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Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Marten » 20 Feb 2017 16:21

Austin wrote:HAL to sign orders for 73 Advanced Light Helicopters, 106 HTT-40 trainers
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Hell hath frozen over!
"We expect to sign the order for 73 ALH worth Rs 14,000 crore to the Services soon and order for 106 HTT-40 to the Indian Air Force (IAF) worth Rs 4,770 crore when ready for production," HAL Chairman T. Suvarna Raju told reporters here.

The city-based defence behemoth has already delivered 231 ALHs to the Services since 2002 and has an order for 159 more from them.


For context:
IAF Chief Norman Browne to Shiv Aroor in Feb 2013
“There is no need for it (the HTT-40 turbo trainer project),” IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Norman Browne said in response to a question by me on a series of HAL projects that the IAF is deeply unhappy with.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 20 Feb 2017 16:33

perhaps the Pilatus has 'teething troubles' that are being swept under carpet for h&d reasons, until someone spills the beans

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Philip » 20 Feb 2017 18:27

The P{C-7 is used so extensively globally for ages,that it is unlikely to have any defects like a new bird. In fact the more advanced PC-21 supplants the need for an IJT and can be configured to fly like most advanced fighters.It is in use with many air forces. HAL now need to deliver fast on the testing regime and then on production and sustained quality,where it traditionally (says the IAF) falls short,

Titbit from VAYU quoting MP.The MOD has accepted the IN's assessment that the NLCA will not make the grade,hence the req. for 57 new fighters from abroad.However,the NLCA development will continue as a "technology demonstrator" once the MK-2 LCA dev. also starts up.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 20 Feb 2017 22:39

Singha wrote:perhaps the Pilatus has 'teething troubles' that are being swept under carpet for h&d reasons, until someone spills the beans

PC-7 MkIIs are doing exceptionally well in IAF.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cosmo_R » 20 Feb 2017 23:52

^^^Seen for the first time, an IAF Mirage-2000TI with a Popeye (reportedly Popeye II aka Crystal Haze)

It's Crystal Maze. Crystal Haze is a rock band.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Austin » 21 Feb 2017 16:18

Private airline denied permission by IAF to operate flight

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bhurishravas » 21 Feb 2017 19:33

Government clears 38 additional radar stations along coastline

The Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) on Tuesday cleared the establishment of 38 additional radar stations along the Indian coastline as part of the second phase of costal surveillance system.The project, sanctioned at a cost of Rs 8,00 crore, would include four mobile surveillance systems. It would also include the integration of Vessel Traffic Management System (VTMS) in the Gulf of Kutch and Gulf of Khambhat.

http://zeenews.india.com/india/governme ... 79693.html

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby vasu raya » 22 Feb 2017 08:15

The Combat Hawk, seems to be a good fit to man the Sir Creek area helping out the Coast Guard, which sometimes gets involved in these 14 hour long chases of errant boats, if they could only employ such aircraft for quick intercepts, the paki boats would also not have enough time to go back after trespassing to pick up fishermen

Two armaments, something like the Helina to be fired just outside the manpad range, a nano torpedo to disable the props of most sea vessels if required to cut the chase literally

Maybe they are also good enough to be escorts to the Dorniers on some occasions

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby vasu raya » 22 Feb 2017 08:37

And maybe exports to nations combating piracy in their neighborhood, show the cost difference versus employing nuclear subs for the same purposes, their cover would be blown, the Chinese were shamed enough on cost comparison with ISRO


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Marten » 22 Feb 2017 23:23

Another Super Hercules damaged in Ladakh, India now has only four - By Rajat Pandit on TOI
NEW DELHI: A C-130J 'Super Hercules' aircraft being flown by the commanding officer of the elite 'Veiled Vipers' squadron of IAF has been left badly-damaged after it crashed into a pole and other structures while taxing on the tarmac in the high-altitude Thoise airfield in Ladakh recently.

Sources say the IAF is now conducting a high-level court of inquiry (CoI) into the unusual mishap after relieving the pilot, Group Captain Jasveen Singh Chatrath, of his command of the 77 Squadron (Veiled Vipers) based at Hindon airbase on the outskirts of New Delhi.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 23 Feb 2017 03:49

mandatory watching till the end of the video!


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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby ragupta » 23 Feb 2017 04:12

Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



Wow, awesome, smart guy. His team made it happens, hats off to him.
Very confident person with pragmatic approach to achieve objective. He is my Hero after KH.
Salute to such spirit, who can take India to great heights.

