Arun.prabhu wrote:Partnerships happen between parties that are on an equal footing. Israel needs to sell weapons to support their military industrial complex, to gain political allies against the whole damn Middle East and the anti-semites in progressive ranks of political parties around the world. Thus, their straight dealing when it comes to weapon systems. They'll sell anything to anyone. Russia, when we bought Brahmos was bankrupt from the soviet breakup and hard up for cash. We were able to keep them honest. In a manner of speaking. Tell me, how has that worked out with other Indo-Russian defence JVs?
There is no equal footing between parties. Partnerships are always to compensate what the other party lacks. In the UK's case, it is money. That is the only reason for the UK's offer to join the Tempest program.
And you are correct about Israel needing to support their MIC and Russia to get bank rolled, post the Soviet Union. But there were tangible benefits for India on both the LRSAM/Barak 8 missile and the BrahMos missile. This is zero benefit for India from joining the Tempest program. Massa will tell the UK what to do and UK (being an obedient poodle) will follow suit. And like I mentioned earlier, they will write yarns and fables in a contract, which can never be enforced by India.
We were able to keep Russia relatively honest on the BrahMos program, because the Russians did not have Maasa to bankroll them. How can we expect to keep the UK to honour their promises in a contract, when Maasa can bail them out?
Arun.prabhu wrote:The point I'm trying to make is, the English are vulnerable thanks to Brexit. They need solid trade allies because in the short run, they're going to have severe economic pains. If we want technologies from them, this is the time to enter into JVs. A few billions here or there and we can get some cutting edge technologies from them. Maybe engine tech, maybe GaN, maybe something else... But there is something to be gained. Compared to eight billions for a mere three dozen rafale, that would be a bargain.
Yes the UK does need solid trade allies. And I am sure on a number of sectors, there can be some real cooperation between India and UK. However on a sensitive program (such a sixth generation fighter), Massa will ensure that nothing of value is transferred to India. This has got nothing to do with a dislike for India, but rather just to protect Maasa tech.
And what is the guarantee that the UK decides to shut down the Tempest program and move to the US sixth generation fighter program, following the JSF model? What happens to an Indian investment then? We will get nothing and will have lost money as well. Just like the $250 million we lost in the PAK-FA program. The UK is an unreliable ally and follows geopolitical direction from Maasa.
No engine tech, no GaN tech or anything of value will come. And the result will be the same for the Franco-German program. The only difference is that the Franco-German program will actually see the light of day. The Tempest program is as real as Harry Potter and the Lord of the Rings. Gandolf will come visiting New Delhi, sprinkle some magic and we may get starry eyed. But like all magic, it is only illusionary. See the next post below this one, for UK's benevolence with regards to the Indian military. The program has to exist.
The French will be unlikely to sign on to a joint venture with Maasa on a sixth generation fighter. It is for the same reason, they never jumped onto the F-35 bandwagon either. They will continue to refine the Rafale program over various tranches to suit their needs for which the budget will come out of French coffers. The Franco-German 6th generation program will be the same. The UK has the luxury of not having to invest scare resources into programs like this. That is the perk of being Maasa's poodle.
And this talk about French tech being without conditions. Yes, in a way it is, to everyone. But here's the problem. During the Falkland war, the French, who had sold anti shipping missiles to Argentina were helping the English and the Argentinians - the former with helping prevent Argentina from procuring more missiles and the latter by providing technical assistance to rectify faulty launchers that probably cost English lives.How France helped us win Falklands war, by John Notthttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... -Nott.html
So much for France playing straight. France looks out for French interests. Damn everyone else. I'll note that so do and must everyone else.
Every nation does look out for herself. I am not denying that.
But unlike the UK, France has a vested interest in their defence programs. They will ensure that it sees the light of day, regardless of cost overruns. They see the condition of the UK and do not want to her share her fate. Assisting the UK over the Falklands conflict is one thing. Surrendering your sovereignty over to Maasa is a whole other ball game.
Part and parcel of the French looking out for themselves, they will sell to anyone (in reason) with cold hard cash. Countries like India, Qatar, Egypt can afford purchases like the Rafale because they have the money to spend. If India could buy Rafale in 2016, we could get our hands on a future French fighter as well. We just need to show the money. The French do indeed look out for their interests. And the French did not give us engine tech or GaN tech from the Rafale program either, despite the billions we spent on acquiring 36 Rafales. But nobody on this planet will give you that tech. That is their intellectual property. Why should they share it?
But take a look at the Rafale program and compare her capability to the Eurofighter. It is night and day.