intrusive TOT clauses than the Yanquis.PL read the piece about the possibility of Sea Gripen in the IN td.
Sea Gripen? :rotfl: Like the mythical bird or the ready to flyin 20 years Unicorn!
Please list the benefits that the Gripen confers on the nation, the IAF, and local industry?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Cybaru »

Sea Gripen doesn't have funding or an IOC date! They want someone to underwrite the development..

The FOC for land base Gripen is 2026 at the moment. It is possible it will slip further! :lol:
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Absolutely true that the Grippen-E is still in its infancy but the overall platform is pretty well aged. The F16 for all its fighting prowess and operational history behind it is at the very end of its development capacity. It is no longer the sleek and agile fighter it debuted as but instead has become laden with a lot of weight that affect its combat maneuvering.
Just my opinion.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

Cybaru wrote:Sea Gripen doesn't have funding or an IOC date! They want someone to underwrite the development..

The FOC for land base Gripen is 2026 at the moment. It is possible it will slip further! :lol:
LCA Mk.2, a Gripen-E equivalent, won't be too far behind ... post 2026. India has more or less caught up on "4th-Gen" fighter technologies. No point importing one when you can build your own at home around the same time-frames.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by ramana »

Any news of the SARAS plane development flights/trials?

For the re cord Hindu 21 July 2009 had the root cause as engine relight procedure being the cause of the crash.

Wrong Relight drill caused the Saras crash

The Hindu has learnt from officials connected with the board of inquiry that the engine relight (engine restart) drills given by the designers and followed by the pilots were wrong.

The two test pilots were for the first time on the Saras, attempting to switch off and relight in midair one of the two Pratt and Whitney (PT6A-67) engines. The test is a mandatory requirement of the flight development programme. The aircraft had reached its designated height of 9,000 feet and the left engine switched off. After one minute, the crew attempted to relight the engine, and this was communicated to the ground crew. But soon after radio communication was lost, the aircraft started losing height and crashed. “Prior to the flight, the pilots were briefed by the designers about the drills to be followed during relight, and they followed it. But the relight drills were incorrect. With each aero engine having its own unique set of procedures to be adhered to during relight (like at what speed, airflow, where the propellers stop, etc), the pilots just followed the designer’s briefings. Errors occurred; the aircraft went out of control and crashed,” an official explained.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by manjgu »

is F 16 block 70 competitive given our adversaries capabilities? Does the IAF think of PAF F 16s as a worthy adversary?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

manjgu wrote:is F 16 block 70 competitive given our adversaries capabilities? Does the IAF think of PAF F 16s as a worthy adversary?
Let's not forget the IAF will have the following:
  • 270 Su-30MKI
  • 36 Rafale
  • 115 MiG-29UPG & Mirage-2000UPG
Last edited by srai on 21 Jun 2017 22:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Kakarat »

Maybe the main aim of these F-16 trials is to study the capability of the PAF F-16s
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Karthik S »

We have done that during MRCA trials.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

Also, regular training with the RSAF F-16s at Kalikunda AFS.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Philip »

Some news on Indo-Russian def. deals incl. FGFA,KA-226,etc..
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/key ... d-pakistan
India, Russia to iron out defense projects worth $10B
By: Vivek Raghuvanshi, June 22, 2017 (Photo Credit: Money Sharma/AFP via Getty Images)
NEW DELHI — Ahead of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the U.S. for his first meeting with President Donald Trump, Arun Jaitley, India's finance minister and defense minister, is visiting Moscow to finalize weapons projects worth $10 billion that are "held up in the last stages."

Jaitley will "iron out" weapons projects during his talks on with Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin and Defence Minister Gen. Sergey Shoygu at the 17th Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Cooperation in Moscow, an Indian Ministry of Defence official said.

The weapons projects worth over $10 billion that are in the final stages of discussions include the purchase of S-400 air defense systems, the acquisition of four Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates and the acquisition of 200 Kamov 226T light utility helicopters, or LUH, under the Make in India category. In addition, the lease of the second nuclear-powered submarine that is also in the final stages will be discussed.

Resurrection of Indo-Russia Ties Seen in $10B Defense Agreement
The MoD official said one of the major sticking points between India and Russia, which has been affected by U.S. sanctions against Russia pertaining to bank guarantees, has been resolved.
The sanctions disabled Indian banks from issuing guarantees to tie up with leading Russian banks.

According to Indian procurement law, Russia has to furnish bank guarantees from an Indian bank, which, in turn, has to tie up with a Russian bank. In addition, the bank guarantee should be made by a leading Russian bank, which are all under U.S. sanctions.

Defense News
US sanctions are affecting India-Russia defense deals: MoD source
"Jaitely will tell his counterparts (in Russia) that an amendment will be made (here) so that only a sovereign guarantee would be sufficient to execute the purchase orders doing away with the necessity of bank guarantees," an MoD official noted.