Now Make it happen for LCA-Mk1A and IMRH
Dil Kush huaa.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 23 Feb 2017 04:20

yes indeed, he's a really dynamic young PM in HAL. Will go a long way for sure. :)

Remarkable that they've already achieved top speed, max altitude, max g loads in just 49 flights.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Yagnasri » 23 Feb 2017 04:37

Hell of a guy. We need people like him in many areas. I am sure they are available out there and all GOI need to do is to find such guys and support them.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Shankk » 23 Feb 2017 04:52

Excellent video Kartik. I had read about this guy; now got to watch him too. As he mentioned, average age of the team members is 30 years. That was really heartening to hear. I wonder exactly what kind of role LCA experience played in general to make more and more people aware about avionics and flight testing that this team was able to achieve this such a short time span. Just one more proof how important it is to build the skill set no matter how painstaking it is.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Suresh S » 23 Feb 2017 05:36

tx kartik. terrific video. India is in good hands. very impressed

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 23 Feb 2017 08:18

HAL and the Indian Aerospace industry need to retain these people. Trump may be an ally in this by making it difficult for the US to suck up young, experienced engineers for insane salaries so they can sing Star Spangled Banner after a few years and their kids can say how yucky Indian bathrooms are.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2017 08:48

Marten wrote:Another Super Hercules damaged in Ladakh, India now has only four - By Rajat Pandit on TOI
NEW DELHI: A C-130J 'Super Hercules' aircraft being flown by the commanding officer of the elite 'Veiled Vipers' squadron of IAF has been left badly-damaged after it crashed into a pole and other structures while taxing on the tarmac in the high-altitude Thoise airfield in Ladakh recently.

Sources say the IAF is now conducting a high-level court of inquiry (CoI) into the unusual mishap after relieving the pilot, Group Captain Jasveen Singh Chatrath, of his command of the 77 Squadron (Veiled Vipers) based at Hindon airbase on the outskirts of New Delhi.


strange. there are aprons at either end for transports and a helipad in middle

https://www.google.co.in/maps/@34.65264 ... a=!3m1!1e3

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby NRao » 23 Feb 2017 08:54

Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



By your work ethics and hard work, you have made luck. I would think you can give it to others around you. This indeed is the crown jewel, a project that should emulated.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby JayS » 23 Feb 2017 12:28

Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



Wow. What a mesmerizing piece. Its a keeper. Dil khush ho gaya. :mrgreen:

God speed to Team HTT-40. This is the second project from HAL that has really impressed me, after HTFE-25. Both projects are run by a relatively young and dynamic teams. This shows HAL coming of age as an OEM.

Apart from that lots of technical information for jingos.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby srai » 23 Feb 2017 13:55

Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



Make in India
  • From detailed design to first flight in 11-months
  • Average age of HAL employees associated with the project -> 30-years
  • 90 LRUs -> 75% (HAL divisions), 15% (private sector), 10% (abroad - engine & ejection seat)
  • 4500 parts -> 3000 fabricated by local MSEs & private players
  • Design iteration -> 700 test cases and spin/stall tests in France
  • 3 prototypes and 2 static ground test specimens

Key achievements in 8-months:
  • 49 flights
  • Maximum altitude -> 6km @6m/s climb rate
  • Top speed -> 450km/hr
  • All G maneuverability -> +6G/-2.5G
  • 360 degree roll
  • Inverted flying
  • Comfortable latitudinal and longitudinal rolls

Coming up:
  • Stall & Spin in mid-2017 with parachute -> lessons applied from HJT-36 (aerodynamic characteristics, structural components, stall and spin commonality)
  • Certification by 2018
  • Handover to IAF 2019
  • Price -> Rs 42 crore (cheapest in this category of aircraft)
Last edited by srai on 23 Feb 2017 15:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Prasad » 23 Feb 2017 15:00

Biggest takeaway from that video was how easy having a ready source for most components made building a prototype in short order.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 23 Feb 2017 15:04

The qweschun being how many of those ready components would have been available in the absence of healthy local aero industry. The HTT 40 has benefited from Tejas, HJT 36 and and Dornier programs. The Tejas itself did not have that luck. The IJT was the teacher who died while teaching

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Bala Vignesh » 23 Feb 2017 16:32

shiv wrote:The qweschun being how many of those ready components would have been available in the absence of healthy local aero industry. The HTT 40 has benefited from Tejas, HJT 36 and and Dornier programs. The Tejas itself did not have that luck. The IJT was the teacher who died while teaching

Amen to that, hakim saab.. Also another point I'd like to bring forward is the foresight that HAL had to leverage on this and get the ball rolling without waiting for the nod from the babu's in MoD..

