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Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
LokeshC
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby LokeshC » 14 Mar 2017 22:17

shiv wrote:
LokeshC wrote:Shiv saar. Glide is also a function of velocity. High mach objects can and do glide well above 50 km.

On BRF this post would be classified as "general knowledge"

An object coasting at Mach 3 at 60 km without power cannot glide because of lack of enough atmosphere at 60,000 meters


:mrgreen:

I missed that detail. Ok Mach 3 at 60km is a stone that's falling straight down.

ranjan.rao
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ranjan.rao » 15 Mar 2017 00:32

Austin wrote:Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
https://twitter.com/SJha1618/status/841559410652655617


Here's footage of the Brahmos Block III steep dive mountain attack variant being tested from Car Nicobar.



There seems to be two separate impacts, the first one is small without any fireball and second is a big one with a fireball

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 15 Mar 2017 00:55

Yes two impact but different dates 8 May and 9 May.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 15 Mar 2017 11:05

LokeshC wrote:
shiv wrote:On BRF this post would be classified as "general knowledge"

An object coasting at Mach 3 at 60 km without power cannot glide because of lack of enough atmosphere at 60,000 meters


:mrgreen:

I missed that detail. Ok Mach 3 at 60km is a stone that's falling straight down.


It will not fall straight down due to initial forward inertia, which will not be zero at the pinnacle. It will be fall in a parabolic path and will glide when it encounters atmosphere. So it will be flattish parabolic curve.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 15 Mar 2017 11:06

We need someone like vina or arun vishkarma to plug it in a proper mathematical model.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Prasad » 15 Mar 2017 13:56

MLPGM test GIF from a Lakshya. From AI '17
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8424574976

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 15 Mar 2017 16:37

Prasad wrote:MLPGM test GIF from a Lakshya. From AI '17
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8424574976


MLPGM Details:
BRF post by by Indranil » 12 Jan 2015 21:45

LokeshC
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby LokeshC » 15 Mar 2017 16:42

Gyan wrote:
LokeshC wrote: :mrgreen:

I missed that detail. Ok Mach 3 at 60km is a stone that's falling straight down.


It will not fall straight down due to initial forward inertia, which will not be zero at the pinnacle. It will be fall in a parabolic path and will glide when it encounters atmosphere. So it will be flattish parabolic curve.


I know it won't fall straight down. I should have said the downward acceleration would be close to g.

Sid
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sid » 15 Mar 2017 23:36

srai wrote:
Prasad wrote:MLPGM test GIF from a Lakshya. From AI '17
https://twitter.com/delhidefence/status ... 8424574976


MLPGM Details:
BRF post by by Indranil » 12 Jan 2015 21:45


How can DRDO propose miniaturised MMW seeker for MLPGM but say NAG's diameter/size it not appropriate for it? Does that mean MMW at that size may not able to detect targets at required 7KM ranges.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 16 Mar 2017 01:13

Gyan wrote:We need someone like vina or arun vishkarma to plug it in a proper mathematical model.



Gyan, It needs repeated calculation using excel or computer program.

Basically use the initial conditions, velocity and height.

After that one has to calculate the drag and lift at each increment and subtract the drag effect on the velocity to get new initial conditions for iterating the solution. The lift component will add more range to the body.
You can use standard Cd and Cl coefficients for a long cylinder without loss of generality. usually this is plugged in as table into the calculation.
Manually takes an hour or two.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 17 Mar 2017 10:22

Plans to induct new anti-tank missiles could get delayed
The army may have to wait longer to induct new anti-tank guided missiles (ATGM), as the defence ministry has appointed a committee to examine a Rs 3,200-crore deal that was about to be closed.

An army source told Hindustan Times that a committee, headed by a two-star general, will examine procedural aspects of the deal for Israeli Spike ATGM systems, manufactured by Rafael Advanced Defence Systems Ltd.

While India chose the Israeli ATGM over US defence and aerospace firm Raytheon’s Javelin system three years ago, the deal was delayed as commercial issues needed to be ironed out.

“The deal was ready to be put up for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security. But now we will have to wait for the panel’s report,” the source said on the condition of anonymity .



Low blows in US-Israel missile contract race
According to the complaints that have been filed with the Indian partners Raytheon and Lockheed Martin companies, of Rafael could potentially use unfair methods to hide the shortcomings of anti-tank Spike-LR in the tests, which took place in 2015 at the various Indian sites. Of Rafael, it is believed to be then applied to several members of the evaluation committee missile tests to all costs (primarily financial methods) to convince them to opt for a rocket Spike-LR. This fact may explain the difference in the characteristics obtained in the test report and the final report prepared by the Staff of the Army of India a few months later.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 17 Mar 2017 16:45

Seminar on Brahmos and Astra missile integration on Su-30MKI


- Su-30 can go upto 5G with Brahmos under its belly.
- No change in the Control laws of Su-30 due to Brahmos.