The main defense project that was affected because of the bank guarantee issue was the Oct. 2016 $5 billion deal on Indo-Russian Krivak class frigates.

Light utility helicopters
A memorandum of understanding, or MoU, between India and Russia was inked nearly two years ago on the joint production of Kamov 226T light utility helicopters, but progress on the ground has been slow. Early this year, India and Russia incorporated a joint venture named India-Russia Helicopters Limited Company to manufacture and assemble 140 Kamov 226T LUH. Out of total of 200 helicopters, 60 will be received in fly-away condition from Russia while 40 will be assembled in India and the remaining 100 fully built in India.
However, Russia is committing India for a larger number of helicopters to commit any transfer of technology.

An MoD source said that Jaitley will "thrash out" the helicopter issue during his Moscow visit, "even if it means less transfer of technology," according to another MoD official.

Defense News
S-400 and the Akula-II

India's purchase of S-400 air defence systems worth $ 6 billion is at the top of Jaitley's agenda. An intergovernmental agreement on the sale of the S-400 was signed in Oct. 2016 at the India-Russia summit in Moscow between President Vladimir Putin and Modi.

India and Russia will also finalize the lease of the second nuclear-powered submarine on lease from Russia. The Indian Navy inducted the first Akula-II submarine, christened INS Chakra, on a 10-year lease from Russia in April 2012 under a secret $900 million deal inked in Jan. 2004.

Fifth-generation fighter aircraft
Jaitley will also discuss the long-delayed joint production of a fifth-generation fighter aircraft, or FGFA, but an MoD official said no decision has been made.
The initial FGFA agreement was signed in 2010 to jointly produce the aircraft for the Indian Air Force.

The MoD source said the outcome of FGFA is now being considered by an internal committee of MoD that is going into the technical issues, work sharing arrangement between India and Russia. A final agreement, which will release over $ 6 billion toward India's share of development in the FGFA, will be cleared only after the MoD gives the go ahead for the FGFA.

India has been importing weapons and spares from Russia since the 1960s, and Russian military equipment makes up nearly 60 percent of the total equipment in the inventory of the Indian defence forces. Most of these systems are old and need replacement.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by deejay »

http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 27913.html
Hindustan Aeronautics Limited sets revenue target at Rs 17,900 crore for 2017-18
By Express News Service | Published: 13th July 2017 07:59 AM |
Last Updated: 13th July 2017 07:59 AM | A+A A- |

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) will showcase a mock-up of India's first indigenous multi-role helicopter. | EPS Jithendra M Image used for representational purpose only.
BENGALURU: State-run aerospace behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has targeted Rs 17,900 crore revenue from operations for the year, the company said here on Wednesday, This is the highest ever target for the firm’s revenue from operations, it added.

HAL has inked a pact with the defence ministry for the production of a range of aircraft for the armed forces in the current fiscal. It also aims at achieving a capital expenditure of Rs 1,300 crore with emphasis on capacity building, modernisation, solar power plants.

The ministry said HAL’s focus in the year will be on production of Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40), Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and Light Utility Helicopter (LUH). The HAL HTT-40 aircraft project has been proposed by HAL for an indigenous replacement for the Indian Air Force’s retired HPT-32 Deepak as a basic trainer.

“Among the important milestones targeted to be achieved include, clearance by the director-general of civil aviation for the civil version of Dornier-228 aircraft, Jaguar DARIN-III upgrade and Mirage 2000 upgrade,” it said. The Dornier 228, a 19-seater, short take-off and landing aircraft, is expected to have an increase in maximum take-off weight, a more powerful engine and propeller blades.

The company also aims to achieve a five per cent increase in indigenous content through indigenisation under Make-in-India initiatives. The MoU was signed between Ashok Kumar Gupta, secretary, Department of Defence Production, and T Suvarna Raju, CMD, HAL. It also outlined the targets of the company on various parameters during the year.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by deejay »

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... ft-439504/
Delhi outlines need for seven SIGINT aircraft

20 JULY, 2017 SOURCE: FLIGHTGLOBAL.COM
Delhi has issued a request for information (RFI) for seven signals intelligence (SIGINT) and communications jamming aircraft.

As per the RFI, two aircraft in SIGINT configuration will be acquired for the National Technical Research Organisation (NTRO) - India’s technical intelligence agency. Five SIGINT and communications jamming configured aircraft are to be operated by the air force.

A request for proposal (RFP) is due before the middle of 2018. Deliveries are to commence two years after the contract is signed.

This marks the revival of a 2012 effort to obtain special mission aircraft. At that time the requirement was for nine.

The RFI specifies that the airborne SIGINT system should have greater than a 400km range with 360-degree azimuth coverage.

The aircraft must be able to operate from airfields as high as 3300m (10,800 feet) above sea level in both roles, and while carrying a minimum of 50 percent fuel load.