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Marten » 23 Feb 2017 16:37

What happens at HAL once Sukhoi, Hawk, ALH lines run dry? All they have is Tejas.
In about three years, MRO ops will be on for all products, but we know these do not have the same revenue.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2017 16:41

Shiv AroorVerified account‏@ShivAroor 5h5 hours ago
More
Good news: the C-130J flew back to home base in Hindon a few days after the ground incident.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2017 16:43

http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/ ... faces.html

HAL wants to make a seaplane variant of the do228

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Pratyush » 23 Feb 2017 16:44

HAL will move on to the imrh and the lch and AMCA. May be the 20 ton airlifted as well.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2017 16:53

conformal sensors on amca model to undergo tests soon in Hyd
http://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/02/ ... -2017.html

they want to finalize the conformal stuff size and fitting before arriving at decided shape of AMCA TD per Wingco Balaji in the amca article linked therein

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 23 Feb 2017 16:54

I am expecting dhruv, rudra and lch to continue production in tranches for atleast another 15 years. we need so many helis there is no limit to our requirement. for instance you want a 1st airborne type formation - that itself is 200 helis a mix of mi17, dhruv, rudra and lch.

every major heli out there has had very long production runs like cobras, apaches, CH53, Mi17, sh60, huey, puma, cougar, alouette...no exceptions

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Cybaru » 23 Feb 2017 19:49

srai wrote:
Kartik wrote:mandatory watching till the end of the video!



Make in India
  • From detailed design to first flight in 11-months
  • Average age of HAL employees associated with the project -> 30-years
  • 90 LRUs -> 75% (HAL divisions), 15% (private sector), 10% (abroad - engine & ejection seat)
  • 4500 parts -> 3000 fabricated by local MSEs & private players
  • Design iteration -> 700 test cases and spin/stall tests in France
  • 3 prototypes and 2 static ground test specimens

Key achievements in 8-months:
  • 49 flights
  • Maximum altitude -> 6km @6m/s climb rate
  • Top speed -> 450km/hr
  • All G maneuverability -> +6G/-2.5G
  • 360 degree roll
  • Inverted flying
  • Comfortable latitudinal and longitudinal rolls

Coming up:
  • Stall & Spin in mid-2017 with parachute -> lessons applied from HJT-36 (aerodynamic characteristics, structural components, stall and spin commonality)
  • Certification by 2018
  • Handover to IAF 2019
  • Price -> Rs 42 crore (cheapest in this category of aircraft)

Can you update the wiki ?

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Neela » 23 Feb 2017 20:30

From the HTT40 video

"Recovery rate 99.1% for engine intake combo"

Can someone translate this please.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Indranil » 23 Feb 2017 20:40

Read about "intake pressure recovery".

IJT is being resurrected. I have a feeling after watching the HTT-40 video. IJT's wings did not have sufficient twist.

My jingo dream is an HTFE powered IJT. Second Dream is HJT-39 powered by two HTFEs and with a straight large wing for high altitude recce-COIN-CAS.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 23 Feb 2017 22:07

Neela wrote:From the HTT40 video

"Recovery rate 99.1% for engine intake combo"

Can someone translate this please.

It means (among other things) that the engines were not mounted blindly without consulting the OEM.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Kartik » 24 Feb 2017 00:24

Marten wrote:What happens at HAL once Sukhoi, Hawk, ALH lines run dry? All they have is Tejas.
In about three years, MRO ops will be on for all products, but we know these do not have the same revenue.


LCH, LUH and Ka-226T lines will keep HAL busy. And then if the IMRH comes through, that will be a lot of work as well. So there'll be 3 assembly lines likely running at any given time, assuming the Ka-226T line comes to an end by the time the IMRH one begins.

HAL will also have the HTT-40 line going and a lot of work on the Su-30MKI upgrade to Super Sukhoi standards post 2020. Plus the Tejas. In a way, its a blessing. If HAL is forced to focus on the Tejas as a result of not having any other fighter assembly line going, it will work in the Tejas program's favor.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby shiv » 24 Feb 2017 08:51

Bharat Karnad does it again. His stupid booboos do not inspire confidence in me. Here he says that a C-17 Globemaster was crashed into a hill. wtf?
Image

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Neela » 24 Feb 2017 10:43

^^^
"IAF's trouble with sophisticated transporters" ?

There you go. Without waiting for the crash report, this aviation expert has put the blame on IAF already.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby Singha » 24 Feb 2017 10:46

how can a plane shear off its wing and fly back in a few days?

Shiv AroorVerified account‏@ShivAroor 5h5 hours ago
Good news: the C-130J flew back to home base in Hindon a few days after the ground incident.

one side is 100% wrong.

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Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Postby hnair » 24 Feb 2017 10:57

C17 crashed into a hill? :shock:


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