Indranil
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 17 Mar 2017 22:41



The first launcher built in India: the largest in the world.

ramana
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 18 Mar 2017 04:10

So even anti tank missile procurement has lafada.
When will Army realize if they don't buyou DRDO they will be disarmed by their own procedures and rules to prevent corruption. There will be war folks and these khoi hain guys will argue what to buy. And will escape hanging as they retire and write opinion pieces.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rakesh » 19 Mar 2017 04:53

That Astra BVRAAM video slowed down a little more
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/842653382838013952

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Rakesh » 19 Mar 2017 05:10

Enhancing Firepower – BrahMos
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news ... r-brahmos/

By Sqn Ldr Vijainder K Thakur - Former Fighter Pilot with extensive flying experience on IAF Jaguar and HF-24 Marut

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 19 Mar 2017 10:15

With all the new long-range heavy cruise missiles with ranges of 450km-1000km being developed, it makes sense for the IAF/IN to look into a long-range bomber to carry these. The bombers need to be big enough to carry multiple missiles that are 6 meters long and weight 3,000kg.

  • Brahmos -> 450km & 800km
  • Nirbhay -> 1000km
  • LRCM -> 1000km

A squadron of Tu-22MKI comes to mind :twisted:

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2017 22:13

This is big. HSTDV to have first flight by end of this year. They have done a lot of work on the combustor. Very interesting how they have created the test conditions on ground.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2017 23:08

HOW DRDL overcame combustion instability in its dual pulse solid motors. It took them 5-6 years and about 150 full scale rocket firings.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 20 Mar 2017 23:21

And ISRO scramjet project.This is based on hydrogen based fuel.


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 20 Mar 2017 23:36

How is the HSDTV different from hypersonic Brahmos other than range?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 21 Mar 2017 03:31

Origin of design and IP rights.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ramana » 23 Mar 2017 04:22

Indranil or KaranM,
A few questions on Nirbhaya:
- What is the wingspan area?
- What is the turbofan thrust?

Have we compared to Tomahawk in terms of overall weights, turbofan thrust and wing areas?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Indranil » 23 Mar 2017 07:19

It is not the aerodynamics or the structures. They are basically cigars with highly loaded wings. The fuel efficiency of the engines are also nearly the same. Right now they are making the aerostructures out of metal, because they havn't finalized the design. Making the cigar out of composite material is very simple for NAL now. And on doing that, they will probably gain another 10-15% in range.

The true difference is the miniaturization of the electronics. Khans are a good 20 years ahead of us in this. But khan is at state-of-art, we are playing catch up, and this is about electronics. Unlike materials, we can close this gap in 5-10 years, if we put our heart and sole into it. The effect of miniaturization is not just weight reduction of the LRUs themselves, but the structural elements that support them. For example, on Rustom-2 consolidating multiple LRUs into a single one is not reducing the weight of the LRUs themselves, but reducing the weight of the structures needed to support them. All this saved volume and weight directly converts to more fuel. And that can give us anywhere between 50-100% gain in range.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby kurup » 26 Mar 2017 09:56

New Warnings for March 31 / April 1

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.)CHARTS 31 351 352 353 INT71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 31 MAR AND 01 APR 17FROM 0430-0830 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

18-11.47N085-47.16E, 18-40.21N 089-17.82E, 20-18.33N 088-42.27E,18-34.14N085-38.51E

2. CANCEL THIS MSG 010930 UTC APR17

Image

Any idea what the missile will be ??

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Singha » 26 Mar 2017 10:15

Astra or brahmos-a

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sudhan » 26 Mar 2017 13:29

Could be a ship launched bmos-ER..

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby arun » 26 Mar 2017 15:32

kurup wrote:New Warnings for March 31 / April 1


Thanks Kurup for the effort of plotting the exclusion zone and computing the length 8) .

Any idea what the missile will be ??


Concur with Sudhan. My guess is also that it is a test for the ship launched version of the 450 km extended range Brahmos.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby JayS » 28 Mar 2017 01:05

Interesting data point I got from one program (from 2015) on CNBC about TSI which got contract to supply Special Purpose Trailer for Agni-5. One for each missile. Total 48 are on order, to be supplied in 3yrs or so.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby ranjan.rao » 28 Mar 2017 01:31

very interesting statistic. There is little information on the numbers or production rates of agni series. Trailer should put a lower limit on the missile force. Just curious can trailer be airlifted or transported through train?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 28 Mar 2017 01:35

srai wrote:With all the new long-range heavy cruise missiles with ranges of 450km-1000km being developed, it makes sense for the IAF/IN to look into a long-range bomber to carry these. The bombers need to be big enough to carry multiple missiles that are 6 meters long and weight 3,000kg.
...


What is the use scenario? Against whom might we use the TU22?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 28 Mar 2017 02:04

I much prefer the CMCA:
"a single 747 CMCA could launch 72 AGM-86 ALCMs on a single sortie, which is absolutely impressive considering a B-52 can carry up to 20. Satellite data links and other forms of communication could have allowed for the CMCA's missiles to be re-programmed from external sources while the aircraft was already in flight. The "hump" area behind the cockpit that is usually reserved for first class passengers on airline versions of the 747 had enough square footage that limited command and control and network relay functions could be added to the basic CMCA concept. "

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/why-bo ... 1605150371

The Ohio class converted into SSGNs are even better 154 CMs and stealthy too.


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