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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 12 Feb 2017 11:25

Pib release

Some of the new special innovative projects undertaken by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) during last three years are:
· Pralay Missile
· Rudra M-II Air to Surface Missile ????
· Supersonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedo (SMART) .... desi asroc ?
· Ku-band Active Radar Seeker .... for astra???
· Stealth Wing Flying Testbed (SWiFT)
· AESA Based Integrated Sensor Suite (ABISS)...fighter ew??
· EM Gun Powered by a Capacitor Bank ???
· Multi-Agent Robotics System (MARS)
· Ku-band TWTA for Aerospace Application
· Submarine Periscope
· Air Independent Propulsion System for Submarine
· AWACS (India),
Radar USHAS

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 12 Feb 2017 11:33

Some useful information on Brahmos and Hypersonic Brahmos from Dr Sudhir Mishra

https://rg.ru/2017/02/11/v-indii-nazval ... ramos.html

In India, revealed some of the secrets of the joint project with Russia for the production of missiles "BrahMos". The first launch of the supersonic missile "BrahMos" from the aircraft Su-30MKI at sea target will take place in the next 1-3 months. And work on the creation of hypersonic missiles, capable of speeds of 4-5 thousand kilometers per hour, it will take 2-3 years. This was told reporters in New Delhi Managing Director of the Russian-Indian joint venture "BrahMos Aerospace" Sudhir Kumar Mishra.

At the armed ground forces and the Indian Navy is currently worth more than hundreds of missiles "BrahMos". Here they, apparently, happy - in comparison with the existing foreign counterparts, "BrahMos" 3 times faster and shoots in 2.5 times more.

However, no country has not established previously as heavy weapons on fighter - weight "BrahMos" on the suspension of Su-30MKI is now almost 2.5 tons. air-launched missile will be easier to land or ship variant with 500 kg, but even such a "weight loss" lets talk about the uniqueness of the project - gunsmiths managed to do so, that the technical characteristics of the Su-30MKI as a result of the retrofit were not injured.

BrahMos" is the first, powerful penetrating warhead (weight up to 250 kg) and an active homing head with a detection range of up to 80 km in the world cruise missile for tactical combat aircraft, combining supersonic speed, long range (up to 300 km) and the scanning sector -45 - +45 degrees. The latter allows you to implement the principle of "fire and forget" - the rocket will automatically find the target.


Testing began in late June last year. These included a series of flights with the weight and dimensional layout missiles, and then reset the rocket itself with a fighter without starting its engine.

"At the moment, the modernized Su-30MKI aircraft flew about 25 hours with a missile" BrahMos "on board. In March, will hold three more tests, after which will be launched at sea, and then ground targets. However, we are now fully confident of a successful outcome launches ", - said Sudhir Kumar Mishra.

At the same time, Russia and India are working on two other projects - a hypersonic missile, which is planned to be 1-2 thousand kilometers per hour faster than supersonic and easy version of "BrahMos", which reduced the weight by almost 1.5 times - up to 1400 kg. According to Sudhir Kumar Mishra, work on them are the Russian machine-building NGOs, the Moscow Aviation Institute and the Indian agency promising military developments DRDO. According to preliminary estimates, the rocket will be set up in two or three years. Previously, general designer and director general of the NGO Engineering Alexander Leonov said that the lighter version of "BrahMos" can be installed on the fifth-generation fighter T-50.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 12 Feb 2017 11:35

So Hypersonic Brahmos will weigh 1400 kg and will be capable of speed of up to 4000-5000 km/hr
Brahmos Seeker Range is 80 km scan angle is +/- 45 degree
So far Brahmos on MKI flew 45 hours , March will have 3 more test and post that test at targets on Sea and Land

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 12 Feb 2017 13:51

No, the hypersonic and the micro brahmos are "two other projects" he talks of. the hypersonic will be certainly fat and wedge heavy as they tend to be.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 12 Feb 2017 15:27

Gyan wrote:We need to make AAD, PDV as a multiple purpose missiles like SM-6. Apart from BMD, they can be used as 400-600km range SAM, and even Anti Ship missile.


