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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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Bheeshma
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bheeshma » 11 Feb 2017 10:12

Hmm I thought PDV could intercept at 150 Km height, but 120 km is not bad. What ever happened to the K-4 MkII test?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohiths » 11 Feb 2017 10:50

That's THAAD level performance and should be sufficient for Pakis. The focus should be to operationalize the Ballistic missile defence to key cities and defence installations.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 11 Feb 2017 11:18

Is there any information available on this new indigenous IIR seeker used in this PDV..?

Hit to kill is awesome. Shows that both the seeker and the algorith are good.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 11 Feb 2017 11:35

Karthik S wrote:
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
A new @DRDO_India BMD interceptor sporting an indigenous IIR seeker intercepted a ballistic target at an altitude of 97 km earlier today.


nash wrote:Some more of his tweet

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 46m46 minutes ago
More
The interceptor is a variant of the PDV with a new IIR seeker, propulsion & avionics. It's interception window spans from 80-120 km.

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 45m45 minutes ago
More
Most importantly, this was a 'hit to kill' missions with @DRDO_India's new PDV smashing into the deviating & 'undefined' target.



Regards the Ashwin PDV ballistic missile interceptor test reported by Saurav Jha, for the sake of good order, it can be confirmed that a NAVAREA VIII Warning for a Missile Test was in force today:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 11 Feb 2017 11:58

PTI via Hindu quoting an unnamed DRDO official on the PDV ballistic missile interceptor test.

Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :

The interceptor was launched from Abdul Kalam Island (Wheeler Island) of ITR at about 7.45 AM.

This mission, termed as “PDV mission is for engaging the targets in the exo-atmosphere region at an altitude above 50 km of earth’s atmosphere”, said a Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) official.

“Both, the PDV interceptor and the two stage target missile, were successfully engaged,” he said.

The target was developed for mimicking a hostile Ballistic Missile approaching from more than 2000 km away was launched from a ship anchored in the Bay of Bengal.


From here:

Interceptor missile successfully test-fired

Gyan
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 11 Feb 2017 12:09

We need to make AAD, PDV as a multiple purpose missiles like SM-6. Apart from BMD, they can be used as 400-600km range SAM, and even Anti Ship missile.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby AdityaM » 11 Feb 2017 12:52

arun wrote:Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :

The target was developed for mimicking a hostile Ballistic Missile approaching from more than 2000 km away was launched from a ship anchored in the Bay of Bengal.


Target mimics a 2000 km range missile. It doesn't mean it's a 2000 km range itself

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby DrRatnadip » 11 Feb 2017 15:14

Very respectable job by our scientists..why it is not possible for us to target hafeez saeed since he is in house arrest..i mean its coordinates will be well known and brahmos can do this job well..is it technically difficult or political backlash due to collateral damage preventing us.. :| :?:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nash » 11 Feb 2017 16:06

arun wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



what would be the range of this NAVAREA?

kurup
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 11 Feb 2017 16:21

arun wrote:
Karthik S wrote:


nash wrote:Some more of his tweet




Regards the Ashwin PDV ballistic missile interceptor test reported by Saurav Jha, for the sake of good order, it can be confirmed that a NAVAREA VIII Warning for a Missile Test was in force today:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The date on NAVAREA is for Feb11 ......... but they conducted the test yesterday :shock: ......... no such warning can be found for Feb 10th .

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 11 Feb 2017 16:30

Tests scheduled on Feb 11 , 15 and 16 ( same area )

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089- 00.30E

2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIALS SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 15 AND 16 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-00.30E

2. CANCEL THIS MSG 160530 UTC FEB 17

Image

Image

arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 11 Feb 2017 17:27

kurup wrote:The date on NAVAREA is for Feb11 ......... but they conducted the test yesterday :shock: ......... no such warning can be found for Feb 10th .


PDV Test was today, Saturday Feb 11 at 7.45AM. PTI via Hindustan Times:

India successfully test-fires interceptor missile off Odisha coast

India successfully test-fired its interceptor missile off the Odisha coast on Saturday, achieving a significant milestone in the direction of developing a two-layered Ballistic Missile Defence system.

The interceptor was launched from Abdul Kalam Island (Wheeler Island) of ITR at about 7.45 AM.