Each aircraft must have seven workstations, in addition to minimum seating capacity for at least ten passengers and space for four crew-rest bunks. The aircraft destined for the NTRO will have only SIGINT equipment installed, with the displays to be duplicated in the cockpit.

The aircraft must include a countermeasures dispensing system, radar warning receiver, missile approach warning system and directed infrared counter measures (DIRCM).

Delhi has made strenuous efforts to improve the nation’s inadequate airborne surveillance capability in recent years. Three Beriev A-50EI airborne early warning & control (AEW&) aircraft in service, with funding for two additional examples approved in 2016.

The first of three Embraer EMB-145-based AEW&C aircraft was inducted in February. India's Defence Research & Development Organisation is also looking at obtaining six Airbus A330 aircraft as AEW&C platforms.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

deejay wrote:http://www.newindianexpress.com/busines ... 27913.html
BENGALURU: State-run aerospace behemoth Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has targeted Rs 17,900 crore revenue from operations for the year, the company said here on Wednesday, This is the highest ever target for the firm’s revenue from operations, it added.

HAL has inked a pact with the defence ministry for the production of a range of aircraft for the armed forces in the current fiscal. It also aims at achieving a capital expenditure of Rs 1,300 crore with emphasis on capacity building, modernisation, solar power plants.

The ministry said HAL’s focus in the year will be on production of Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40), Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and Light Utility Helicopter (LUH). The HAL HTT-40 aircraft project has been proposed by HAL for an indigenous replacement for the Indian Air Force’s retired HPT-32 Deepak as a basic trainer.

“Among the important milestones targeted to be achieved include, clearance by the director-general of civil aviation for the civil version of Dornier-228 aircraft, Jaguar DARIN-III upgrade and Mirage 2000 upgrade,” it said. The Dornier 228, a 19-seater, short take-off and landing aircraft, is expected to have an increase in maximum take-off weight, a more powerful engine and propeller blades.
This is the second interview I have seen of HAL chairman where helos and HTT 40 are mentioned but not Tejas.

I find that an interesting omission. When we discuss Tejas here it is always HAL or the Air Force whose virtual backsides we BRFexperts are kicking,.

There has to be some reason for this deliberate omission. I for one am glad that HAL is progressing on HTT 40 and the LCH, both vital for our defence future. But this article also mentions Darin III and Mirage upgrade but not LCA. I wonder why.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by JayS »

shiv wrote:
This is the second interview I have seen of HAL chairman where helos and HTT 40 are mentioned but not Tejas.

I find that an interesting omission. When we discuss Tejas here it is always HAL or the Air Force whose virtual backsides we BRFexperts are kicking,.

There has to be some reason for this deliberate omission. I for one am glad that HAL is progressing on HTT 40 and the LCH, both vital for our defence future. But this article also mentions Darin III and Mirage upgrade but not LCA. I wonder why.
I have noticed this so many times. So many times LCA is missing from HAL's line up, in posters, in advertisements, in interviews, in their talks. I so much want to ask someone from HAL to explain this peculiar thing. This after MK1A is suppose to be more of HAL initiative now.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by nachiket »

HAL still considers the LCA as ADA's baby not theirs. They are only the production house. All R&D performed by ADA. I had hoped this would change at least now that MK1A is being worked on by HAL. But old habits die hard I guess.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

nachiket wrote:HAL still considers the LCA as ADA's baby not theirs. They are only the production house. All R&D performed by ADA. I had hoped this would change at least now that MK1A is being worked on by HAL. But old habits die hard I guess.
But how is Mirage 2000 upg HAL's baby?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by sum »

The ministry said HAL’s focus in the year will be on production of Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40), Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) and Light Utility Helicopter (LUH)
Did the LCH complete its IOC/FOC or it starts production even as it is in process?
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »

IOC completed, flight envelop completely opened. Limited serial production started last year itself, IIRC. FOC is targeted at the end of this year.

This is how it should be. Prove the airframe and start serial production. Everything else can be retrofitted.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Singha »

israel is a good example of a country that never makes fighter engines, but does everything else incl high value items like missiles , PGMs and radars.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by JayS »

Indranil wrote:IOC completed, flight envelop completely opened. Limited serial production started last year itself, IIRC. FOC is targeted at the end of this year.

This is how it should be. Prove the airframe and start serial production. Everything else can be retrofitted.
True. But to just make a distinction (not for you, you know this already), for helis this is what is done even in India AFAIK. IOC is only for flight envelop certification. While FOC includes the weaponisation which can happen post serial production starting and induction.

For the fighters its somewhat different. Some basic weaponisation is included in the IOC itself.
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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

Whoa...
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/900667665991303169
Livefist‏Verified account @livefist 6h6 hours ago

Defence Minister @ArunJaitley to dedicate HAL's self-upgraded Hawk-i trainer to the nation on Aug 26 in Bengaluru.
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