Would you like a camel or a horse ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 12 Feb 2017 15:57

As it is the SM6 is a strictly an endoatmoshperic defense system for BMD so not at all comparable.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ashishvikas » 12 Feb 2017 17:07

@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sanjayc » 12 Feb 2017 17:16

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.


Stupid, self-serving logic of Americans. It is like banning the use of bullet proof jackets by cops because these would make criminals fire more bullets at them. The real reason of course is that American are terrified that if India has a working BMD system, Pakistan's nuclear bogey would not have any leverage.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 18:28

Yes

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Yagnasri » 12 Feb 2017 19:28

This is where our economic strength comes into play or creates a weakness. I feel we are at the stage wherein we can politely say sorry for your advice but we have our views on this matter.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby SSridhar » 12 Feb 2017 20:02

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it.

Why are they installing AEGIS & THAAD in South Korea & Japan then?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 20:14

It is good for white man and his interests but bad for SDREs who need "guidance" about how to defend themselves. Reality is that the American establishment still have cold war warriors and they see India from that prism. Besides Pak is still a strategic investment which needs to be defended for them. The arguments about terrorism, Kashmir, nukes, etc regarding India has been moderated but not changed in many sections of American opinion.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Viv S » 12 Feb 2017 20:54

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.

Have you actually read this somewhere or is that your own personal analysis?

NATO offers missile defence cooperation to India
US: We're willing to work with India on missile shield systems
US offers India the Aegis Combat System

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 21:16

As I said "sections" of the American establishment are still cold war warriors and see benefit in Pak. Summary of various readings. Not my own opinion except the brown man part.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 12 Feb 2017 21:16

Singha wrote:???

Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.


Makes you wonder wheres the first variant of the said missile ?

Edit: There are many conflicting reports on this development. Some say its mk2 variant of armed version of Daksh, some mutter about further development of Rudra attack helicopter. Now this talk about second variant of air to surface missile whose first variant is unknown ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 21:42


Karthik S
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karthik S » 12 Feb 2017 21:55



From the article.

10. DRDO started developing the BMD system in 1999, with the help of around 40 public and private companies.


Good to know private companies are participating. The government should groom such companies by acting as angel investor etc, help them recruit talent, invest in R&D etc.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shravanp » 12 Feb 2017 22:05

PDV's truly TFTA looking.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 22:14

Here is a more recent, more mature and evolving view on Indian BMD from the west but you still find old shenanigans. I will not be surprised if most of the Indian names named are connected to the west.

http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06/30 ... -pub-63966

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby suryag » 12 Feb 2017 22:19

Karthik S wrote:


From the article.

10. DRDO started developing the BMD system in 1999, with the help of around 40 public and private companies.


Good to know private companies are participating. The government should groom such companies by acting as angel investor etc, help them recruit talent, invest in R&D etc.


I had the good fortune of working on this program when it was in nascent stages, few of my leads were the best that i have ever met, i owe a lot of what i am today to them and back then my immediate boss with about 12 years experience(Scientist D) was making about 15-18K, namo namah to such great engineers/inspirational leads

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 12 Feb 2017 22:24

This is the Indian view and this is what the West doesn't want.

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/how-ind ... n-pakistan

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prasannasimha » 12 Feb 2017 23:04

Last edited by prasannasimha on 12 Feb 2017 23:05, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 12 Feb 2017 23:05

This looks like target missile. What is the 2nd one ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prasannasimha » 12 Feb 2017 23:06

^ No that is the PDV see the full series of pictures. The target missile was launched from the sea

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby A Deshmukh » 12 Feb 2017 23:15

prasannasimha wrote:See the hit to kill image
https://t.co/8XdB0d40AB

In the last image the PDV is exploding after the target missile has flown away?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prasannasimha » 12 Feb 2017 23:18

No see the contrail of the target versus the contrail of probably a jet(They are at different angles but close if you carefully see it)

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby jamwal » 12 Feb 2017 23:30