Thanks for the posting the charts 8)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 11 Feb 2017 17:46

AdityaM wrote:
arun wrote:Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :



Target mimics a 2000 km range missile. It doesn't mean it's a 2000 km range itself


:oops: I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Meanwhile by mimicking I guess DRDO means the intercepted target missile was travelling at a speed around 3.86 to 4.07 km/sec per Table 6 of the article titled A BALLISTIC MISSILE PRIMER

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby John » 11 Feb 2017 18:03

rohiths wrote:That's THAAD level performance and should be sufficient for Pakis. The focus should be to operationalize the Ballistic missile defence to key cities and defence installations.

Thaad from my understanding is endo atmospheric this is exo-atmospheric kill vehicle.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 11 Feb 2017 18:08

John wrote:
rohiths wrote:That's THAAD level performance and should be sufficient for Pakis. The focus should be to operationalize the Ballistic missile defence to key cities and defence installations.

Thaad from my understanding is endo atmospheric this is exo-atmospheric kill vehicle.


THAAD is designed to do both, and has done both in tests. Its design goal (altitude) is 40/50 km (min) to 150 km(max), and is meant to engage the SRBM (1000km class) through IRBM (up to 4500 km class) threats. I believe through testing they have covered both of those altitude limits and are going through the target set and have so far covered SRBM-MRBM with an IRBM test slated soon.

Also, THAAD is meant to protect troops, bases etc i.e. relatively smaller footprints and provides shoot look shoot opportunities all the way up to 150km and down to lower altitudes with the Patriot as a backup. It is not something that you would best use to protect large cities (large area defense) or population centers (not until the ER version is developed) via exo. intercepts. A correct reference for that role would be the AEGIS Ashore program which because of its exoatmospheric range can protect very large territories across the sub ICBM class missiles minus a large chunk of the SRBMs that the system cannot defeat with SM3s.

See this - http://oi65.tinypic.com/el7fwg.jpg
Last edited by brar_w on 11 Feb 2017 19:12, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Neela » 11 Feb 2017 18:23

Image


✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 22m22 minutes ago
More
#PDV blast-off during today's mission. India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 11 Feb 2017 18:33

Nations currently with ABM capability (top of my head/dev. or fielded) - US, Russia, India, China, Israel, Japan, France?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 11 Feb 2017 18:40

shiv wrote:What if that is not so and Bharat Karnad is simply having a rant? Is there any space for that possibility?


With BK, think wide open spaces.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 11 Feb 2017 18:50

http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

NM statement on THAAD defence systems.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 11 Feb 2017 19:48

A bland Ministry of Defence press release:

Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
11-February-2017 18:28 IST

India Successfully Test Fires Exo-Atmospheric Interceptor Missile

At 0745 hrs today, India successfully conducted a test wherein an incoming ballistic missile target was intercepted by an exo-atmospheric interceptor missile off the Bay of Bengal.

With this commendable scientific achievement, India has crossed an important milestone in building its overall capability towards enhanced security against incoming ballistic missile threats. It has entered an exclusive club of four nations with developing capabilities to secure its skies and cities against hostile threats.

Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar lauded the efforts of the DRDO and all the scientists involved for their dedicated efforts in this significant achievement.

NW/NAo/Ranjan


From here:

Clicky

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Pratyush » 11 Feb 2017 20:11

Karthik S wrote:
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
A new @DRDO_India BMD interceptor sporting an indigenous IIR seeker intercepted a ballistic target at an altitude of 97 km earlier today.


Wow . Proof it quickly and put it in production ASAP.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby AdityaM » 11 Feb 2017 20:36

How is this test different from earlier ones?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bheeshma » 11 Feb 2017 21:25

If you look at the timesnow video it looks like the PDV was launched from a canister (open) unlike the previous ones and PAD.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/83 ... 36/photo/1

Hopefully when deployed , they will have 4-6 missiles per launcher.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Aditya G » 11 Feb 2017 21:31

Neela wrote: India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.


Membership of this exclusive club is only provisional till a system is deployed in IAF service to protect Delhi under a joint tri-service command reporting to CDS.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cybaru » 11 Feb 2017 22:06

Earlier wiki had PAD at maximum 80 km altitude. This new 80-120 km number probably increases the class of missiles it can intercept as well. What's the max theoretical capacity for such a vehicle? arun_s type of analysis?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby RoyG » 11 Feb 2017 22:20

I would say it's good enough for Shaheen, Gauri, M-11's which lack a MRV bus. May explain why they are going for Ababeel to overcome our slowly developing counterforce architecture + missile defence.

If I were Pakistan, I would be sweating. Ababeel will need few years w/ Chinese help to reach a decent production rate. If I were them, use DAHRT to develop high confidence 50-100 kt FBF and develop advance decoys and place them on MRV bus.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby John » 11 Feb 2017 22:55

Thanks brar.

Pakistan is in same boat as Saddam was, threw a lot of money at their ballistic program and now good chunk of their arsenal will be obsolete.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bheeshma » 11 Feb 2017 23:05

Paki missiles and chinese 2-3Km range ones are taken care of by BMD phase-I, but what about the Phase-II? No news about AD-1 and 2 after those DRDO powerpoints way back in 2014-15
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.com/2015_0 ... chive.html.

Is the PDV one stage or two? It looks like two stage due to the difference in color.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 11 Feb 2017 23:17

Tsp can test new chinese designs via north korea or get some proven warheads directly from beijing . Testing is a problem only for india

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudeepj » 11 Feb 2017 23:52

So if these missiles are forward stationed in say, Jaisalmer, Amritsar etc. can they intercept Pak missiles such that the debris falls on Pak land itself?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby RoyG » 12 Feb 2017 00:00

Bheeshma wrote:Paki missiles and chinese 2-3Km range ones are taken care of by BMD phase-I, but what about the Phase-II? No news about AD-1 and 2 after those DRDO powerpoints way back in 2014-15
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.com/2015_0 ... chive.html.

Is the PDV one stage or two? It looks like two stage due to the difference in color.


When BMD phase-I matures and becomes operationalized it is likely that at least some of the incoming missiles can be neutralized. If we are proactive and do first strike it'll lessen the stress. This is why the BMD component is dangerous. It's an enabler for counterforce and decapitation strike.

Just look at the developments:

Gradual refinement in FBF has been taking place making them more destructive and reliable.

Cannisterization of missiles including Agni 1P w/ warheads already mated which will be able to put warhead in low double digits CEP in short notice.

Agni III which can be MIRV enabled, can launched from interior of country to help pulverize urban and military targets.

SSBN force in Arabian Sea w/ K series missiles w/ warheads already mated.

Improved command and control coupled w/ assertive pmo.

Growing relevance of BIMSTEC.

Strategic relationship w/ US, Israel, UAE, Afghanistan, and Iran.

B2 bombers w/ and nuclear bunker busters in Deigo Garcia.

Validation of cold start doctrine through massive border exercises.

Political and societal stresses in Pakistan posing greater danger to Punjabi domination.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I were Pakistan, I would be sweating!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby RoyG » 12 Feb 2017 00:02

sudeepj wrote:So if these missiles are forward stationed in say, Jaisalmer, Amritsar etc. can they intercept Pak missiles such that the debris falls on Pak land itself?


I don't think we have missiles that can do boost phase intercept yet. Maybe in development.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 00:47

This is an upgradation of the initial BMD phase 1 with several new additions. This was facing problems before but now it seems they have overcome it and added new features. Repeatability is what is being next looked for. I will call this BMD phase 1 part 2. I won't be surprised if part 1 which had a pretty good success rate is already deployed to a limited extent but not announced due to US pressure.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby RoyG » 12 Feb 2017 00:58

US pressure? Doesn't make any sense.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kit » 12 Feb 2017 01:04

Three tier BMD defenses with offensive Hypersonic missile / HGV in the form of Shourya / Sagarika will put both China and Pakistan in their places

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 01:27

The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Feb 2017 02:04

So now, how do gurus think this system will be integrated with s400? I'm guessing they wth be used in tandem as a layered strategy for major cities and high value assets.

Most military installations will probably see barak8, akash and spyder layers.

I would think however that the s400 should be used more close to the border and create an nfz of sorts vs tsp thereby seriously hampering their airfarce movements at least during war time.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 02:11

Coverage will depend on how much cash you can spare. Initial plans are to cover capital, major cities e.g. munbai, important military bases, nuclear establishments, etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 12 Feb 2017 09:19

Audio clip of Dr VK Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, talking about the February 11th PDV Exo Atmospheric Interceptor Missile Test by DRDO.

Says that the PDV has a hit to kill capability for tagets in the 80 to 150 km altitude. Also says that the terminal guidance was by a indigenous infra red seeker:

Dr VK Saraswat On The PDV Exo Atmospheric Interceptor Missile Test By DRDO

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 12 Feb 2017 11:22

???

Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.


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