Missile in 3rd picture (with exhaust clouds) doesn't seem to have any fins. These don't look like official pictures of this test either.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cain Marko » 12 Feb 2017 23:40

Hmm...does seem a bit strange. the picture raises a question or two in my mind...probably due to my weak eyes

Why is there a jet contrail so high and seemingly beyond the kill explosion. The hit is supposed to have taken place at 97km altitude exo atmosphere, what jet flies that high?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cybaru » 12 Feb 2017 23:44

The contra trail is of the missile itself as it corrects course to target.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby prasannasimha » 12 Feb 2017 23:57

YOu are getting a parallalx error and assuming the wider contrail is the higher one.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudeepj » 13 Feb 2017 00:15

Those pictures are stock and not official. Look at the official PDV pic and this one posted on twitter.. The official doesnt have the jungle camo.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Aditya G » 13 Feb 2017 00:31

Can't recall any picture of a prithvi with a solid fuel. Well at least this SAM version has it!

Neela wrote:Image


✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 22m22 minutes ago
More
#PDV blast-off during today's mission. India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 13 Feb 2017 02:16

Prasanna sir,

Those pictures are not from yesterday. the guy took the pictures from a TOI report. None of those pictures have PDV in them. The first one is of a liquid powered Prithvi missile (PDV is solid fueled), second is that of an AAD, third is an Arrow missile and fourth is the picture of an interception by the Iron dome system.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 03:07

India may have developed its own THAAD-type missile defense system, hints PM Modi
http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

India Successfully Test-Fires Star Wars-Type Interceptor Missile
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-su ... le-1658393

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 03:13

What makes Prithvi missile Interceptor one of the best in the world: Here are 10 reasons
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250431

New milestone for India's Ballistic Missile Defence system: Interceptor missile successfully test-fired
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 094070.cms

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 13 Feb 2017 03:32

finally got rid of the liquid fuel Prithvi engine based on SA-2.

So PDV is single stage ABM missile? And goes to 120 km. i.e. ~400k feet

Great job.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rakesh » 13 Feb 2017 03:45

Rakesh wrote:India may have developed its own THAAD-type missile defense system, hints PM Modi
http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

Why China is up in Arms over the Defensive Missile System, THAAD
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... tem-thaad/

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ranjan.rao » 13 Feb 2017 04:12

was searching how does the detection of BM at long ranges occur because the missiles are way beyond horizon

came across the link below (although it doesnt cover the part i was searching for) but found interesting for noobs like me

http://www.ifpa.org/pdf/FAQ-bmd.pdf

It raises and attempts to answer some basic questions from Uncle Sam's PoV e.g. What is BM Defense, Why do we need it to some medium level questions e.g.
1. Aren’t missile defenses easy to overcome because an enemy can simply build and fire more missiles to “saturate” any defenses?
2. Wouldn’t space-based missile defense weaponize space, which should remain free of weapons?
3. Isn’t missile defense too expensive?
4. Won’t missile defenses provoke a destabilizing arms race?


Pakistan finds a mention as well
"Moreover, Pakistan was at the center of a vast proliferation network that was headed by A.Q. Khan, the architect of the Pakistani nuclear weapon program who later sold nuclear weapon expertise and hardware to terrorist sponsoring countries, including Libya, Iran, and North Korea. There is a legitimate concern that the Khan nuclear network could be revived under certain scenarios, further exacerbating the proliferation of nuclear weapons, technologies, and knowhow"

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby brar_w » 13 Feb 2017 04:19

was searching how does the detection of BM at long ranges occur because the missiles are way beyond horizon


Radar horizon is very very far away for a anti ballistic missile defense sensor. Outside of the very short range missiles you are talking about altitudes in the 100's of km's.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 13 Feb 2017 04:23

ramana wrote:finally got rid of the liquid fuel Prithvi engine based on SA-2.

So PDV is single stage ABM missile? And goes to 120 km. i.e. ~400k feet

Great job.

It is two-staged, both solid. In the latest picture, you can see the two stages distinctly. I think what has also happened in the last test, and missed by all reporters is that in this latest iteration, the lower stage has become all-composite.

Image


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